I feel so ashamed about my feelings

[damage control]

DC, I agree with P+C, you ex is toying with you, and this is abuse. 

It really seems like you're at a point where your focus and priority must be getting out of this house.  I know you have considerations re your job etc, but your well-being must come first.  Without that, nothing else will matter.  You're probably feeling vulnerable and hurting right now, which can be a difficult time to reach out for help, but the longer you stay in this toxic house, the worse you might feel.

If we can help from this board, not just with empathy but with problem-solving, please let us know.

Thank you RK

Getting out of here in some shape, way or form is essential ... .the biggest problem/s with that are money and leaving the dog while I look at places ... she will bark while I am gone because she is still in cling mode and I cannot be certain that the HM's won't hurt her while I am not here.

I have a little money and I am holding on to what I have but I am missing work now and won't get as much next week as I have been getting.

Sometimes things are just impossible and I cannot be at work, protect my dog AND find a new place ... throw that in the mix with the stuff going on in my head with the ex and it's just overwhelming.

[damage control]

As for the kiss on the cheek ... it didn't feel nice. I hated it. It literalised exactly where he and I are at right now ... it personified the full stop that he has written upon our 'relationship'. It ends right here ... do not start a new sentence or try to write any more ... this is the end of the line ... all you deserve/will get from me. Horrible feeling.

Yeah, exactly. After he ended our romantic/sexual r/s my ex wanted to keep up an intense email correspondence about other things.  Immediately, the salutations went from "good morning my love," to "Hey P & C."

When we'd see each other in person, he'd hug me coming & going.  Cursory friends hugs.  I hated that.  Eventually I think my body language made that clear, because we don't do that anymore.

Exactly the same here.

Email/texting went from "Hello lover" ... to "Hi DC" ... he slipped up a week or so ago and called me 'm'dear ... he has done that a couple of times ... but the new salutation hurts every single time.

[damage control]

For what it's worth, I just wrote my ex, with whom I've had this kind of sweetly abusive pick-me-up-put-me-down dynamic for 18 months now, & said I'm still in (for a close r/s) if he can commit to sustaining what he starts with me, whether it's a conversation or a level of closeness.  If not, we have to remain at a much more superficial (and therefore not very interesting to either of us) level.  I can't keep opening up to him & then turning around to find that he's gone again.

I have about a 1% hope that he can respond constructively to this, and a 99% expectation that it means the r/s is over for all intents & purposes.  But I'd rather that than continue as we have been.  You have to be willing to lose the r/s to save it ... .you can't keep giving him everything you have to offer on exactly his messed up terms, or the terms will be forever hurtful.

These things do not seem to grow or evolve in a good way.  They seem to get entrenched in these subtly abusive, withholding, control-oriented dynamics.

Wow P+C ... that is a big move.

How did he take it?

Can you trust him to meet your stated needs?

Things do not grow and evolve when only one person is 'in' the RS ... especially if the other person is not only happy with the status quo, but has manufactured it.

[damage control]

Damagecontrol,

Disengaging is the hardest part especially when you're right at the cusp of leaving but you must. Cry and know that it's OK to feel what you're feeling. There's nothing weird, stupid, crazy about that. It's human nature. We all unfortuantely for one reason or another, let someone in our lives who's emotionally immature and just toxic to anyone they are with, our mistakes but we can get better.

Again, don't be ashamed. It's OK and I'm saying that because I am hard on myself ALL THE TIME about missing my BPDex, but I understand the dynamic we had, the relationship was intense therefore I had intense emotions for her and that's ok. In time they slowly disminish. I wish you the best. Keep posting! vent. vent vent vent but find strength to get out!.

I to have these intense feelings - most of all intense bewilderment - I just cannot understand how something that was so warm and ... well, intense, was so easily discarded by him or how it can be replaced ... why don't I get to replace? Why can't I find that with the next person I happen to meet?

The feelings will diminish. I know this. It makes me sad that they will ... that they have to ... that there is no choice.

[damage control]

It's like he's not abusing you because he's not actively being horrible. But he is. Because he's making you feel like this.

i grew up in a family that constantly said 'you make me feel this' 'you make me feel that' etc... . took me a long time to learn that emotions come from inside us, not outside.  nobody can make us feel an emotion, we manufacture them ourselves.  emotions come from our thoughts.  our thoughts come from our interpretations of events. i've found it to be a hard habit to break ~ even now, i can still slip back into that kind of thinking.

this article is really excellent ~ Ten Beliefs That Can Get You Stuck - Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder

https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/10_beliefs.pdf

Although our emotions are our own. It seems simplistic to state that nobody can affect how we feel ... I think we affect each other ever single day and, by letting somebody close, we give them power to have an effect on us. This is the nature of intimacy and close relationships - this is the risk that we take each time we open our hearts to another.

Yes, our feelings and thoughts come from our interpretation of events but this is not and endless spectrum ... we cannot choose to interpret things completely differently ... things are said/done ... some of these things will impact upon our emotions ... .re-framing them will not always alter what we feel ... nor should it.

[damage control]

the only way to sustain the r/s and the reason why we weren't fighting those last few weeks was because i pushed my emotions aside waiting to see if this person would come around. and damage control, maybe this is a bit of what you are feeling? because your ex seems to act super nice as long as you act against your true emotions... ."acting" as if you are as narcissistic as he? not sure if it's the same for you but this is how i felt.

I can relate a little Goldy ... .I do push my emotions down ... but not entirely. He and I have had a few (very short) talks about 'what happened' ... and apart from the few days after our split - when he was quite nasty - full engulfment fear had kicked in - he has always been 'nice' ... admittedly, those few days were when my emotions were completely amped up and he could not or would not deal.

[damage control]

DC, it does sound like he's stringing you along, getting you to feel like he is there when he's not really there. The same pattern he's had with others. You need more than that! Once you're past the worst of the detachment, if you let go, you will feel much better.

He told you he is different people at different times, depending on the situation. This raises many red flags. Who is he, really? How can you have a relationship with him when you're not able to be sure who he is? It even makes you wonder about yourself.

What is constant, from reading your posts, is you've been in pain.

P&C is right, this is abuse and manipulation. At what point, when we allow this to continue, are we doing more than playing a role and cross over into being abusive to ourselves? Subtleties add up. The unspoken can hurt just as much as the yelled.

Shame can be turned into healing.   You can use those feelings to grow.      

He has claimed that there are more than '1 of him', but, he most recently said that he is a different person now than when he and I met.

At some point yes ... it is self-abuse. I had this realisation weeks ago but ... I got sucked back in slowly (but was managing it at least a little) ... this extreme situation with the HM's threw us together and spending those complete days/nights together just took over ... everything came flooding back ...

[damage control]

DC

I feel your pain. I briefly got sucked back in the first time I left the ex. The great night followed by painful indifference was enough for me to know that this woman didn't care about anyone but herself. PwBPD do not care about anyone but themselves. Period. The End.

Your ex knows what you are feeling. Borderlines can read you by just looking at your facial expressions. He doesn't need to ask. In some sick way he just wanted you to admit that you miss him. He currently has the best of both worlds. Of course he wants to maintain contact. You are a much better person than him. You are no ones back up plan. He has you at arms length in case this trip doesn't work out. He is texting you to maintain control over you. What happens if his weekend is a "success"?  He will turn cold on you. Don't give him the opportunity.

Get the Hell out of there. Do it for yourself. It hurts beyond belief but you are inflicting pain on yourself by staying. You have pain and hurt awaiting you either way but why not deal with it while you are healing.

Damage, we are here for you no matter what you choose. We will be with you as long as it takes to heal. I will be thinking about you.  

Hey Waifed.

I don't think that I am his backup in case the trip doesn't work out ... he has been seeing this woman (if she is there with him) since the day he dumped me. it's not about backup ... in fact, I am pretty sure that he is stringing a couple of other women along online ... they are backup ... me? Well ... I am in a different category. With me he can 'be himself', not have to work hard with all the seduction etc and use me for emotional support. Well, he did intervene the other night with the crazy HM's and stick up for me/get me away from a situation that was both volatile and threatening to me so, it isn't entirely one-way.

What is one-way is that he has turned away from the idea of sexual intimacy, he has (as P+C and yourself pointed out) shown me over and over that he has moved on to other women ...

He started texting me asking if am doing OK while I was writing this. We sent a few back and forth and the timing/sudden cut off makes me think that he is most probably with my replacement ... .and probably hiding me from her ... she probably thinks I am just a housemate of his ... because she will know all about the drama that is going on ... he talks about this all non-stop.

I want out of here but want isn't enough ... there are things that need to be done and lack of time/money/ability is proving to be a massive set of hurdles.

[free-n-clear]

   Damage Control, if you have no work or family commitments to keep you where you are, leaving town is probably the best way to make a clean break and move on. It's hard to stay strong when you're still having contact, the temptation to "give it one more try" is pretty strong. pwBPD don't change, if things seem to be better it's only because they are trying to keep you around for when they need something from you. Wishing you strength and peace of mind, and a wonderful Christmas & New Year.  

[damage control]

  Damage Control, if you have no work or family commitments to keep you where you are, leaving town is probably the best way to make a clean break and move on. It's hard to stay strong when you're still having contact, the temptation to "give it one more try" is pretty strong. pwBPD don't change, if things seem to be better it's only because they are trying to keep you around for when they need something from you. Wishing you strength and peace of mind, and a wonderful Christmas & New Year.  

Thanks for the well-wishes free n clear.

The main reason for staying here is work ... I have only been at my job about 6 weeks and it is a good job ... going home ... not so easy to find work, let alone something interesting.

I don't see this ending up or becoming a 'try it one more time' ... he has lost his 'lust' for me ... .it's gone ... he says it happens to him ... and it has certainly happened with me ... I am good for intimacy, friendship, companionship etc ... .I may even be his best friend right now - I have been for the past year and we are closer now that we see each other every day ... but I don't see him ever wanting to get back with me in a sexual capacity ... so, no real danger there I don't think.

[free-n-clear]

I may even be his best friend right now - I have been for the past year 

DC, The danger isn't in him maybe wanting to get back with you in a sexual capacity some day, it's in him holding you back from getting on with your life. I tried the "friends" thing for a while (at her request) after I ended our r/s, partly because we had been friends for a long time before we began our r/s. I found that my special "best friend" status simply meant that I still copped the rages, lies and mind games, so she could vent on me and show her best side to everyone else. It didn't last long. I still run in to her from time to time, and I'm civil and friendly, but that's as far as it goes.

[Iwalk-Heruns]

DC

I feel your pain. I briefly got sucked back in the first time I left the ex. The great night followed by painful indifference was enough for me to know that this woman didn't care about anyone but herself. PwBPD do not care about anyone but themselves. Period. The End.

Your ex knows what you are feeling. Borderlines can read you by just looking at your facial expressions. He doesn't need to ask. In some sick way he just wanted you to admit that you miss him. He currently has the best of both worlds. Of course he wants to maintain contact. You are a much better person than him. You are no ones back up plan. He has you at arms length in case this trip doesn't work out. He is texting you to maintain control over you. What happens if his weekend is a "success"?  He will turn cold on you. Don't give him the opportunity.

Get the Hell out of there. Do it for yourself. It hurts beyond belief but you are inflicting pain on yourself by staying. You have pain and hurt awaiting you either way but why not deal with it while you are healing.

Damage, we are here for you no matter what you choose. We will be with you as long as it takes to heal. I will be thinking about you.  

Hey Waifed.

I don't think that I am his backup in case the trip doesn't work out ... he has been seeing this woman (if she is there with him) since the day he dumped me. it's not about backup ... in fact, I am pretty sure that he is stringing a couple of other women along online ... they are backup ... me? Well ... I am in a different category. With me he can 'be himself', not have to work hard with all the seduction etc and use me for emotional support. Well, he did intervene the other night with the crazy HM's and stick up for me/get me away from a situation that was both volatile and threatening to me so, it isn't entirely one-way.

What is one-way is that he has turned away from the idea of sexual intimacy, he has (as P+C and yourself pointed out) shown me over and over that he has moved on to other women ...

He started texting me asking if am doing OK while I was writing this. We sent a few back and forth and the timing/sudden cut off makes me think that he is most probably with my replacement ... .and probably hiding me from her ... she probably thinks I am just a housemate of his ... because she will know all about the drama that is going on ... he talks about this all non-stop.

I want out of here but want isn't enough ... there are things that need to be done and lack of time/money/ability is proving to be a massive set of hurdles.

Hi DC,

I have been thinking about you. You are definitely between a rock and a hard place with your living situation and I think you are getting great advice here and it's obvious from your posts that you know this situation isn't good for you. At all! I can relate to how knowing that intellectually but not being able to get your emotions to register this.

When you describe how you lay in bed and watch films and laugh and touch each other while talking it's something I can completely relate to too. My ex and I would do the same thing. I loved it. I felt such a connection with him for those times and so many other ways. We were so compatible and I was so I love with those parts. I felt he became part of me.  Then would come the inexplicable push away from me and the anger and distancing and then back. If he hadn't discarded me the last time I might still be hooked and I am almost positive his plan was to once again go off for a while and have his fun and then come back to good old reliable me that always took him back. I could never imagine disengaging with him if he hadn't done that but then I finally said to myself enough is enough. This could literally kill me. I can't be his rag doll so I made sure he knew he could never come back again. I put up my self defenses and fought back which I never really had done. I knew if I didn't do this I would always be susceptible to his whims.

It has been so hard but I really couldn't have done it if I had any kind of contact with him. Whatsoever. There is a real reason for no contact. I mean every once in a while just seeing his truck drive by can be a setback for me. So seeing him the way you do is impossible and so damaging to you. Knowing his every move, engaging, laying in bed with him then he runs off with other women. It's not good. It's like asking a major alcoholic to stop drinking when everyone around him is drinking. Stopping is just not going to happen under those conditions.

I do think you are his back up even if he has others. I don't think quantity matters or hierarchy. Different people for different uses and everyone can change positions over time.  It's a game to him. Actually the withdrawing of sex when he had at onetime built a sexual relationship with you is part of gaining control. He knows by now it is your weak spot. And to act like it's all just normal. He has no respect for your feelings whatsoever.

Just my opinion but he seems more npd than BPD. I may have missed some of your posts so not sure how BPD was the conclusion. You may have stated this but the posts I've read seem to be missing some major aspects of BPD. Have you read or watched any of Sam valkin videos on youtube. He is very controversial and is a self proclaimed narcissist but much of what he says rings true to my ex and it really helps to understand the type of behaviors they exhibit. It helped me depersonalize and detach. A lot of the sexual behaviors he is exhibiting. Ie being highly sexual in the beginning and then holding back to frustrate you... .very npd!

I know it's hard to see everything clearly when your caught up in it but this really is a self degrading situation you are in. Think about it. You two were in a relationship. It's over. Ok fine not everything works out and you still have to live together. Fine not ideal but a real man with any decency and good intentions would not keep playing you and torturing you... .All the things he is doing. And believe me he knows exactly what he is doing. There is a real reason all the posts and advice here are strong for you to get out. You are being abused terribly and you are having real trouble detaching.

Please ask yourself Is this really what you want for your life? A man who doesn't even love you and will never even be capable of it and on top of it is willing to torture you. I know it doesn't completely seem like it because a part of you is getting some satisfaction from him but you are accepting crumbs when you deserve a whole loaf. Even if he came around again and wanted you again it would never last. His feelings are fleeting as were my exes. You would just be prolonging your torture.

I'm sorry to say this but this will never ever be a happy situation for you. Not even close. You really have to get out. Rarely would I give a complete stranger such absolute advice. Can't you find another place to live in the same city where you work? I don't think you have to be so drastic as to give up your job. Anything even if it's a flop house temporarily. I know not having family and friends there is part of what has to be making this harder. A support network is so important. I am glad you at least have this site.

I admire you for being so honest about your feelings. It is what's going to save you.

Sorry for the long post but I feel for you and hope you get out soon.

[patientandclear]

... .then changing her mind the next day saying she wasn't sure, wanted to be single... .and for the next few weeks we would meet and talk, never argued but the ex would do and say things to devalue the r/s she acted as if she wanted. i remember her saying during this time that she was thinking of moving away--"because there's nothing of value holding me here."

Ugh.  Goldy, that brought back powerful memories for me too.  My ex wanting to get back together and "go through time together" (how amazing to have those words said to you by someone you like & love so much!) to speculating that he really just needed to be alone & then maybe he'd move to another country a few weeks later.  Like you say, this sense that nothing tied him here just left my mouth open.  We'd decided not to try again while he did work in therapy, but my goodness, the sense that there was there was no bond of any weight ... .

Good morning & Merry Christmas everyone.  Reporting back on my own "big move" as DC called it: it's over.  He responded essentially giving up.

I'm sad but not surprised.  I asked him to do something maybe he just cannot do.  I feel better having asked for a real connection, rather than just reaching the conclusion that he can't on my own & being unilateral & not telling him what I needed.  But obviously, it's a lot to finally let go of.  A project I'm embarking on now.

Off to read the rest of your posts DC; back in a minute.

[patientandclear]

I've read the current posts now.  DC, just -- more of the same.  I do think you are the one he gets to be himself around, etc., absolutely.  This has great value to him.  But experiencing that & then having to watch as he sets it aside to go proclaim his sexual and emotional interest in another woman is soul-crushing.  It's a continuing, daily, hourly, rejection of your best self.  No one can withstand that & be OK.  And man have I tried!

The texting while he's on the trip but sudden cessation of texts ... .also brings back powerful bad memories.  My ex used to update me on his life, on points big & small, by text.  Like with so many pwBPD, I think texting updates like that gave him a way to feel connected without having to do anything scary like, you know, actually see me or talk to me  He's text the name of the movie he was going to start watching every evening at 11:30 pm ... .

Then a few months back, when I believe he started pursuing other women in his new city, that changed.  He stopped initiating texts.  When I would, he'd reply in his normal way but then abruptly end, over and over.  A couple times he's give a lame explanation later like "my phone is in my bag" or "just saw last night's texts."

It's a really bad feeling to have someone reach out & hook into you, and then set you down because something superficially more compelling has come along.  There will always be something (-one) superficially more compelling.  It's a big world, etc.  It's not OK for him to discount what you have which is much more than superficially compelling, for some temporary squeeze or new confidante.  That's why I ended up telling my ex I needed more or we needed to stop.  I need him to value our longevity & commitment & knowledge of each other, not act like they're interchangeable with someone he's known for 2 months.

So to get concrete about your situation and a way to get out of this toxic stew ... .can you put dog in kennel & then take a few days off work to do the housing search?

[damage control]

I may even be his best friend right now - I have been for the past year 

DC, The danger isn't in him maybe wanting to get back with you in a sexual capacity some day, it's in him holding you back from getting on with your life. I tried the "friends" thing for a while (at her request) after I ended our r/s, partly because we had been friends for a long time before we began our r/s. I found that my special "best friend" status simply meant that I still copped the rages, lies and mind games, so she could vent on me and show her best side to everyone else. It didn't last long. I still run in to her from time to time, and I'm civil and friendly, but that's as far as it goes.

Yes ... that is indeed a danger ...

I don't see being friends being of any benefit to me ... it makes it easier not to have to let go all at once but ... you are right ... it keeps me stuck/is keeping me stuck.

[damage control]

Hi Iwalk

Thanks for your support and thoughts ... it really helped last night when I read your post through several times over.

Contact with him is toxic for me. Even this morning, I feel better in many ways for not having seen him for almost 2 days, not having heard from him for almost one day. It's easier ... my head clears ... it hurts ... but ... it hurts anyway.

Sex and control ... yes. I keep thinking back to the ex before me ... they were together 3 years and he withdrew sex after 3 months ... she kept 'making' him have sex but it was a control game and of course, it must have been humiliating for her. When he and I met, he had an ad on a dating site - he showed me - and it actually said that even though she and him were 'very best friends', he no longer found her sexually attractive. She knew about this ad ... he showed her and over the previous 2 years or so, had managed to convince her that the friendship he and her had was more important than any sex act. He had her so turned around ... at the time, I thought she was just 'refusing' to accept that things were over ... but I now understand that he was probably getting off on withholding sex from here. He even said to me once that he thought her problem was that she was addicted to having sex with him because nobody had ever f&cked her the way he did ... .red flag? Absolutely ... but I didn't see it.

I actually originally thought he was NPD. It was while I was researching that (and a lot didn't fit) that I came across BPD.

The BPD fits because he doesn't really have the ego of NPD ... he lacks a stable sense of self. He idealises and devalues ... but for him this is sexual ... completely sexual. This is also getting worse as he gets older and is facing issues with impotency etc. He has substance abuse but this is medically sanctioned - he takes large doses of Xanax every single day ... this is because he has massive anxiety/fear issues ... it's quite debilitating for him. The Xanax also helps to mask emotions and deaden whatever he is going through ... Anger issues also - but these manifest in PA behaviour ... he doesn't rage outwardly although he does talk of the homicidal feelings he carries around. Emptiness/lack of substance in his life is prolific and he complains about this often. He has his work (highly structured which he clings to) and the internet (women) ... he has no friends whatsoever ... most people are put off by him due to very odd behaviour and the fact that he is socially awkward. I could go on ...

I am looking/trying for somewhere. I am stuck in this house due to my dog - so it's hard to look and I don't have a great deal of money - and am going to keep losing money if I don't get out of here so I can go back to work ... .I know this sounds like excuses but the dog thing is very real ... she has not settled and will carry on and bark if I go anywhere. This will happen anywhere but she will settle down once I have been and gone a couple of times and she realises that I am coming back ... here, I can't do that as all they have to do is open the door and she will go looking for me.

Thanks again

[free-n-clear]

I don't see being friends being of any benefit to me ...

You got that right, DC. You're not "friends with benefits", the only benefit I got from the "best friends" stage was an occasional game of pool. All other benefits accrued to her - emotional support, financial support, etc, etc, then when she wanted to get laid she go see my (former)mate.

[damage control]

P+C

I am so sorry to hear that he has chosen the path of the coward. How are you coping with that?

Yes, it is good to know and I think you stating your needs was both brave and sane.

I would be awaiting his attempts to pull you back in however ... he probably will not let you go very easily ... how long this takes will depend upon who and what is currently taking his attention. Perhaps it will be merciful and right now you have triggered him for long enough for you to heal a little and be able to sustain the boundaries you have put in place.

I hope so.

having to watch as he sets it aside to go proclaim his sexual and emotional interest in another woman is soul-crushing.  It's a continuing, daily, hourly, rejection of your best self.  No one can withstand that & be OK.  And man have I tried!

So to get concrete about your situation and a way to get out of this toxic stew ... .can you put dog in kennel & then take a few days off work to do the housing search?

I have been so angry with myself about the sex thing ... and unable to pinpoint why his withdrawal of sex makes me feel so ashamed. And you have nailed it here. It is a rejection of one's best self. An ongoing and calculated rejection of me. Actually, I am not sure he does it deliberately ... I am not defending him here ... what I mean is that I think he gets triggered when intimacy and sex collide and he cannot cope, and so, he somehow shuts down the sexual aspect.

As for kennels for the dog - I looked into that on Monday and they are booked - holiday season. Work is hard to take off as they don't have enough people to cover what there is right now and everyone is being rostered onto our new TV station - so, it's live TV and there needs to be people there ... I have tried outlining what is going on as best as possible but they just keep rostering me ... not only that, but not working means not earning which means not moving ... but then of course, I cannot leave the dog here and go to work. It's a closed circle and I am just spinning wheels trying to find an exit door.

[damage control]

I don't see being friends being of any benefit to me ...

You got that right, DC. You're not "friends with benefits", the only benefit I got from the "best friends" stage was an occasional game of pool. All other benefits accrued to her - emotional support, financial support, etc, etc, then when she wanted to get laid she go see my (former)mate.

Ouch!

he doesn't need me financially but emotionally, I am providing something it seems ... I wonder if 'looking after' me during this nightmare with the HM's is making him feel better for being such an a$$hole when he dumped me ... of course, abandoning me to them while he takes a Xmas vacation - well ... that raises questions ... ggrrr ... over it ... over this thread of mine!

[damage control]

I just wanted to say a big thanks to everyone who posted here with support, insight and advice ... it got me through the very blackest of black these past few days.

I am officially abandoning this thread  ... perhaps I will revert and have a worse one ... perhaps I will take a step forward ... guess we shall see.

[Surnia]

You are welcome. 

And yes, sometimes its good to let it drop. Give yourself a break.