Another Conversation... little reaction, other drama

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Yesterday, I confronted my BPDx about having her paramour (aka Piece of S__, or

POS" on her Skype. I found this on the computer since we use the same login (I have secretly password protected the alternate login, which used to be hers, but she forgot the password, hence we started using the main one two years ago) and I was trying to quit the app.

Last night, after she brought our son back from the party and we were getting him ready for bed, she said, "you know that Skype thing, I want you to know that I would never bring someone back to the house [strange, since I never accused her of that!], and that I wouldn't skype him from that computer." This was the computer I bought her to fulfill her dream of going back to school a few years ago. Of course, finding this yesterday insulted me to no end. She said, "it must be that I added him because I have it on my phone [this was my alternate theory, plausible, but no matter]. I told her that just when I was getting better, I find something that triggers me (the text from two weeks ago, him calling our dinner table while we were eating with our kids, the Skype thing... .I thought about calling him, actually, but I'd rather do it in person... .something I told her I'd better never meet!). And that it's living betrayal and pain all over again.

She just looked at me, so I did my verbal blitzkrieg: "You cause pain to everyone close to you, we trigger it due to being close, but the pain comes from you. Regardless of the psychological aspects of it, which I told you I now understand very well, what you did was WRONG, and what you are doing is wrong, and morally bad. You hurt everyone. Who are you close to? Which of your siblings can you sit down with and confide in? Your close friends, though briefly here years ago, all live far away. Your best friend from hs lives a couple of miles away and when do you ever see or talk to her unless you need something? I got the most of your pain that anyone will ever get." Here, she said, "why do you say that?" I replied, "because you will never have kids with anyone again, though I suppose you might be with some guy with and have stepkids later when you are done with this teenage romance behavior [I don't recall using that exact phrase, but it was something similar]." Later on, you will cause pain to them as they become more individuals and develop their identities. I just hope I'm around to lovingly guide them and guard their hears, and use some communications tools I have learned in a loving manner." I also said (thanks to conversations here), "when you know you have something wrong with you, but you don't do anything about it yet continue to cause pain to people around you, that is a moral CHOICE you made, and it is wrong. You've done wrong things, lacking wisdom, and you are continuing to do bad things."

At this point, S3 was clowning around and made us both laugh. BPDx, however, just kind of collapsed on the bed and lay there. D1 awoke, and I grabbed her and put her on the bed, saying, "go cuddle with mommy, she needs it," at which point S3 started attacking her playfully so the moment ended. I retreated to my "office" and let her put D1 to bed for a change.

D1 kept X up a lot at night, having taken the non-typical evening nap, and my X doesn't do well on no sleep, unlike me. I took care of both the kids this morning and X lay on the couch while I took care of them, only getting up at the last minute as I got them ready for church.

She called me when I was there and said that a friend of hers was suicidal, admitted to cutting himself, so she took off to another town to go help him, having called the cops in the meantime. She came back later and explained it, and we both said at the same time, "his boyfriend broke up with him." Could see that coming. He may not be BPD, but he, too alters his appearence and constatly posts selfies on FB for validation. I like the guy, but it was obvious to me from the moment I met him that something was going on inside of him. He's the type of person that doesn't really look you in the eye when you talk to him. I am nothing but friendly, like a big, muscular puppy, but after years of knowing him, he still has this "look"... .I took the opportunity for another one-sided conversation, "that;s the guy he hasn't even known long. It sucks when you look for validation in another person to complete yourself due to a poor self-image or lack of coherent, strong identity. We both know he didn't need to do that, but you go help your friend, I'll watch the kids, no problem."

She went to work (told me days ago she was going out in the afternoon for a few hours), but called me later to say that she went back to the other town since they released him from observation (suicide watch, I guess).

So, no drama coming from her, but plenty out there in the aether. Now, back to your regularly scheduled healing, and thanks for listening.

TuRkIsH 

[Turkish]

Yesterday, I confronted my BPDx about having her paramour (aka Piece of S__, or

POS" on her Skype. I found this on the computer since we use the same login (I have secretly password protected the alternate login, which used to be hers, but she forgot the password, hence we started using the main one two years ago) and I was trying to quit the app.

Last night, after she brought our son back from the party and we were getting him ready for bed, she said, "you know that Skype thing, I want you to know that I would never bring someone back to the house [strange, since I never accused her of that!], and that I wouldn't skype him from that computer." This was the computer I bought her to fulfill her dream of going back to school a few years ago. Of course, finding this yesterday insulted me to no end. She said, "it must be that I added him because I have it on my phone [this was my alternate theory, plausible, but no matter]. I told her that just when I was getting better, I find something that triggers me (the text from two weeks ago, him calling our dinner table while we were eating with our kids, the Skype thing... .I thought about calling him, actually, but I'd rather do it in person... .something I told her I'd better never meet!). And that it's living betrayal and pain all over again.

She just looked at me, so I did my verbal blitzkrieg: "You cause pain to everyone close to you, we trigger it due to being close, but the pain comes from you. Regardless of the psychological aspects of it, which I told you I now understand very well, what you did was WRONG, and what you are doing is wrong, and morally bad. You hurt everyone. Who are you close to? Which of your siblings can you sit down with and confide in? Your close friends, though briefly here years ago, all live far away. Your best friend from hs lives a couple of miles away and when do you ever see or talk to her unless you need something? I got the most of your pain that anyone will ever get." Here, she said, "why do you say that?" I replied, "because you will never have kids with anyone again, though I suppose you might be with some guy with and have stepkids later when you are done with this teenage romance behavior [I don't recall using that exact phrase, but it was something similar]." Later on, you will cause pain to them as they become more individuals and develop their identities. I just hope I'm around to lovingly guide them and guard their hears, and use some communications tools I have learned in a loving manner." I also said (thanks to conversations here), "when you know you have something wrong with you, but you don't do anything about it yet continue to cause pain to people around you, that is a moral CHOICE you made, and it is wrong. You've done wrong things, lacking wisdom, and you are continuing to do bad things."

At this point, S3 was clowning around and made us both laugh. BPDx, however, just kind of collapsed on the bed and lay there. D1 awoke, and I grabbed her and put her on the bed, saying, "go cuddle with mommy, she needs it," at which point S3 started attacking her playfully so the moment ended. I retreated to my "office" and let her put D1 to bed for a change.

D1 kept X up a lot at night, having taken the non-typical evening nap, and my X doesn't do well on no sleep, unlike me. I took care of both the kids this morning and X lay on the couch while I took care of them, only getting up at the last minute as I got them ready for church.

She called me when I was there and said that a friend of hers was suicidal, admitted to cutting himself, so she took off to another town to go help him, having called the cops in the meantime. She came back later and explained it, and we both said at the same time, "his boyfriend broke up with him." Could see that coming. He may not be BPD, but he, too alters his appearence and constatly posts selfies on FB for validation. I like the guy, but it was obvious to me from the moment I met him that something was going on inside of him. He's the type of person that doesn't really look you in the eye when you talk to him. I am nothing but friendly, like a big, muscular puppy, but after years of knowing him, he still has this "look"... .I took the opportunity for another one-sided conversation, "that;s the guy he hasn't even known long. It sucks when you look for validation in another person to complete yourself due to a poor self-image or lack of coherent, strong identity. We both know he didn't need to do that, but you go help your friend, I'll watch the kids, no problem."

She went to work (told me days ago she was going out in the afternoon for a few hours), but called me later to say that she went back to the other town since they released him from observation (suicide watch, I guess).

So, no drama coming from her, but plenty out there in the aether. Now, back to your regularly scheduled healing, and thanks for listening.

TuRkIsH 

[LivingLearning]

Hey,

    I will say, your report sounded like maybe you could get some help.

At one point you said "I better not meet him" in regard to your ex's partner. That to me seems like a subtle or not subtle physical threat. I don't like it when people threaten me, and I didn't like reading of you saying that.

   Perhaps I don't understand something, but it seems reasonable to me that her skype was transferred to her computer. And that perhaps she was being sincere.

    It also may be that I don't understand something and you could help me understand with more explanation. I know how frustrating it can be to have people just not get it!

[Turkish]

Hey,

    I will say, your report sounded like maybe you could get some help.

At one point you said "I better not meet him" in regard to your ex's partner. That to me seems like a subtle or not subtle physical threat. I don't like it when people threaten me, and I didn't like reading of you saying that.

   Perhaps I don't understand something, but it seems reasonable to me that her skype was transferred to her computer. And that perhaps she was being sincere.

    It also may be that I don't understand something and you could help me understand with more explanation. I know how frustrating it can be to have people just not get it!

She told me something he said regarding our son a few months ago,  and also based on his background she told me about,  sounded like a major red flag. I  told her I'm not stupid enough to go to jail,  but that she better watch if she ever introduces him to our kids. I  related what she told me to two of her brothers and they agreed it was weird.  take that as you will. I  don't care about me,  all's unfair I'm love and war and I lost,  but with our kids? CPS,  cops,  whatever if I sense anything untoward regarding them.

[LivingLearning]

What was it?

I can totally understand if someone threatened  a son of mine I'd be pretty intensely protective!

I'd want to make sure they are safe

[Turkish]

What was it?

I can totally understand if someone threatened  a son of mine I'd be pretty intensely protective!

I'd want to make sure they are safe

Subtle... . that he wanted to meet our son ( not daughter)?  he was in  foster care,  so was I,  and we hung it with a lot of other adoptees  when I  was a  kid,  and there were whole hosts of problems and personality disorders in the mix,  far higher than the general population.  at the very least,  some type of attachment disorder ( which I showed signs of early on,  too).  given her track record of men ( besides me),  get judgement of character is lacking.  the one before me stole her car,  she had to kick him out and get a restraining order.  he later ended up in the country jail.  The one before that sounded like a  mostly harmless narcissist.  the guy has the hall to call her when we are having dinner with our children?  all sorts of lack of boundaries there ( other than the obvious big one).  I'm not one of those paranoid " everyone's a  molester"  types,  though  I've experienced enough if it on the edges of my life to know that it's far more prevalent than most people want to think about,  but things click into place when looking at a big picture.

[Ironmanrises]

Turkish,

The simple fact that she said "why would you say that?" and then not even going more in depth with you shows the lack of self reflection. Someone able to self reflect would have asked you, "I don't understand what you mean by that, can you please clarify why you feel like that, etc", as you clearly see, her self reflection is severely limited. I totally understand you telling her all of that, you needed to let it out. That young douche aka piece of ___ will either leave her and/or will encounter the other side of your ex. Either way, destruction. Hopefully, you will have been able to distance yourself enough to be clear of the blast zone. Hang in there my friend.

[LivingLearning]

I will say Turkish,

Your post sounds abusive to me, as I reread it. And threatening. I ask you to seek therapy and get help. I don't know your situation and I could be wrong, and I offer that.

[Lady31]

Seriously?  ABUSIVE?  

The man is screwing Turkish's wife.  He saw the Skype ID on the comp he bought his wife.  She is LIVING in their home with their kids and continuing this relationship right in front of his face.  (And regardless if the ID was from her phone and she wasn't using the comp Turkish bought her to carry on her affair I think changes NOTHING - the woman is still doing this.)  

Frankly I think from reading Turkish's different posts that he is too passive - definitely NOT abusive in any way.  She is getting away with murder.  I'm glad to hear even the slightest bit of anger shining through and releasing for him.  He needs it and deserves it.

And to be even more frank - if I was a man I would probably kick the crap out of some guy screwing my wife.  Especially knowing she was living with me and my kids. Uh, WHAT?  

The thing to be careful of though for Turkish I think is realizing that a lot of the anger he is feeling should be directed toward his wife as well, and not JUST the guy - even though the other guy deserves a good healthy dose of it.

Regarding the kids - I think it is a real concern with the type of men she chooses and something to keep a close eye on.  (Just don't get paranoid thinking things are happening that aren't.)  I don't think it's wrong to express the protective feelings you feel for your kids.  If I met a man who didn't I wouldn't think much of him as a father.

I think the only therapy Turkish needs to seek is to get help in standing up to her more and not allow her to get away with any the crap she is pulling.

[KateCat]

Turkish,

The course that this situation is taking makes me tend to agree with both LivingLearning and Lady31. It's getting dangerous and increasingly unpredictable. Naturally so.

Is there a way for your wife to move out (completely) within the week? Or at least by the end of the month?

[Turkish]

Turkish,

The course that this situation is taking makes me tend to agree with both LivingLearning and Lady31. It's getting dangerous and increasingly unpredictable. Naturally so.

Is there a way for your wife to move out (completely) within the week? Or at least by the end of the month?

I'm sorry that LL was triggered by what I wrote, and that you feel that it is abusive. We only had one argument since this whole thing came out three months ago. We get along fine, and she is the one who gets angry (though not at me since I don't trigger her due to her not being emotionally tied to me as a lover anymore). She is the one who was always verbally abusive, and even hit me once (we weren't even arguing, I didn't do something she wanted me to do and she walked behind me and whacked me), along with incidents of her throwing things (not at me, but making a mess... .two major incidents of this).

She being around me keeps HER safe now, since I provide the emotional stability of a safe home. We had a short decent talk last night after she got back from checking on her suicidal friend. She was a little frustrated this morning... .but at the kids (which is typical), but then just called me to tell about someone knocking on the door while she was getting ready for work. Friendly, wished me a good day. Our home was robbed last week, so we are understandably paranoid. Her judgement of people is suspect, too, as her last boyfriend ended up stealing her car and ended up in jail later for something else. I think she will keep her life split until she finds someone more mature, but the lack of well developed empathy means her judgement is flawed. I have every right to call that out (I have... .and she's admitted it in a way to me, too) due to our children and their safety.

As for the anger, what place is there to vent if not here? My therapist was pleased that I finally showed some form of anger at the injustice of the situation just last week after two months of going to him. Pretty much everyone echos what Lady31 said above, that I am being overly patient and kind. Short of evicting her, I can't force her out. If I never say anything, her behavior will get more "teen-like." I had to put down boundaries last month about her going out clubbing (or whatever) abandoning the kids with me. She she stopped that, and even appreciated that I told her that (like a father). If she doesn't like me being her Jimney Cricket, then it will encourage her to leave faster so we can make things the new normal for the kids. Because living in a fake relationship as we are now hurts them just a little bit more every day she is there (I told her this, too... .she kind of gets it, but she is mirroring her own parents' dysfunction because that is "normal" to her and the way she grew up).

My T told me that being kind is showing love (and believe me, I've been nothing but, except for a few short conversations where I don't even raise my voice), but that I have every right to call her out on her behavior. I've never been abusive to her (she used to joke that she was the "man" and I was the "woman" in the relationship because she is the aggresive one). If calling her out on her bad behaviors and stating things she has even said to me about her self (some of the above she has admitted) and that is viewed as being "abusive" then by keeping our mouths shut, we are all enablers of the abuse meted out upon us.

[Ironmanrises]

Your words and anger and frustration are all heard, friend. The anger and frustration that you are experiencing is justifiable and the very fact that she is still living with you puts you in no mans land, literally. You can't make any move forward or backward without running into her behavior. And that isn't fair to you. You can't even properly heal as her presence is inhibiting that very aspect that you need, to heal.

[KateCat]

I agree that your anger and frustration are completely justified. What I don't think you--or any man in a like position--can do is continue on safely in this way.

You need an end date for this limbo.

[Waifed]

I will say Turkish,

Your post sounds abusive to me, as I reread it. And threatening. I ask you to seek therapy and get help. I don't know your situation and I could be wrong, and I offer that.

REALLY?  I don't think you did or said anything wrong Turkish

[KE151]

To me Turkish sounds like he has a healthy dose of good old fashioned masculine anger. Part of the grieving process, right?

And, I agree with katecat, the best before date of Turkish's r/s with the ex is long gone.

I admit I don't know your situation in detail, but I think a lot of your current energy should be directed towards throwing her cheating b••t out of the house.

[KateCat]

To me, Turkish, it's what you refer to above as your "verbal blitzkrieg." That is where I see danger.

A woman not mentally ill would not stick around for more. But she is lingering, and leaving the door wide open for you to step into a role of cruelty that is not worthy of your strength as a man and as a father. Pulling the plug quickly on this is kinder to both of you . . . and to the kids, as you have wisely noted.

I think you're doing fine, but you're in just a little peril right at this moment.

[musicfan42]

I think that you seem like a really good parent Turkish. You write very affectionately about your children here and that's heart-warming to read. Focus your energies on your two beautiful children as opposed to your ex. Kick your ex out of the house and then focus on establishing a stable home for your children.

I know that this situation must be tough for you to navigate so feel free to post here whenever you feel frustrated... that's what we're here for It's good that you're seeking support