How do I respond to a demand for an apology?

[RedEye]

My wife is constantly demanding that I apologize for things. Sometimes I have legitimately done something wrong (said something rude, used a disrespectful tone), but most of the time it's either something that's not wrong, something from the past that I've already apologized for plenty of times, or something that's not my responsibility (like her emotions). Every now and then she wants me to apologize individually for everything I've ever done wrong. She usually demands it in a very angry and intimidating voice and won't let me say anything until I do so and do it sincerely (or at least sound sincere). Anything else is seen as avoiding responsibility.

Is there a way to explain to her that I don't feel responsible, or that I've already apologized and don't feel I should do so again, without sounding defensive? I feel that if I try to validate her feelings and stop there, she'll see it as avoiding the issue. I don't think apologizing for everything she wants me to whenever she wants me to is the right response, either.

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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Kenny]

The last sentence has an empowering tone to it.  Self forgiveness I believe is what she is thinking transferred on you as evidenced by, you having to apologize for past hurts.

This is the same in my relationship, although the wish for an apology is what I crave. But it is second to her just bringing it up as ammunition because she knows this is one of my push buttons.

I try to keep my side of the street clean. But I often have to apologize.

[Cipher13]

Mikoshi

I am in the same situation with constant apology. Sometimes it si easier if you can stomache it apease her of what she needs even if you don't fully agree. I think maybe the probelmwith that end sup being now she will expect it more often for more and more things that have less and les to do with anything important.  Its a slippery slope. Tell me if you also run into this... . A problem or issue arises and she is upset. You calmly say you peace about it and she doesn't like it. So now you are being rude or ignorant to her. All you did was have an opinion that contradicted hers. You were polite and honest about it. Now she demands you apologize for you rude behavior... . but as you attempt to she stops you and says I shouldn't have to tell you to apologize now if you do its just because I said to and you don't really mean it... . I have foudn more and more the length of time between when she first tells me I am rude to the time she says I need to apologize is so short that it seems liek she is trying to prevent me from even being able to just so she can say I can't because it wont be meaningful becasue she had to tell me to do it.

[Clearmind]

Support, Empathy, Truth

Use of validation is a good tool. It validates your wife's emotions without assuming responsibility.

We need to be mindful not to enable - meaning - not assume responsibility so the partner can be relieved of responsibility.

Boundaries! If things escalate take time out and regroup - don't justify, debate, explain. Your partner needs to learn how to self soothe on their own without projecting onto you. Its interesting how we often make things worse by not taking time out.

[RedEye]

Cipher13, that sounds pretty familiar, especially having to apologize when it seems to me like a valid difference in opinion. Lately my wife demands promises and reparations with apologies to judge whether I am sincere or not. I suppose it's fair that she wants to see signs of change (I've been bad about looking respectful when she's blowing up at me, and she's right to feel disrespected when I'm not looking at her or when I'm trying to do other things simultaneously) and not just words, but it's hard when after an apology, I receive, "No, you're not sorry! If you were, you wouldn't keep doing it! Now promise right now that you'll never do it again. Good, now do something for me." What that something is, I still haven't figured out (she won't tell me, and doesn't seem to know, either), but apparently she wants a gift or service or some extra, unrelated token.

Clearmind, what if my wife demands that I do assume responsibility? I think she'd take any validations as cop-outs. Do you think by sticking to validating, it will soothe her and she may back down from her demands?

[Clearmind]

Boundaries Mik - its not helping her at all if you assume responsibility - its enabling. It may soothe her it may  not - either way you cannot make it OK for her, she needs to do that herself.

[waverider]

You apologize only if you are sincere. To do so in order to simply appease is further enabling and encouraging unreasonable demands. If you feel the need to justify why you wont, simply state that you dont wish to make insincere apologies just to appease her, as she will know why you are doing it, and it will undermine the value of genuine heartfelt apologies.

pwBPD often make insincere apologies and statements, they suspect others do the same as this is normal to them, and why they are often paranoid and think others untrustworthy. By doing likewise you reinforce this pattern, rather than setting a better example

You can discuss why she feels so hurt and what it is that makes her believe you are responsible. That is support and validation, but the truth is you dont have to agree with her proposed resolution

Speak your truth from your perspective, it may go down like a lead balloon in that moment, but in the long run it will add weight to genuine apologies.

You often have to look past band aiding that moment.

[waverider]

Clearmind, what if my wife demands that I do assume responsibility? I think she'd take any validations as cop-outs. Do you think by sticking to validating, it will soothe her and she may back down from her demands?

The end result does not always need to be appeasement and getting her to back down. You can help soothe, but it is not soley your responsibility. It is her stuff, and she needs to learn to fix her own stuff. If she can't, then at times you have to accept it will remain unfixed. If you always take on the role of fixing her stuff, then you will be given that role always, and the projection will continue.

To make a demand does not mean someone has the right to get something, we can all make unreasonable demands that's simply not the way the world works, and that's the truth bit.

[Cipher13]

but it's hard when after an apology, I receive, "No, you're not sorry! If you were, you wouldn't keep doing it! Now promise right now that you'll never do it again. Good, now do something for me." What that something is, I still haven't figured out (she won't tell me, and doesn't seem to know, either), but apparently she wants a gift or service or some extra, unrelated token.

I've been here to. I too have had the if you are sorry then stop doing it. You must want ot do this on purpose to me. For the longest times she would tell me "I shouldn't have to tell you what I want from you. You should know." Then finally I got a list. Cool right. Nah that list was unrealistic. As it had to be follwed to the letter constantly or you ignored the whole thing on purpose.

Boundaries! If things escalate take time out and regroup - don't justify, debate, explain. Your partner needs to learn how to self soothe on their own without projecting onto you. Its interesting how we often make things worse by not taking time out

I don;t know if my sistuation is different here with a time out but there should be a warning label in this... . I tried it the other night. Things were escalating fast and furious so I said time out I need to leave the room. I said I will stop imediately and come back if you can quiet the tone down. It kept gettign worse so I decided I needed to be outside. That caus eher to fly into a rage I have never seen all the time I begged to her to please quiet her voice and I will stop what Im doing and talk. After blocking the door I had not chpoice than to cave in and just sit on the bed until she calmed down. If I didn't keep a level head it would have gotten out of control.

[briefcase]

I don't know if you guys play any poker - I'm not much of a gambler but play occassionally.  Have you ever played with someone who likes to go "all in"?  They push all their chips to the center of the table and basically dare everyone else to do the same.  The first couple of times it happens, the other players assume the player doing this must have a pretty strong hand - so they fold, and try to live to play another hand.  Some players learn that this tactic works whether you're holding a full house or a pair of twos - raise the stakes high enough and you can win the hand because everyone else is too afraid of losing.  When the tactic is overused, someone eventually calls their bluff and takes them out of the game.  

 

Your partners are experts at raising the emotional stakes in your relationships, and you're afraid of calling the bluff because the stakes seem so high.  So, you keep folding, thinking you're living to play another hand later.  But the same thing keeps happening.

Now, our relationships aren't a game, and the stakes are high.  But, you have to stop folding to make changes.  Believe it or not, you are holding the stronger hand in the relationship.  Really.  You just need to play your cards right.

What we work on here, in the beginning at least, is redefining what "normal" means in the relationship.  Right now, you guys are describing a very unhappy and dysfunctional normal.  We all started in the exact same spot.  Your partners do not want to redefine normal the way you do.  I wish they did.  But, they don't.  They continue to do what they do because it works.  They will not like it when you stop playing the game.  They will push all their chips into the center of the table and keep raising the stakes - they know from experience that when they act like this you will fold.  When you don't they will be very shaken and disoriented - just like the poker player whose bluff was just called.

We are sincere when we says things will get worse before they get better.  Many of us also had to become comfortable risking the relationship in order to make it better.  This is what we mean.  The change is disruptive and unpleasant for everyone - you, her, kids (if you have them).  It does get better though.

I don't think it's possible that anyone here could have folded in these conflicts more than me.  I apologized all the time.  I took responsibility for my wife's emotions.  I tried to fix everything wrong in my wife's world.  I did it for 14 years and at the end, there wasn't anything left of me and she was just as unhappy, hurt and angry as the day I started.  I've changed that.  You can too.  

[Chosen]

Hi Mikoshi! 

I used to apologise for everything.  I over-apologise, and apologise for things which are not my fault.  I still have the tendency to do that but I'm learning not to do so, because I can assure you it doesn't do your relationship any good.

As you said, there are certain things you aren't responsible for, or that you have apologised a million times for.  My H had a habit of completely breaking me down (till I cry and literally beg for his forgiveness, falling at his feet) and getting a tearful apology from me.   I usually feel like rubbish afterwards because well... . I've been a doormat.

What I do now is this:

- if it's something that I really was wrong, I apologise once or twice.  I don't get all teary about it.  I sincerely say, I'm sorry about hit_.  He may try to get more apologies from me, but even if I do, I don't change my tone/ wording.  If it goes round in circles I will tell him I have apologised many times for _____.

- if it's something I don't feel is my fault, I use SET.  He does not like it and he will not buy it (will say "at least you used to apologise, now you refuse to accept responsbility", but don't let our pwBPDs lead us how to think.   If it's something you can improve on but weren't wrong, I will say "maybe you're right, maybe I could do better next time.  I didn't do it so well this time.  I tried to do it the best I could at that moment."  Then it's up to the pwBPD whether they accept it or not.  Just because they don't accept it doesn't mean you're wrong.  If you let them think that they can change your mind/ stance, they will keep doing it.

[nodoover]

I don't know if this is right or not but I always apologize for my part and then say, what do you think your part was?

He is into this blame, black and white its all my fault and he is bad if it was all him, I am bad if its all me.

I have even said over and over again to set it in, life is not black & white, life is grey. I am sorry for using the wrong tone or whatever I think I could have done, then say what do you think your part was? If he says its all you I did nothing, I say again life is not about who is right and who is wrong.

I take personal responsibility for the things I do and you need to take responsibility for your actions. I say this in as calm a manner as possible.

Its slowly sinking in, he is not blaming me as much.

[yeeter]

OK, this may not be the ideal approach but it has helped tremendously.

I pretty much just quit apologizing.  If I did something 'wrong', I just internally chalk it up as 'ok, Im human' (being human isnt 'wrong'!)

Well, I know I do still sometimes apologize.  Just my nature.  But many times in the past the apologies were taken as an admission of guilt and wrong doing, which wasnt particularly helpful to my own self esteem (especially when used a lot) and wasnt particularly healthy to her owning her own emotions (vs just projecting them onto me).

So these days I might respond more like... . 'yes, I did that.  I made a mistake.  It happens'.  A little different than an apology, and somewhat a statement that I WANT to make mistakes because this makes me human.  This is when I do acknowledge it, which again is rare.

In general, apologies are few and far between (they are somewhat assumed since after all, I am human - of course I make mistakes!).  This has been a much better way to dealing with it.  And the accusations have reduced as a result - Im assuming because there isnt the same satisfaction because no longer can dump the emotions on me.

[drv3006]

OMG, my guy does this too.  300 text over the weekend demanding an apology.  And its is never acceptable.  Anyway I say it.  So I find a new way and then I am a liar.   Because I am saying things differently.  Of course I am. Thank you for posting this.  I will need to go back and see what everyone said.   About this.  I truly felt alone on the demanding an apology.   

[Cipher13]

I truly felt alone on the demanding an apology.

I have found if you feel that your situation is truley unique chances are you are not alone. There are other that are going through almost the exact same thing.

After several tries at an apology if I find that she seems liek she doesn't want to accept it then I rephrase some things and then I am also a liar. The menaing is the same the words are different and to her it was different. Thats so frustrating.

[RedEye]

I don't know if this is right or not but I always apologize for my part and then say, what do you think your part was?

I like this idea a lot! Granted, the answer will be, "Nothing, it was entirely your fault," but I like the idea of making this a habit to say, and maybe eventually it will start to settle in that maybe things aren't always all my fault.

[yeeter]

Im not convinced.  My experience is that trying to do things to make her own up to her side of the equation, is an exercise in futility.

And staying around for 300 requests for apology doesnt seem healthy either. 

Again, my advise would be to use apologies very sparingly... . and at the same time examine very closely, why you have the compulsion to apologize.  Otherwise we might find ourselves apologizing for things that were not really issues, or that were completely reasonable in a normal relationship.  By apologizing, it reinforces their thought processes as valid.

Instead validate the feelings/emotions.  'I can see you are really upset over this.  Frustrated.  Angry.  That must be a difficult mode to be in... . '

[drv3006]

Instead validate the feelings/emotions.  'I can see you are really upset over this.  Frustrated.  Angry.  That must be a difficult mode to be in... . '

So here is my question on the above comment.   When I validate like this.  My response has always been.  Something like this.   "Oh, you can see I'm upset can you, I have a right to be upset."   Then I would say of course you do.  Then I would get berating text of anything and everything that every happened in the course of our relationship and how I am this awful person.  I do agree apology just enables him.   Buy franky, I think it would be nice if they would just be quiet.  I am very bitter all.  And I apologize for my resentments coming across the boards.   But I find validating (with a man who has taken a year of DBT)  makes matters totally worse for me.   Every time I say I can see you are upset or any kind of validating, I am now self righteouse fake, who thinks I am better than him.  Seriously. I think we are all da#ned if we do and Da#ned if we dont'.

[yeeter]

Then I would get berating text of anything and everything that every happened in the course of our relationship and how I am this awful person. 

At this point its time to exit stage left.  Take a walk.  Leave.  Do not stay around for verbal abuse.

[yeeter]

But franky, I think it would be nice if they would just be quiet. 

Yes it would indeed.  A normal person, with a normal relationship would be nice.

I do get the bitterness and resentment and anger and frustration.  But its not all that helpful, so part of the work for ourselves is to reel it.  Which means focusing on items you can control.  Accepting the rest as just the reality of the situation.  Then making your own path forward.

[Wrongturn1]

Briefcase: kudos to you for a classic post - I loved the poker analogy!

Yeeter: agree with you that asking them to acknowledge their part in the predicament is not productive.  I experimented with this a couple of times along the lines of "what percentage do you think your actions contributed to this unpleasant situation? 50%, 10%, 1%?"  Just a blank stare, followed by an estimate of zero percent and a raging tirade of blame.  They don't seem to be capable of thinking in these terms.

drv3006: boundaries can set you free.  Example boundaries: I will not apologize unless I really did something wrong and then only once; I will not accept emotional abuse and will walk away when it starts to happen; I will delete all emotionally abusive texts (and unwanted multiple texts) without responding to them.  Every time you accept that kind of behavior, you invite him to do it again in the future.

[waverider]

Instead validate the feelings/emotions.  'I can see you are really upset over this.  Frustrated.  Angry.  That must be a difficult mode to be in... . '

So here is my question on the above comment.   When I validate like this.  My response has always been.  Something like this.   "Oh, you can see I'm upset can you, I have a right to be upset."   Then I would say of course you do.  Then I would get berating text of anything and everything that every happened in the course of our relationship and how I am this awful person.  I do agree apology just enables him.   Buy franky, I think it would be nice if they would just be quiet.  I am very bitter all.  And I apologize for my resentments coming across the boards.   But I find validating (with a man who has taken a year of DBT)  makes matters totally worse for me.   Every time I say I can see you are upset or any kind of validating, I am now self righteouse fake, who thinks I am better than him.  Seriously. I think we are all da#ned if we do and Da#ned if we dont'.

This when i disengage once it turns into self righteous nonsense, it just feeds it. I stop validating and any sort of apology if they are not receptive. If they want validation  or apology then then they need to be prepared to accept it.

Being careful not to sound like you just swallowed a therapy book is important or it starts to be patronizing.

BPD nonsense is like the tide you can't stop it, but at least it comes and goes.

drv3006: boundaries can set you free.  Example boundaries: I will not apologize unless I really did something wrong and then only once; I will not accept emotional abuse and will walk away when it starts to happen; I will delete all emotionally abusive texts (and unwanted multiple texts) without responding to them.  Every time you accept that kind of behavior, you invite him to do it again in the future.

You dont need to keep explaining that either, just consistently do it