Maybe they're just bad people

[jp254958]

I'm a long time out. Haven't written much for a long time and only pop in once in a while.

I did the thing where I tried to give the benefit of the doubt by blaming the personality disorder, tried blaming the underdeveloped brain, blaming their unnurturing parents during the early childhood stage. You know what?  Maybe they're just bad people. Maybe they're just people who are rotten. People who make the bad choices in how they act when others would have acted differently.

Sometimes we look for reasons to explain why bad things happened (e.g., Oswald didn't act alone.)  It gives us an answer why bad people do the things they do.  It gives them a pass because we can't believe that we were so vulnerable and can't fathom why someone would do something or so much so rotten.

But maybe they just are that. Rotten people who have no excuse for what they do... . but they do it anyway for whatever reason. Fear. Weakness. We all have choices. So do they. They did what they did to us and didn't have to do it that way. But they did.

Our part... . which many elders on this board suggest... . is that we followed a path that was normalcy in our early childhood lives due to our own dysfunctional parents. We're repeating what we grew up with because our parents didn't give us the affection we needed and deserved. That the problem resides within ourselves. Some of this is true. But every relationship wasn't like thos for most of us. Sometimes we were prey for nasty people who sucked us dry. We may have contributed to the conditions based on a void in our lives,  but maybe we were just people eager to find something we wanted and yet were ripped to shreds for that very desire. Maybe they're that fish that uses a tongue that looks like bait, and we fell for the trap.

Don't put yourself down. Love yourself. Realize that you deserve way better than what you received from that piece of s.  Realize that you need to improve your self-esteem and until you do, you will always be a target for those who manipulate your weaknesses. 

WE DESERVED BETTER. We should all realize that and act accordingly.

[Emelie Emelie]

JP - I think I do deserve better.  However this rs did a number on my self esteem and I know I need to work on that.

Do I think they're bad people?  I don't think my ex is a "bad person".  He acts pretty "bad" sometimes but I do believe that's because of his BPD.  He compensates for his BPD by being a really good person in other areas of his life.  I know he deals with a lot of shame and guilt as a result of his BPD behaviors. 

[AwakenedOne]

But every relationship wasn't like this for most of us.

I never had a relationship like this before.

I have never been hit by any other girlfriend.

I have never been called a curse word by any other girlfriend.

I have never been demeaned by any other girlfriend.

I have never been told so many lies by any other girlfriend.

I have never heard another girlfriend say GD hundreds of times.

I have never had girlfriend that holds a grudge and punishes like this

I have never had a girlfriend that I feared could actually kill me.

[Take2]

But every relationship wasn't like this for most of us.

I never had a relationship like this before.

I have never been hit by any other girlfriend.

I have never been called a curse word by any other girlfriend.

I have never been demeaned by any other girlfriend.

I have never been told so many lies by any other girlfriend.

I have never heard another girlfriend say GD hundreds of times.

I have never had girlfriend that holds a grudge and punishes like this

I have never had a girlfriend that I feared could actually kill me.

Exactly - all of that (except it was I never had a boyfriend like this... . )

[LettingGo14]

I offer an alternative perspective, which is only an opinion -- and it is offered respectfully into the discussion.  Our brains sort things into categories, often defaulting to binary categories, like good and bad, persecutor and victim.  It's sometimes necessary to understand the chaos of the world around us.   And, I fully acknowledge the fact that evil exists in the world, as well as evil and incomprehensible acts.

That said, when it comes to processing the end of my relationship -- which devastated me emotionally as much as any event in my life -- I choose to look inward now.   Understanding BPD helps me let go of the shame and blame I felt for the end of the relationship, and the BS that accompanied it. 

For me, in context of healing from my relationship, applying labels of good vs. evil, rotten vs. codependent, hunter vs. prey, would keep me stuck.   It would be like a "sorting" of humanity, and I resist that because the world is a messy, chaotic, multifaceted, and still amazing place.

It sucks to hurt, but I'm learning to hurt.  It sucks to forgive, but I'm learning to forgive.  It sucks to let go of a piece of me I valued, but I'm learning to let go.  Why?  Because it's part of being human, and I want to be fully human.  Right or wrong, I'm going to grieve the end of my relationship, and find my path.

[Waifed]

I'm a long time out. Haven't written much for a long time and only pop in once in a while.

I did the thing where I tried to give the benefit of the doubt by blaming the personality disorder, tried blaming the underdeveloped brain, blaming their unnurturing parents during the early childhood stage. You know what?  Maybe they're just bad people. Maybe they're just people who are rotten. People who make the bad choices in how they act when others would have acted differently.

Sometimes we look for reasons to explain why bad things happened (e.g., Oswald didn't act alone.)  It gives us an answer why bad people do the things they do.  It gives them a pass because we can't believe that we were so vulnerable and can't fathom why someone would do something or so much so rotten.

But maybe they just are that. Rotten people who have no excuse for what they do... . but they do it anyway for whatever reason. Fear. Weakness. We all have choices. So do they. They did what they did to us and didn't have to do it that way. But they did.

Our part... . which many elders on this board suggest... . is that we followed a path that was normalcy in our early childhood lives due to our own dysfunctional parents. We're repeating what we grew up with because our parents didn't give us the affection we needed and deserved. That the problem resides within ourselves. Some of this is true. But every relationship wasn't like thos for most of us. Sometimes we were prey for nasty people who sucked us dry. We may have contributed to the conditions based on a void in our lives,  but maybe we were just people eager to find something we wanted and yet were ripped to shreds for that very desire. Maybe they're that fish that uses a tongue that looks like bait, and we fell for the trap.

Don't put yourself down. Love yourself. Realize that you deserve way better than what you received from that piece of s.  Realize that you need to improve your self-esteem and until you do, you will always be a target for those who manipulate your weaknesses. 

WE DESERVED BETTER. We should all realize that and act accordingly.

JP

I think you are spot on. My ex was a bad person beneath the facade she carried publicly and with me for as long as she could. It doesn't matter what the label says she is a horribly selfish, uncaring individual with no self respect or morals. No one deserves to sleep with the enemy. I am far enough out now that I can look back and see what a heartless person she was. She had a chance of a lifetime and never could even get herself into the game. My happiness comes at the expense of her loss and for that I am eternally grateful.

For those that are in the early recovery stages keep your heads up, maintain your dignity and keep working on yourself mentally and physically. Do it for YOU, nobody else. You WILL be free from the pain and suffering even though it is unimaginable right now. Be kind to yourself. Ruminating is so hurtful at times but it is your minds way of processing and repairing itself. Don't fight it. Keep a journal of you journey to recovery. One day soon enough you will be freed from the trauma bondage and will once again notice the birds singing. Until then keep putting one foot in front of the other and try to experience life to your fullest potential.

[bruised]

JP,

Thanks for posting this.

Believing that my ex-friend had BPD helped me detach. It allowed me to believe that her awful behaviours towards me weren't about me- they were about her and her BPD.

However, now that the pain is gone I have been able to go back and revisit some of the events that occurred during our relationship. In the last week or so I have started thinking that she is just a nasty person. Maybe she has BPD; maybe she doesn't. But she does know she has 'issues' and she refuses to deal with them. She is angry with the world and takes it out on those closest to her. She continues to ruin the lives of other people close to her. Thank God I'm no longer one of them.

All the best.

[Inside]

I can’t defend it, as I’ll likely always feel a victim, but here’s something I’d pondered.  To ‘survive’ in an alien world, pwBPD become expert at deception.  I considered mine ‘higher functioning’ or ‘invisible.’  At first, they use deception to survive.  But after they discover how ‘easy’ it is to deceive – that’s where their lack of character begins.

Evil?  It likely reaches that point.  I suspect the purest of BPD’s are those who actually take themselves out (sad to say) … leaving those willing to perfect their deception.  Of course they’ve a multitude of ways to ‘justify’ their lying and cheating …and it’s of course (always) ‘our fault.’  It’s said they’ve a boat-load of shame.  Mine must have kept hers well hidden, though thinking back, it was there (slathered with a heavy dose of arrogance and entitlement)…  

The best they can do is obtain a temporary high based on mirroring the behavior of a real person while promoting an unsustainably intense romance.  After they burn out, what appears to be left is a forever immature adult wannabe incapable of living up to the full potential of a human being.  They seek the same as us … but just can’t do it.  I suspect they’re fooling themselves as much as they have us into believing they can actually make a relationship work.  

The day they blame themselves may be the bottom they need to finally hit before enlightenment, treatment and acceptance.  If they continue to blame ‘us,’ they’ll simply do it again…  Whatever our views and however much we suffer, we can/ will heal, learn, and move on.  They can’t.  Are they evil for making yet another attempt … or just sad?   Very sad and broken beings... .  

[myself]

We're all going to get where we're going. Good, bad, and mostly mixed.

There's a difference between weighing it out and being extreme.

No matter which terms you use, there's no real answer in projection.

What's common in all of these stories? On both sides? PAIN.

People have to DO something about that to change it.

So it's more about who is reaching for what? Accepting what?

[Ihope2]

But maybe they just are that. Rotten people who have no excuse for what they do... . but they do it anyway for whatever reason. Fear. Weakness. We all have choices. So do they. They did what they did to us and didn't have to do it that way. But they did.

Maybe their brains just work differently to those of Nons.  In fact, neuroscience has established this already, hasn't it.

Let's stop demonizing people with BPD.  They have a serious personality disorder.  There but for the grace of God, go I.

[BorisAcusio]

But maybe they just are that. Rotten people who have no excuse for what they do... . but they do it anyway for whatever reason. Fear. Weakness. We all have choices. So do they. They did what they did to us and didn't have to do it that way. But they did.

Maybe their brains just work differently to those of Nons.  In fact, neuroscience has established this already, hasn't it.

Let's stop demonizing people with BPD.  They have a serious personality disorder.  There but for the grace of God, go I.

There are two extreme opinions that keep us stucked. One is considering them some kind of evil creatures and the other is that they are "good souls in distress".

The truth is, in many ways they are arrested development at a very early age. Would you consider a toddler evil? I don't think so. On the other hand, we can pretty much "measure" what personality traits makes a "good people" which is in fact, synonymous to emotionally "mature enough", remaining completely in the narrative of modern psychology. They simply hasn't developed most of those qualities.

[woodsposse]

 

In my humble opinion, it is easy for those of us who have been so bitterly hurt by a pwPD to demonize the person.  I'm sure a lot of us didn't realize we were getting involved with someone with a personality disorder, and even if we had found out (or had known going into it) - it didn't register to us (for whatever reason) and we just saw the person as a person.

So when the bad things happen, when the chaos starts, when the lies and cheating and insanity comes about, all we know is that our s/o cheated on us or gets irrationally upset on things we didn't say or things we didn't do.  We still have it in us to see them as the person we fell in love with and have our heart in their hands - while they are crushing it with every step.

Yes, they may have BPD (or any other personaility disorder) but at the end of the day... . this doesn't give them a free pass and all of their behaviors get a wash.  It may be a disorder and they may be ill... . but the behaviors, to us, still hurt like hurt!

The real healing is to understand as much about the disorder as possible, integrate that into knowing who the person really is - and in the case if you can / want to  stay with that person, learn better ways to protect yourself as well as be there to support your loved one.

In the case where you must leave (or they left), again learn as much about the disorder as possible, find ways to protect yourself... . and be well with yourself.

Once I came to this board and realized I was living with (married to) a woman who suffers from BPD, I then was forced to ask myself why did I stay all these years?  Why did I allow all the breakups and get back togethers.  Why did I allow myself to be in a relationship where the arguments didn't make sense - or that history gets re-written and made me out to always be the bad guy?

Then I realized, I did the same thing in my first marriage (although that r/s didn't last very long, but it was just as messed up)... . and a previous r/s with a woman who was just out to get her needs met anyway she could.  All the way back to home... . my mother (who, I recently found out was diagnosed over 30 years ago).

I was born and raised in an environment where I was always around a person with severe personality disorders.  It became my normal.  All the anxiety inside of me - all of the putting up with the chaos - all the wanting to just change things to make them right was my normal.  I didn't know any better.

Boundaries?  What boundaries?  Oh I had them - but these women didn't care about my boundaries.

And since I didn't stand up for my own boundaries, they could continue to do whatever they wanted (while I continue to get hurt, angry, frustrated, feeling unloved, unwanted... . until they throw a scrap of something my way and I felt okay for a minute... . until the insanity started again).

I'm saying all this to say... . once we know what a thing is - then we can understand it.

After coming to this understanding of what I have actually been going through - when me and my recent GF hit a wall (something came to light which was a serious boundary busting deal breaker)... . I knew I couldn't stay.  Regardless if I felt I wanted to stay just so as to not be alone again... . I had to go.

In all my ruminations (before coming to this site), I would get so down on myself and say "why did I allow my wife to do XYZ and I stayed?"  - 'I should have never let her come back after the first time we split up when I caught her cheating!"  If I could go back in time and never let that happen, I would.

Things like that.

So what happens if your new s/o (who you are sure isn't ill) cheats on you?  They aren't disordered - they are just a liar and a cheater.  Do you not demonize them and their behavior - or do you "love them" where they are regardless of their actions?

Or do you protect yourself, lick your wound, and walk away?  I mean - if your boundaries say anyone who cheats on you can't be around you... . and someone cheats on you... . then they have to go, right? There is nothing wrong with that.  No demonizing.  It is just they did somethings which are big hurtful stuff - and they must go... . and you must protect yourself.

So... . all I'm saying is - yes a person suffering from BPD is ill and they are who they are.  The hurt and pain and anger and frustration their behaviors can cause are very damanging.  But we have the ability to see it, understand it and deal with it and try our best to keep our happiness and wellness in check.