After separation: How is normal grief and not normal like depression or PTSD

[Xtrange]

I’ve reading about that we, the nons, have to deal with grief after separation from a BPD. How is a normal grief and not a normal grief like depression or PTSD.

At the end of my r/s of 12 years, six marriage + six dating. My STBx was depressed and had medications for that, and she told me that I was also depressed, I don’t know if I was gaslighted -to confuse me-, or mirrored –I was the depressed one-.  After she told me that I viewed a T, and I was ok, but after my separation I am feeling kind of depressed, I came back to T, and T send me for a checkup with a psychiatrist just to avoid that my issues get bigger. Is that normal? Is it just a phase?  How do you deal with the grief, the emptiness, the loneliness?

[Validation78]

Hi X!

Simple question! Difficult answer, and different for everyone. You've been with your pwBPD for a long time, so you can probably expect to take awhile to be completely symptom free. I do feel sure though, that you will see huge changes, very quickly, when you remove yourself from the daily toxic exposure. When you can come home to peace, not worry about tip toeing around her, you will know, you have arrived back to some normalcy.

Have you read through the 5 stages of detachment to the right? There's a lot of good information there, as well as all over the site, not to mention posting threads here to get feedback from others.

From my own experience, the first step is NC. Once I made the decision to end my marriage, I also knew it was the end of conversations about the relationship. I had to stop allowing his unhealthy perspective to influence me in any way. Until the divorce was final, our communication was by email only, and all business. I didn't respond to loving words, or hateful words. This was paramount for me. Next, I kept extremely busy. I had very little time to ruminate, and reached out to my friends and family for love and support. I asked them for what I needed, and always had a soft place to fall. I continued seeing the T we went to for DBT. She was the only person who could validate me and my experience, and she was very clear with me about the questions many of us ask, and assured me that he was ill, it was not I, and that I would get better, soon. I relied strongly on my faith. I established a daily routine of prayer, reflection, physical activity, work, and rest. I am 7 months down the road, and still have a twinge of icky feelings now and then, but have found tricks to move past them quickly. My suggestion is to develop a plan that suits you and stick to it. Don't rush the process. Allow yourself time to fully heal and recover. The self improvement part may be a life long endeavor. The grief and detachment part will eventually fade and be a thing of the past. Just hang in there, and reach out for help if and when you need it!

Best Wishes,

Val78

[MatOfTheDoor]

Xtrange, I too am going through the same thing after an 8 year r/s 7 year marriage. My wife blames me for everything. Depression is part of the loss and grieving is normal. Try focusing on yourself and listen to your therapist. Validation78 has some good advice and its just what I needed to hear. I find sharing on these boards relieves some of the grief, emptiness and loneliness.

[charred]

The subject is worded oddly... . I think the separation from someone when the r/s involved a pwBPD is different from normal breakups.

In a normal healthy r/s if you breakup you have a normal mix of good/bad feelings, if you were dumped more bad than good maybe... . but it doesn't kick you in to ruminating, deep depression and agony.

Why the difference? Believe it goes to attachment theory/issues. When we get in an r/s with a pwBPD, they ignore our boundaries, get real close to us and tend to have lots of strong positive emotional exchanges with us (at first)... . and being a bit on the needy sides ourselves we really crave what appears to be the unconditional love, care and understanding we didn't get enough of. We bond with the pwBPD, really bond strongly, like putting them on a pedestal and treating the r/s like a primary relationship we would have with great parents... . which many of us didn't have. So when they switch from mirroring and idealizing us to ranting and raving at us, instead of dropping them like a hot potato... . we ignore the irrationality, and tell ourselves it must be us... . we are at fault... . or we argue about it, but we stay and take a lot of abuse... . because while we don't think of them as a parent, we unconsciously relate to them as one in many ways.

So when they abruptly dump us, or we recycle time and time again and finally give up... . its more like the death of a parent, than the end of a typical relationship. The hurting is much much worse, longer and it affects us deeply... . and unlike the passing of a parent, the pwBPD may still be around, which can make us crazy. Others don't understand... . as they see it as a normal breakup... . whats the big deal, go clubbing meet new people.

The pwBPD filled a hole we had from our FOO's... . and we shouldn't have had the hole, and they filled it with a lot of craziness. Taking the rantings of a disordered person to heart as we do, can certainly leave you with PTSD.

Thats my take on it.

Charred

[MarkMo]

X,

Charred is exactly right. I was just thinking about that when this all started. I lost my father last year and my pwBPD separated from me 2 months ago. This is so much harder.

You made a lot of good points about how people just see it as, 'Well just move on', and it is in no way that easy with a pwBPD. I have never experienced anything close to any of these emotions before. This is new territory for me and I certainly say that for you as well X.

Just know its going to take awhile and self assess yourself from time to time to see how you are doing with everything. I have had to do this a few times. Sometimes its 2 steps forward and 5 back but it will get better. I'm at least hoping for it and I hope for you as well too X.

[charred]

X,

Charred is exactly right. I was just thinking about that when this all started. I lost my father last year and my pwBPD separated from me 2 months ago. This is so much harder.

You made a lot of good points about how people just see it as, 'Well just move on', and it is in no way that easy with a pwBPD. I have never experienced anything close to any of these emotions before. This is new territory for me and I certainly say that for you as well X.

Just know its going to take awhile and self assess yourself from time to time to see how you are doing with everything. I have had to do this a few times. Sometimes its 2 steps forward and 5 back but it will get better. I'm at least hoping for it and I hope for you as well too X.

MarkMo... .

I know its right (from my experience)... . but not everyone agrees with me on it. I dated a pwBPD when I was just out of college about 30 yrs ago... . was smitten and dumped... . devastated me, I left a going business, my family, the city I grew up in, all my friends, just to be away from her, as it hurt so much (she showed up hanging all over a neighbor... . we had been talking marriage... . didn't know about BPD then.)

So 27 yrs later she contacts me on FB and I felt nothing... . she wanted to talk to me on phone... . I heard her voice and it was like 27 yrs never happened... . was 100% back to where I had been. Ended up getting a divorce and REALLY trying to make it work... . 7-8 recycles later I finally threw in the towel... . now knowing she was BPD (had been diagnosed about 15 yrs back)... . and what became clear was that in dating about 25 gals... . and being dumped by many... . none had any lasting effect on me, except her, and the reason wasn't she was special, but rather the primary attachment status I gave her... . and boy has it cost me. Lost my business and moved years ago, but more recently... . the divorce hurt me with wife I loved and daughter, lost 1/2 of my money, another job (pwBPD called as many as 30 times in a day while I was with clients... . that didn't fly... . was making 6 figures)... . anyway I had to understand why and eventually concluded it was my own attachment issues (my mom had her mother die when she was 5... . mom is a great lady... . but cold and distant and not right for small kids... . seen her hold them and its like she is holding a diseased rodent)... . anyway... . that led to issues that made the apparent unconditional love of my exBPDgf seem irresistible.

The tools that really helped have been mindfulness (my T sent me to get Eckart Tolle's "A New Earth"... . and the book helped me stop ruminating and to understand the difference between genuine emotions and egoic ones... . and the BPD ones are 100% egoic... . they don't pass the smell test.

I am sorry to hear you lost your father... . that is hard. I am estranged from mine (he is nasty NPD) but issues with him while bad were nothing compared to hurt and issues with pwBPD. 

Once you stop ruminating and understand why it was like it was and genuinely accept reality... . it gets much better. It is irrational for me to love my exBPDgf... . she did horrible things, is very similar to Jodi Arias... . but I wanted someone that acted like they unconditionally loved me... . and that is what I got... . that is a kid thing... . unconditional love... . it isn't normal between unrelated adults... . and accepting my part in the r/s has helped as well. She goes on and I do as well and I did my best and couldn't fix her and she can't fix me. Me fixing me is only thing that can work.

You fixing you is your best shot.  We have our own issues and its hard to tell what they are, and easy to think we are disordered... . most of us probably are not... . schema therapy is something to check out, it was made to deal with BPD, not sure it does that, but it is very good for figuring out what your issues are and what you can do about them. In my case I found lots of little things I had that bugged people and were not good, but didn't add up to a disorder. The pile of all of them is what helped the r/s be so toxic... . our needy problems fed each other.  Anyway the book "Reinventing your Life" by Jeffrey E. Young (one of the Schema therapy creators)... . is excellent, you can do online free schema therapy tests and find the interpretations... . mine reverberated with me as being very true, and with the book, gave fairly easy things to work on to be happier.

[Xtrange]

Thank you Val78

I've noticed the changes: Not worrying about her constant calls and texts (to control me), felling “safe” from her rage rants (and not knowing the cause). I tried to do things in order to not ruminate or think about it. But I am having trouble making good habits: I am reading a lot; stay up awake until 3-5am, not exercising; staying too much time on the computer and Internet. Not going out, not meeting new people.

It’s been a month since I left home, I filed divorce; I am also NC, only saw her in the notification process and it was hard, not because I love her but for all the FOG she threw on me once again.

Also my T was our couple T, and although she knew a little bit of BPD I send her some papers about the subject and T started noticing her behavior. And it’s very helpful to have someone that understand (at some degree) the trauma of being with a BPD.

Thank you for your help!

[Xtrange]

I find sharing on these boards relieves some of the grief, emptiness and loneliness.

Thank you MatOfTheDoor,

Firs I read many messages of the boards, trying to figure out what happened to me. Then what can I expect from divorcing a DPB (also read the book “Splitting”) and now what should I do in order to heal.

When I submit my first post, I had like a small panic attack: Did I post too soon? What if she reads it? (This was irrational because she can’t read English)

[Xtrange]

The subject is worded oddly... . I think the separation from someone when the r/s involved a pwBPD is different from normal breakups.

In a normal healthy r/s if you breakup you have a normal mix of good/bad feelings, if you were dumped more bad than good maybe... . but it doesn't kick you in to ruminating, deep depression and agony.

Why the difference? Believe it goes to attachment theory/issues. When we get in an r/s with a pwBPD, they ignore our boundaries, get real close to us and tend to have lots of strong positive emotional exchanges with us (at first)... . and being a bit on the needy sides ourselves we really crave what appears to be the unconditional love, care and understanding we didn't get enough of. We bond with the pwBPD, really bond strongly, like putting them on a pedestal and treating the r/s like a primary relationship we would have with great parents... . which many of us didn't have. So when they switch from mirroring and idealizing us to ranting and raving at us, instead of dropping them like a hot potato... . we ignore the irrationality, and tell ourselves it must be us... . we are at fault... . or we argue about it, but we stay and take a lot of abuse... . because while we don't think of them as a parent, we unconsciously relate to them as one in many ways.

So when they abruptly dump us, or we recycle time and time again and finally give up... . its more like the death of a parent, than the end of a typical relationship. The hurting is much much worse, longer and it affects us deeply... . and unlike the passing of a parent, the pwBPD may still be around, which can make us crazy. Others don't understand... . as they see it as a normal breakup... . whats the big deal, go clubbing meet new people.

The pwBPD filled a hole we had from our FOO's... . and we shouldn't have had the hole, and they filled it with a lot of craziness. Taking the rantings of a disordered person to heart as we do, can certainly leave you with PTSD.

Thats my take on it.

Charred

--

Charred,

You’re right. The correct title must be: After separation from a BPD…

And also, as you said: a r/t with a BPD isn’t NORMAL.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience, some of my family and friends also don’t get it and think that I was exaggerating and that the fearful to her was irrational.

I don’t want to fall into deep depression, or PTSD. I stopped, at some degree, the rumination. I am still trying to know what to do in the future. The madness goes on: she is trying to get contact with me, and I decided NC; thus, I am hiding from her, I am feeling chased.

[Xtrange]

How many of you had being diagnosed with mixed adjustment disorder?

[Xtrange]

Anybody with PTSD?

[charred]

My T said PTSD and did EMDR for it. I had an extreme pwBPD... . she reminded all that knew her of Jodi Arias, she showed up uninvited on holidays early in the morning when we were broke up... after driving hundreds of miles, had rages that were epic. Left me in many ways a former shell of myself. I couldn't understand why I STILL had attraction to her after her being horribly abusive and 70% of the time it being a truly terrible r/s. Then she told me I had attachment issues and knowing she liked to insult with a grain of truth... . read up on attachment theory and concluded it explained the deep pain from losing a pwBPD... . as well as why I avoid closeness with other people. The BPD lack of observing boundaries is why she over ran my self protective psychological walls that keep others away.

Mindfulness helped stop my ruminating,... . and forcing myself to accept reality... . that I have issues and she has giant issues and if it were going to work it would have one of the 8 times we tried... has helped me to move on. I have met other women, and when I feel that familiar electricity I see it for the   it is, and can steer clear of danger.

Normal breakups are painful, the ones with people with BPD... . if you have your own FOO issues, and many if not most of us do... . is devastating, and I think it is because it feels like losing a parent, and we mistakenly put them in that position... . and try to please them and be happy with them, and its a fool's errand.

[Xtrange]

My T said PTSD and did EMDR for it. I had an extreme pwBPD... . she reminded all that knew her of Jodi Arias, she showed up uninvited on holidays early in the morning when we were broke up... after driving hundreds of miles, had rages that were epic. Left me in many ways a former shell of myself. I couldn't understand why I STILL had attraction to her after her being horribly abusive and 70% of the time it being a truly terrible r/s. Then she told me I had attachment issues and knowing she liked to insult with a grain of truth... . read up on attachment theory and concluded it explained the deep pain from losing a pwBPD... . as well as why I avoid closeness with other people. The BPD lack of observing boundaries is why she over ran my self protective psychological walls that keep others away.

Mindfulness helped stop my ruminating,... . and forcing myself to accept reality... . that I have issues and she has giant issues and if it were going to work it would have one of the 8 times we tried... has helped me to move on. I have met other women, and when I feel that familiar electricity I see it for the   it is, and can steer clear of danger.

Normal breakups are painful, the ones with people with BPD... . if you have your own FOO issues, and many if not most of us do... . is devastating, and I think it is because it feels like losing a parent, and we mistakenly put them in that position... . and try to please them and be happy with them, and its a fool's errand.

Charred,

I am sorry you've being in so much pain and stress.

Although I am separated from stbxBPDw I am still thinking I would met her in any place. The uncertainty is difficult to handle. She was trying to find me at work and at my mother’s home. So I am basically hiding from her ‘til divorce is final! Somebody just told me that a paper (the divorce) wouldn’t stop her! And that’s scary.

I am in T and with meds in order to deal with the mixed adjustment disorder (anxiety and depression).

Thanks, I now will try to find the root problem.

[Bananas]

How many of you had being diagnosed with mixed adjustment disorder?

Me. I am in therapy.  My ex has a lot of N and ASPD traits. I think I would be farther along in my recovery if I didn't have to see him so much, we work together.

[charred]

If the root problem goes back to our FOO and childhood... . which it probably does, then my whole BPD r/s is just a symptom of my issues... . ouch.

Attachment issues are so early, pervasive and all encompassing, that changing them seems daunting. It was terrible when I blamed myself for everything and didn't know anything of BPD... . but I thought getting her back was the complete solution.

Then viewing myself as a non and her as disordered... . could move on and find someone that had that same kind of electricity.

Now I know the roots of the problem are in me too... . and the electricity is a   ... . but the optimistic fix outlook is gone.

I am working on my issues and will continue too, but its a bit of a downer... . still wanting some kind of silver lining to this storm cloud.

[Xtrange]

Attachment issues are so early, pervasive and all encompassing, that changing them seems daunting. It was terrible when I blamed myself for everything and didn't know anything of BPD... . but I thought getting her back was the complete solution.

I also though that I could solve the problems with stbxBPD. And also didn't know about BPD. What a mistake! And the guilt.