Are we Non's suffering from post traumatic stress?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So many of us experience extreme stress related to our pwBPDx. I was wondering if our experience was so traumatic that we're reliving it time and again in our minds in a similar way to the way people diagnosed with PTSD relive their traumas and find it so difficult to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.

Here are the DMS-IV criteria for PTSD. How do you folks relate to them?

A.    The person has been exposed to a traumatic event in which both of the following were present:

        (1) The person experienced, witnessed, or was confronted with an event or events that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self or others.

        (2) The person’s response involved intense fear, helplessness, or horror. Note: In children, this may be expressed instead by disorganized or agitated behavior.

B.    The traumatic event is persistently reexperienced in one (or more) of the following ways:

        (3) Recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections of the event, including images, thoughts, or perceptions. Note: In young children, repetitive play may occur in which themes or aspects of the trauma are expressed.

        (4) Recurrent distressing dreams of the event. Note: In children, there may be frightening dreams without recognizable content.

        (5) Acting or feeling as if the traumatic event were recurring (includes a sense of reliving the experience; illusions, hallucinations, and dissociative flashback episodes, including those that occur on awakening or when intoxicated). Note: In young children, trauma-specific reenactment may occur.

        (6) Intense psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event.

        (7) Physiological reactivity on exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event.

C.    Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and numbing of general responsiveness (not present before the trauma), as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

        (8) Efforts to avoid thoughts, feelings, or conversations associated with the trauma

        (9) Efforts to avoid activities, places, or people that arouse recollections of the trauma

        (10) Inability to recall an important aspect of the trauma

        (11) Markedly diminished interest or participation in significant activities

        (12) Feeling of detachment or estrangement from others

        (13) Restricted range of affect (e.g., unable to have loving feelings)

        (14) Sense of a foreshortened future (e.g., does not expect to have a career, marriage, children, or a normal lifespan)

D. Persistent symptoms of increased arousal (not present before the trauma), as indicated by two (or more) of the following:

        (1) Difficulty falling or staying asleep

        (2) Irritability or outbursts of anger

        (3) Difficulty concentrating

        (4) Hypervigilance

        (5) Exaggerated startle response

E.    Duration of the disturbance (symptoms in Criteria B, C, and D) is more than 1 month.

F.    The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

[trappedinlove]

So many of us experience extreme stress related to our pwBPDx. I was wondering if our experience was so traumatic that we're reliving it time and again in our minds in a similar way to the way people diagnosed with PTSD relive their traumas and find it so difficult to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.

Here are the DMS-IV criteria for PTSD. How do you folks relate to them?

A.    The person has been exposed to a traumatic event in which both of the following were present:

        (1) The person experienced, witnessed, or was confronted with an event or events that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self or others.

        (2) The person’s response involved intense fear, helplessness, or horror. Note: In children, this may be expressed instead by disorganized or agitated behavior.

B.    The traumatic event is persistently reexperienced in one (or more) of the following ways:

        (3) Recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections of the event, including images, thoughts, or perceptions. Note: In young children, repetitive play may occur in which themes or aspects of the trauma are expressed.

        (4) Recurrent distressing dreams of the event. Note: In children, there may be frightening dreams without recognizable content.

        (5) Acting or feeling as if the traumatic event were recurring (includes a sense of reliving the experience; illusions, hallucinations, and dissociative flashback episodes, including those that occur on awakening or when intoxicated). Note: In young children, trauma-specific reenactment may occur.

        (6) Intense psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event.

        (7) Physiological reactivity on exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event.

C.    Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and numbing of general responsiveness (not present before the trauma), as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

        (8) Efforts to avoid thoughts, feelings, or conversations associated with the trauma

        (9) Efforts to avoid activities, places, or people that arouse recollections of the trauma

        (10) Inability to recall an important aspect of the trauma

        (11) Markedly diminished interest or participation in significant activities

        (12) Feeling of detachment or estrangement from others

        (13) Restricted range of affect (e.g., unable to have loving feelings)

        (14) Sense of a foreshortened future (e.g., does not expect to have a career, marriage, children, or a normal lifespan)

D. Persistent symptoms of increased arousal (not present before the trauma), as indicated by two (or more) of the following:

        (1) Difficulty falling or staying asleep

        (2) Irritability or outbursts of anger

        (3) Difficulty concentrating

        (4) Hypervigilance

        (5) Exaggerated startle response

E.    Duration of the disturbance (symptoms in Criteria B, C, and D) is more than 1 month.

F.    The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

[keith99]

Im pretty sure that 12 years of being married to an borderline has left me with PTSD.  My ex was never diagnosed but pretty clear she had it.  I was naive when I finally left that I would simply get over it.  I have been 2 years out and I am still haunted by the marriege and how I allowed myself to be treated the way she treated me.

What makes it that much worse is that I have a son with her and i havent seen him for 2 years.  We had regular contact but shes cut me off from that.  The main thing i have is very bad anxity and nightmares.

[coolioqq]

I've had (still have?) PTSD post-breakup. It was a traumatic chain of events so I think it would be weird if I didn't get it. How did I get over it? Full NC, supplements, some exercise, reading a book on controlling anxiety, and reading a magnificent book on contemplation - this one changed my world view for the better.

PTSD involves both depression (ruminating about the past) and anxiety (fear of the future). The key to getting out of the ditch that is PTSD, as I learned, is multi-fold. Time (no significant shortcuts, I'm affraid), proper nutrition (google paleo), supplements, acquiring mindfulness (from a 500 year old book, of all) and intently commiting to living in the present.

A good therapist is also something to seriously consider.

[WalrusGumboot]

I was married 23 years, two years out now. There is no doubt I have some form of PTSD. The last 5 years of my marriage was a complete meltdown and her episodes reached all-time highs of craziness. My main symptom is high anxiety. Through good care of myself the last few years, I have been able to greatly improve in most other areas. I think it just takes time.

[thicker skin]

Yep... . I suffered with PTSD after a two year lull in his abuse. The sudden return of it, over the same triggers, gave me horrendous nightmares. I'd shake when he came near me, thought about taking my own life when he made threats against me and mine and near broke me.

I was a mess. He didn't think he'd done anything wrong.

[Cloudy Days]

I have not left my husband, but I am planning on it. One of the main reasons I want to and one of the main reasons I haven't is because he has given me PTSD. I can't sleep when he is even a little bit irritated, the moment I hear a loud noise my heart pumps and my hands go numb, have even started to have ringing in my ears and nightmares. I was researching my husband's PTSD when I found that ringing ears is a symptom. I found a site that talks about Secondary PTSD. Which is a term coined for wives of combat vets that develop symptoms of PTSD. I can't imagine living with someone with BPD would be any different.

[Cimbaruns]

Yes I believe PTSD has been an issue with me.

I remember the breakup before this final one was particularly filled with high stress, high anxiety and very traumatic.

The triggering was unbelievable to the point of several panic attacks!

I was seeing a T throughout my r/s so when my ex chose to disappear and disconnect my world seemed to crumble.

I remember several episodes of intense triggering and we worked intensely on all of the trauma that is presented me.

I will say that I was reluctant to go full NC during that time and that was my biggest mistake.

If I had... . I am sure now... . that I wouldn't have EVER gone back... . but alas the door remained slightly ajar and we recycled again... .

I had made such good progress ... . even to the point of beginning to dig into all of my Foo and core issues... .

I remember feeling shame ... . when it came to my T finding out that I was going to go back !

The PTSD is still present this time ... . however... . I went FULL NC... . including social media etc... . and it was what saved me this time... . and allowed me to heal and protect myself from further damage and manipulation.

I agree with coolioqq

Time ... . Exercise... . good healthy eating... . and some Mindfullness practice and meditating is helping me get to a place where I can breathe

But yes ... . I believe in my case... . My exBPDw has caused damage in many ways... . of which it will take some time to move on from... . if ever totally

[winston72]

Hey Trappedinlove, thank you for sharing that information from the DSM.  I had to laugh at myself... . a very uncomfortable, nervous, self-mocking laugh, but laughter nonetheless.  I would have give a mild "sort of" answer to this question until I read the list of symptoms.  I manifested every single one of them.  Literally... . just read them again... . for the third time.

The one aspect in the DSM that does not really apply to me is A1.

A.    The person has been exposed to a traumatic event in which both of the following were present:

        (1) The person experienced, witnessed, or was confronted with an event or events that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self or others.

       (2) The person’s response involved intense fear, helplessness, or horror. Note: In children, this may be expressed instead by disorganized or agitated behavior.

I had a sudden, shocking realization of infidelity that had been going on through the first year of our relationship.  That moment was traumatic for me... . very... . and it lingers to this day, but I find that the other symptoms persist as a result of more chronic or randomly episodic events... . the typical list of distortions and odd behaviors that left me befuddled, wounded and desperate. 

I find that the research into PTSD and the conversations around healing from traumatic events are really useful and insightful for me, but I am hesitant to apply the term to me.  I wish someone would develop a definition for a specific "PTRSD... . post traumatic relationship stress disorder" and alter the entry point from A1 to something more akin to what many of us on these boards experienced.  Even though A1 did not apply to me, A2 does.

My, this was an incredibly damaging, powerful episode in my life... . and, of course, I still periodically pine for her.  Wow.

[trappedinlove]

Yes, emotional trauma in our case, not physical or life threatening in most cases.

For me C does not really apply as I keep going back to the source of the pain and trauma but the other symptoms are frighteningly similar.

I want to write more but I'm too depressed at this moment.

I hope to be back to this post when I feel better.

I wonder if therapy tools applicable to ptsd are applicable to ptrsd as well... .

For example, someone on another thread mentioned mindfully watching his BPDx's pic for a few minutes every day. Seems odd at first but it makes sense as a tool for desensitization.

[Skip]

trappedinlove,

You been through a lot of trauma with your family problems, an estranged wife dying from cancer, your children's struggles, an emotional affair... .   That's a lot by any standard and I imagine that you are emotionally flooded.

You may want to read about Acute Stress Disorder (ASD) and Disorders of Extreme Stress (DESNOS) and explore what you are going throgh with a physiologist.

Characteristic of DESNOS is trauma which involves interpersonal victimization, multiple traumatic events, or events of prolonged duration. Disturbances in six areas of functioning are required for the diagnosis: (1) regulation of affect and impulses; (2) attention or consciousness; (3) self-perception; (4) relations with others; (5) somatization; and (6) systems of meaning.

So many of us experience extreme stress related to our pwBPDx. I was wondering if our experience was so traumatic that we're reliving it time and again in our minds in a similar way to the way people diagnosed with PTSD relive their traumas and find it so difficult to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.

PTSD is a very specific type of anxiety. The more generalized terms "anxiety" and depression are more accurately characterize a bad relationship breakup than PTSD.  We know from testing members that more than 70% self test as having depression.

Here is the test:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79772.0

Here is some information on anxiety:

www.behavenet.com/node/21591

PTSD is an over used term on the Internet.  It's popular because the suggestion of PTSD as a result of a bad relationship implies that ones emotional struggles are totally related to external events.  Anxiety or depression involve our own emotional makeup.

Judith Lewis Herman, at Harvard, believed that complex-PTSD (C-PTSD) should be used to describe a history of prolonged subjection to totalitarian control including sexual abuse (especially child sexual abuse), physical abuse, emotional abuse, domestic violence or torture.  

She distinguished BPD, a disorder with genetic predisposition, from C-PTSD, a disorder from abuse.  .oth have similar symptomatology,

The APA did not buy into this distinction and does not list C-PTSD as a mental disorder, but certainly the thought is out there with a very reputable advocate.

Hang in there. This is really hard stuff.  

Skip

[trappedinlove]

Skip, thanks for your wise reply.

trappedinlove,

You been through a lot of trauma with your family problems, an estranged wife dying from cancer, your children's struggles, an emotional affair... .   That's a lot by any standard and I imagine that you are emotionally flooded.

You may want to read about Acute Stress Disorder (ASD) and Disorders of Extreme Stress (DESNOS) and explore what you are going throgh with a physiologist.

Characteristic of DESNOS is trauma which involves interpersonal victimization, multiple traumatic events, or events of prolonged duration. Disturbances in six areas of functioning are required for the diagnosis: (1) regulation of affect and impulses; (2) attention or consciousness; (3) self-perception; (4) relations with others; (5) somatization; and (6) systems of meaning.

I will definitely follow up on that.

So many of us experience extreme stress related to our pwBPDx. I was wondering if our experience was so traumatic that we're reliving it time and again in our minds in a similar way to the way people diagnosed with PTSD relive their traumas and find it so difficult to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.

PTSD is a very specific type of anxiety. The more generalized terms "anxiety" and depression are more accurately characterize a bad relationship breakup than PTSD.  We know from testing members that more than 70% self test as having depression.

That's why I didn't use the term PTSD but rather I mentioned "post-traumatic stress".

Here is the test:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79772.0

The link doesn't work for me

I get the following error:

"The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you."

PTSD is an over used term on the Internet.  It's popular because the suggestion of PTSD as a result of a bad relationship implies that ones emotional struggles are totally related to external events.  Anxiety or depression involve our own emotional makeup.

Judith Lewis Herman, at Harvard, believed that complex-PTSD (C-PTSD) should be used to describe a history of prolonged subjection to totalitarian control including sexual abuse (especially child sexual abuse), physical abuse, emotional abuse, domestic violence or torture.  

She distinguished BPD, a disorder with genetic predisposition, from C-PTSD, a disorder from abuse.

The APA did not buy into this distinction and does not list C-PTSD as a mental disorder, but certainly the thought is out there with a very reputable advocate.

It feels to me like the long exposure to the BPD r/s triggered and surfaced emotional pain, anxiety, and depression that are indeed my own.

When trying to understand what keeps me looping again and again in this circle of pain I realized that my mind is stuck trying to make sense out of insane paradoxes arising from the BPD push/pull behavior. How can you say and act one way and in a blink of an eye flip over and completely contradict yourself as if the former never happened? This is probably the way her mind just works and I really don't blame her for being that way, but I do feel like the prolonged imposition of her BPD behavior on me caused some mental injury... . Just thinking out loud... . [/quote]

Hang in there. This is really hard stuff.  

Skip

Thank you so much for your support!

[Cimbaruns]

Trappedinlove

That's exactly what I have been stuck with... .

"My mind is stuck trying to make sense of insane paradoxes arising from the BPD push/pull behavior"

Mind you... . I've been only 3 months out with NC ... . So it hasn't been that long... .

However... . I can relate that my mind is playing this continuous "loop"constantly... .

It's not that I'm even in a place where I keep thinking "what if " anymore... .

I swear that unless I am moving... . exercising... . working ... . or busy with friends... . the loop keeps coming back and playing and playing ... . over and over again

I truly feel emotionally and mentally damaged from the continued dysfunctional dynamics of the 5 year r/s with her.

Trying so very hard to recover and get to a centered place... .

I know it will take time and hard work... .

I just can't get my mind to settle... .

[trappedinlove]

Dear Cimbaruns,  It is so frustrating to feel this way.

That's exactly what I have been stuck with... .

"My mind is stuck trying to make sense of insane paradoxes arising from the BPD push/pull behavior"

Mind you... . I've been only 3 months out with NC ... . So it hasn't been that long... .

However... . I can relate that my mind is playing this continuous "loop"constantly... .

It's not that I'm even in a place where I keep thinking "what if " anymore... .

I swear that unless I am moving... . exercising... . working ... . or busy with friends... . the loop keeps coming back and playing and playing ... . over and over again

I truly feel emotionally and mentally damaged from the continued dysfunctional dynamics of the 5 year r/s with her.

Trying so very hard to recover and get to a centered place... .

I know it will take time and hard work... .

I just can't get my mind to settle... .

Be gentle with yourself Cimbarun. This relationship obviously matters a lot to you and your feelings for your x were and maybe still are very intense so it is no surprise that you grief hurts so much.  It should be.  Let it be with love and compassion to yourself.

What would your life be like without this obsession?

Is there something you might be afraid to face if this obsession would suddenly cease to exist?

[Skip]

It has been said that their can't be idealization without devaluation.   They are the same.

Trapped', be careful not to discount that this was a dual affair.  This is a hard one, I know, but who we pick in an affair and what we need is often very compartmentalized.

And don't discount that this she is newly divorced.  Many people distance themselves from their married life and affair partner after a divorce.

No simple answers, but I encourage you to also explore these other factors as you work to make sense of all of this.

This was a very complex relationship.

[letmeout]

I am 2 years out with no contact, and I don't get nightmares about him as often.

I saw him a couple of months ago (didn't talk to or go near him) but the nightmares came back for a week afterward. 

Anyone would have PTSD after the trauma inflicted by a BPD partner.

[charred]

My T did EMDR work for it with me, little doubt it was PTSD.

Never been so stressed out in my life, was having hives... was getting a divorce and being pushed/pulled by my pwBPD.

[trappedinlove]

Trapped', be careful not to discount that this was a dual affair.  This is a hard one, I know, but who we pick in an affair and what we need is often very compartmentalized.

And don't discount that this she is newly divorced.  Many people distance themselves from their married life and affair partner after a divorce.

No simple answers, but I encourage you to also explore these other factors as you work to make sense of all of this.

This was a very complex relationship.

Skip, both points are very valid and independent of BPD.  In the middle of the storm I'm in it's hard sometimes to see the obvious, "sane" factors that are indeed a significant part of the whole picture.  Thanks for pointing these out!

[Narellan]

I wondered this same thing today when a text message came through on my phone I almost had a panic attack. I have refused to look at texts for the past few days in case I have to deal with a confrontation. I have also deactivated FB so people can't contact me. I know I won't answer the door either if anyone comes. I'm still going to work and doing day to day stuff but dread any contact from ex BPD or my best friend he's now pursuing. My body goes into melt down at a received text or landline call where I can't see the caller name. I thinks it's def PTSD.  I think this too will pass with time but for now I want to avoid people.

[Want2know]

Here are the DMS-IV criteria for PTSD. How do you folks relate to them?

A.    The person has been exposed to a traumatic event in which both of the following were present:

       (1) The person experienced, witnessed, or was confronted with an event or events that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self or others.

       (2) The person’s response involved intense fear, helplessness, or horror. Note: In children, this may be expressed instead by disorganized or agitated behavior.

I was thinking about this recently as I was looking up the criteria for PTSD and didn't realize part A1, about the physical threat NEEDING to be present.  I don't want to discount the pain for those who claim to have PTSD from their relationships and did not experience such physical harm (or potential of harm), however, that's pretty serious stuff.  The term originally was created in response to those who were in a war.  

From the NIMH:

"PTSD develops after a terrifying ordeal that involved physical harm or the threat of physical harm. The person who develops PTSD may have been the one who was harmed, the harm may have happened to a loved one, or the person may have witnessed a harmful event that happened to loved ones or strangers."

As for my situation, I believe there probably is some PTSD from the physical abuse (head butted multiple times after being threatened for me to give him my hidden gun) and the threats (held in bed with knives, the threat of being thrown down the stairs).  If you did experience serious acts or threats such as these, along with what is discussed in part B, then perhaps you do have PTSD.

I would venture to say that Skip's idea of Acute Stress Disorder (ASD) and Disorders of Extreme Stress (DESNOS) are probably more prevalent vs. PTSD.  :)efinitely something to discuss with a therapist, as PTSD, ASD and DESNOS are not easy to work through on your own.  

[trappedinlove]

My body goes into melt down at a received text or landline call where I can't see the caller name. I thinks it's def PTSD.

I know the anxiety you're describing VERY well on myself.  Been there, definitely been there, experienced the panic in the face of an unread message, new fb post, possible chances I'll meet my ptdx by chance somewhere, etc. However, I'm not sure it formally qualifies as PTSD, for what it's worth... .

As skip said:

PTSD is a very specific type of anxiety. The more generalized terms "anxiety" and depression are more accurately characterize a bad relationship breakup than PTSD.  We know from testing members that more than 70% self test as having depression.

... .

PTSD is an over used term on the Internet.  It's popular because the suggestion of PTSD as a result of a bad relationship implies that ones emotional struggles are totally related to external events.  Anxiety or depression involve our own emotional makeup.

Judith Lewis Herman, at Harvard, believed that complex-PTSD (C-PTSD) should be used to describe a history of prolonged subjection to totalitarian control including sexual abuse (especially child sexual abuse), physical abuse, emotional abuse, domestic violence or torture. 

So in a long term r/s with a BPD I feel like there could be traits of prolong subjection to emotional abuse that lead to post-exposure stress, anxiety, and depression that may be similar enough to the proposed diagnosis of C-PTSD.  And again, I'm not sure if that would qualify as a disorder or not, and it doesn't matter much, as we can learn from the treatment of C-PTSD regardless.

I have refused to look at texts for the past few days in case I have to deal with a confrontation. I have also deactivated FB so people can't contact me. I know I won't answer the door either if anyone comes. I'm still going to work and doing day to day stuff but dread any contact from ex BPD or my best friend he's now pursuing. My body goes into melt down at a received text or landline call where I can't see the caller name. I thinks it's def PTSD. I think this too will pass with time but for now I want to avoid people.

On the question of avoidance  vs. regulated exposure to the anxiety trigger, I'm personally inclined to bite the bullet and actually take my time, calm myself down and eventually look at whatever scared the ___ out of me,\. Since I won't let my mind control me in such a way.  I believe that mindful desensitization is a better way to cope with my anxiety than mere avoidance and let "time do it's thing", as the latter just buries the issues, to be unearthed again on the next occasion while doing no processing and progress.

Over time, this helped me a lot not to go into the meltdown state you described but rather stay in a more controlled state and with repeated exposures to being really ok with it and not even being scared of accidentally stumbling upon her fb postings and even bumping into her face to face; admittedly, most of the time. There are ups and downs... .   So my goal is not to forget or suppress, but rather cope with the anxiety and gracefully detach away.  Letting go in the sense that I release my expectations, release my fear, and perceive her as a separate independent person with her own new life that I have no control over, no responsibility, and no desire to be part of.

Well, I do still feel responsibility for her and desire to be part of her life and desire her to be part of mine... . And that's ok. It just means I have more work to be done on myself to fully understand why is that so and grow out of it.  Fun fun fun :-)

[trappedinlove]

As for my situation, I believe there probably is some PTSD from the physical abuse (head butted multiple times after being threatened for me to give him my hidden gun) and the threats (held in bed with knives, the threat of being thrown down the stairs).  If you did experience serious acts or threats such as these, along with what is discussed in part B, then perhaps you do have PTSD.

I would venture to say that Skip's idea of Acute Stress Disorder (ASD) and Disorders of Extreme Stress (DESNOS) are probably more prevalent vs. PTSD.  :)efinitely something to discuss with a therapist, as PTSD, ASD and DESNOS are not easy to work through on your own.  

Want2know, that sounds like a terrifying experience.  My heart is with you.  This is serious stuff and I can't imagine what you've been through and what you had to deal with after you broke up.

I hope you're doing better now.  So it seems from quickly browsing your profile!

You are very brave.

[Narellan]

I understand what you're saying. It's always been in my nature to confront problems head on so I can stop ruminating and sleep better. However in this situation because I discovered this betrayal of my exBPD and my best friend by means of hacking his FB account I'm stuck in a place where I now have knowledge and power but have to use it wisely. If I confronted either of them it's only going to be bad for me. I'm scared of him and what further damage he could do to me. Because I feel I've hit rock bottom I know I couldn't cope with any more drama and ___ so in this case I'm avoiding. Which goes against my whole personality so it's occupying a lot of emotions for me. I'm really glad I know about their betrayal but in some ways it has been worse for me. I just have to process the pain without venting my disgust to either of them. God I'd love to show my hand and confront her. Also I have thoughts of how much I could destroy her with the information I have on her other affair with the married friend. He is my friend. He doesn't know I know about the ongoing 3 year affair. He is having unprotected sex with my former best friend and she is also having unsafe sex with 4 other young guys from our local footy club, and now she's adding my ex BPD to her list. I would love to secretly let slip to the married guy that she has other partners, not only for he and his wife's safety but for my selfish reasons that I now feel like I want to hurt her back. It would kill her to lose him. The others are all just F buddies, and all have girlfriends. I just have to sit back and not do anything and grieve everything. But she is desperate to text and contact me to ensure everything is still ok between us, cos she knows I can destroy her. That's why I panic at the phone stuff but I've found it helps to keep it on silent and only check it when I'm not distraught. Yes Fun fun fu#* ing fun

[trappedinlove]

Dear Narellan,

I understand what you're saying. It's always been in my nature to confront problems head on so I can stop ruminating and sleep better. However in this situation because I discovered this betrayal of my exBPD and my best friend by means of hacking his FB account I'm stuck in a place where I now have knowledge and power but have to use it wisely.

You might be feeling a mix of betrayal and guilt about the way you found out about it.

If I confronted either of them it's only going to be bad for me. I'm scared of him and what further damage he could do to me.

Can you elaborate on that?

The betrayal is hard enough, what else are you scared of?

Because I feel I've hit rock bottom I know I couldn't cope with any more drama and so in this case I'm avoiding. Which goes against my whole personality so it's occupying a lot of emotions for me. I'm really glad I know about their betrayal but in some ways it has been worse for me. I just have to process the pain without venting my disgust to either of them. God I'd love to show my hand and confront her. Also I have thoughts of how much I could destroy her with the information I have on her other affair with the married friend.

So there is a lot of anger as well but you can't let it out.

All these negative feelings have no way to go right now and this might inflict inwards.

How do you feel about yourself right now?

About the way you found out about your ex affair?

About being angry at him?

About being angry at her?

About the desire to destroy either of them?

He is my friend. He doesn't know I know about the ongoing 3 year affair. He is having unprotected sex with my former best friend and she is also having unsafe sex with 4 other young guys from our local footy club, and now she's adding my ex BPD to her list. I would love to secretly let slip to the married guy that she has other partners, not only for he and his wife's safety but for my selfish reasons that I now feel like I want to hurt her back. It would kill her to lose him. The others are all just F buddies, and all have girlfriends. I just have to sit back and not do anything and grieve everything. But she is desperate to text and contact me to ensure everything is still ok between us, cos she knows I can destroy her.

You seem to be preoccupied  in thoughts about lives that are not your own any more and this is fuelled by feelings of revenge and guilt that complicates it.

You are right to be angry about the people in our life that betrayed you.

Do you have to get revenge on them?  I'm not sure.  It's their f*en life and they can destroy themselves very well without your help.  I think that's something you might want to consider releasing and detaching from as it focuses you energy on THEM rather than on YOU and your healing.  Getting better is the best revenge you can have!   

That's why I panic at the phone stuff but I've found it helps to keep it on silent and only check it when I'm not distraught. Yes Fun fun fu#* ing fun

Keeping your phone on silent and checking it when you're not in distraught sounds like a good way to deal with your anxiety at this point.

How about mindfully examining yourself when you panic?

This can help you detach from your feelings while you acknowledge and examine them.

That 's hard stuff.  Hang in there!

[Narellan]

I dont know how to highlight your questions so will just bullet the answers

- Yes a bit guilty.

- I'm scared of worsening the situation. I feel he is an unkown quantity, he actually refers to himself as being that... . he seemed proud of that.  He has hundreds of nude photos of me (hes a professional photographer). Hes already posted some on fb i had to ask him to delete them. Im filled with anxiety about him posting or displaying on his webpage. Someone on here suggested i write him a formal letter forbiding him to use the pics, but at the moment all is quiet from him and i dont want to escalate him. His ex girlfriend didnt want pics of fb, so he deliberately posted some. I think he has narcissistic traits also. He likes to see that people suffer. Talks about ex gf crying about their breakup with no empathy or clue as to why.

- I dont really think i feel anger towar him. I never have. Its just pain, but i have no desire to see him suffer.

My exbestfriend is a different story. In my mind, i had accepted he would be moving on trying to attach to someone, and since we had split, thats at least logical if not quick. But my friend who has seen me at my worst over this, who pretended to support me, denied having contact with him, name called him, encouraged me to never have contact with him, lied all along about her relationship with him, i feel really angry and hurt by this. I think if i confronted her she would turn to him more, he would blacken me even more and i would be the bad guy.

-Im overwhelmed with my ex friends behaviour because im friends with the partner of the man shes having the affair with. It all sounds so complex, but if i avoid seeing the wife thats being cheated on, i can forget about it, but now and then when our paths cross as they did a week ago, I feel such sorrow for her and what she doesnt know. And then i hate my ex friend more, because shes so ___ing shallow, texts me and says "did you see how frumpy wife looked? He couldnt keep his eyes off me, i made sure i looked so hot" I dont know why i feel guilt about this. I could never do this to my friend, and now shes doing it to me.

- Im feeling exhausted again by all of this. I have to avoid it for now. Ive just completely read through detaching for relationship with BPD and every other pamphlet on here, and i need to just think about me again now.

Thanks for reply

[going places]

A.    The person has been exposed to a traumatic event in which both of the following were present:

        (1) The person experienced, witnessed, or was confronted with an event or events that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self or others.

        (2) The person’s response involved intense fear, helplessness, or horror. Note: In children, this may be expressed instead by disorganized or agitated behavior.

(1) The 'death' of a 20+ year marriage, the 'death' of our family, the 'death' of my marriage.

(2) Fear, horror and helplessness, unimaginable.

B.    The traumatic event is persistently reexperienced in one (or more) of the following ways:

        (3) Recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections of the event, including images, thoughts, or perceptions. Note: In young children, repetitive play may occur in which themes or aspects of the trauma are expressed.

        (4) Recurrent distressing dreams of the event. Note: In children, there may be frightening dreams without recognizable content.

        (5) Acting or feeling as if the traumatic event were recurring (includes a sense of reliving the experience; illusions, hallucinations, and dissociative flashback episodes, including those that occur on awakening or when intoxicated). Note: In young children, trauma-specific reenactment may occur.

        (6) Intense psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event.

        (7) Physiological reactivity on exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event.

(3) To the point I could physically not breathe, and times when I could see the event play out so vividly, it's like I am back in that day, in that moment... . so intense I remember the smell of the air and in the episode, I can smell that smell.

(4) Night terrors, when I do / did sleep, it would wake me up in a sweat, crying, choking... . and in the middle of an episode.

(5) Driving thru a particular town would set this off, and a panic attack would be so intense, I would have to pull the car over because I was on the verge of passing out.

(6) For MONTHS not only were there 'triggers' but the one who caused it, continued to dump more and more shocking, horrifying information on me, making this 10x worse.

(7) Shaking, going from 130lbs (5'7" to 114lbs, in 10 days, seeing things that are not there, hearing things that are not there,

C.    Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and numbing of general responsiveness (not present before the trauma), as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

        (8) Efforts to avoid thoughts, feelings, or conversations associated with the trauma

        (9) Efforts to avoid activities, places, or people that arouse recollections of the trauma

        (10) Inability to recall an important aspect of the trauma

        (11) Markedly diminished interest or participation in significant activities

        (12) Feeling of detachment or estrangement from others

        (13) Restricted range of affect (e.g., unable to have loving feelings)

        (14) Sense of a foreshortened future (e.g., does not expect to have a career, marriage, children, or a normal lifespan)

(8) A "Biblical" counselor we were seeing right after the affair told me in order to be a forgiving person, I had to 1. Never mention anything about the event to my stbex, Never mention the event to ANYONE else, and Never think about it again. I wanted to be forgiving, so I tried so hard to follow these 3 rules. My doc said this was the 2nd most devastating thing done to me. When I told her this, she actually went from standing to sitting, and cried.

(9)100%

(10) I wish.

(11) 100%

(12) 100%

(13) 100%

(14) 150%

D. Persistent symptoms of increased arousal (not present before the trauma), as indicated by two (or more) of the following:

        (1) Difficulty falling or staying asleep

        (2) Irritability or outbursts of anger

        (3) Difficulty concentrating

        (4) Hypervigilance

        (5) Exaggerated startle response

E.    Duration of the disturbance (symptoms in Criteria B, C, and D) is more than 1 month.

F.    The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

(1) This is getting better. Insomnia that made me a zombie... . because I didn't want to go to sleep because of the night terrors.

(2) Numb to intense fear to episode. It was horrifying.

(3) I could not finish sentences. i could not cook a meal. I could not do anything that required prolonged periods of thinking. God help me if I had to make a decision (pick this or that)... . because for more than a year, I could not.

(4) Startle response is awful. Still to this day, I will jump clean out of my skin. NEVER before was I like this.

(5) Hyper vig. because I was jacked up on adrenaline and cortisol (naturally) waiting for the next shoe to drop, or more mind bending news, or him to leave, or or or... . yeah. It was insane.

E. It has been almost 3 years since the onset of PTSD, Praise the Lord I have not had an episode since February 2014.

Now that stbex is not in the bedroom w me anymore, I do sleep 'better'.

Night terrors are all but gone... .

F. Lost an amazing job. Went thru 3 more after that.

Didn't want to leave the house, didn't answer my  phone for DAYS.

Panic attack deluxe when I would go to the grocery.

I could go on and on.


I have come SO FAR since 8-2011.

By the Grace of God, I will walk out of this fog... . and I will not only survive, but I WILL thrive.

[Dutched]

After +30 yrs R/S more than 3 yrs out now. Oh yes, I can relate to all above! Still not healed, far from that actually.

Besides that going “cold turkey” as she blew all up in a blink of an eye, I had to take care of S19 (now). 

Had to tow and push him with the energy left in me, just for his wellbeing (and exams, which he successfully passed). Continuously mail to his “mom” in order to make her aware of her cold an irresponsible behaviour towards my son, draining again and again. 

D23(now) broke contact with me! NC since more than 2 yrs, although I reached out to her several times.

Again pain, more intense pain! Moving forward though, no, not moving on!

  Really thanks for this post and all comments as sometimes I question myself for the long recovery. I am not an exception as more of us with several decades of marriage walks that long road.   

[intoashell]

I am committed to examining my actions and working hard to heal with a therapist (seems like that may be a long time a way). PTSD is certainly something I am not going to overlook and will discuss with the professionals (in the same way , I sought professional opinion on my ex boyfriend and his UBPD and possible treatment options).

I certainly hit A,B and C at the moment and I take feeling that I have suffered A very seriously. In my case being put in difficult situations when he would talk about suicide, threats of self harm, not seeming to care about harm to others including myself has left me very very beaten.

He also would refuse to seek help or discuss this with professionals leaving me isolated and as A2 describes helpless, frightened and in horror. equally as horrifying was when out in public this would change. I would be a distressed wreck after what had gone on/been said - He would be tucking into a 3 course meal encouraging me to book up to an expensive holiday for me and him in 6 months time?

I do feel parts of B and C . My nightmares involve running away from somthing and it is continuously chasing me and at present I feel nauseous when seeing things that remind me of stuff. Annoyingly this includes a room in my flat where he went for me and places where I was stuck feeling such distress and unable to voice this due to fear of his anger/ threats.

I hope it gets better, am prepared to do whatever it takes to get there.