Was having too much empathy your undoing?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

My ex suffered the most horrendous neglect and abuse in childhood,  from being a baby. Before I met her I'd never come across anything like it except in newspapers and on TV. In common with many pwBPD she could be a stranger to the truth,  but this I know was true. And when I put myself in her shoes I felt so, so bad for her and desperately wanted to make everything ok.

The problem was that because of this in my head I used it to excuse her emotionally abusive behaviour towards me over and over again. In fact the only time I ever really saw her display true empathy and kindness was towards other women who'd been abused.

I know now  that making excuses for someone doesn't help them or the r/s. But I felt so sad for what she'd endured.

Did anyone else make excuses for their SOwBPD to the detriment of the r/s?

[Arctic Monkey]

My ex suffered the most horrendous neglect and abuse in childhood,  from being a baby. Before I met her I'd never come across anything like it except in newspapers and on TV. In common with many pwBPD she could be a stranger to the truth,  but this I know was true. And when I put myself in her shoes I felt so, so bad for her and desperately wanted to make everything ok.

The problem was that because of this in my head I used it to excuse her emotionally abusive behaviour towards me over and over again. In fact the only time I ever really saw her display true empathy and kindness was towards other women who'd been abused.

I know now  that making excuses for someone doesn't help them or the r/s. But I felt so sad for what she'd endured.

Did anyone else make excuses for their SOwBPD to the detriment of the r/s?

[fromheeltoheal]

Not only did my ex have an abusive, neglectful childhood, according to her she was the victim in all her previous relationships, of course, it was those evil men who done her wrong, that's why there have been so many.  I bought it hook line and sinker initially, I was the savior, the Knight in Shining Armor, who was going to rescue her from her terrible past, and me, naturally being the caretaker type, got busy trying to 'fix' it.

After a while though, I expected some reciprocation, classic people pleaser behavior, giving hoping to get.  I wanted an equal partnership, not the rescuer/rescuie dynamic, and after all she's tough; with all the sht she's been through she's not only survived but at times thrived.  What happened to her wasn't her fault, but how she deals with it is her responsibility, and using her woes to manipulate became transparent and kind of boring.  Get off it babe, we all made it to today intact, time to start building something awesome together.  Not to be, she was too busy taking to give.

[Arctic Monkey]

No I never received any reciprocal support either. She just didn't do support. Positively feared having to support someone else. Probably a legacy of having to take care of a very unstable mother at 9 years old. But oddly her defences stopped her receiving support as well. Or at least appreciating it. Which at times has made me question whether it was BPD after all.

[babyducks]

Hi Arctic Monkey,

I survived an abusive and neglectful childhood.   And I have residual effects from the experience.   I also have choices, options and responsibilities.   

My number one responsiblity is to not let past hurt create new problems.  I am responsible for saying "Look, I have a problem being in the kitchen with knives to this day.  Intellectually I understand nothing bad is going to happen today but please understand I am going take a little while to get comfortable."

There is a scrolling message that pops up from time to time at the top of the board about having a victim mentality.  I like the message it provides.   I can choose how to think about things today.   I am not a victim.  The past shaped me, it does not define me.

I like what heal said

and me, naturally being the caretaker type, got busy trying to 'fix' it.  After a while though, I expected some reciprocation, classic people pleaser behavior, giving hoping to get.

We all have traits of something.   We all fall somewhere on the spectrum.   The problem for me is that in my relationship with my EX, things got out of balance so very quickly.   In a healthy relationship you give to your partner because you do care for them and want to help and offer support and encouragement.  That's fine.  But in a relationship with pwBPD we give and they want more.   And we give more.   And we end up pouring ourselves out like water to fill a bucket with a hole in it.   

The question is why we don't stop pouring ourselves out like water.   The hook is we get this over the top incredible loving (sometimes) in response to our giving.   

For me I wonder why it feels so unnatural to say, "this relationship is one sided and I need to stop it".

babyducks

[blueeyedjess]

Hi Arctic Monkey,

I survived an abusive and neglectful childhood.   And I have residual effects from the experience.   I also have choices, options and responsibilities.   

My number one responsiblity is to not let past hurt create new problems.  I am responsible for saying "Look, I have a problem being in the kitchen with knives to this day.  Intellectually I understand nothing bad is going to happen today but please understand I am going take a little while to get comfortable."

There is a scrolling message that pops up from time to time at the top of the board about having a victim mentality.  I like the message it provides.   I can choose how to think about things today.   I am not a victim.  The past shaped me, it does not define me.

I like what heal said

and me, naturally being the caretaker type, got busy trying to 'fix' it.  After a while though, I expected some reciprocation, classic people pleaser behavior, giving hoping to get.

We all have traits of something.   We all fall somewhere on the spectrum.   The problem for me is that in my relationship with my EX, things got out of balance so very quickly.   In a healthy relationship you give to your partner because you do care for them and want to help and offer support and encouragement.  That's fine.  But in a relationship with pwBPD we give and they want more.   And we give more.   And we end up pouring ourselves out like water to fill a bucket with a hole in it.   

The question is why we don't stop pouring ourselves out like water.   The hook is we get this over the top incredible loving (sometimes) in response to our giving.   

For me I wonder why it feels so unnatural to say, "this relationship is one sided and I need to stop it".

babyducks

WOW babyducks, I feel like I wrote this! you totally nailed it. It is often a wonder to me how like people find like people. The difference is in the ability to cope. By that I mean that our nature is one that we are sought out by others, often, that share the same kinds of back grounds.

I was emotionally, sexually, mentally, and physically abused as a child. So was my BPDhubby. The difference is the STRENGTH that lies within us. I can logically look at things, put on my big girl panties and deal. I taught my self how to cope, not that my coping mechanisms are always that grear, but I do well enough. He never did learn how to deal. I am strong, where he is weak and his weakness sucks the life out of me because he pulls from it, relies on it and needs me to deal for him. I am an empath, I am easily sucked into taking care of people who can't take care of themselves and it is terribly hard to NOT jump into rescue or caretaker mode. I have to keep reminding myself, that I have to take care of ME.

[hergestridge]

For me I wonder why it feels so unnatural to say, "this relationship is one sided and I need to stop it".

I thought exactly that a couple of weeks after meeting my BPDdw. Then I thought that the relationship could only get better from there, so I stayed. So I don't know what it would have taken to chase me away. It's like that KISS slogan "You wanted the best, you got the best" - only in reverse!

[happylogist]

My ex did not have an abusive childhood (at least not that he remembers), but I contributed to his breakup with his ex because of our affair. This feeling of guilt and owing him for his happiness kept me to be his emotional caretaker and very often be hurt because of his uncaring, needy and entitled behavior. My point is there always an excuse for understanding and 'saving', which is at one point narcissistic obsession of a giver with a low self-worth. In my case I needed more care and detachment than I could possibly imagine.

[arn131arn]

I didn't like me or my life when I was drinking, so I changed that about me.

I didn't want to bartend all my life, so I went back to school.

We were there for them.  We tried to help them, and they threw it away.

This is the perfect example of a man that, by all means, should be in jail or dead.  Someone took a chance on him and he is the most gifted/ successful person in his field.  He didn't like how his life was going, and he changed it.  This is why I hate BPD because it doesn't seem that they are capable or even realize how hitty their life is or has become:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4vCGl71nTM

[free-n-clear]

The problem was that because of this in my head I used it to excuse her emotionally abusive behaviour towards me over and over again.

    I'd known my uBPDxgf as a friend for 7 years before we began a r/s, so I knew a lot of her history, both what she'd told me of her childhood and what I'd observed of her earlier r/s with a guy who treated her like a piece of sh1t. (I think I understand why he did, now.)

    So yes, I was forever tolerating, excusing & forgiving her behaviour, up to and including infidelity, on the grounds that ''it's not her fault that she is the way she is". When I first learned about BPD I could finally give it a name as all the symptoms were there, but still thought that because I understood, I could help her, or at least get her to help herself.

     It took me a while to accept that nothing I did or said would ever make any difference, but I got there eventually.

[myself]

My empathy was fine. How much of it was misplaced because of her lies and manipulations I'll never know. She probably was abused. I know she was abusive.

I didn't go out with her to save her. When we met, I thought she was someone who had her sh!t together, but found out later it wasn't so. When the lid came off, I already cared, was in love, and did what I could to help. She needed me to be good with her, and I was, but it was turned against me. Her fears and shame keep her from a better life, not me. I believe she could make positive changes if she wanted to.

My undoing was when I knew it was a dead end and kept going.

[santa]

I think my undoing was believing her when she said she was on birth control. 

[fromheeltoheal]

My empathy was fine. How much of it was misplaced because of her lies and manipulations I'll never know. She probably was abused. I know she was abusive.

I didn't go out with her to save her. When we met, I thought she was someone who had her sh!t together, but found out later it wasn't so. When the lid came off, I already cared, was in love, and did what I could to help. She needed me to be good with her, and I was, but it was turned against me. Her fears and shame keep her from a better life, not me. I believe she could make positive changes if she wanted to.

My undoing was when I knew it was a dead end and kept going.

I could have written that.  Well put!

[santa]

My empathy was fine. How much of it was misplaced because of her lies and manipulations I'll never know. She probably was abused. I know she was abusive.

I didn't go out with her to save her. When we met, I thought she was someone who had her sh!t together, but found out later it wasn't so. When the lid came off, I already cared, was in love, and did what I could to help. She needed me to be good with her, and I was, but it was turned against me. Her fears and shame keep her from a better life, not me. I believe she could make positive changes if she wanted to.

My undoing was when I knew it was a dead end and kept going.

I could have written that.  Well put!

+1

Good stuff.

[Cardinals in Flight]

My ex suffered the most horrendous neglect and abuse in childhood,  from being a baby. Before I met her I'd never come across anything like it except in newspapers and on TV. In common with many pwBPD she could be a stranger to the truth,  but this I know was true. And when I put myself in her shoes I felt so, so bad for her and desperately wanted to make everything ok.

The problem was that because of this in my head I used it to excuse her emotionally abusive behaviour towards me over and over again. In fact the only time I ever really saw her display true empathy and kindness was towards other women who'd been abused.

I know now  that making excuses for someone doesn't help them or the r/s. But I felt so sad for what she'd endured.

Did anyone else make excuses for their SOwBPD to the detriment of the r/s?

Absolutely!  All I saw was a broken child, and yes, I took WAY more abuse than anyone should stand for.

CiF

[MrConfused]

Not only did my ex have an abusive, neglectful childhood, according to her she was the victim in all her previous relationships, of course, it was those evil men who done her wrong, that's why there have been so many.  I bought it hook line and sinker initially, I was the savior, the Knight in Shining Armor, who was going to rescue her from her terrible past, and me, naturally being the caretaker type, got busy trying to 'fix' it.

After a while though, I expected some reciprocation, classic people pleaser behavior, giving hoping to get.  I wanted an equal partnership, not the rescuer/rescuie dynamic, and after all she's tough; with all the sht she's been through she's not only survived but at times thrived.  What happened to her wasn't her fault, but how she deals with it is her responsibility, and using her woes to manipulate became transparent and kind of boring.  Get off it babe, we all made it to today intact, time to start building something awesome together.  Not to be, she was too busy taking to give.

yikes yeah. This describes my relationship to a T. All her previous relationships had ended badly, were abusive or wanted more than she could give (what?)

I was the saviour, the guy that was going to prove to her that no, not all guys who wanted a relationship with her were horrible pricks who would end up hurting her & for a while it was good. Slowly her defences came down & all that work I got getting to that place felt worth it (It wasn't, It was damaging me more than I knew. I was constantly stressed.)

Of course, she went out of her way to prove her views to herself. No matter what I did, I was somehow the bad guy. I ended up describing the relationship to my friends in BPD terms before I'd even read about it. "Eggshells" was a phase I used often. I think I even told her once that my only crime was caring too much, not that she really cared. I was drained, constantly.

[MrFox]

My exBPDgf is a professional victim.  Terrible childhood (unconfirmed), sexually assaulted by a teacher when she was 15 (this later changed to he just tried to kiss her once, not sure the real story), cancer (I know she did have it once, but she has claimed it came back on two occasions, but then went away on its own. Cause cancer does that), child stolen by her ex-husband (I later found out she sold her rights for 2 grand), claims to have MS (she would never tell me when or where she was diagnosed and it only appears when its convenient for her), every man has mistreated her (I didn't but in her mind I did).

I admit, I fell for waif act. 

[loz1982]

Yes I believe too much empathy is my undoing, I have too much and he doesn't have any! Most girls would've walked out 2 years ago but I thought things would get better and despite my needs weren't getting met or the abuse, I still felt sorry for him because he can't help it or doesn't realise. I need to have more empathy and respect for myself! Can you make yourself a less empathetic person?

[free-n-clear]

Can you make yourself a less empathetic person?

  Only by letting it beat you, and becoming jaded and cynical, instead.

[MrFox]

Can you make yourself a less empathetic person?

You could but I would say a better plan is to find someone worthy of the empathy you have.

[Arctic Monkey]

Had a hectic week so only just read these replies. It's amazing how many of us have had similar experiences,  whether their SO's  childhood abuse was real - as in the case of my ex - or doubtful. My turning point,  as with free'n'clear, was when I finally realised nothing I ever did would be enough and nothing would be different in the future.

Sometimes I do wonder if it was just me bringing out the traits, but not strong enough yet to be curious if she has someone new. One thing I did notice though... .    she only seemed in her comfort zone if she was behaving abusively or being abused. A normal balanced easygoing relationship just didn't sit well with her - and not just with partners, other family and former friends too.

Anyhow,  in common with several of you I just had to shake myself out of the Stockholm syndrome and put myself and my family first again.

[charred]

Water finds its own level... . people find people that are similar in some ways to them. As a kid you had your parents r/s as a model for what "love" is and when you go looking for love... . their r/s is what you look for (as heinous as it may sound.)  So... the people you get big sparks with, if you are from a dysfunctional FOO... will have issues. Used to doubt this a bit... my pwBPD was explosively BPD... and no one in my family was that way... my dad is NPD, but mom was just really passive-aggresive. (Turned out that was waif BPD... so not much different, she turned all that inwards instead of outwards.)

Thing is... when you didn't get unconditional love as a little kid, you crave it more than anything... but suppress it. Then you meet someone that is BPD, and they idealize you, mirror you, blow smoke about how great you are and next thing you know... you are hooked... and the world is awesome (and deep down you feel like you have the unconditional love you needed)... you idealize your pwBPD, put them on a pedestal... and then... they switch from blowing smoke about how wonderful you are to being hateful, abusive... and instead of calling them on the carpet for it... you accept it like a whipped puppy... and take much of what they say (no matter how ludicrous)... to heart... . jump through hoops trying to please them... and start to doubt yourself at every turn.

So... was too much empathy our undoing... . empathy has nothing to do  with it. Thinking that they were the unconditionally loving person we took them for... is what was our undoing... not heeding the   like the r/s moving too fast, being isolated from others, irrational demands, etc.

[Iwalk-Heruns]

I believe it is that our empathy was misplaced or misguided or even gained out of deceit. So yes it hurt us that we had too much empathy for them and did keep us stuck. But it wasn't the fact that we HAVE a too much empathy as a person. I hope this situation doesn't change who we are. It is a wonderful thing to be an empathetic person. But is critical to just know when it is proper to give it and when it is not to be self protective. Boundaries.

[hergestridge]

Empathy is the capacity to recognize some else's emotion. It is not difficult to recongize what a BPD person feels. They're not exactly trying to hide their emotions from the world. The problem is that we adjust ourselves, which has nothing to do with empathy.

I would say fear is bigger factor. When someone gets close to me and starts to push me, I tend to either pull away or give in. I never had the guts to negotiate (i e setting boundaries).

[blueeyedjess]

Empathy is the capacity to recognize some else's emotion. It is not difficult to recongize what a BPD person feels. They're not exactly trying to hide their emotions from the world. The problem is that we adjust ourselves, which has nothing to do with empathy.

I would say fear is bigger factor. When someone gets close to me and starts to push me, I tend to either pull away or give in. I never had the guts to negotiate (i e setting boundaries).

Totally co-dependent. I'm right there with you. I'm working on breaking the cycle. I've set boundaries and stuck to them pretty well. I have moments, but I try and stay strong- even when I want to throw up when I'm enforcing them. I've lived as "someone else" for way too long. Accommodating has gotten me nothing but pain, in the long run.