Start of devaluation, a question

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

At the start of the devaluation phase with your SO, did you notice it immediately?

If so, what were you thinking when you did?

In round 1 of my relationship with my exUBPDgf, I didn't know anything about BPD until towards end/after she discard me.

When I think back to it, I did notice her acting completely irritable with me, this after I spent my first few days with her in her city. We had been incredibly intimate.

I had no idea that was what had triggered it.

Until long after.

I just thought she was acting so "off"... .

I hadn't done anything that I knew of to have deserved the incoming onslaught that was to come.

In round 2, I already knew of her BPD.

I watched closely as her behavior changed.

I was present when she was triggered into the devaluation phase.

I knew exactly what was to come.

Made no difference.

The onslaught was inbound.

Far more ferocious then round 1.

It was awful. Things she said. Her behavior.

Directed only at me.

I remember closing my eyes when I was with her in that phase and wondering why I had allowed myself to be in that position.

I had no answer to that question.

Her words tore right through me.

Devaluation... . Hell on earth.

[Ironmanrises]

At the start of the devaluation phase with your SO, did you notice it immediately?

If so, what were you thinking when you did?

In round 1 of my relationship with my exUBPDgf, I didn't know anything about BPD until towards end/after she discard me.

When I think back to it, I did notice her acting completely irritable with me, this after I spent my first few days with her in her city. We had been incredibly intimate.

I had no idea that was what had triggered it.

Until long after.

I just thought she was acting so "off"... .

I hadn't done anything that I knew of to have deserved the incoming onslaught that was to come.

In round 2, I already knew of her BPD.

I watched closely as her behavior changed.

I was present when she was triggered into the devaluation phase.

I knew exactly what was to come.

Made no difference.

The onslaught was inbound.

Far more ferocious then round 1.

It was awful. Things she said. Her behavior.

Directed only at me.

I remember closing my eyes when I was with her in that phase and wondering why I had allowed myself to be in that position.

I had no answer to that question.

Her words tore right through me.

Devaluation... . Hell on earth.

[frustrated b/f]

 My uBPD g/f never really dismissed me during what I perceived to be the devaluation stages. Instead, I would get the accusations of cheating & betrayal, along with character assassination and general withdrawal.

[Ironmanrises]

Frustrated,

That must have really hurt to experience.

I am so sorry.

I got the character assassination too, in both rounds.

Everything she would say she loved about me in idealize would be the very thing she would tell me she detested in me in devaluation.

The damage that did to me. I am still reeling from it.

Withdrawal too... . in both rounds, towards the end, she refused to speak to me over the phone and reduced relationship to just texting.

While speaking and interacting with everyone else.

That really hurt me.

[Mutt]

I did not know that I was going through devaluation when I was going through it. but I knew something was not right. Only after she had left did I learn about BPD. It was more often and more intense as the r/s wore on until she left (fear of abandonment) after I had unwittingly told her that I was going to leave her as scare tactic to stop.

When your talking in rounds are you talking about recycling? The stages from idealization to devaluation are the same if you break off with your ex-partner, and get back together later on but it's much worse than before? I can't imagine it being worse than for what it is.

My ex-partner would say "You're a f****** ___**** Mutt!" over and over in front of the kids or she would start that same line and rage without the kids around. That was her usual MO, another one I didn't like was car traveling. Oy vey, that's hard when to listen to with the kids in the vehicle and trying to get her to calm down on a long road trip. I really detested for her raging in front of the kids and she would justify her actions as saying that she is trying to teach the kids that dad can't treat mom like he is.

[mitchell16]

yes I could tell when it fixing to start. In the first year in half I didnt I couldnt understand and would argue back or defend myself. eventually we would split up or she would get some made that she would break up. I didnt make sense to me the things she would say or accuse me i would naturally fight back. later once I knew about BPD i could start seeing in coming. It started out slow, little small slights or what i call nit picking. I didnt sweep right, or I just wasnt acting right, or if I asked her what she ate for lunch in just general conversation she would come back a few hours later that I made her feel like I was checking on her. When it first started happening I was just floored. because it would be all made of BS, didnt happen or I didnt say it or i didnt even do.

Once i learned about BPD I cant say I handled it  better but I would resist getting angry or defending myself until I couldnt stand it anymore or her lies and accusation, rages so crazy I couldnt hold it back anymore. of course that would complete the push/away cycle and she could blame me because I left so I abandoned her. BUt really who could sit and listen to be crtizied none stop about every 30 minutes not matter what you did.

The day after christmas. We had greta christmas, first one i got to spend with her family. She had to work the next day i was off. I cleaned house, shopped for groceries, started our dinner, ran some errands. When she got home she told me she had a problem with someone sitting on their butt all day while she worked. and the devauling just kept getting worse, no matter what i said or done. That day, how eat my food, what i watched on tv, wasnt the right thing to do. It gave me a whole new meaning to walking on eggshells.

[Scout99]

I am thinking aloud here a little since I don't know this for sure... . But since I have had the (mis)fortune of having been in one relationship with a pw narcissistic PD and one with borderline I have learned not only through reading but also from experience to notice some of the differences in these two types of disorders... . And some of that touches in a way on your subject... .

In the narcissistic behavioral pattern where other people to a large degree are not viewed as people, but more in the terms of objects from which the narcissist extracts benefits from in the form of validation, adoration, appraise and so on. And while doing so idealizes the object of your desire. Within that form of disorder the recurring patterns of idealization, devaluation and discard is very prominent... . In the foundation of the NPD lies a very basal devaluation of the true self, that they believe is not possible to love, so the narcissist is always trying to create a more perfect self and relates to other people on a need basis and mostly actually deep down despises or looks down on the concept of love... . Since they believe it is false. And emotions are puny in a way to their imagined superior sense of self... .

Now with the borderline personality things are a bit different... . The borderline disorder is instead all about feelings and overwhelming feelings and putting too much emphasis on feelings. So what is more present in the BPD disorder is dysregulation, that is when the feelings begin to become too overwhelming, too scary or simply too conflicting for them to handle, and hence they dysregulate and dissociate and deflect and project them onto others.

Now to complicate things further, traits of narcissism can be found also in the borderline personality. Most of us have noticed quite large amounts of selfishness in our BPD loved ones. But sometimes I think the term narcissism is used a little bit too widely, since it is virtually the only word we have for selfishness as a whole... . And that I believe becomes a little misleading sometimes... . I mean, we all harbor some amount of selfishness at times and a bit of selfishness is even in most cultures considered to be healthy. Otherwise we become doormats... . But the narcissistic selfishness is in my opinion a little something extra... .  because of the objectification of their peers... .

And it is in that form that we find the devaluation and discard parts, I do believe... .

Most borderlines flea relationships or cannot stay in them due to fear of abandonment, engulfment, intimacy and core beliefs of being unlovable... . But most borderlines have a very hard time of letting go of any relationships they have had, so they often come back and recycle and try over and over, but still can't handle it... .

The pure narcissist idealizes, devalues and discards and once full discard enters the scene they hardly ever looks back... . Just moves on to a new object to gain supply from.

So my theory is, that when there are amounts of (pathological) narcissism present in a person with BPD, I think you can often see what Ironmanfalls here describes very well. And I can certainly relate to that in regards to my relationship with a guy with NPD. He played that out no less than five times full circle during our relationship. And it took me three recycles of idealization, devaluation and (lighter) discard to realize something was severely wrong with him... . To live through those cycles was devastating to say the least! And it took me more than a year to bounce back from that experience!

Now with my borderline ex, things are not the same... . He has never really either devalued me or discarded me... . He has bounced in and out of committing to the relationship, but that has never been about my "shortcomings" or about me not being good enough for him. But instead about him not being able to handle the evolvement of the relationship towards more intimacy and establishment. And the motivating factor or the drive behind his dysregulative phases has always been about intense fear of loosing me or at least yet again loosing someone or failing in the relationship department... .

His behavior however during the dysregulating stages and the break up cycles have for sure been hurtful, and many angry and hurtful things have been uttered. But even if he has a hard time apologizing at times, he has always been tormented himself afterwards by remorse and shame and guilt... .

None of that was ever present in my narcissistic ex bf... . He was way more cold and callous about it and could never ever in any way even admit to his behavior or accept blame in anyway. He never felt remorse either, unless it was to fish for sympathy, when for instance his own son decided to go NC with him at the age of eleven... .

My NPD guy was only "happy" in the relationship when everything in his life was to his liking... . If something got iffy at work or he was feeling stressed or a plan of his didn't work out... . He would immediately also question the foundation of our relationship... . The shifts were very sudden. And he could even question the whole relationship if I didn't give him the right answer, (sometimes even the answer he didn't know he wanted) about what I thought we should have for dinner... . If I suggested something that didn't tickle his pallets, then he could seriously consider breaking up with me, since we no longer seemed to move in the same direction, as he often put it... .   I learned from that to dread that very question and tried everything I could to read his mind or make vague suggestions to sort of make him come up with what I was about to say... . So he felt as if I wanted exactly what he wanted... . Insane indeed, on my part!

Now the NP disorder is also driven by fear, but way more suppressed fear, so it just never shows... . Whereas in the borderlines dysregulations and mood swings you can always detect the fear, if you look close enough... .

Anyway... . These are my thoughts... .

Best Wishes

Scout99

[bpdspell]

Hindsight is 20/20.

When I look back the red flags were glaring from jump.

When it begins really doesn't matter... . with BPD it's just a question of when their disordered feelings will be triggered.

The intimacy and closeness triggered my ex in ways that left me confused, puzzled and off kilter. With my personal schema I thought I could flex my "rescue muscle" to fix the misunderstandings that seemed to multiply by the hour.

But the entitlement, the neediness, the push/pull, the lack of reciprocity... . Like Mutt... . I knew something was not right.

Devaluation isn't personal. It's what they do when their disorder is triggered. We cannot make devaluation about us even though it's targeted at us. Our ex's behave the way they do because they're mentally ill and unable to maintain closeness, intimacy and mature reciprocal love.

We have to see our ex's as human beings that existed way before we came into their picture. Many BPD's have a dark and pretty unpleasant past. Over the years they've learned maladaptive coping mechanisms to cope with their stunted emotional wiring. This is no fault of our own and they don't devalue us because we're flawed.

They devalue us because they're sick in the head and heart.

Spell

[Mutt]

Devaluation isn't personal. It's what they do when their disorder is triggered. We cannot make devaluation about us even though it's targeted at us. Our ex's behave the way they do because they're mentally ill and unable to maintain closeness, intimacy and mature reciprocal love.

We have to see our ex's as human beings that existed way before we came into their picture. Many BPD's have a dark and pretty unpleasant past. Over the years they've learned maladaptive coping mechanisms to cope with their stunted emotional wiring. This is no fault of our own and they don't devalue us because we're flawed.

They devalue us because they're sick in the head and heart.

Spell

Well articulated. In one hand I feel resentment and anger on how she discarded me in a manner that was hurtful because there was no empathy. I feel the same resentment and anger towards her for her lack of seeing the big picture with how her actions doesn't only affect one person, it affects/ed 5 people other people. Shoot first aim later. I still saw her as a person after she left, but quickly started to see her as a mental illness and condition while researching BPD. At the end of the day, she is still a person like myself but with a mental illness.

[Ironmanrises]

Mutt,

Yes, rounds I am referring to mean re-engagements/recycle. She re-engaged me once(round 2) that I allowed to happen.

I was 3 months NC with her when she left me first time.

I never reached out to her at all. Had her blocked on on Facebook, etc.

She actually watched/stalked me from fake accounts on Facebook, etc.

I had no idea she was doing that.

Today is 49 days NC after she left after round 2.

I haven't reached out to her at all.

I have gotten unknown calls/texts a few times since I have been NC.

I fear it is her.

She has done this before.

Devaluation was bad first time I went through it, she actually raged at me. I never experienced anything like that on my life before that.

Left me utterly shook.

The second round I went through devaluation, she didn't rage but I experienced her words which she used like projectiles over a longer period of time.

I only was able to deflect them for a while.

Shortly afterwards, I began to absorb the words.

She said things that were precisely aimed at weak points.

Over and over.

My self esteem was decimated.

Both times, this anger was only directed at me.

The person closest to her, intimately.

I began getting anxiety attacks in round 2 of devaluation.

For me it was far worse then her raging the first time around.

Don't get me wrong, that raging was brutal in itself.

My ironman suit both times was not sufficient to protect me.

It's completely riddled with gaping holes.

Words hurt. Especially when they come from the one closest to you.

[Mutt]

Devaluation was bad first time I went through it, she actually raged at me. I never experienced anything like that on my life before that.

Left me utterly shook.

This. It's an experience that I can't seem to articulate or describe it's intesity to family and friends. I have never come across anything like it in my life, and nor do I wish to. I will never stand there and take it ever again.

I really feel your pain. She would cut me down and knew exactly all of my weak points and was cruel and relentless. Reading this made me recall my experiences with STBX uBPDw.

[Ironmanrises]

Mutt,

I am so sorry you endured that too. I can definitely relate to my friends not understanding that at all. I recoil as I think about that.

I will return and fully respond to you and the others when I get out of work later tonight.

Ironmanfalls

[Morrison11]

Mutt,

I wholeheartedly agree with your statement that explaining the devaluation and rage to family and friends is something that they just can't seem to understand the intensity of.  Unless someone has experienced the motions of a BPD relationship, the idealization, the intense intimacy, the splitting in the blink of an eye, the constant need for validation, and then the dreadful devaluation, they can't fully understand the despair we feel after the break.

Ironman,

I can relate to the moment where we close our eyes and sort of have an out of body experience, looking down at ourselves and thinking how did we even get here?  The best way I've been coping with the pain of the break and the NC period is by reminding myself that we are doing what is best for ourself, AND our BPD loved one.  Even though things fell apart, it's very much a comfort to me to think about how much I do love her.  Because of how much I love her, I acknowledged the pain she feels because of her illness, which was intensified by her relationship with me.  I do NOT blame myself for the pain she felt, or justify her rages and physical attacks as well as character attacks.  Instead, I accept that in this moment, it is healthiest for her to be without me.

Keep your head up, and try to stay as positive as you can about it.  It feels good to look in the mirror at myself, consider my departure from the relationship selfless, and respect and love myself.  I just hope that one day she can and will do the same.

[Ironmanrises]

Mitchell,

I know exactly what you are referring to.

Even when i knew the second time around that she has BPD... . it didnt matter if i defended myself, didnt defend myself, said this or that... . the devaluation continued... . unabated.

If i showed her more attention, less, if i withdrew, didnt withdraw, tried to be more understanding, etc... . none of that made any difference.

Once she was triggered into devaluation... . and fired the first of many missiles at me... .

She didnt stop.

It is such a helpless feeling to have to endure.

Picture a navy ship with waves of missiles inbound from multiple angles and its CIWS(Close in Weapons System... . Last ditch rapid fire cannon used by navy ships to intercept and destroy any missiles/planes that get by all other defenses)... . All rapidly firing and trying to intercept all incoming missiles. After a while... . they either run out of ammo and/or there are too many incoming projectiles to successfully engage and destroy every single one of them.

Some will get through. After a while... . all of them will get through.

This is what a mental image i have of what enduring such an onslaught was like.

Sorry, i am a military buff.

Scout,

Quite an in depth look at both disorders.

I will attempt to digest as much of that as i can.

BPDspell,

Devaluation isnt personal... . I get that.

But it is incredibly hard not to take it personal when you are the one being targeted.

And only you. The one closest to them.

And in all of cases... . it is always the non.

I know what you are trying to say though.

From what my exUBPDgf told me of her past... .

I think it started from her childhood being raised by negligent parents.

They compromised a lovely human being.

It saddens me beyond words. The chaos they created by such negligence.

Its ramifications... . ripples... . damage everything that it encounters.

Morrison,

Well stated.

All of this has been exhausting.

In all realms.

I am trying.

Thank you for the kind words.