What's so bad about being codependent?

[Depression = 72% of members]

What's so bad about being codependent (definition)?

I'm coming to terms with my own codependence. The role it played in my childhood, the role it played in my disastrous marriage to N/BPDxh. I've been healing ever so slowly, and it's been changing the dynamics in my family, and has affected how I parent S12. Now I'm in a relationship with someone new, and I'm just working through what it means to be a recovering codependent. Once you have worked on it and acknowledged it, there are codependent tendencies that remain. If you don't lose yourself to it, I'm curious what people here might find bad about being codependent?

[livednlearned]

What's so bad about being codependent (definition)?

I'm coming to terms with my own codependence. The role it played in my childhood, the role it played in my disastrous marriage to N/BPDxh. I've been healing ever so slowly, and it's been changing the dynamics in my family, and has affected how I parent S12. Now I'm in a relationship with someone new, and I'm just working through what it means to be a recovering codependent. Once you have worked on it and acknowledged it, there are codependent tendencies that remain. If you don't lose yourself to it, I'm curious what people here might find bad about being codependent?

[qkslvrgirl]

Congratulations Livenlearned on all that you have accomplished. It's difficult training to 1)recognize the abusive relationship, 2) escape, and 3) continue to be responsible for yourself and a child.

Co-dependence is not "evil" in and of itself; but I believe you will miss the real reward of pure self-discovery, self-love, and self-confidence that is the final product of the road you've travelled so far.

I made a bad mistake when I left my N/PD exh (of 22 yrs) by jumping into another relationship BEFORE I learned to value and love myself. I didn't take the time needed to regain the confidence that my ex had eroded over two decades. So I have spent the last 12 years extricating myself from the tentacles of a BPD relationship.

I now know what my boundaries are and I will not let them be violated without speaking up. I will no longer play small just to appease someone else's anger. I am a free person - and that value matters a lot to me.

My hope for you is that you push on just a tiny bit further and complete your journey before engaging in another downward spiral (like I did). Yes, the initial time in a co-dependent relationship can be ecstatic - but watch out for the reality backlash. Love wisely by being and loving a healthy person.

Quicksliver Girl

[livednlearned]

Congratulations Livenlearned on all that you have accomplished. It's difficult training to 1)recognize the abusive relationship, 2) escape, and 3) continue to be responsible for yourself and a child.

Co-dependence is not "evil" in and of itself; but I believe you will miss the real reward of pure self-discovery, self-love, and self-confidence that is the final product of the road you've travelled so far.

I made a bad mistake when I left my N/PD exh (of 22 yrs) by jumping into another relationship BEFORE I learned to value and love myself. I didn't take the time needed to regain the confidence that my ex had eroded over two decades. So I have spent the last 12 years extricating myself from the tentacles of a BPD relationship.

I now know what my boundaries are and I will not let them be violated without speaking up. I will no longer play small just to appease someone else's anger. I am a free person - and that value matters a lot to me.

My hope for you is that you push on just a tiny bit further and complete your journey before engaging in another downward spiral (like I did). Yes, the initial time in a co-dependent relationship can be ecstatic - but watch out for the reality backlash. Love wisely by being and loving a healthy person.

Quicksliver Girl

I don't feel as though I'm in a downward spiral, is that what you think I'm suggesting? I'm wondering, too, if you are thinking that codependent is the same as BPD?

I spent 2 years on my own after leaving N/BPDx and did a lot of work: reading, individual therapy, group therapy. I felt good about myself, felt assertive, and wasn't looking for anyone. The relationship I'm in found me, and I know that I don't need him to feel happy. It feels healthy.

But I'm thinking that codependent is such a fuzzy thing -- where are the boundaries between healthy and codependent? Once you see that you're predisposed to be codependent, aren't you forever choosing to be healthy? If so, then how would you ever know when to become intimate with someone new, and with whom? Healthy seems like an ongoing process, not a "place" you get to. So what's bad about being codependent? Meaning, what parts of it are bad? When is it bad?

[MaybeSo]

What can you identify as being unhealthy about codepenence from your own experience?

The term CD is meant to describe a manner of relating that is unhealthy because it tends to foster child/infant-like emotional dependencies in otherwise grown adults, eg, it stifles or diminishes individuation necessary for healthy adult relating.

Interdependence is sometimes used to describe a quality of healthy adult relating where two are intimate while still being able to maintain and confirm individuation.

[livednlearned]

What can you identify as being unhealthy about codepenence from your own experience?

The term CD is meant to describe a manner of relating that is unhealthy because it tends to foster child/infant-like emotional dependencies in otherwise grown adults, eg, it stifles or diminishes individuation necessary for healthy adult relating.

I used to put other people's needs ahead of my own, consistently. I often didn't know what my needs were. I preferred not having any needs because it minimized conflict, which I would avoid at all costs. I spent a lot of time trying to fix, heal, and rescue an alcoholic, and focused on appeasing him instead of protecting myself and my child. I was duplicitous with people, often being a chameleon because it meant less conflict, therefore less anger.

That's the worst part of my codependence. I got rid of the alcoholic, and grew a backbone. I became a grown up.

But I still anticipate people's needs. I do things for people even if they haven't asked me too. I sometimes commit to things even though I have very little time to give. I spent more money on my son's birthday present than I wanted to, because I knew how much he would appreciate it. I'm still someone that everyone thinks they can count on, even though that means putting in extra time.

All of those qualities have served me well in my career and friendships.

I think of myself as a healthy codependent. Is that possible?

[seeking balance]

I think of myself as a healthy codependent. Is that possible?

No - not by the true definition.

What is your definition of codependency versus being kind to others in an unconditional capacity?

[doubleAries]

As to the original question (what's so bad about being codependent?) These are my own answers.

The resentment of not being appreciated (for helping others that didn't usually ask for help in the first place or that clearly wanted a hand-out, not a hand-up)

The feeling of being trapped by someone else when actually being trapped by myself, the trap of my own unresolved, circular patterns.

The endless helping, fixing, & overlooking in exchange for assurance from others that I have value and worth, which never works because it's something I need to come to believe myself.

The lying to self that all this "helping" is just because I'm a helping kind of person, and that there are no strings attached to the help, it's just coming from the goodness of my heart (which is a LIE).

The pretense of total acceptance of others--even as I'm "helping" them to become "better"... . an obvious contradiction.

The "fixing" of others that I really need to be doing to/for MYSELF.

The frustrating cycle of confusion between intensity and intimacy (on MY part). Wanting to substitute intensity for intimacy without paying the consequences. Over and over and over, without learning the lesson.

The grotesque self-pity--"after all I've done for you!"

There's plenty more, but that's a pretty good start. NO--it's NOT "healthy".

[catsprt]

Not all mental health professional agree with the label "codependent". Our society is often more preoccupied with "labels" than it is to accept people who are different. There are different skin and hair colors, different levels of self-confidence, and different tastes and preferences. My question would be, do we need more "names" or "professionals" or do we just need to keep an open mind?

Just happy to not be a full blown pwBPD or NPD

[catsprt]

One more thing, I do not believe that it is out of the goodness of my heart (one more label, btw). But since I am alive and my heart is beating... . for the rest, it is just the way I am.

[Cumulus]

It was funny seeing this today as I had been thinking about this idea as well. My amazing long time friend and her husband were visiting for a couple days. Now she has boundaries. 

I have a little kids car that I no longer have use for and they are just getting into the grand parenting so I told them to take the car home with them. My friend and I were heading out for a walk. Her husband was trying to put the toy car into the car. She said, are you having trouble dear, will it fit? Me to the rescue, I go over and start to say did you try this etc., and would probably have gone on to trying to physically help but my friend looked at me, smiled and said, he's an engineer, he will figure it out. Lets go for our walk.

It really stopped me. That is what I tend to do, fix everything for everyone around me. And I had to wonder would her very successful husband have been so successful married to me or would I have diminished his confidence, his drive, and his abilities. Or would he have become lazy and allowed me to manage my life and his as my xBPDh allowed and expected.

I think what I learned from this today is not only am I still not as aware as I need to be about fixing, although I am improving, but if I get into another relationship I will need a partner who will call me out when I try and move in to his territory. Even if it is something as simple as putting a toy into a car.

Someone on this site, I'm sorry I don't remember who it was, recommended a book called, " You Don't Have To Make Everything All Better", it was a great in helping me begin to recognize this behaviour. Obviously still a ways to go.

[mamachelle]

Yes, I've really really dialed back on my co-dependency after reading that book "you don't have to make everything all better" Cumulus 

I have teenagers and when you are trying to fix things and they are honest enough to say "mom! leave me alone." it's like duh... . these kids are going to make mistakes--I can guide them a bit and protect them from danger but I know I have to quash the codep stuff and bite my tongue with the teens because they tune it out... . when I ask them "how do you think you can solve this?" they are listening... . and thinking.

When DH says "it's my deal-- leave me alone--I'm going to fix it" I say okay now instead of feeling hurt... . if he wants help later or wants to discuss he brings it up on his own terms.

When I go on and on about how my co-worker should use my mechanic or should put her kid into this camp-- and then the mechanic fixes the car but screws up the hood latch and her kid likes the camp but mom has problems with a counselor... . it's a big wake up call on the problem with fixing others issues. (true stories)

I've been codep for longer than I've been in recovery for it so to speak-- but since reading that book I've been much happier. Still helping and dependable but understanding my solutions aren't universal solvers and sometimes I do harm along with good a la my mechanic.

That said-- when someone wants my help or advice, I gladly give it-- but I've got a 'help filter' on now... .   and now if appropriate I try to ask them questions to see if they can solve it by themselves.

[MaybeSo]

In terms of labels;

There seems often to be a tendency to equate being a " nice person" with qualities that are considered "codependent."

So much so, that it would seem in encouraging a person to examine and heal from  CD it is sometimes viewed as being told you can't be a nice person anymore.  ?

My question to you is: what's so bad about NOT being codependent?

Is there a belief that by being codependent or behaving in a cd style it means you have cornered the market on "niceness" or are morally superior in your niceness as compared to someone not

codependent?  Why? If we take codependence as stifling growth... . what IS good about that?

Do we assume  a person not used to being CD would in some way lack the ability to be a kind

or supportive person.  ?  How come?

In reality,

The support or kindness offered by a person not operating from a position of (co)dependence  is

generally, by definition,  going to be cleaner, healthier, and devoid of strings or hidden

agendas, and the purpose would be to empower  a person to NOT need them... . and to not be

dependent... . rather then to create or foster further reliance / dependency ... . either emotional or

physical or financial.

Many realize the behaviors they engaged in as a CD felt good to the giver (temporarily) but

really wasn't healthy or productive for anyone... . eg, no one was growing.

A rescuer needs a victim, and a victim needs a rescuer. This dance disempowers both people.

You can be a nice, productive, supportive person and NOT be a (co)dependent person.   CD is

NOT synonymous with 'nice'. In fact, I think it is really important to move toward a place where

whatever good works you do, they are not coming from a codependent arrangement as much as

possible... . with the caveat that we are all humans and we do not achieve perfection. I think the

awareness of what CD really is and self awareness is the most useful tool in this endeavor.

[livednlearned]

It was funny seeing this today as I had been thinking about this idea as well. My amazing long time friend and her husband were visiting for a couple days. Now she has boundaries. 

I have a little kids car that I no longer have use for and they are just getting into the grand parenting so I told them to take the car home with them. My friend and I were heading out for a walk. Her husband was trying to put the toy car into the car. She said, are you having trouble dear, will it fit? Me to the rescue, I go over and start to say did you try this etc., and would probably have gone on to trying to physically help but my friend looked at me, smiled and said, he's an engineer, he will figure it out. Lets go for our walk.

It really stopped me. That is what I tend to do, fix everything for everyone around me. And I had to wonder would her very successful husband have been so successful married to me or would I have diminished his confidence, his drive, and his abilities. Or would he have become lazy and allowed me to manage my life and his as my xBPDh allowed and expected.

I think what I learned from this today is not only am I still not as aware as I need to be about fixing, although I am improving, but if I get into another relationship I will need a partner who will call me out when I try and move in to his territory. Even if it is something as simple as putting a toy into a car.

Someone on this site, I'm sorry I don't remember who it was, recommended a book called, " You Don't Have To Make Everything All Better", it was a great in helping me begin to recognize this behaviour. Obviously still a ways to go.

Thanks for suggesting the book! I'm going to take a look at it. I think that's what I need right now, to focus on the "making everything better" part and understand how it works for me. The guy I'm dating is a super helper, and I recognize it because I'm the same way. What I need to understand is what the costs are when the helping starts to undermine more important things, like autonomy and self confidence.

[livednlearned]

That said-- when someone wants my help or advice, I gladly give it-- but I've got a 'help filter' on now... .   and now if appropriate I try to ask them questions to see if they can solve it by themselves.

I'm going to be thinking about that a lot -- a "help filter." Thank you!

It's strange, when new guy helps me, I sometimes think, "I didn't even have a chance to try." But I never recognized that I was doing that to someone else. It's like I couldn't press pause, and just jumped in all the time.

[livednlearned]

In terms of labels;

There seems often to be a tendency to equate being a " nice person" with qualities that are considered "codependent."

I don't see nice and codependent as being the same thing, although "helping" people in codependent ways can appear nice without being so.

[qkslvrgirl]

MaybeSo: A rescuer needs a victim, and a victim needs a rescuer.

Best concise definition of CD - easy to remember, too.

Thanks!

QSG

[musicfan42]

I feel like the worst thing about codependency is focusing on someone else's issues instead of your own. It's like telling someone that they have a stain on their top when you have a hole in your top... . when you also have a problem that needs to be addressed. However, I do tend to notice that there's a tendency for codependents on this forum to blame themselves for everything, to criticise themselves harshly and to focus on learning coping tools instead of realising that the person is just abusive and that they need to exit the relationship if at all. Coping tools are undoubtedly helpful however ultimately, they're only a quick fix solution-the person still has a personality disorder at the end of the day so dealing with them will most likely continue to be problematic at the very least.

I feel like codependency is really about a lack of identity-of not seeing oneself as whole without being in a relationship with someone you deeply care about. I used to wonder who I was and act like a chameleon in various situations-try to blend in essentially. I feel like codependents may also be drawn to narcissists as narcissists are very dominant characters. The challenge for a codependent is to find their own voice-to stop listening to other people all the time and actually go for what they want themselves. I feel like codependents may be afraid to ask for help as they may feel that they're weak for not being able to deal with an issue themselves. I certainly had this issue in the past however I've successfully overcome it and am now able to speak out whenever I need help so recovery from codependency is definitely possible. I'm still recovering, don't get me wrong-I see it as an addiction really... . that it's just one day at a time but slowly but surely, I'm making progress and that's what counts.

I believe codependency stems from being bullied as a child, presumably by a parent/parental figure i.e. childhood trauma. DBT talks about invalidation however I think that invalidation covers all bases really... . with things like codependency and BPD, the sufferer has probably been bullied... . grown up in an abusive situation. I was reading this psychologist talking about bullying and saying how he was dealing with a man who had been bullied and that this man was suicidal because of it. Bullying can have a detrimental short term and long term impact on someone's self-esteem. Codependency is not someone's personality at all-it's just the victim's attempts to placate the bully and they assume that everyone else is like the bully so they're essentially conditioned to behave in this manner in their every day lives. I feel it's akin to brainwashing and that the main thing is for anyone with codependency to be de-brainwashed... . to wake up and smell the coffee.

I notice that a lot of people here sympathise with their borderline partner instead of trying to protect themselves from the borderline's raging. I find that people may focus on secondary issues such as childhood abuse instead of concentrating on the primary issue-the borderline's dysfunctional behaviour. It's like if your house was on fire and you asked "why did the house go on fire? maybe I'll try to put it out myself" instead of trying to exit the building and run to safety. Fire brigades always tell you never to try to put out a fire yourself-to leave it to the professionals and the same idea applies here

I feel like codependents may also be religious as religion has a lot of dogma about moral duty-about helping other people etc. I don't want to get into a religious debate here however basically, I think that some of the religious dogma is impractical. A codependent does not need to be a "good Samaritan"-it's actually not our duty to take care of other people realistically.

I think that it's better to look at statistics-to actually analyse how many borderlines really recover in this instance. There is very little evidence to indicate that borderlines have a complete recovery. They may become higher functioning through therapy however issues with self-esteem and relationships tend to persist. With things like alcoholism, the recovery rate is 5%... . that's what you're dealing with in reality... . a very low recovery rate. I think codependents often have wishful thinking instead of realising that they're dealing with an extremely challenging diagnosis and not to underestimate this reality. DBT actually has a section on accepting reality for borderlines and honestly, I think this section is applicable for codependency too. For example, I can use a lot of avoidance behaviours such as procrastination instead of dealing with the problem there and then but that means that the problem only builds and gets worse over time. I think that avoidance behaviours are common in codependency-sort of a "bury your head in the sand" tactic.

I think that codependents can be naive-that they have a lot of moral codes, ethics etc however not realising that other people may not... . that there are unscrupulous people out there and that they need to look after themselves first and foremost.

There was a thread recently about someone wants revenge on their exBPD girlfriend-I don't think revenge is the answer with regard to dealing with a pwBPD however neither do I think forgiveness is the answer. I feel like forgiving someone is essentially giving them another chance to do the same thing again. I don't think stewing in anger and bitterness is a good idea in the long run however I do think it's advisable to have no contact/as little contact with a borderline as possible and just move on. I feel like moving on and the phrase "living well is the best revenge" is really the preferable way to deal with the situation-that you can't undo the past but that you can be happy again despite having experienced emotional pain as a result of a relationship with a person with BPD.

[livednlearned]

I feel like the worst thing about codependency is focusing on someone else's issues instead of your own. It's like telling someone that they have a stain on their top when you have a hole in your top... . when you also have a problem that needs to be addressed.

That is one of the best analogies for what I'm trying to work through. Thank you -- I can be easily bamboozled by the act, not seeing the other stuff. For example, I can easily be grateful that the person pointed out I had a stain, and wouldn't let it register that they had a big hole. But my tendency as a codependent was (to some extent still is) to not point out someone else's stain because I felt "less than" for having a hole in my shirt.

I feel like codependency is really about a lack of identity-of not seeing oneself as whole without being in a relationship with someone you deeply care about. I used to wonder who I was and act like a chameleon in various situations-try to blend in essentially. I feel like codependents may also be drawn to narcissists as narcissists are very dominant characters. The challenge for a codependent is to find their own voice-to stop listening to other people all the time and actually go for what they want themselves. I feel like codependents may be afraid to ask for help as they may feel that they're weak for not being able to deal with an issue themselves. I certainly had this issue in the past however I've successfully overcome it and am now able to speak out whenever I need help so recovery from codependency is definitely possible. I'm still recovering, don't get me wrong-I see it as an addiction really... . that it's just one day at a time but slowly but surely, I'm making progress and that's what counts.

Also very useful. All of this describes behavior I have had, and behavior I continue to struggle with, tho less so these days. Definitely it is much harder in intimate relationships than with, say, coworkers or colleagues, to practice healthy behaviors like asking for help, and speaking out.

I believe codependency stems from being bullied as a child, presumably by a parent/parental figure i.e. childhood trauma. DBT talks about invalidation however I think that invalidation covers all bases really... . with things like codependency and BPD, the sufferer has probably been bullied... . grown up in an abusive situation. I was reading this psychologist talking about bullying and saying how he was dealing with a man who had been bullied and that this man was suicidal because of it. Bullying can have a detrimental short term and long term impact on someone's self-esteem. Codependency is not someone's personality at all-it's just the victim's attempts to placate the bully and they assume that everyone else is like the bully so they're essentially conditioned to behave in this manner in their every day lives. I feel it's akin to brainwashing and that the main thing is for anyone with codependency to be de-brainwashed... . to wake up and smell the coffee.

I hadn't thought of it this way before, about being conditioned, and also de-conditioning in response to bullying. I do think of codependency as a spiritual condition, meaning it isn't who you are per se, it's not your personality as you mentioned... . but it's also harder to identify than an alcoholic because getting rid of an abusive relationship is only half the battle. It was one of the hardest things I've done, to leave N/BPDxh, but in many ways the harder work only started once I was free of the relationship. Trying to move beyond, and work through these issues, has been tricky, so I appreciate you clarifying a lot of things I had been trying to articulate. Makes the healing work more concrete.

I have this vague sense that I'm doing so well, but at the same time, I don't always see the path ahead so clearly. Thanks for chiming in.

[doubleAries]

Here's a really interesting video I came across just today that talks about codependency, counter dependency, and Dependent Personality Disorder www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4P05S2QtwQ

one of the worst things to me about codependency is the hooking up with dysfunctional people (as pointed out above, the rescuers and victims--which leaves out the Karpman triangle point of "perpetrators" as a distraction from our need to work on our own issues.

[babyducks]

What's so bad about being codependent?

Literally, when I am being codependent I will put everyone but myself first and run myself into the ground physically to care for some one else.

Everyone is somewhere on the spectrum.  I am a fixer and a caretaker and giver by nature and training.  Even more I like those things about me.   At least right now.   The trick is how to keep being a helper without giving myself away.  That's the slippery slope for me.   

[Vindi]

codependency only sucks you into other peoples issues, enabling and what not.

Focus should be on yourself, on your own life and wants and needs, and not holding you back from doing things that you want to do instead of rescuing others.

I am just typing "out loud"... . yes, i too have coda issues, but so badly want to stop

rescuing, I am getting better!

Instead of being codependent, be more independent!

[sheepdog]

MusicFan 42 - WOW!  Your whole post made so much sense!  Are you codependent or a recovering codependent because it seems like you've got it figured out.  Thank you for your post!

For me, the worst thing about being codependent is always feelings like a feather being tossed in the wind and taking slights (which may not even be slights) so very, very personally and then letting them affect my day or how I feel about MYSELF.

I really need help with this.

[livednlearned]

Rose Tiger suggested The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists to me in another post, and I've been reading it. Sometimes I feel so far ahead in my healing, and then I read a book like that and it opens up all the heartache and pain, and I feel so humbled. I'm just starting to understand the worst of what I did in my marriage to N/BPDx. Or maybe the better way to say it is the worst defensive ways my codependent defense mechanisms kept me from feeling fully.

I can look back now and see that I was narcissistic too -- not in the same way N/BPDx was. I would see people refer to themselves here on the boards as being narcissistic and thought it seemed like a codependent person taking all the responsibility, like it wasn't healthy. But I think I see now that at the peak of dysfunction, I had narcissistic traits too.

It's hard to admit that.

I guess that's my own answer to what's so bad about being codependent. Having or being a false self.

[musicfan42]

MusicFan 42 - WOW!  Your whole post made so much sense!  Are you codependent or a recovering codependent because it seems like you've got it figured out.  Thank you for your post!

For me, the worst thing about being codependent is always feelings like a feather being tossed in the wind and taking slights (which may not even be slights) so very, very personally and then letting them affect my day or how I feel about MYSELF.

I really need help with this.

sheepdog-Wow, thank you for the compliment sheepdog

I feel like your description of the feather being tossed in the wind is a perfect illustration of codependency. I can relate to it-of feeling inconsequential, small, vulnerable, worthless... . feeling at the mercy of the elements (the wind is a great metaphor for the environment that we may find ourselves in)... . to not feeling in control of my own life. When people liked me, I liked myself whereas when people dislike me, I disliked myself too. It was almost as if I had lost my sense of self. It makes me sad to think about it but at the same time, I've made progress and I'm recovering my sense of self.

I don't think codependency vanishes all of a sudden however I do think that recovery is possible-you can manage it. I don't feel like I have it all figured out-who has? There's things that I still struggle with however I have found helpful coping tools. I like the 12 step group, Al-Anon. I also like CBT, DBT and assertiveness training. There are helpful threads on the workshops section of this website on coping tools.


livedandlearned-I meant to reply to your other post... . it's funny that you say that you didn't react to someone pointing your flaws because before, anytime that someone pointed out my flaws, I felt extremely defensive! I felt "less than" for having flaws but at the same time, I still nagged people a lot to change-I'd constantly tell them what they should be doing and it was only through Al-Anon that I learned to "live and let live"! I agree with you that romantic relationships are much harder than friendships and relationships with co-workers-they're of a more intimate nature so it's only natural that they'd be more challenging.

I feel like friendships and relationships with co-workers have firmer boundaries... . with friends and co-workers, you meet them in a general context so your interactions revolve around that whereas if you actually fall in love with someone, it can feel easy to lose your balance... . it's like you have to consciously set down boundaries to keep you steady and stabilise you really. It makes sense that you say that you found the real healing work began after you left the relationship. I too felt numb when I was around the borderline person in my life and it was only after I had gone that I felt safe to finally deal with my emotions in any form at all. I think it's normal to feel a bit lost at times-to not always know the way forward. I think at times like that, it's okay to ask for help-to seek support from others... . that's definitely been my approach to it anyways.

[an0ught]

[... . ]

But I still anticipate people's needs. I do things for people even if they haven't asked me too. I sometimes commit to things even though I have very little time to give. I spent more money on my son's birthday present than I wanted to, because I knew how much he would appreciate it. I'm still someone that everyone thinks they can count on, even though that means putting in extra time.

All of those qualities have served me well in my career and friendships.

I think of myself as a healthy codependent. Is that possible?

This week the German magazine ":)er Spiegel"¹ had 2 articles on empathy, emotional transfer and mirror neurons. The scientist they interviewed explained that there are neuronal mechanisms that make us feel what others feel just by observing others. Our brain can anticipate the feelings others go through. We feel pain when the baby cries. There is a spectrum of how strongly we feel what others are feeling. Some may feel little and others may feel it a lot. Transfer of emotions and acting on them lets us act faster a a group. It has a function in keeping the society together. We don't have a choice to switch the transfer off - and if we had we would have a key enabler for becoming a sociopath.

I guess this means we more empathic ones only have a choice to choose what we do when we feel something that is not us. We have not much a choice about experiencing the pain others suffer  :'( or feeling their joy   . We may have some choice in to what degree we expose ourself to others. We can learn to process received emotions in a more conscious manner if time permits. I guess boundaries are critical in both - managing exposure and limiting our actions based on transfered emotions.

For me I'm working on creating more space for my emotions, which so easily get drowned by the perceived needs of others. And I start realizing how afraid I am of them. I guess having a stronger framework of own strong healthy independent emotions would go a long way balancing the foreign invasion.

¹Note: ":)er Spiegel" is comparable to NYT but not a scientific magazine.

[Suzn]

This is the best list of characteristics and patterns I've come across, it's from Codependents Anonymous. There are degrees of severity in codependency just as there would be in any disorder or addiction. Codependent's recovery is almost verbatim to that of an alcoholic. For me, this list helps to identify my own patterns, why codependency is so unhealthy in my life and where I can work to become more interdependent. These patterns and characteristics are offered as a tool to aid in self-evaluation by CoDa.

Denial Patterns:

I have difficulty identifying what I am feeling.

I minimize, alter, or deny how I truly feel.

I perceive myself as completely unselfish and dedicated to the well-being of others.

I lack empathy for the feelings and needs of others.

I label others with my negative traits.

I can take care of myself without any help from others.

I mask my pain in various ways such as anger, humor, or isolation.

I express negativity or aggression in indirect and passive ways.

I do not recognize the unavailability of those people to whom I am attracted.

Low Self Esteem Patterns:

I have difficulty making decisions.

I judge what I think, say, or do harshly, as never good enough.

I am embarrassed to receive recognition, praise, or gifts.

I value others’ approval of my thinking, feelings, and behavior over my own.

I do not perceive myself as a lovable or worthwhile person.

I constantly seek recognition that I think I deserve.

I have difficulty admitting that I made a mistake.

I need to appear to be right in the eyes of others and will even lie to look good.

I am unable to ask others to meet my needs or desires.

I perceive myself as superior to others.

I look to others to provide my sense of safety.

I have difficulty getting started, meeting deadlines, and completing projects.

I have trouble setting healthy priorities.

Compliance Patterns:

I am extremely loyal, remaining in harmful situations too long.

I compromise my own values and integrity to avoid rejection or anger.

I put aside my own interests in order to do what others want.

I am hypervigilant regarding the feelings of others and take on those feelings.

I am afraid to express my beliefs, opinions, and feelings when they differ from those of others.

I accept sexual attention when I want love.

I make decisions without regard to the consequences.

I give up my truth to gain the approval of others or to avoid change.

Control Patterns:

I believe most people are incapable of taking care of themselves.

I attempt to convince others what to think, do, or feel.

I freely offer advice and direction to others without being asked.

I become resentful when others decline my help or reject my advice.

I lavish gifts and favors on those I want to influence.

I use sexual attention to gain approval and acceptance.

I have to be needed in order to have a relationship with others.

I demand that my needs be met by others.

I use charm and charisma to convince others of my capacity to be caring and compassionate.

I use blame and shame to emotionally exploit others.

I refuse to cooperate, compromise, or negotiate.

I adopt an attitude of indifference, helplessness, authority, or rage to manipulate outcomes.

I use terms of recovery in an attempt to control the behavior of others.

I pretend to agree with others to get what I want.

Avoidance Patterns:

I act in ways that invite others to reject, shame, or express anger toward me.

I judge harshly what others think, say, or do.

I avoid emotional, physical, or sexual intimacy as a means of maintaining distance.

I allow my addictions to people, places, and things to distract me from achieving intimacy in relationships.

I use indirect and evasive communication to avoid conflict or confrontation.

I diminish my capacity to have healthy relationships by declining to use all the tools of recovery.

I suppress my feelings or needs to avoid feeling vulnerable.

I pull people toward me, but when they get close, I push them away.

I refuse to give up my self-will to avoid surrendering to a power that is greater than myself.

I believe displays of emotion are a sign of weakness.

I withhold expressions of appreciation.

[doubleAries]

well thanks, suzn--I'll be cutting and pasting that into an email to put in my inbox!

[Clearmind]

What's so bad about being codependent? My co-dependent tendencies lead me here to bpdfamily and I was in no fit state during that time - I was a shattered mess - so no positives that I can see from my co-dependent tendencies.