Gearing up, custody court case number 4

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

2 "temporary" court orders for custody and 1 "permanent" custody order - yes, we're back in court for number 4 early November.

BPD/Nxh will not change his demands for shared parental responsibility of D8 and S6, even though it has not been recommended by court ordered family report writer, court ordered forensic psychologist and his treating psychiatrist. They all recommend I retain sole parental responsibility.

But what's another $20,000, each? He has lots of money to take me back to court and fight be for it anyway. Entitled much?

One Direction Concert is next week, and I have decided to allow him to take the kids to the concert. It starts at 7pm and he hasn't had the kids for more than 4 hours at a time in the last 5 years. His girlfriend will be with them, and he wants to pick them up from school and get them home after the concert.

Part of me wants to say no, but a week later we'll be in court and they'll allow him 8 hours and build up to overnights and weekends anyway. I secretly want the kids to be grumpy and mad and tired so he knows what real parenting is all about. But he's Disney dad, and he'll buy them show bags and whatever they want for tea and let them do whatever way past their 7:30pm bedtime. The kids will be fine for him, and terrible for the rest of the week when I have them.

It sucks sometimes. Actually, this sucks all the time.

So, there will be no resolve without going back to court and here I go again. Hopefully we'll get in front of the judge this time. I am fed up and tired and broke. This cycle is never ending... .

[Forward2free]

2 "temporary" court orders for custody and 1 "permanent" custody order - yes, we're back in court for number 4 early November.

BPD/Nxh will not change his demands for shared parental responsibility of D8 and S6, even though it has not been recommended by court ordered family report writer, court ordered forensic psychologist and his treating psychiatrist. They all recommend I retain sole parental responsibility.

But what's another $20,000, each? He has lots of money to take me back to court and fight be for it anyway. Entitled much?

One Direction Concert is next week, and I have decided to allow him to take the kids to the concert. It starts at 7pm and he hasn't had the kids for more than 4 hours at a time in the last 5 years. His girlfriend will be with them, and he wants to pick them up from school and get them home after the concert.

Part of me wants to say no, but a week later we'll be in court and they'll allow him 8 hours and build up to overnights and weekends anyway. I secretly want the kids to be grumpy and mad and tired so he knows what real parenting is all about. But he's Disney dad, and he'll buy them show bags and whatever they want for tea and let them do whatever way past their 7:30pm bedtime. The kids will be fine for him, and terrible for the rest of the week when I have them.

It sucks sometimes. Actually, this sucks all the time.

So, there will be no resolve without going back to court and here I go again. Hopefully we'll get in front of the judge this time. I am fed up and tired and broke. This cycle is never ending... .

[Matt]

I wonder if you could ask the court to award you legal fees, since this issue has already been decided by the court three times... .

[Forward2free]

I hope so Matt. I haven't heard of anyone winning a request for costs in Melbourne Australia, but hopefully it's me in a few weeks :-)

[Forward2free]

Just received his affidavit for trial.

In summary:  

Says I withheld the children until the commencement of the visit at 12:45pm each week instead of letting the children go with him earlier, even though he was there. Um, it is a court order!

Says I held the kids past the commencement time and he recorded those times as 12:47, 12:52 etc. Complete lies. I have it on a timer and the kids check the clock on the iphone for 12:45.

I have let the kids see him earlier to say hi.

He said I haven't invited him to our daughter's dental appointments since the 3 we attended together. That's right. I didn't need to invite him to any, but I did for his buy in (emotionally and for 50/50 shared costs) before I had her front tooth removed!

He made accusations about me denigrating him and his family and about my sister denigrating him and his family. Lies.

He said I told the kids that new-guy would be their new dad. That is the biggest lie of all. I was constantly telling the kids that they would only ever have one dad and that new-guy wouldn't be their dad. I explained all sorts of things, but never said new-guy would be the one. If you check on the other boards you'll see I had my doubts about him from the start, so why would I do that? He's sick.

There's more, as always, 16 pages in fact. He makes me sick. I wish he would put this amount of effort into getting well and being an effective and reliable parent instead of making crap up.

Hands shaking, heart racing, fast breathing, feeling faint and nauseating.    I hate the court build up so much.

Honestly, it makes me feel like lying too - I am really losing faith in the truth. I get so busy defending his lies that the truth is lost in the middle. If I lie, will that mean the truth will look more likely? I can't believe I am considering it, but quite frankly, I have almost reached my limit. Why do I have to consistently be me and he can be whoever he wants? If the judge thinks we're both telling truth and lies, my truth will be diluted, again. Do you see what I am saying?

[Forward2free]

I left some personal info in my post last week and decided to change my user name as it reflected real life details. (Previously Kormilda)

I am not feeling too great about court in 2 weeks. I need to meet lawyer this Friday to complete my affidavit and I need to put $15k into their bank account. Whatever happens, I will either get away with $15k or need to pay up to $7k more. 

Part of me wants to try and negotiate again and give in to some of BPD/Nxh's demands. I can concede to him having Friday night to Monday morning, as FD said in another post, that minimises contact and I see this as a great thing! I could swap it for the Wed evening dinner that I had offered.

However, I cannot concede to shared parental responsibility. He seems to want to push this regardless and I will not go down that path.

Is it possible that he doesn't see it working either, but he is using it to seal the deal on Friday to Monday?

I am not a game player. I cannot pretend to know what his drivers are. I thought he would take the deal in May this year and be having overnights by now, but I was so wrong on that.

Is it possible that he'll get more time and then not like it because it takes his me-time away? He couldn't deal with the kids in the past, so is this just to punish me after all?

I know there are no definitive answers, but has anyone had someone walk away from an order after years of fighting for it? Something doesn't feel right to me.

[ForeverDad]

Sounds like his inability to negotiate has so far worked out well for the parenting time.

My case:  First were the predictable attempts to settle.  Of course all the real offers were from my side or so it seemed.  We wanted ex to be in counseling and fr me to have alternate weekends.  At some point we even alternate weeks just in the summer was mentioned.  My ex wanted the equal time to continue and if there was to be counseling then we both would be required to get it.  I'm not sure exactly what the other side was agreeing to but it stuck on counseling, she wanted us both in counseling, surely so it would look like we both were the problems, so of course we deadlocked and proceeded into court.

So what did I describe in testimony?  As indicated here, just Friday pm to Monday am.  What will court order?  Who knows, but I was amazed that I offered so much in settlement offers when I wouldn't go nearly so far in testimony.   It's up to the court now.

I guess I'm saying this to demonstrate that we don't need to sacrifice more than we feel is appropriate.  No guarantees, of course.

I wouldn't be too quick to offer him an entire weekend.  Likely you could let him get more time in graduated stages.  First one overnight, then if all goes well, two, etc.

[livednlearned]

Best advice N/BPDx ever gave me while we were married: Don't negotiate with yourself.

You seem certain that court will hear him out and award him extra time. Maybe it's different in Australia, but maybe not? I'm concerned that you are negotiating with yourself, but maybe you know this judge, this court, and the writing is on the wall? N/BPDx writes the nuttiest distortions of reality in his legal documents, and they are brilliantly argued. Very articulate. And totally crazy. Not just to me, but to anyone trying to follow story lines. Are you letting his nuttiness rent space in your head?

Also, the concert. Careful that you do not end up getting punished here. If the kids go, and you give them permission to go, be very clear with them about what you expect in return. Tell them that they will likely be very tired, and that they still need to go to school (if that's the arrangement). Otherwise you will feel the martyr, and that's not fair to them or good for you.

"This concert is important to you, and I have been reluctant to say yes. I am saying yes, but we need to have an agreement. If you are tired for the week and feel angry or upset because you are tired, then the agreement is that you will do xyz (decompress in their rooms, whatever). Homework needs to be done right after school so you can get to bed early.

You don't want to punish the kids for having a good time, and you don't want their good time to be a punishment for you.

[Forward2free]

Best advice N/BPDx ever gave me while we were married: Don't negotiate with yourself.

You seem certain that court will hear him out and award him extra time. Maybe it's different in Australia, but maybe not? I'm concerned that you are negotiating with yourself, but maybe you know this judge, this court, and the writing is on the wall? N/BPDx writes the nuttiest distortions of reality in his legal documents, and they are brilliantly argued. Very articulate. And totally crazy. Not just to me, but to anyone trying to follow story lines. Are you letting his nuttiness rent space in your head?

You're right! But I think over the last 4 years I have also let my lawyers/barristers talk me out of being in front of the judge. I have had 6 different barristers (due to availability for court dates and across property, kids and divorce matters) and they have all been skeptical about the judge presiding over my kids matters. They all advise against being in the court because the decision is taken out of my hands completely and he's a "cowboy judge" and no one can tell how he'll rule. They all seem afraid to leave it up to the judge.

My barrister told me in May that I have gotten 4 years of stability and now that the kids are 4 years older, I should agree to the family report writers recommendations. She thinks I have done really well to get what I have. She also sees the other cases where serious crimes have been committed against children and the court awards them more time than what BPD/Nxh has received. They told me that the family report writer and psychiatrist say that BPD/Nxh is only a threat to women scorned, not his kids. (In their opinion)

I really want to trust in the court to make the right decision though. I just think the legal system is letting me down and I have not had my day in court and I am believing less in their abilities to stand up for the kids. Negotiating is motivated by my fear of BPD/Nxh getting more time with the kids and of spending money I don't have. I don't think the legal system here is as advanced about understanding personality disorders and the potential long and short term risks to the children involved.

I am worried about the money and it makes me feel sick thinking I will have spent $130,000 by this time in 2 weeks, and potentially $7k more. Is it about the money? No. But I just cry for all the holidays we haven't had and won't have, the house we don't live in, the car we don't drive, the school the kids don't go to, the food we don't eat, the extra-curricular events the kids can't do and the massages I can't afford. Sometimes it's just overwhelming.

Also, the concert. Careful that you do not end up getting punished here. If the kids go, and you give them permission to go, be very clear with them about what you expect in return. Tell them that they will likely be very tired, and that they still need to go to school (if that's the arrangement). Otherwise you will feel the martyr, and that's not fair to them or good for you.

"This concert is important to you, and I have been reluctant to say yes. I am saying yes, but we need to have an agreement. If you are tired for the week and feel angry or upset because you are tired, then the agreement is that you will do xyz (decompress in their rooms, whatever). Homework needs to be done right after school so you can get to bed early.

You don't want to punish the kids for having a good time, and you don't want their good time to be a punishment for you.

I really like your suggestion to have the kids support their choice to attend the concert and to hold them accountable to it. In my mind I was ready to blame BPD/Nxh when they were tired and grumpy, but they are old enough to stand by their choices too. S6 doesn't want to go to the concert and would happily sit it out, but I think BPD/Nxh would turn that into something against me so I need to encourage him to go with his sister.

I wouldn't be too quick to offer him an entire weekend.  Likely you could let him get more time in graduated stages.  First one overnight, then if all goes well, two, etc.

Agreed. I think the build up to one over night is about 6 months after extending visits to 8 hours every second weekend, then overnight every second weekend, then 2 nights every second weekend after that. I need to get out all of the paperwork and go through it in detail again.

After the build up period, it was meant to be after school Friday through to 6pm on Sunday night every second weekend, so that he'd only have 2 nights in a row. He wants the 3rd night, hence taking me back to court. I don't think he'd accept the 3 nights and not go to court anyway. He has decided he deserves shared custody and I don't think he'll give up his perceived entitlement without a fight.

You're right that I was willing to give more in settlement/negotiation, in testimony I am going to fight for status quo - 4 hours every second week as we do now, and he can fight for more than that.

[Forward2free]

One Direction concert is tonight so I used a Sharpie and marked my phone number onto the kids legs. If they are separated from BPD/Nxh tonight, the police can call me directly. I will be nervous from school pick up at 3:30pm until after they are returned home to me. My sister will be with me to receive the children from BPD/Nxh so that I can limit our interactions and he will not have to enter my property.

I signed up my affidavit for court next week and my lawyer wont submit it until tomorrow in case we need to add info about any dramas from tonight. I hope and pray this won't be necessary, but at least there is an option to capture the crazy if it occurs.

I burst into tears when I left her office today. I am so tired of being brave and pretending to be okay about the money when it cuts so deep emotionally and money-wise.

I can't believe that I have had to spend so much money and even though I have an request order for costs to be awarded for me, it is unlikely that it will be granted according to my lawyers.

It is so draining. It's not my dad's fault, but he told me that I'd have my house substantially paid off if it wasn't for BPD/Nxh being stupid. I have to explain often that it's a mental condition that's driving BPD/Nxh and no amount of rationalising will help him see this differently. There is no such thing as getting out of this the simple way.

My barrister is shocked that BPD/Nxh is asking for shared parental responsibility and everything else was agreeable to the recommendation by the Family Report Writer. It does make BPD/Nxh look unstable which is a good thing at least.

Sigh. This round is "almost" over... .

LnL - thank you for helping me articulate my position to the lawyer. I told her that I feel like I am negotiating with myself and BPD/Nxh is just making irrational demands and not being reasonable. I ended up with a 3 page affidavit and will leave the details for court. Turns out she agreed that BPD/Nxh was trying to make me defend myself from wild accusations that were previously dealt with and my position was made stronger by not engaging and just sticking to the reasons why BPD/Nxh cannot share parenting and cannot be trusted.

[Forward2free]

Concert came and went without a hitch.

He collected them at 3:30pm and had D8 call me at 5:30 because "mum probably misses you". D8 told me BPD/Nxh's girlfriend bought her a 1D tshirt and S6 a hat and I think I was on speakerphone anyway, but I shared in her joy, as I would if I wasn't on speakerphone too.

BPD/Nxh cooked them dinner (meat and veg in a box) and he texted me at 8:30pm to say it hadn't started yet and D8 texted me at 9. I wrote back that they could text me when they leave, and they did at 11:30pm, home just after midnight.

He drove past my driveway and parked around the corner, I think out of sight of the security cameras. GF was in the car, kids ran across the road to me and my sister and gave me enourmous hugs. They were tired and happy. S6 had fallen asleep in the concert and on the way home.

My sister grabbed the bags from the car and BPD/Nxh called out to me "Thanks Forward2Free", I said "no problems" and they left.

Surreal. He was on his best behaviour, but I know that court is next Wed and it's playing on my mind that his too nice act could be just for show.

I hate his smooth and generous side almost as much as his evil and manipulative side, or are they one in the same?

[livednlearned]

What a relief! I'm so glad it went ok. I was so relieved to read that everything went ok.

Maybe your ex is like this when the narcissistic supply is flowing? He provided an amazing experience for the kids, so his narcissism meter was full all the way to the top. Makes it so he can tap into his best performance.

Hope things go as well for you next Wed 

[Forward2free]

Thanks LnL, I wish he would remain in father-of-the-year role play!

Court tomorrow and my barrister will try and settle without having to let judge make the decision. BPD/Nxh has a new barrister who has heard of his reputation and told my barrister she is not going to take his nonsense and wants to get it resolved too.

I stripped back my offer to exactly the family report writers recommendation and not a minute more. I told my barrister that I am not prepared to negotiate with myself and start with my best offer. She completely agreed and said it was very smart and strategic. Thanks guys!

If we resolve out of court I can't ask for a costs order. Hopefully it'll settle tomorrow and I'll only spend $10k instead of $20k.

I was looking through some paperwork and I get $1.30 per child per day child support... .

I really hope there is a silver lining to all this some day!

[livednlearned]

I really hope there is a silver lining to all this some day!

The silver lining is there, but it certainly isn't a financial silver lining.



Will be thinking about you tomorrow, hoping all goes well.

[ForeverDad]

I'm paying about $20 per child per day, slightly below the calculated amount, and that's with equal time - and ex credited with minimum wage.

Remember, if he crows, "See how smoothly that event went, let's move full steam ahead!" be sure the court is reminded that one successful event does not create a whole new pattern.  Frankly, the court ought to consider that any improvement in his behavior over the last couple years could very well be largely due to the reduced contact.  Distance does make a difference.  These acting-out PD behaviors are generally worse the closer a person is or out of the public eye.

Hmm, did he know this court date when he got the tickets?  If so, then he could very well have planned this as part of a strategy to look good just before the hearing.  My ex often would try to make me look worse than her by making a new allegation a week or so before a court appearance.

[Forward2free]

I RETAINED SOLE PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITY and residence    It was a battle and he didn't want to give it up, but both barristers wanted to settle in a day and not go in front of the random and unpredictable judge, and they worked hard (argued often in the corridor) to ensure we both walked away with a reasonable deal.

They said that an indication of a good court outcome is both parties feeling less than satisfactory. That generally means it was about right... .mmm

After a build up from 8 hours, to overnight over 6 months, he'll have the kids from after school on Friday until 7pm Sunday alternate weekends.

Alternate Wednesday after school until 7pm.

2 weeks holidays per year from 2015. He can take 2 consecutive weeks at Christmas in alternate years which will drive me batty being without them for that long and fretting about how they are, but I got an amazing deal aside from 14 nights every 2 years. Sigh.

3pm Christmas Eve until 3pm Christmas Day in one year and in the alternate year, 3pm Christmas Day until 3pm day after from 2014.

This year, 9am until 5pm Christmas Day. I offered 8am so he could do presents before breakfast in pjamas but he asked for 10am-6pm. I told him I gave him lunch and breakfast and I needed them home for dinner with my family and he consented to 9-5. I think he wanted to sleep in... .Clearly very ready for parenting.

Phone calls and Skype twice per week, he instigates call to them on my time.

I got the passports signed and can travel overseas with 60 days notice. If he wanted to travel overseas, I need to give permission, or not, depending on what he wants to do and how old the kids are. I hope he doesn't ask me... .There is nothing in the order about him travelling overseas but he could take me back to court.

He agreed to see his treating psychiatrist for a further 6 months and has been told he doesn't need to see him anymore. He's doing so well   The quality of the help is only matched by the quality of the information shared.

After 2 years he can seek mediation to extend the alternate weekend visit to include Sunday nights until Monday morning.

And I think that's it. Done in a day so my bill will be less than $10,000 instead of the $20,000 I'd been quoted. Such a blessing! This should be it for me for court. I obviously won't believe it until the kids are over 18 however. I know that his only way to get at me is to bring me to court and he sure does seem to take pleasure from dragging me through unnecessary litigation. He did not get anything more than what we had agreed on in May of this year and it cost us both 10k more for nothing.

I wish I felt something about all of this but I just feel neutral about it all. I had accepted earlier this year that an extension of time was inevitable and I was able to work with the family report writer to negotiate reasonable terms and they have now been ordered.

First extended visit is this Sunday and the kids are really excited about all the cool things they can do with more time. I'm happy for them. I am also anxious that the times won't always be good and I have no control about what or when they will see the other side of their dad. I think I have been lucky to limit the parenting times, before school and putting them to bed the night before school. This should mean that they have plenty of time to play and hang out and have fun and not put extra pressure on BPD/Nxh.

My barrister was floored that BPD/Nxh didn't ask for more time and consented to me keeping sole parental responsibility so easily. Is it possible that BPD/Nxh doesn't think he can do it either? So weird.

I am not looking forward to having extra time without my kids. I love them so much and hate the thought of putting them in an environment that was scary and unpredictable for me as an adult. I hope his girlfriend is around with them and that she'll act if there is ever a need to step in.