Advice

[busyscmom]

I've posted my daughter's story on another thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating myself.

21 year old daughter went into therapy when she was 17. I didn't know her problems ran so deep. Just figured she needed to grow up and remember what she had learned in church. Her main issues at that time were lying, stealing, and drama-filled relationships. She had been caught lying to a teacher and said she had thought about suicide. I thought she was manipulating me into feeling sorry for her so I wouldn't be angry about the lying. But I didn't want to take any chances so she started therapy. My insurance for therapy eventually ran out and her dad quit paying child support when she turned 18, so she quit therapy.  If I had only known then how serious her problems really were.  I'm feeling very guilty about that.

She had a good first year of college except she had to change roommates (drama again!).  She had good grades, got along great with the second roommate, and was doing really well. The second year however, was a total failure. She failed almost all her classes, her new bf broke up with her, but she couldn't let him go. She basically stalked him for almost a year afterwards. She has cystic fibrosis and was in and out of the hospital that year (up until then, she had been very healthy and had only been hospitalized once). Her take on self-harming is not taking her medication.  She will lie and says she takes it, but I find it all over the place... . in her purse, in drawers, in her car, etc. I think she must want me to know she doesn't take it or she would throw it away or flush it.

I had to bring her home from school last year because her CF doctor said she was going to kill herself if she didn't take better care of herself and told me to bring her home. She was very angry about it, but she got physically healthy and had a part time job for a while (even though she caused drama there too).

She met a new bf (who seems like the nicest bf she's ever had) and things were great at first. But then the drama started, like it always does. She went back to school and is staying at his apartment while he's away for basic training in the army. They were semi-broken up by the time he left. His family doesn't want their son dating her (they had heard about her "psycho" behavior with the ex-bf). To make matters much worse, I recently found out she's pregnant. She's now having even more drama with the guy's parents; they say she's going to hell and she's a bad influence on their son. She got another serious respiratory infection and had to get a PICC line for antibiotics. She wasn't doing the IVs so her CF specialist wanted to put her in the hospital (and have a psych consult while she was there), but she's refusing to go. She says she's feeling fine and not going to the hospital. I tried to reason with her that she's risking not only her own life, but her child too, but that got me no where.

I found a therapist in the town where's she's in school, but she's refusing to make an appointment.  I don't want to alienate her and get her on the defensive (any more than I already did when I suggested she have an abortion).  I'm sure she feels ganged up on. Everybody, from her father, to the CF doctor, to the ob/gyn have recommended she not try to have a baby because of her health.  But she will not listen to anybody.  I'm trying really hard to validate her feelings and be empathetic, but it's so hard. She may not recover from having a baby with her health as fragile as it is. I am so sad that she may have a child that won't know his mother. And I am overcome with sadness that I may lose my beautiful, sweet, and funny daughter even earlier than I thought.

I've read Stop Walking on Eggshells and Loving Somebody (the book jacket says the author is in the same town where my daughter is in school... . small world), but am feeling totally overwhelmed right now. I've had to start therapy myself to try to deal with this. My therapist has suggested I not let her come home. She'll be finished with school in 4 weeks. The bf comes back in June, but she doesn't want to still be in his apartment when he gets back. With her health problems, a full time job is out of the question. What am I supposed to do? She's a 21 year old pregnant CF patient with BPD. She won't have anywhere else to go. I'm praying she will make up with the bf, but the typical "he's perfect" has turned into finding a million things wrong with him. I think she's even dating somebody else.

I sent her the therapist's name, address, and phone number, along with a check (made out to him) to pay him. But I doubt she'll make an appointment. He specializes in mood disorders and DBT and I know he could help her, but she says she's fine and doesn't need to talk to anybody. I am feeling guilty that 3 years ago she admitted she needed help, but I just didn't see how serious her problems were. 

Anybody have any advice for me? Brokenhearted, guilty, sad, confused, and overwhelmed.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

Dear busyscmom

I am sorry that your struggles with your dd only get worse as time goes on.

   

Article 6:  Helping a Loved-One with Borderline Personality Disorder Seek Treatment

Caring, loving and wanting to help are all natural feelings. Giving what you intuitively think is needed is often not the help that someone else wants, needs or knows how to accept - and this can be very frustrating to you and to them. Whether you'd like to rescue them to truly "save them," or to end their pain, or more selfishly have them "in your life" you can only lead. They can choose to follow in their own time and way. Understanding how to lead requires training. Understanding your capacity and capability to do so, requires much self reflection.

According to Dr. Xavier Amador, professor in Clinical Psychology at Columbia University, denial is a most powerful deterrent to recovery in mental illness. What is often thought to be immaturity, stubbornness, and defensiveness is a much more complex and difficult problem. Amador and his colleagues found in a 1998 study that nearly sixty percent (60%) of patients with mental illness did not believe they were ill. And trying to convince them often made matters worse



Ultimately, change is a choice. Change can only take place when a person chooses it for him/herself. It cannot be imposed. We can only support them in their choices. And if we need something in our lives, or in any relationship to change, we, ourselves, must change. We cannot extend over their personal boundaries and expect them to change for us

This is from an article on getting your loved one to seek help... . it is hard to watch our children struggle like this and offen we are just helpless to do anything about it.

Your dd has the added burden of being sick... . she has had you taking care of her since she was young... . do you think she is rebelling against this in a way... . I think sometimes these kids feel like so much of waht they do is dictated to them and they are longing for some control over their life... . do you think that fits your dd? Has this become more a power struggle between the two of you? I might try to find a way to support her through this tough time without telling her what she needs to do? Maybe if you can get to some common ground she might be open to taking advise from you... . take care of yourself and I hope you get a few more responses from the group... .

[peaceplease]

busycmom,

I am sorry about the complications of your dd being pregnant and having CF.  And - the ex bf's parents being so judgmental towards your dd is not helpful.  Guess they haven't heard that we are not to judge! 

Do not beat yourself up.   You did not know the extent of her illness.

Here is a workshop that you may want to look at:  Workshop - US: What it means to be in the “FOG”

Please take care.

peacepelase

[Aknight]

I'm new and I don't have much advice, but I can certainly empathize with you.  I live with my daughter and her military husband because I take care of the 2-year old grandbaby.  My daughter can't.  But, it's best for the baby that she see her mom, even if it's like this.  I, like you, didn't want her to not know her. 

My daughter didn't refuse therapy, but no one in this area would help her.  It was only when I walked in on her cutting herself and called 911 did she get the help she needed.  Thinking back (and my family telling me) I should have done this when she was 15, but I didn't want to accept how bad it was.  In her moments of clarity, she tells me, "If my daughter was in that much pain, I would drag her to the hospital kicking and screaming."  So, this time, I did. She begged and pleaded for me not to, but I did.  And she finally has a diagnosis that fits, medication that helps the moods (we are still working on it), and I have something to work with.

At 18, she moved around and even when she first had the baby she would keep her from me when she was mad at me, refuse to communicate with me, and was not in very good, stable places.  Because of that, I give you the advice that I ended up having to do:  if she comes to your door, open it.  Never give up on her.  Don't let her abuse you in any way, but never shut that door.

As for the therapy, all you can do is give her the information and offer her a ride.

Hope this helps.  So sorry.

[jellibeans]

Dear Aknight

I simply love what you wrote... . it really hit my heart

[busyscmom]

Thank you jellibeans and peaceplease for your responses. I know we're all struggling and I appreciate you taking time to reply.

I spoke with my daughter about therapy again. She says she's "fine."  Her CF is exacerbated and needs to go to the hospital. She's pregnant and had no prenatal care the first few months. She's living in her "ex-bf's" apartment (while he's in basic training), but is dating someone else!  I don't call that fine, even though I know in her mind, she's fine. All I know I can do is give her the therapist's name, his number, and a check to pay, if she wants to go. I told her it was her decision. It's killing me, but I know that's all I can do.

I tried to tell her that she needed to have some kind of relationship with the "ex" for the baby, even if they don't get back together.  I suggested that they could benefit from some counseling together when he gets back from basic training in June to coparent this child. She wasn't interested. She has posted pics all over Instagram and Twitter of the new bf, even though she's told me she's not seeing anyone.  (Lying again.) The "ex" will get his phone back next week and will see the pics.  Some of them were taken in his apartment! And she seems to think that's OK. And I don't know if I should have said this or not, but I suggested to her that taking down those pics might be a good idea.

I never know what to say to her anymore.  I told my therapist yesterday that I tried to validate my d's feelings and have empathy for her, but she told me to be her mother, not her therapist.  I'm not sure how I'm supposed to handle her any more.

Still frustrated, confused, and sad.

[jellibeans]

Dear busyscmom

I think it is best to just take a step back and see how thing proceed. The more you try to push the more she pulls. Keep in contact with her and monitor her but back off of the advise for now until she asks and see how that goes. Maybe her new bf is looking after her now... .

[busyscmom]

My d21 came from from school for the weekend.  I tried to be empathetic and supportive, but it was beyond difficult.

Two weeks ago, the boyfriend/fiance (that's off for basic training) was her best friend and soul mate (her words, not mine.)  Her social media pages were full of pictures of their engagements photos, posting she couldn't wait for him to get back, his phone calls were so emotional, etc.  He is a great guy who the whole family loves and he is so in love with my d and would do anything for her.

The d21 now has a new bf (still lying to me about him), hates the "ex" bf and wants nothing to do with him. He gets his phone back in 2 days when basic is over and he is going to be heart broken when he sees her social media posts about the new bf.  I tried to gently tell her (after I had tried my best to be supportive and empathetic) that he was going to be upset and perhaps it would be best for her if she deleted them. Her response was she would just block his number. 

She's still in the "ex's" apartment and will definitely need to be moved out before he gets back from basic (the college semester is over in 3 weeks).  I'm afraid she is going to want to come home and to be honest, I don't want her to. But she really has nowhere else to go. Her cystic fibrosis keeps her from having a full time job and paying her own bills.

Two days ago, the d21 had new ultrasounds of the baby, had picked out a name for him, and wanted to go shopping for baby clothes when she came home this weekend.  Today, out of the blue, she says she wants to have an abortion.  I think it's too late for one, but she's calling her ob/gyn in the morning.  WOW!  Really?  I didn't know how to react or what to say!

She's been erratic before, but this is WAY beyond anything she's ever done.  I think my head is going to explode!

What am I supposed to do now?

[jellibeans]

Holy cow! I would just sit back and see where this all goes... . you are probably right and it is too late... . did she say why she had a change of heart?

[busyscmom]

I asked her why she changed her mind.  She just kept saying she didn't want to have to deal with the ex-bf's family.  And she didn't want to have him in her life (even though he was her soul mate 3 weeks ago?) because she hated him and wants nothing to do with him. She's dating somebody else, even though she won't admit it to me.  Maybe that has something to do with it.  Who knows with her?

When she left to go back to school last night, she was going to call the ob/gyn this am and I kept expecting to hear from her, but didn't.  I just texted to say I was here if she needed me and left it at that. 

I'll just have to sit tight, work on my own codependence issues, and wait.  But it sure is hard. I don't feel like I even know who she is any more. 

[jellibeans]

busyncmom

I don't think there is anything you can do right now. Knowing people with BPD and how they change their minds frequently today she could be feeling very differently. Do you know how many weeks she is? Does her new bf even know she is pregnant? Are sure sure she is really pregnant? I have learned not to believe much of my my dd says... . she can build a lie around anything. The thought process is numbing!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[busyscmom]

My daughter is definitely pregnant... . saw the pregnancy test myself.

She has now decided to terminate the pregnancy.  Her pulmonologist and ob/gyn have been saying it would be life threatening for her to have a baby for months, but she now seems ready to accept it.  Plus, the semester is over and it wouldn't interfere with school. 

Unfortunately, she's waited so late, it will require a hospital stay (due to her cystic fibrosis making her high risk and the fragile state her body is in).  And the hospital wants $2000 upfront.  Ouch!  I just paid taxes and am tapped out.  She could ask her dad for the money, but she refuses to. 

I know I have always rescued her and tried to fix her problems, which is part of the problem.  I know that.  But I don't know how to not help her get the money.  Having a baby will probably shorten her life.  Then there's a child without a mother to think about.

Anybody have any advice?  Do I just let her have the baby or do I borrow the money to help her? 

[theplotthickens]

How heartbreaking to hear about.    It sounds like your daughter if far enough along in her pregnancy that she has a real, fully formed baby.  Hence, the need for a 2,000 late term abortion.  A late-term abortion will surely be more traumatic to her body and mind than a live birth.   

It sounds like she is going to have a 'baby' one way or another; the only question is whether they will deliver it live or dead.  Is there some denial on her part as to how far along she is? 

If it were my daughter, I would take her to a Christian crisis pregnancy center, where they could educate her on the development of the baby, give her an ultrasound, talk to her the possibility of making an adoption plan.  A late-term abortion would not be an option I would pay for or consider supporting.

[busyscmom]

She's 9 weeks pregnant right now.  Because of her respiratory and heart problems, active MRSA and Pseudomonas infections, low lung function, and low body weight, she probably won't live long after the baby is born, if she has it.  That's why her specialists have been recommending a termination since the beginning.  I will support a termination if it saves my "child's" life and if it's what she decides, I can't do much about that. 

The upfront $2000 is because she has a balance at the hospital.  She's been hospitalized 8 times in the past year, with one infection after another. 

The father (the ex-bf) won't agree to an adoption, so she doesn't think that's an option. 

[jeb]

To busyscmom,

My dd25 has stated that she is going to have a child on her own before she is 35 regardless of whether she has found "Mr. Right" and considering how high she has set the bar no man is ever going to be 'good enough'.  She has never had a bf and will soon be 26.  Even though I think this decision of hers might be a disaster considering all of her other mental health issues and it is hard enough raising a child with 2 parent as my ex and I found out but in the end it is her decision.  However she does not have a physical life-threatening illness like CF; although her anorexia at one time was life-threatening many years ago.

In your situation, as I am an atheist, my entire concern would be about how life-threatening this situation is for your dd and it sounds very life-threatening with her having CF.  I guess given the options I would rather save my daughter's life and have her get the abortion.  She is still in her first trimester at 9 weeks and even if one doesn't believe in abortion for religious reasons I can't see wanting to have a grandchild and have your daughter lose her life.   Who knows if she can even carry this baby to term? I would go with the ob/gyn doctor on this one.

You have a real plateful especially with all this bf and ex-bf stuff going on as well!

[co.jo]

This is such a difficult situation. I know all the stuff about not rescuing, etc, but if this was my beloved daughter whose health was already so compromised, I would find the $2000. Just saying that so if you decide for that, you won't feel guilty! I bet most of us would do the same.

[jellibeans]

busyscmom

Just checking in on you... . do you have an update for us? Hope all is well in your world.

[Pizzas123]

Yes busyscmom, please let us know how things are going.  I sympathize with you.  My daughter, 30, is pregnant, and we have had the whole host of familiar problems with her, including cheating on new husband, posting objectionable photos on facebook for all to see, just like you. Hurtful and so unkind to her husband, who was for a short time, her "soul mate".  Anorexia, Bulimia, drugs, lying, etc. - yes, we've had it all with her.   She considered abortion, which her now estranged husband wanted, but she couldn't go through with it.  As I've posted elsewhere, my husband and I are so worried, and just plain scared, about the future for her and this child. 

I can't imagine having the health issues on top of everything else, as you are dealing with.  My heart truly goes out to you, and I am so sorry for this very difficult situation you find yourself in.  I will not forget you in my prayers, and send warm hugs to you. Please keep us updated.   

[busyscmom]

Thank you jellibeans, co.jo, pizzas123 and others for your prayers, support, and advice.  It means so much for this message board to exist!

My daughter's ob/gyn told her she had placenta previa and would probably miscarry, especially with her delicate medical condition and referred her to a specialist out of town.  The doctor there recommended the pregnancy be terminated and my d agreed.  I would like to think she agreed because she's a logical person, but I really think she agreed because she had a new bf and he didn't know she was pregnant.  The termination was traumatic for me, but didn't seem to affect her much.  Sigh.

She has been in the hospital for over a week because of cystic fibrosis related problems.  I've been torn over how much time to spend with her in the hospital and am confused about what my role with that is.  At first she didn't want me there and I didn't see her for 5 days, but then said I could see her.  She then wanted me to spend the night and I stayed for 3 days.  When I left last night to come back home, she was angry.  I know she felt like I abandoned her, but I had to get back to work today.

The good news is she confided in me that she is numb and empty and knows she's depressed.  A step in the right direction!  She had a psych consult and has been put on Lexapro.  Thank goodness the nurses are watching her take her meds so I know she's getting them.  (She was given potassium in apple juice last night and did, however, dump that in the sink when the nurse left the room.)  She's on 3 different IV antibiotics, so she's getting those too. 

She is still complaining she's in a lot of pain and is constantly asking for pain meds.  I think the pain is more emotional than physical.  The nurses are very nice to her and I think she's enjoying the non-stop attention. 

She did have a new bf, but I didn't see him at the hospital.  Yes, I did the codependent thing and checked his Facebook page; his status is now single when he did say he was in a relationship with her.  I did notice they were texting.  She was also texting 2 other ex-bfs.

She was Skyping with the ex-fiance that is still away with the Army, but coming home on June 5.  My d is still living in his apartment.  He sent me a text though last night to say he realizes his relationship with my d isn't working.  I'm torn between trying to explain to him why or just let them keep fighting, breaking up, getting back together, repeat.  But it sounds like he's had enough.  She was upset when he told her she was bipolar and said he was being mean to her.  I'm sure she seems that way to him. 

My d says she realizes she hit rock bottom (I think she did that 2 years ago!), so I'm hopeful she will now get help.  I'm also trying to be realistic, since she can change her mind in a split second.

[jellibeans]

Dear busymom

I am so sorry about your loss. I am not a religious person but I do feel that all things happen for a reason. This I am sure good all around but sad at the same time.

I would try and let your dd take charge of her future. I am glad she is in the hospital at least and getting the care she needs. What do you think is her next step now that she beleives she has hit bottom? Is the a T she can talk with. I am sure this is a very hard time for her and she could benefit from talking with someone about what has gone on. When do you think your dd will be released?

[theplotthickens]

I am very sorry for your loss.  I cannot imagine what you are doing through.  It is hard when whatever we do for our kids, it is never enough.  Staying with her 3 days was such a way to bless her and support her emotionally.  But is is never enough, is it?  If your daughter experience post-abortive depression, which is very common, there are groups through your local preganancy center who can help her work throught it.  Many experience feelings of grief and loss, and it helps to talk to others who experience the same thing.   I hope that this is a turning point for her, and I am sure she is feeling sad and empty, even if she doesn't like to show it or talk about it.  It seems like health care professionals sometimes sweep feelings under the rug, preferring to talk about the physical, anatomical side of things.

I wish you peace!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders