Why do BPD Daughter's hate mothers so much

[FaithfulHope]

Hi Vivek ,

Oh yes, you are so right.  We do have to work on ourselves in order to help our relationships with our special children.   And having the right supports (ie: this group) is key!   I hope one day to get my husband to join also.   He works long hours at a stressful job and I worry about the toll it has taken on him having to come home all these years and learn the latest about our daughter.   He is not at the same place I am with his feelings about her condition but I think he is getting there.   I think he wants to believe that with time she will mature and these behaviors will cease.  I think with time he is learning that her diagnosed condition is right.   I guess I don't blame him.   First of all he only got to see the kids a small fraction of the time compared to me as a full time mom.   Secondly she is his only daughter and therefore it is his nature to see her as an angel.   But with time he is starting to see the reality of the situation and luckily he and I have always been on the same page in how we have dealt with her behaviors.   My hope is that one day he, too, will feel the support of this group so that he can finally open up some of the emotions he has held in private for far too long.   

Have a great day!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[VeryFree]

My stbBPDxw hasn't spoken to her mother in ten years. She blames her mother for ruïning her youth.

Hearing the stories my stbx has told me, I did understand.

I didn't understand why she let her father of the hook: he neither was there for her, he let her mother ruïn her life, he never acknowledge his daugthers needs and even now he still denies her problems.

Strangely enough my stbx thinks her mother is Evil, while her father is Holy.

[angeldust1]

I really think it's because we are mothers,  (and in case you didn't know,  it is not exclusive to daughters.)  Mothers love unconditionally,  without reservation and that's for life.  This child grew within us,  how can we stop loving part of ourselves.  Dads on the other hand,  I believe possess,  an ability to "turn things off" when they do not like what is going on.  They either deny or just go on as if it were no big deal.  We tend to rationalize,  placate, and just plain try to hard to "get them to love us".  Dad just doesn't care as much.  They care,  but they seem to be able to deal with it better and the child knows that.  No matter the age.

[peaceplease]

I think it is that they know we love them "unconditionally".   

My ex has been estranged from my dd for about 7 years.  And, prior to that, he was not involved much in my kids lives.

I am blamed for marrying my dh.  I started seeing him when she was in 6th grade.  I married him when she was in the 9th grade.   She says that she always hated him.  But, there were times that she has expressed love for him.  And, my dh is moody with her, too.  So, although, he loves her, she hates him most of the time.  Loves him some of the time.  She told me that she would never marry any man that my gs did not like.

And, she always says that I don't deserve to have two screwed up kids.  My ds has issues, too.  I suspect that he is more NPD.  My ex appeared to be NPD.  And, now that I am aware of BPD, I can see my exes family with BPD and NPD.  My exMIL with BPD, my exh with NPD.  Although, my former therapist told me that BPD manifest differently in males, and believes that my dd inherited the gene from her dad.  She saw my dd and said that her thoughts were that she strongly suspected BPD, and it sounded like my ex had it, too.

My dd was calling me a saint on Fb and said that I did more than the average grandma.  A few days later, she was complaining on FB about not being able to pick your family.  She was referring to me.  And, last night she sent me text, saying that my gs paternal grandmother is more of a grandmother than I am.  Wow, that floored me!  She never has much good to say about her.  I know that my dd feels abandoned now.  I am busy taking care of my mother with dementia, so I don't cater to my dd as I used to. My dd is jealous of my attention to my mother.  My mother is my priority now, and my dd does not like taking a back seat.

It does seem that us mothers get the brunt of it!

[Memom]

New to the site, and it is so comforting to read this particular thread. I'm not good at the abbreviations yet, so bare with me. My d16 got out of rehab a month ago. Her addiction problem was addressed wonderfully, but the BPD not at all. And since so much of her anger/insecurity/hate is directed at me, most people don't see it. Just the family. There is nothing I can do that is right to her. According to her I don't support her. Even though I take her NA every night and therapy sessions once or twice a week. I'm a single mother with 2 other kids who get NONE of my attention. It has been this way since she was born. My oldest has decided he can't live in the house with her anymore and is moving out. Naturally this breaks my heart. But I don't know what to do to control the blow ups. I'd leave to, if I wasn't "mom".

As in similar posts, dad, who is hardly ever around, walks on water. He is defended until I just want to scream. But I do all the things I think I'm suppose to do. Just to keep the peace. When inside I am honestly starting to hate this disease. And I have to remind myself it is the disease that I hate, not my daughter.

This thread has been very helpful. I had a rough evening with her. Tell me who is crazier here, her or me? She wanted to go to a baseball game, but her friend couldn't afford it. She wanted me to pay. I told her to clean up the kitchen and I would pay. She tells me it is too overwhelming she just can't do it. Okay, I'll help. I go in to help and she leaves. I try to call her back to finish the job and she just totally loses it. Punching the wall, crying, gasping for air. Yelling at me that I don't even care about her. What?

So she goes to her room, screaming in her pillow. I go in and sit on the bed. She eventually calms down. I can't touch her... . she won't stand for that, when what I really want to do is hold her and rock her. She pulls herself together and I take her to the ball game. I feel guilty for rewarding such childish behaviour (and my boys completely don't understand how she gets away with it). But the peace and quiet we have while she is gone is worth it to me. Am I nuts? The idea of telling her no and dealing with the melt down was just too overwhelming for me to handle. This disease just sucks.

I'm so glad I found you guys... . Tears are flowing as I type this, but it's the first time I think I'm with people who understand. Just thanks.

[qcarolr]

Our children with BPD have immense and unbearable psychic pain. Their lives are a confused mess and they often don't achieve their goals as adults.

We were supposed to teach them how to be adults and how to get on. We were supposed to guide them through the maze of adolescence. They weren't supposed to be living a messed up life of pain. Why didn't we fix it up? Why didn't we prepare them properly? Why can't we ease their pain?

Well, wouldn't you be angry?

Maybe, if I had known about BPD when DD27 was a teen, I could have changed my perspective in coping with her -- have been more 'there' for her in a way that she could feel it, see it, believe it. DD has told me how I destroyed her life by being such a horrible parent, and that she is watching me do the same as I try to be the parent for gd8. This is a double whammy of guilt for me. Tears me apart. WOW - the  that I have been trying to scrap off.

Then I stop to see that DD has shown me more appreciation in the past 6 months than in the previous 6 years. Yes, there are still meltdowns - and I am still there with her. The difference, IMHO, is that I do have some protective boudnaries now that I did not have before. I know when to walk away, hang up the phone or not even answer the phone (like in the middle of the night when I would say "no, i am not coming to get you since you missed the last bus home" anyway), when to pull over as ask her to leave the car or be silent the rest of the way to wherever we are going - or I will ask someone else to remove her from my car (and I have had to do this). Or I leave the house when she refuses to go. It has been so hard to persevere through the down cycles with her.

[Well, have to give some credit to the recent exbf for pressing harrassment charges against DD. This gives her another target for her emotional distress. Even though she claims she is innocent, she is also sharing more and more details about how she is not so innocent -- yes she did do the things that are in the police reports. And she has been shunned by many other friends that side with exbf. She is unable to blame me for any of this.  I am so so so glad I stayed out of all this. In the past - not su much - I was enmeshed in so many of her bf r/s issues.]

The payoff is that she gets over it and actually apologizes to me for her behavior - this means to me that she is starting to at least be aware that she has some of the responsibility for our interaction.

What of this is her changing, how much is my changing -- some of both is my guess. It is like tonight when I did go pick her up from town - she was vomiting with a migraine in my car after being gone past 2 nights - I offered to take her to the clinic - she yelled at me for pushing her to see a doctor, to sit in a waiting room, I really don't care... .   I held up my hand and quietly said "Look, I am here! I am here!"  And she stopped. We drove straight home.

It was recently suggested to me that you can't raise with someone with BPD unscathed. We are affected by it. Our responses are not likely to be helpful when we are pushed. We act as if we are dealing with a 'normal' child, but we have a special child with special needs. We are not snowy white at all. We assuredly have    (well, I know I do  )

If we want to change our behaviour, we have to change our thinking. In order to change our thinking, it may help to see where we are thinking in an unhelpful way... . are we self righteous, arrogant, self entitled, judgemental, negative etc? It is unlikely we would say yes to any of these, so it may help to investigate the things we say and do that underlie our thoughts. If we work at being better mums, then we can better help our relationship with our 'children'. And that's what we want isn't it? A better relationship with our children?

And this work on myself is HARD. It is IMPERFECT. It is INCONSISTENT. I forget that it is a PRACTICE. It is a daily, ongoing practice of self-awareness and mindfulness about all of the above Vivek  listed. Learning to say YES, I do have all this twisted thinking. Now, how can I untwist it? Remember to myself - I am a good person, loving woman (mom, grandma, wife, etc.) and intelligent enough to figure this out over and over and over. Same formula: self-care, remember what is important to me (values) and my family, what are my boundaries to protect these values, can I be validating of her feelings right now - how do I need to do this, or do I need to preserve some physical and emotional distance for a bit to become more sincere, back to self-care.

And as I change myself, low and behold - DD is slowly changing too even without much professional help.

I think it is that they know we love them "unconditionally".   

For me, this only works out if I am taking good care of my own needs. This is when I can be sincere in expressing this love for her - either directly or indirectly. If I am distressed, resentful, angry etc. then this mother-love is hidden in the r/s.

My dd was calling me a saint on Fb and said that I did more than the average grandma.  A few days later, she was complaining on FB about not being able to pick your family.  She was referring to me.  And, last night she sent me text, saying that my gs paternal grandmother is more of a grandmother than I am.  Wow, that floored me!  She never has much good to say about her.  I know that my dd feels abandoned now.  I am busy taking care of my mother with dementia, so I don't cater to my dd as I used to. My dd is jealous of my attention to my mother.  My mother is my priority now, and my dd does not like taking a back seat.

I get this most from DD27 when I am giving care to my gd8. Only in the past few months has DD been able to express to me her fears that gd will grow up to be as messed up she is. And DD can only see that I am the one to prevent this since it is 'my fault' that DD is so messed up (BPD thinking, huh). DD has such a hard time seeing that gd is very very different person in so many ways. I do believe some of gd's behavior issues are from seeing the ineffective actions between dh/me and DD. This is compounded by her ADHD -- changed her med schedule to get help in evening and see more cooperation with gd. I have been doing way too much yelling lately even when DD is out of the house. Need to get on track with taking care of my needs - giving back responsibilites that do not belong to me with everyone (dh, dd, gd, co-workers). Gotta get out of my rescuer mode.

This got way too long  I have been silently following this thread - guess feel it was time to reply. Hang in there mom's -- we are all in this together and for the duration.

qcr    

[LynnieRe]

I'm getting that too.  Of course, my DD is the daughter of a BPD.  I am the triangle between the two. 

Recently, I sat in on a "family meeting" that ended up involving roasting me on a spit. 

She accused me of all kinds of abuse and manipulation toward her and her father.  Controlling her life, saying horrible things to her, beating her etc.  He, of course, took the bait.  The family meeting became a dual shouting match.  Her saying things, him yelling at me for doing the things she accused me of, and her yelling at him because he's mean to me. 

Today, I told her that no matter what she told the T, who's known her 2 weeks, and no matter what she accuses him or me of, I'm her parent and she will participate in family events including her father and brothers.  She trashed my house.  My position never changed.  She eventually stopped and talked to me more rationally. 

She may emancipate at age 18, and she can then do what she wants.  I will not get tied to her moods and drama anymore. 

 

[vivekananda]

I recall watching this video some time ago and was again reminded of it. It only goes for 8.15 mins and is spoken by a recovered woman who had BPD. She is inspiring. She explains why love is not enough:

Love is not enough

it made me cry.

To the newbies here     it's good to see you. Have you started your own post to introduce yourselves to us yet? You could give us a brief intro to your story and your concerns and if you asked a question, there'd be an avalanche of good people here wanting to help you 

cheers,

Vivek    

[FaithfulHope]

Vivek ,

Just wondering if you know... . How did they teach her how to live?   She must have wanted change.   Who worked with her and what did they do?

So far with my DD everytime we rescue her and get her on the right path she chooses to derail her progress and go right back to her old behaviors.  She seems to choose living with chaos and poverty over making something of her life.  But she is fully capable of creating a stable life.   

I am curious how this woman was able to rise up out of the chaos.   Do you know?  Thanks for sharing!

[vivekananda]

The short answer is no, sorry, I don't. I think the path to recovery is different for everyone. I don't think anyone who has recovered has ever been 'rescued' by a parent   I don't think it's something that we can do. Our own BPD path is different. We can be supportive and stop being a negative influence, if our children are under 18 and in our care, we can do more, of course. ... . but that's not our own situation.

So, a few bits of info might help.

Karpman Triangle

This explains why the role of rescuer is so unhelpful. Understanding who we are is central to our task of changing ourselves.

Australian Clinical Practice Guideline for the Management of Borderline Personality Disorder (2012)

On page 55 there is a table which shows the effectiveness of various treatments as indicate by a meta analysis study of the research. (if you don't understand what that means, ask, ok?). The most effective treatment, historically, is Dialectical Behaviour Treatment but there are other forms of treatment that are successful, they appear on the table. Now there is Neurofeedback, which is not psychology based but neurology based. The evidence for neurofeedback is anecdotal, but very powerfully persuasive. Thing is, neurofeedback is too new for the evidence to be there.

If the pwBPD doesn't want to be in treatment, if they don't believe they have anything wrong with them. Nothing will work. They need to accept the treatment. On page 56 of the Guidelines there are 6 features of successful therapy - no matter which of the forms/types of treatment are used.

I recently read The Buddha and the Borderline by Keira Van Gelder. It is the story of her recovery as an adult and she explains it beautifully. She is on UTube if you want to look. Here we have our own current success story with Rapt Reader whose adult son is doing neurofeedback. Our own lbjnltx has a daughter who is now about 16 and two years into recovery, her story can also be found here.

The best way to understand a bit about the treatment and why it is such a challenging thing, is to try it for ourselves. Are you up for the challenge? 

cheers,

Vivek      

[FaithfulHope]

Thanks Vivek ,

I am always up the the challenge... . sadly my dd isn't.  When she was first diagnosed with BPD and in therapy her therapist tried to work with her on DBT.   But like you said the patient has to want the treatment and has to work at it.  My dd never works at anything except drama.   But I can pray that one day that will change.   

I am curious about the new treatment... . neurofeedback.  I will investigate for my own knowledge.   

I think its probably best to start these treatments at a young age.  I think these behaviors get ingrained in people as they age.  Just my own opinion.   

Vivek  you have the most wonderful info to share.  Thank you so much!   I have been spending so much of my days just reading reading reading on this site.   I had read other books over the years but this site has so much to offer!

I have a question for you... . when my dd was young, her only issue was chronic lying.   (Well, that and my concern that she had no conscience because of her lack of emotion and empathy over friendships).  But her lying was a huge issue from early on.  I never could find a book about children lying that could help me understand what I was dealing with.   I talked to her teachers, to the school administrators, to other parents, and to her pediatrician and everyone always said 'Oh don't worry, she will snap out of it'.   

I wished I had some book to help me understand what I was dealing with because I knew something was very wrong but I couldn't find anything to help me understand it.   

Do you know of any book I missed that could have helped me back then?   Mind you, she had no other behavior issues back then.  She always had a sweet disposition... . no anger or rage back then.  Her teachers always said she was a pleasure to have in class... . even though she never did her work!   I now think her charming ways was her way to manipulate her way to get out of work.   She is a con artist.   It's funny... . her teachers all liked her but knew she was capable of better work if she put forth more effort which she never did.   

So, I am just wondering if there is some book out there that would have shed some light on what I was dealing with.

Thanks!   

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[vivekananda]

No, I don't know of any book to help us understand back then.

For me I understand lying has a simple explanation but is a tad complex.

Simply, lying works. It gets a person what they want. Someone with BPD will lie for a number of reasons. An important one is to shift blame off oneself. Pw BPD feel this enormous irrational shame, so if that can be eased with a lie, then so be it. Lying can help you avoid responsibility. If responsibility overwhelms me and lying eases that burden, then so be it. Then lying in the form of exaggeration and such like might get me some sympathy and warm fuzzies that make me feel good. So, that's a good reason to lie. I might think that I am not heard or not listened to (and that is such a truth for pw BPD), so some exaggeration or distortion of the truth works to get attention.

Overtime, it becomes a legitimately rationalised way of responding and it becomes a belief for the pw BPD, it is true to them.

Now, I don't think I lie at all, but experts tell me that everyone of us does and we do it to keep the social wheels moving. So usually it is what we would call white lies. Even the simple "how are you?" "fine thanks" can often be a lie. So it seems that lying is an everyday event. However the sort of lying we see is different.

My dd tended to lie to avoid responsibility eg when she knew she had done something I disapproved of, she would lie to get out of trouble. And this was more likely to have occurred in early adolescence - those critical years in brain development.

What we need to learn is to stop being judgemental. As parents of adult children, we have had our chance to raise our kids, to teach them. Now that they are adults, we need to learn to support who they are. We don't have to like their situation, but if we are judgemental, it impedes our capacity to support them.

So it helps for us to process our thoughts, eg about lying, but then move beyond that to acceptance of who they are. We never have to agree with what they purport, but we have to accept them. Have a check out of this link on SET:

TOOLS: S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth

I would advise caution regarding telling your dd that her belief that you abused her is wrong. I think you could assume she knows that you don't think that. To me it seems that the incorrect belief in abuse is integral to her issues of attachment and relationships and it wouldn't do to face that unless your dd was well into recovery and wanted to address it. If you needed to you should find the words to communicate that you see things differently. If you tell her she is wrong, that leads to being judgemental.

I now think her charming ways was her way to manipulate her way to get out of work.   She is a con artist.   It's funny... . her teachers all liked her but knew she was capable of better work if she put forth more effort which she never did.   

I understand exactly what you are saying... . but it is judgemental. Consider this: a person who manipulates does so to gain something, it involves a thought out strategy to achieve advantage. We all have thought our children manipulate, but that's not quite so really. Our children lie as a defence mechanism, they lie to protect themselves. If they were manipulating, they are never successful. The lives they lead are full of a terrible internal psychic pain. They struggle to get on in their day to day life. They react from one thing to another. If you consider this to be manipulation then they have to be the world's worst repeat offenders of unsuccessful strategizing to improve their lives and the absolute dumbest people on earth to keep on doing that which doesn't help them - they do get caught out on these lies, don't they?

Now to be judgemental is of no help to us. What helps us is to change the way we think, to open ourselves to humility and acceptance, to let go of our self righteousness and sense of superior knowledge. It is to our advantage to embrace mindfulness. When we can work on that, then we are in a better position to be able to develop our relationship with our dd's and be able to offer them the support they need. And better able to care for ourselves 

make sense?

Vivek    

[FaithfulHope]

Vivek ,

Oh I just love how you make me think about things differently.   I have only had my own thoughts for so many years but its so awesome to get different perspectives on this.   I really appreciate your input. 

 

[Fay]

Very well said Vivek ananda... .

[sunshineplease]

“The ability to observe without evaluating is the highest form of intelligence.”

― Jiddu Krishnamurti