FOG or something more?

[razemarie]

I am on month 2 of LC with my ex.  Every since I ended things he has sent me strings of texts begging me to come back, give him another chance, etc.  He refuses to acknowledge the relationship is over.  He switches from idolizing me to hating me many times throughout the week.  He made two suicide threats during the first week and then stopped after I threatened to call the police.  Other than that I have not responded to anything that did not directly have to do with our kid.  Today when I met him to pick up my 3 year old son he kept trying to corner me and "talk."  I calmly explained that I was in a hurry to get to church and was not going to discuss anything further about the relationship.  He got very upset and sat in his car with his head against the steering wheel.  I didn't hear from him for a few hours after I drove away.  Then he sent me the texts below.  I need help determining if this is something I should ignore or if I should reach out to someone and let them know I am concerned.  He has a history of saying things like this and in the past I have always immediately responded.  I am sure he is trying to get attention since he isn't getting it any other way.  Just hoping for advice if I should take it to the next level or ignore it.  He kind of fluctuates from one thing to another, so my thought is this is FOG.

Texts from him:  

"I can not believe this time has actually come.  I've hit a road block I can't get around.  Just so you know... . it will be this week.  Thank you for everything.  It sucks to be lost."

"Just wanted a chance.  If only u knew."

"I have no idea what I am doing anymore.  I am so hurt.  It gets worse by the day.  Please let me show you how much I need you and my son.  It drives me nuts.  All we need to do is hang out again."

"Please let me show you.  It can't end like this."

"I love you with everything I got.  Please don't do this.  Give me one last chance."

[Emelie Emelie]

I'm sorry you're going through this Razemarie.  Aside from the threat of self harm I got the same sort of messages from my xBF.  I did go back.  He dumped me again four months later.  Everything about me was wrong. 

I think in the moment he means every word he's saying.  He is desperate for another chance with you.  It doesn't mean that he can deal with his issues or your relationship any better than he did before. 

How do you feel about it?  Do you still love him?  Would you like to give the relationship another chance or are you just worried about him?  Does he have family members near by you can call?  I wouldn't take his threats of suicide lightly.  If you feel he may be serious you are right to take action. 

Is he seeking help?  Is he diagnosed BPD?  Is he in therapy?

So sorry you are going through this.

[cosmonaut]

I'm sorry that your ex is sending you these types of texts.  I know that must be very hard on you emotionally.  Break-ups are hard enough without these additional complications. 

As you probably know, abandonment is extremely triggering for a pwBPD.  Regardless of the circumstances surrounding your break-up, your ex almost certainly feels that he is being abandoned and he is pretty clearly triggered and dysregulated.  In such a state, he is not likely to be able to be reasoned with.  If you really are done with the relationship, probably the best way to handle things is to continue to refuse to respond.

Any threats of suicide need to be taken seriously, however.  Could your ex just be seeking attention?  Absolutely.  But people with BPD also have a high rate of actual suicides - far above the general population.  All threats of suicide should be treated seriously, and you are right to call the police.  That is absolutely the correct things to do.   

Hang in there, razemarie.  I really am sorry you have to deal with this.  Please keep posting and let us support you.

[intoashell]

Hi razemarie . I too am sorry you are having to deal with this. I understand how difficult this is as I also am in a similar situation (no child though).  My ex has started to it seems cover his msgs with ambiguity. It felt like they were not clear and my days often descended into questioning if he was or wasn't threatening to kill himself and and when.  Mine also had  good go at making me not tell anyone which truly was traumatizing.

For me, I decided my boundary has to be that I am not an trained professional in suicide risk nor given his abuse, behaviour and the relationship dynamic am I in any position to assess or deal with it. It needs to be a professional. My ex boyfriend does have a pysc doctor. does yours? . he also has a sister he is in contact with and I inform her too.

I felt so alone  and now feel much better. I am stuck in LC, which fluctuates between crisis msgs and FOG. Not fun and I am having to get through the fog regularly. One thing for sure though for me is that my exbf behaviour does nothing to make me think he is capable of a relationship at present or certainly not one I see/value.

The illness is a very horrible one for all involved.

[Dolly rocker]

My heart goes out to you, Razemarie!

I'm in a very similar situation myself. No child tho.

And I'm very lucky we live miles away from each other. Otherwise I know he would be hanging round my door day and night.

BPD are lost souls. I keep thinking if it's bad for us, imagine what it's like for them. To be a tortured soul forever. To have to fight your own demons everyday.

It can't be any easy. And that's probably why we nonBPDs suffer so much. Cos we feel sorry for them. We feel like we need to help them. When in reality we can't. It's very hard!

But we must always remember to put ourselves first. And that none of this is our fault.

I couldn't have done anything else to save him. I tried. I really tried.

He made it difficult for me or anyone else for that matter to help him. So I had to let go. I had to cut contact and try and live my life.

I was good, I was doing really well till last week when he msg me threatening to commit suicide.

Now I feel like I'm back to square one again.

If I was you I'd contact his family and explain that you're getting these msgs and ask them to help him out. That way you can keep ur NC and have peace of mind!

All the best to u

[razemarie]

My ex is undiagnosed BPD.  We were in counseling together the last two months of our relationship.  I have also done a year of counseling prior to that on my own. Since we broke up, he has stopped going and refuses to acknowledge the reasons why the relationship ended.  He thinks it's just a communication issue.  In answer to your question, I do still care about him, but I could never go back to being in a relationship with him.  It took seven years for me to get the courage to leave and end it.  The relationship was emotionally abusive and very toxic.  He drank very heavily until one year ago when he finally got sober.  I had hoped his issues were due to the alcohol but now I know it's more serious that than.  The alcohol intensified the behavior, but even after he quit, the problems continued.  Several times I tried to break it off but the threat of suicide always kept me coming back.  I have reached out to his family and best friend in the past.  His family told me that he needs me to survive and all I needed to do was come back to him to make things better.  They all agree there is a problem, but continue to enable the behavior.  They made me feel bad for tearing apart our family and have been cold to me ever since.  His best friend has tried to reach out and be there, but my ex has shut him and everyone else out.  When I discovered a website on BPD, it was like a light switch went on.  It described him perfectly.  The more I have read and learned about the disorder, the more I am sure this is what is going on.  He has a history of this behavior going back at least 15 years that I am aware of.

[NewMom]

I'm so sorry you're going through this!  I am in a similar situation, also with a small child. 

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=225397.msg12432613#msg12432613

My now diagnosed BPDh has been much worse since he's gotten the diagnosis.  I get similar texts:  Last week the following: "Just woke up Downunder*. Going home now feeling a tad awkward. Well... . I'm just a drunk f*** anyways."  The drinking is making everything worse. 

The problem is, we can't save them.  My PIL have been telling me the same thing:  I need to help him, without me he won't survive.  But that's the thing:  With I won't.  And both of us have children who need us!

Sending you   and a lot of strength!

[Mutt]

My ex is undiagnosed BPD.  We were in counseling together the last two months of our relationship.  I have also done a year of counseling prior to that on my own. Since we broke up, he has stopped going and refuses to acknowledge the reasons why the relationship ended.  He thinks it's just a communication issue.  In answer to your question, I do still care about him, but I could never go back to being in a relationship with him.  It took seven years for me to get the courage to leave and end it.  The relationship was emotionally abusive and very toxic.  He drank very heavily until one year ago when he finally got sober.  I had hoped his issues were due to the alcohol but now I know it's more serious that than.  The alcohol intensified the behavior, but even after he quit, the problems continued.  Several times I tried to break it off but the threat of suicide always kept me coming back.  I have reached out to his family and best friend in the past.  His family told me that he needs me to survive and all I needed to do was come back to him to make things better.  They all agree there is a problem, but continue to enable the behavior.  They made me feel bad for tearing apart our family and have been cold to me ever since.  His best friend has tried to reach out and be there, but my ex has shut him and everyone else out.  When I discovered a website on BPD, it was like a light switch went on.  It described him perfectly.  The more I have read and learned about the disorder, the more I am sure this is what is going on.  He has a history of this behavior going back at least 15 years that I am aware of.

Hi razemarie,

Our stories are similar. My wife is undiagnosed and we were together for 7 years. After separation she refuses to acknowledge that she ended the r/s and that I have a communication issue. I still care for her very much, because she is the mother of my children, and she is a human being. She thinks differently than I, she has problems with regulating her emotions. It was an emotionally abusive relationship and toxic. I worked through my anger and I read a lot about BPD, I didn't want to alienate my wife, but I wanted to understand. By understanding her behaviors and why she does what she does, I've changed the way that I communicate with her because I have children. A year ago, I couldn't do that, I was defensive and angry.

It is a communications issue, he won't understand that, because he doesn't realize that the problem is coming from him and he really believes that it's from the people that are around him causing this. It's projection, but to him, it's very real, it's pain from abandonment trauma that he is feeling. You can only change you, you cannot change him. You also need to give yourself closure through radical acceptance, he won't be able to do that. It's the way that he is, it's a disorder as sad as it is.

His family and friends are in denial that he is mentally ill, it causes such damage to a family. My wife's family is the exact same. You cannot save this person, he needs to do that on his own. I made a choice that I can't enable my wife anymore, but I can still care for this person, because I empathise with her. I care by not rescuing / enabling. I would suggest reading or watching AJ Mahari on YouTube. She is a recovered BPD, both parents were BPD, and after she had recovered, she had a r/s with a BPD. She's seen both sides and is very articulate what it is like to be the loved one and what it's like when you are the non borderline.

This video will explain projection Devaluation Projection and Lack of Trust in Borderline Personality from the POV (point of view) of AJ Mahari, a recovered BPD.

[razemarie]

Thank you all for your advice.  The texts messages continue.  They are really wearing me down.  It's hard to keep fighting the good fight when they make it so hard to move on.  This is why I have always ended up going back in the past.  He is trying to make me feel guilty and it's working.  Here is the last message.  I don't know what to say to him anymore.  I don't even know if these kinds of messages are normal. Most of the posts I read on here are about the BPD leaving the relationship or initiating NC. 

Today's email:  "I am in so much pain. I cant even work. I was going to head up north and just sit by a lake but where? I cannot believe this is happening. I love you so much, I am heart broken. you have been with out a doubt my best friend for 8yrs and your family has been a great family to me for 8yrs. now its just gone. I cant just walk away and pretend everything is fine. I have never felt so much pain for this long. I have been looking at pics of us today and its just been smiles with tears. I looked at all my Christmas village stuff and now I don't want it anymore. I had been collecting it for 3yrs for you and I. and couldn't wait to set it up at Christmas with you.  im so emty inside. the part that hurts the worst is my kids. I feel like a failure to my daughters. they wanted you and I to find a house so bad! they love you very much. everytime they come over they ask if we are going to see you. I still have not found a way  to tell them. and as for our son... . well that's the hardest. all I wanted was to be a real father for once. make it right with one child. and was happy knowing he would never see his dad drunk. I could not wait to see him every day. go outside and play catch, soccer, hockey, wrestle and work on stuff together teach him stuff. have him help me around the yard. go to menards . sitting on the lawn mower with me while we cut grass. do surprises for you when u got home. help me make breakfast in bed for you on the weekends. just the everyday stuff. and best of all him living with mommy and daddy. I have been sitting in the basement all day on this beautiful day just thinking about you and I and how happy we once were. and looking back at all the fun things we did together. and relizing  our son will end up having another man in his home some day doing the things I should be doing. I don't care how good you raise a child having split up parents is tuff on a kid. going from house to house, every other holidays. and so on. think of how many familys our son will have when you and I meet people! All of this can be a easy fix trust me. all we need to do is see each other during the week and weekends like a normal relationship. when you meet someone new I am sure you guys are not going to text and see each other for a few hours here and there right? well that was our problem. I promise that's all we need. please find it in your heart to just try. even just as friends. I made a few other changes as well. I wear my seat belt. I have not smoked in 2 days. I took care of my anger issue behind the wheel:) texting and not seeing each other killed us 100% please give me one month to prove to you. I cannot lose my soulmate and a once in a lifetime chance to raise my son everyday. I love you with all my heart and will pray."

Needless to say he is not being realistic about his actions, and the relationship.  He has the option to see his son any day of the week, yet won't.  These emails and texts are making me go crazy.

[Mutt]

I'm sorry razemarie he is putting you through this, you must be emotionally exhausted and you feel like you are walking on eggshells. You feel like you are running out of gas 

That text is not normal, it's borderline waif. He wants you to rescue him. Absolutely no one can rescue this man. He needs to get help for himself.

NC or minimal and controlled contact because of your child is the way to go. You need to define boundaries and distance yourself from his FOG, he is emitting a lot from that communique. Can you set a boundary and tell him that communications are only to be about your child and nothing else? You can't stop him from sending these types of messages, but you ignore them and not respond. That can also be a boundary. You need to detach as difficult as that is, I have 3 children with my ex and I cannot stress enough that you need to distance yourself and detach.

If you look at the sidebar to the right, you can see the five stages of detachment. Look at the top of that and it's true: Attachment Leads to Suffering, Detachment Leads to Freedom. How does that sound to you?

[razemarie]

Detaching sounds great to me.  I have been practicing LC for over two months now.  I have stated quite a few times that he needs to limit his communications with me to our son.  He just refuses to stop.  I have only responded to one other message (that was not about our son).  That was the 2nd time he threatened suicide and I said my next step would be to call the cops.  Otherwise I have not responded to anything, except to restate my boundaries a few times.  Nothing gets through to him.  I am not familiar with the term waif BPD.  I will have to read up on that.  But yes, he always expects me to rescue him.  With everything.

[razemarie]

In the past when I did try to help him, he would refuse to take any action so I constantly felt like I was wasting my time.  It was like he would refuse to improve his circumstances when it would have been so much easier for him if he had just tried.  I once tried to explain it to him, that it was like watching someone drown and trying to convince them that if they just stood up, they could save themselves.  Only to have that person swim out deeper and then cry for help.

[Mutt]

It's a mental illness that he is probably not even aware of, some BPD are more aware than others. It sounds like you are doing the right things with LC and you are going to call the cops if he threatens suicide. You've identified both. Nothing gets through to him because he is mentally ill. This is a serious disorder. You can try telling yourself that a few times per day, it took me a long time to absorb this, my ex is mentally ill. I can't get my ex to understand my point of view or reason with her like a non disordered person. On the chances that I do talk to her, I validate what she feels because she is often dysregulated, projects and disassociates.

I detached, but I also set a goal to get to indifference. It took a while to get there, but I'm there.

BPD BEHAVIORS: Waif, Hermit, Queen, and Witch

The Waif  "learned that submissive behavior was the most adaptive response to an oppressive environment." She also "sees herself as an incompetent failure, and is overly dependent on the approval of others."

The Hermit is "a perfectionist, a worrier, and . . . an insomniac. . . Hermit mothers suffer from persistent fantasies of harm coming to themselves or others, and tend to attribute hostile intentions to others."

Queen mothers "compete with their children for time, attention, love, and money." And "The dramatic and sometimes hysterical behavior of the Queen mother can terrify her children."

And finally, Witch mothers can be "bitter, demanding, sarcastic, and cruel," and "Witch mothers know what to say to hurt or scare their children, and use humiliation and degradation to punish them."

[razemarie]

I'm getting stronger with all of this each day.  But it's not easy as I'm sure you know.  I really loved him and it has been hard to admit that there is something seriously wrong with him that I can't help fix.  I do not believe he is aware that the problem lies with him.  I just don't know what else I can do to make this behavior stop.  I just want to be on my own and take time to heal from the past 8 years of complete chaos.  I can't continue with these kinds of messages each day, but we have a child together that he sees every other weekend and checks in on daily.  So going NC is really not an option.  I thought that almost 70 days of me not responding to anything besides our son would send some sort of message.  If it is, he isn't getting it.  I have tried to get him to send emails instead of texts and am keeping them in a folder.  Just in case.  He has tried to commit suicide once before that I am aware of.  So that has always been a fear.  That he will kill himself because I left.  That is a lot of weight to carry around.

[razemarie]

I think you hit the nail on the head.  Waif.  That sums him up perfectly.  He didn't quite fit the traditional description of BPD because he rarely rages on the outside.  But he is always depressed and something is ALWAYS wrong.  This man has so many issues that only get worse with his refusal to tackle them and make progress.  It's been maddening to watch all these years. 

[Mutt]

I think you hit the nail on the head.  Waif.  That sums him up perfectly.  He didn't quite fit the traditional description of BPD because he rarely rages on the outside.  But he is always depressed and something is ALWAYS wrong.  This man has so many issues that only get worse with his refusal to tackle them and make progress.  It's been maddening to watch all these years.  

I read the first few lines of the text you posted and waif, I didn't need to read the rest. Can you see that he is pleading to be rescued? It's maddening, heartbreaking when we cannot help a loved one, but I choose to stop enabling my ex by not rescuing her. I would hope that some day, she will box herself in, if she loses enablers in her life and by then she will get professional help. Tough love.

I care for my wife from a distance, I don't love her anymore, but I care because she was my wife and she is a person with feelings. She is simply disordered and I cannot rescue / help.

[razemarie]

I think that's the key... . caring from a distance.  It's hard to watch.

[razemarie]

So in short, I should not respond to this message, correct?  I should continue to only respond to messages about our son unless he threatens suicide again?

[Mutt]

So in short, I should not respond to this message, correct?  I should continue to only respond to messages about our son unless he threatens suicide again?

Absolutely correct razemarie. Do not respond. Ignore, ignore, ignore. Create yourself a goal to get to indifference, it takes time. I have a thick skin now because of ex and what I have learned here, but it took me almost a year to get there.

Respond only about your son, tell him what your boundary is, if he threatens to kill himself, call the cops ASAP, let the professionals deal with it, they are trained in that, do not take that on your own.

[razemarie]

Will do.  Thank you so much for all of your advice.  Sometimes I feel like I'm going crazy with all of this.  This is the only place where I feel anyone understands. 

[Mutt]

Will do.  Thank you so much for all of your advice.  Sometimes I feel like I'm going crazy with all of this.  This is the only place where I feel anyone understands. 

razemarie you are welcome. You're feeling crazy from this because of the FOG in his messages Workshop - US: What it means to be in the “FOG”

Fear Obligation Guilt.

It's the disorder. Remove yourself from the FOG by ignoring his messages   Keep posting! You'll get a lot of advice from people that have walked a mile in your shoes, tailor your situation to your needs. Detach. Don't think twice about calling the cops.

- Mutt 

[razemarie]

I had hoped I wouldn't need to post again, but here I am.  My ex still continues to text/email every day.  The amount of messages is slowly decreasing, but they are just as intense as they were when I first ended the relationship.  Tonight he has sent me five messages.  Basically saying that he is going to empty his savings to buy his 15 year old daughter a car tomorrow (this is pretty consistent with his past behavior of being very financially impulsive), that his Mom is going in for surgery and that he can't believe how deeply I would hurt him and abandon him like this.  He ended by saying that he is tired of feeling this way, doesn't deserve it and hopes I am ready for what he is going to do.  Of course with his previous suicide threats, my mind immediately goes to that.  My question is, is this just more FOG?  Should I continue to ignore this?  I

[Mutt]

Continue ignoring the fog. It sounds like he'll have an extinction burst. Keep up those boundaries with steel resolve with his pleas. Call the cops if he is doing SI (suicidal idealization)

[razemarie]

Thank you Mutt.  I will keep doing as I have been.

[Mutt]

Thank you Mutt.  I will keep doing as I have been.

Your welcome. Keep posting. I guarantee it's going to die down. It takes time.