after last week asking me to install skype...

[Turkish]

... . so she could see the kids during the goodnight calls on my time, she waits until almost 9 to call. She knows I get them in bed at 830 at the latest, especially on bath nights which was tonight. "Hi, are the kids awake?" (Sound of someone having fun in the background). "No, uBPDx, you waited until almost 9 to call, and I already bathed them and they pssed out within 5 mins." "Oh, ok, alright then, thank you, bye."

I knew I should have just let it go to voice mail and then texted her. She was so cordial and accomodating in the email exchange we had earlier regarding custody and the stipulation, none of which she challenged, suprisingly (I have a lawyer representing me, she doesn't) I guess she was having too much fun to have the conversation she said in her email she wanted to have regarding some coparenting issues.

Why do I expect too much? She's still, the same person. I guess the skype request was just her missing the kids at that moment. As long as she has some object with her for validation, I guess she's ok.

I don't even know why I'm posting this. Nothing dramatic in the big picture. Just me feeling dissappoinment.

[myself]

It could be her way of missing the kids but not really facing them. Of making a false effort. Of rubbing her carefree attitude into your space. Less disappointment comes with more boundaries?

[Mutt]

This is just a guess, but could it be object constancy? I've set boundaries with my ex recently on my time and she's been calling to talk to the kids. She has not seen them for the first time on my time for 6 days.

I had let her take the kids out for supper etc on my time before this past week. There has been some conflict and I thought it's best that she does what she wants on her time. After todays call for the kids, object constancy came to mind. She gets them back tomorrow and I thought why not wait until then? She had nothing important to say to them.

[Turkish]

It could be her way of missing the kids but not really facing them. Of making a false effort. Of rubbing her carefree attitude into your space. Less disappointment comes with more boundaries?

Yes, myself. I knew I should have let it go to voicemail. I think I was expecting a sense of regret from her. I was looking for validation of what I expected. Foolish of me. I know who and what she is, but I keep fighting it. She gets the kids all weekend. That's her time to turn mommy. I personally hate the joint custody. I want to see them every day. I need to move on and accept that it is what it is. Live in my new reality... .

[PhoenixRising15]

Turkish,

You are a stronger man than I.  I admire your courage and strength in this heartless situation.

Your children are exceptionally lucky to have such a dedicated father.

[Tausk]

It's difficult to interpret the reasoning.  And without the sense of self, the reason may change without anyone really knowing what the original premise was in the first place.

The question that I would ask myself, is the skype thing good for me?  Good for the children? Which, I hope, are pretty much the same question.

Can you keep I keep my boundaries?  Keep from being adversely triggered.  If so, it might be a way to soothe the ex. Self soothing is difficult for a pwBPD. Especially with the lack of object constancy.  So, being able to see the kids once in a while when it's not her days might be good.  

But again, it has to be OK with me.  And if she doesn't call at the prescribed time, maybe just not answer.

Congrats on getting the kids to sleep at a reasonable hour.  It's clear that you love them deeply.  I'm jealous of you.

T

[Turkish]

This is just a guess, but could it be object constancy? I've set boundaries with my ex recently on my time and she's been calling to talk to the kids. She has not seen them for the first time on my time for 6 days.

I had let her take the kids out for supper etc on my time before this past week. There has been some conflict and I thought it's best that she does what she wants on her time. After todays call for the kids, object constancy came to mind. She gets them back tomorrow and I thought why not wait until then? She had nothing important to say to them.

The funny thing, Mutt, is that D1 and S4 would probably not miss either of us checking in every night... . object constancy. As long as they have one parent with them, they're ok. The conversations are short on either side anyway, though I think D22 mos is more attached to me (maybe wishful thinking, I don't know). I started the calling every night, though she would have anyway. I'm stable and constant; she's not. I guess I need to accept that. I was really suprised she didn't argue a single point of the stipulation draft I sent to her. Its almost like she wants it done and out of the way, and is willing to let me "lead" as long as there is nothing untoward in it, which there is not. Its pretty much template.

[Turkish]

It's difficult to interpret the reasoning.  And without the sense of self, the reason may change without anyone really knowing what the original premise was in the first place.

The question that I would ask myself, is the skype thing good for me?  Good for the children? Which, I hope, are pretty much the same question.

Can you keep I keep my boundaries?  Keep from being adversely triggered.  If so, it might be a way to soothe the ex. Self soothing is difficult for a pwBPD. Especially with the lack of object constancy.  So, being able to see the kids once in a while when it's not her days might be good.  

But again, it has to be OK with me.  And if she doesn't call at the prescribed time, maybe just not answer.

Congrats on getting the kids to sleep at a reasonable hour.  It's clear that you love them deeply.  I'm jealous of you.

T

Thanks, Tausk... . yes I do. They are my little angel monsters. Darned if this is all not worth it in the end. I ignored her skype request. Boundary. She hasn't mentioned it since (surprise and no surprise). I won't answer next time, and I'm mad at myself that I did this time. She can break from work and see them at her moms on my days if she wants, which I think she does sometimes. That's her business. She hasn't asked yet to see the kids on my time. Too busy with her narc boy toy.

I am still stuck, like many here, waiting for her r/s to implode and that's not good. I need to be focusing on the kids, work (which I am better, but still having a problem with), and myself.

Hiking this weekend, maybe painting "her" color out of the hallway (living room and dining room hall done two weeks ago). Due to rain, yard work needs to be done this weekend. Something to keep me busy for a few hours to keep my mind of this empty house. This will take me a while. I need to accept it, but its difficult.

[Mutt]

The conversations are short on either side anyway, though I think D22 mos is more attached to me (maybe wishful thinking, I don't know). I started the calling every night, though she would have anyway. I'm stable and constant; she's not. I guess I need to accept that. I was really suprised she didn't argue a single point of the stipulation draft I sent to her. Its almost like she wants it done and out of the way

My youngest is 2 1/2 and he is more attached to me than to my ex. He says often that he doesn't miss mom. I'm flattered because I know I'm doing something right. It concerns me because it's his mother and he should be more attached to her. D8 says that he asks and cries for me often at her house w/ mom.

My ex has only recently been asking me for a counter-offer to her offers. This is in the last 3 weeks after being separated for just over a year. As hard as I tried with separation agreements, she wanted nothing to do with divorce. Now she's eager to get it out of the way. I can empathise with her frustration because I was in her shoes a year ago.

I'm trying to get through bill eddy's book and custody has to be figured out and out of the way. I'm asking for 100% when court resumes in a couple of weeks. She was in her honeymoon last year and wanted nothing to do with her old life. It's a year later and she wants it done. Who knows, maybe she wants to marry this guy and that's why she wants to sign the papers now.

[Tausk]

Congrats on getting the kids to sleep at a reasonable hour.  It's clear that you love them deeply.  I'm jealous of you.

T

Thanks, Tausk... . yes I do. They are my little angel monsters. Darned if this is all not worth it in the end. I ignored her skype request. Boundary. She hasn't mentioned it since (surprise and no surprise). I won't answer next time, and I'm mad at myself that I did this time. She can break from work and see them at her moms on my days if she wants, which I think she does sometimes. That's her business. She hasn't asked yet to see the kids on my time. Too busy with her narc boy toy.

I am still stuck, like many here, waiting for her r/s to implode and that's not good. I need to be focusing on the kids, work (which I am better, but still having a problem with), and myself.

Hiking this weekend, maybe painting "her" color out of the hallway (living room and dining room hall done two weeks ago). Due to rain, yard work needs to be done this weekend. Something to keep me busy for a few hours to keep my mind of this empty house. This will take me a while. I need to accept it, but its difficult.

It's only natural to want validation of our feelings toward the Disorder.  And you're so intertwined with the kids and so recently removed... . I':) BE REALLY REALLY WORRIED FOR YOU AND MORE SO FOR THE KIDS IF YOU WERE NOT AT LEAST SOMEWHAT STUCK IN THE DISORDER.

It's a trauma bond, and it's grieving the loss of a dream. It might been a fantasy/dream, but it was still ours and it still needs to be grieved.  So, the pain is the processing.  In order to grow and move beyond the FOG and FOO issues, pain is an absolute requirement.  But, the pain we feel allows us to understand, grow and be the people we have always wanted to be.   I'm getting there.  Honestly.  

So the pain is necessary, but suffering can be limited.  And how we respond to the pain is how long the suffering will last.   Getting out, being physically active helps me a lot.  Meditation helps a lot as well  Maybe investigate some mindfulness groups or classes.  Can't hurt.

I'm giving a lot to givers, which has made me stronger.  I'm much more interconnected with others, as opposed to being deliberately isolated by my ex.   I'm feeling better about myself in a real sense than I ever could have dreamed.  I have forgiveness and acceptance of myself.  It's come from the pain and work.  Just like exercise.

And, just from what I've read you're doing it.  Absolutely.  And not only you, but your children will benefit from the pain.  They will understand that their mother is limited in capacity.  And they will the see the actions of a decent, caring, honest and courageous father.  Your children will see and experience your actions, not just hear the words and empty promises !

You're walking the talk.  And it's worth it.  It hurts like hell at times, but it makes us stronger.  In the Disorder, the pain never gives us anything but more pain.   In recovery, the pain of growth, gives us... . Growth!  

We lose track of how far we have come sometimes in the moments of difficulty. I have to reflect (and one of my friends often helps me) as to how far I've come since the awareness of the Disorder.  I'm not the same person.  I can handle so much more in my life.

I'm sure that in reflection, you can see the growth as well.  The benefits of the growth to you and the kids.  Let it give you hope and faith that the growth will continue and that you and the children will recover.  That the cycle of the Disorder will be broken.  

And as hard as it is on you, I know that you wouldn't trade the baseline interaction for anything because it brought you the "little monsters."    

And P.S. I know that you know that  being little monsters is their job    So congrats on training them well for the workforce.

[Turkish]

Tonight she has the kids. Talking tonight for a while, it was like talking to the "normal" her. This is so weird... . thanks in no small part to BPDF, at least I understand it better, or I'd likely go crazy myself.

She's apparently working with male survivors of sexual abuse for her job now. She told me she's been talking to D1 and S4 about their bodies and boundaries, reading up on things. She told D1 it was ok if she didn't want to give grandpa a hug, to not feel pressured by it. This happened the other day. I didn't tell her that if she didn't want to give me a hug, I'd pick her up anyway, but I understand what their mother is saying. Probably a topic for the coparenting board.

Overall, I felt better talking to "normal" uBPDx tonight, rather than the short exchange with teen mom last night, where she was obviously with her bf and projecting a different personality. I know its their way of attaching and coping, but its so frustrating.