Neutral facial expressions and BPD triggers

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

In my experience, pwBPD have a strong tendency to be in "I-wish-someone-would" mode.  In other words, they are constantly on guard for any sort of attack or offense on their life, liberty and property, not to mention your character.  I know that my career, my hobbies, my anything-that-didn't-have-to-do-with-my exBPDw was at minimum open to attack.  Their mindset is that they believe that you'd do the same thing given the chance, so it's OK to do it to you.  Also, a number of studies have shown that people with BPD perceive negative emotions like anger and disgust from neutral facial expressions.

The only way to prevent something like that happening is to always be happy, never be upset, never be tired and never be disappointed.  See how realistic that sounds?

[iluminati]

In my experience, pwBPD have a strong tendency to be in "I-wish-someone-would" mode.  In other words, they are constantly on guard for any sort of attack or offense on their life, liberty and property, not to mention your character.  I know that my career, my hobbies, my anything-that-didn't-have-to-do-with-my exBPDw was at minimum open to attack.  Their mindset is that they believe that you'd do the same thing given the chance, so it's OK to do it to you.  Also, a number of studies have shown that people with BPD perceive negative emotions like anger and disgust from neutral facial expressions.

The only way to prevent something like that happening is to always be happy, never be upset, never be tired and never be disappointed.  See how realistic that sounds?

[strong9]

Also, a number of studies have shown that people with BPD perceive negative emotions like anger and disgust from neutral facial expressions.

Do you know how I can get access to more info on that? My uBPDw blamed the kids starting to detach from her back and forth behavior on me, stating they perceived my hostility to her when we were all together even though I went out of my way for her. I spoke to my kids to ask them if they perceived hostility and reassure them and they were perplexed by my concerns. She also told our MC that my being quiet was intimidating to her and perceived as hostile.  My MC thinks my wife is uBPD so I would del of that is part of it.

[Mutt]

Also, a number of studies have shown that people with BPD perceive negative emotions like anger and disgust from neutral facial expressions.

Do you know how I can get access to more info on that? My uBPDw blamed the kids starting to detach from her back and forth behavior on me, stating they perceived my hostility to her when we were all together even though I went out of my way for her. I spoke to my kids to ask them if they perceived hostility and reassure them and they were perplexed by my concerns. She also told our MC that my being quiet was intimidating to her and perceived as hostile.  My MC thinks my wife is uBPD so I would del of that is part of it.

During my exe's dissassociative and final devaluation phase she would trigger into a rage by my facial expression or gesture such as sighing. I was depressed, discouraged, emasculated and frustrated with all of her acting out and likely mirrored that from the emotional rollercoaster. There were many downs and very few ups. I was avoidant with her conflict and displayed discouragement and frustration through facial expressions, not verbal communication. Albeit tone was another trigger and not the message contained within the communication as well. I'm not familiar of behavior or studies. It's not to say that there isn't but I share a similar experience. It was confusing as I felt defeated because i felt anything that I did would set her off, irregardless if my intentions where noble or benign. I feel now that I was being used as a scapegoat for her negative attributions and behaviors. Her feelings about her affair and the replacement where likely projected on me. Facial expressions where the most perplexing and really threw me off balance. It conjured a lot of resentful feelings from my corner.

[iluminati]

Also, a number of studies have shown that people with BPD perceive negative emotions like anger and disgust from neutral facial expressions.

Do you know how I can get access to more info on that? My uBPDw blamed the kids starting to detach from her back and forth behavior on me, stating they perceived my hostility to her when we were all together even though I went out of my way for her. I spoke to my kids to ask them if they perceived hostility and reassure them and they were perplexed by my concerns. She also told our MC that my being quiet was intimidating to her and perceived as hostile.  My MC thinks my wife is uBPD so I would del of that is part of it.

I went into PubMed, typed in "borderline personality disorder facial", and got 109 different studies talking about it.  Here's the abstract from the first study I got:

It has been argued that a heightened emotional sensitivity interferes with the cognitive processing of facial emotion recognition and may explain the intensified emotional reactions to external emotional stimuli of adults with personality pathology, such as borderline personality disorder (BPD). This study examines if and how deviations in facial emotion recognition also occur in adolescents with personality pathology. Forty-two adolescents with personality pathology, 111 healthy adolescents and 28 psychiatric adolescents without personality pathology completed the Emotion Recognition Task, measuring their accuracy and sensitivity in recognizing positive and negative emotion expressions presented in several, morphed, expression intensities. Adolescents with personality pathology showed an enhanced recognition accuracy of facial emotion expressions compared to healthy adolescents and clients with various Axis-I psychiatric diagnoses. They were also more sensitive to less intensive expressions of emotions than clients with various Axis-I psychiatric diagnoses, but not more than healthy adolescents. As has been shown in research on adults with BPD, adolescents with personality pathology show enhanced facial emotion recognition.

I could spent the rest of the day posting abstracts like this.  If you want a more qualitative feel for what it looks like in practice, check out this link.

[LostGhost]

Sounds familiar. My expwBPDgf couldn't stand it if any negative thought or emotion was expressed. Constant requirement for me to be smiling, laughing and hyper. If my face was neutral or I was quiet, something was "wrong". When I ended up conveying a heightened mood eventually, she'd remark "Oh there you are... . where did you go, outer space? I missed you!"

Unfortunately it's damn near impossible to maintain a state of heightened pleasure 24/7. Exhausting in fact. So I was never good enough in her eyes... . but I did try. Being in her company actually brought out that hyper side of me and I was able to sustain it for lengthy periods of time, just not 24/7. And even then a minor perceived slight would paint me black instantly for days at a time without ever knowing what I did to trigger her.

[Mutt]

Sounds familiar. My expwBPDgf couldn't stand it if any negative thought or emotion was expressed. Constant requirement for me to be smiling, laughing and hyper. If my face was neutral or I was quiet, something was "wrong". When I ended up conveying a heightened mood eventually, she'd remark "Oh there you are... . where did you go, outer space? I missed you!"

Unfortunately it's damn near impossible to maintain a state of heightened pleasure 24/7. Exhausting in fact. So I was never good enough in her eyes... . but I did try. Being in her company actually brought out that hyper side of me and I was able to sustain it for lengthy periods of time, just not 24/7. And even then a minor perceived slight would paint me black instantly for days at a time without ever knowing what I did to trigger her.

It's hurtful when someone simply cannot be themselves and react normally in a non disordered way. We can feel like we're not allowed to simply be... . ourselves and react to a reaction normally and we're synchronized around a loved ones emotions. It feels like you're"walking on eggshells" and split black for days for unknown reasons. I can say that if I retreated it was conveyed as abandoning her. I was split black and she was also projecting her silent treatment during her disassociative phase / fear of engulfment but in retrospect she was detaching from me. I was told I was emotionally abusive because of silent treatments when in fact it came from her.

I noticed facial expressions mostly in her devaluation phase illuminati and I may of missed it previous to this phase. I can say that I felt like I was losing my identity during this period because I couldn't be me and I was losing the joy of life always adjusting to my ex and her maladaptive coping skills. I was depressed. Was this throughout the course of your r/s or more insidious like my ex? I will never forget this I think, my facial expressions triggered rage episodes.

[LostGhost]

It's hurtful when someone simply cannot be themselves and react normally in a no disordered way. We can feel like we're not allowed to simply be... . ourselves and react to a reaction normally and we're synchronized around a loved ones emotions. It feels like you're"walking on eggshells" and split black for days for unknown reasons. I can say that if I retreated it was conveyed as abandoning her. I was split black and she was also projecting her silent treatment during her disassociative phase and told I was emotionally abusive because of silent treatments when in fact it came from her.

I noticed facial expression,s mostly in her devaluation phase illuminati and I may of missed it previous to this phase. Was this throughout the course of your r/s?

Walking on eggshells was exactly what it was like. When I saw an argument coming on or about to escalate, any attempt at disengaging by going for a walk or leaving the house for an hour was perceived as abandoning her. She thought I was breaking up with her every time. I never knew what being painted black was until I found this site. She did it many times towards the end and I never fully discovered the triggers. I still don't have any answers for what I did wrong, only assumptions. I was this heroic man who could do no wrong for several months and then I suddenly became garbage that she couldn't get rid of fast enough.

[iluminati]

I noticed facial expression,s mostly in her devaluation phase illuminati and I may of missed it previous to this phase. Was this throughout the course of your r/s?

The short answer is I stopped giving a f***.  There were so many instances where any little thing was read for something threatening that I just detached.  Earlier on, it caused issues, but it happened so often that I stopped caring.  It was just that she was digging for something, anything, to be wrong if I weren't up and hype 24/7.  Once I stopped her from snooping in my emails and instant messages, she started reading my face for anything other than pure rapture and judged me on it.  

For example, one time I got a job, and while I was happy for a job, the conditions weren't what I'd hoped for.  My ex got mad at me for not being happy for a job and wondered why I took it.  The idea of complicated emotions were too much for her.  It was pure joy and energy or nothing.  And heaven forbid I was tired.  I mind as well have beat her and gotten my money's worth.  She took my exhaustion as a pure, unadulterated threat.

[Mutt]

She took my exhaustion as a pure, unadulterated threat.

This is exactly how I felt iluminati. I stopped caring and I was detaching. I felt exaustion. A shell of the man I was. A wasteland.

I am her trigger.

[strong9]

Wow. This is like a lightbulb moment. All of this sounds like my experience.  Mine would constantly ask if something was wrong or if I was mad at her if I was quiet. We jokingly called it my "quiet mood" to try to defuse the situation.

The job thing is eerie illuminati. If I had a bad day at work, she couldn't understand why I was upset and why I couldn't turn it in to a positive.   Later she admitted to me that she came from a family where negative emotions were swept under the rug and dismissed. So the idea of having complex, negative emotions that are part of everyday life are an anathema to her. It was my job to such those in and be happy for her all the time. When I had complex emotions I was her trigger. The last year when we were together and both depressed about my job relocation threw her in to a tailspin.  I suddenly became human and vulnerable and that just wasn't right for her.

[LostGhost]

Sounds exactly like the same blueprint for what I was dealing with. Complex emotions, negative thoughts or emotions, anything that remotely resembled them... . when I expressed  these and looked at her, the vacant expression on her face told me it just boggled her mind. She couldn't comprehend why I wasn't hyper ecstatic 24/7. Exactly what you said strong9 about triggers and displaying vulnerability. As soon as I revealed to her that I am only human and prone to experiencing more than just euphoria or happiness in the emotional spectrum... . I was done for. Slowly and irrevocably painted black until I was forced to watch myself completely free fall before shattering into a million pieces on the rock bottom floor I now find myself in.

We work together and although I am far enough away from her I don't need to see her, I hear her laughing and giggling away, perfectly acting out the theatrics of a happy woman with a wonderful life. Going on never allowing negativity to get to her. Impervious to it. Like you said, sweeping it under the rug. She said the same thing. She always told me she doesn't deal with negative emotions or feelings, she just ignores it and buries it and never addresses it. I didn't really comprehend what that meant but now I get to witness it fully while I continue to suffer. What a twisted disorder.

[strong9]

Sounds exactly like the same blueprint for what I was dealing with. Complex emotions, negative thoughts or emotions, anything that remotely resembled them... . when I expressed  these and looked at her, the vacant expression on her face told me it just boggled her mind. She couldn't comprehend why I wasn't hyper ecstatic 24/7. Exactly what you said strong9 about triggers and displaying vulnerability. As soon as I revealed to her that I am only human and prone to experiencing more than just euphoria or happiness in the emotional spectrum... . I was done for. Slowly and irrevocably painted black until I was forced to watch myself completely free fall before shattering into a million pieces on the rock bottom floor I now find myself in.

We work together and although I am far enough away from her I don't need to see her, I hear her laughing and giggling away, perfectly acting out the theatrics of a happy woman with a wonderful life. Going on never allowing negativity to get to her. Impervious to it. Like you said, sweeping it under the rug. She said the same thing. She always told me she doesn't deal with negative emotions or feelings, she just ignores it and buries it and never addresses it. I didn't really comprehend what that meant but now I get to witness it fully while I continue to suffer. What a twisted disorder.

I feel for you LostGhost. Mine had the decency (cam you semse my sarcasm?) to ditch our kids and me for months on another continent. I got my space. You are a strong man to keep working in the same place. You may not have a choice but you should be proud of that nonetheless.

[Strangerinthemirror]

Sounds so familiar!

[OutOfEgypt]

In other words, they are constantly on guard for any sort of attack or offense on their life, liberty and property, not to mention your character.

That may be true, but I think it always comes out more like... . they always want to put YOU on guard, always throw YOU off, always put YOU on the defensive.  Their m/o is to make sure everybody around them feels at least slightly less okay about themselves than they do, and the primary way they do this (at least with my ex) is by always making sure you are thrown off by something.

That's why I don't even think being the most happy dude in the world would make a difference.  She would find something to put her finger on.  She *needs* you to feel thrown off.  After all, if you feel thrown off, she doesn't have to look at (or feel badly about) feeling like she's off.

[Alex86]

We work together and although I am far enough away from her I don't need to see her, I hear her laughing and giggling away, perfectly acting out the theatrics of a happy woman with a wonderful life. Going on never allowing negativity to get to her. Impervious to it. Like you said, sweeping it under the rug. She said the same thing. She always told me she doesn't deal with negative emotions or feelings, she just ignores it and buries it and never addresses it.

I also tried not to show any reaction so as not to have bad consequences. In the end, I felt numb.

Through their life they try to avoid negative feelings because these remind them how unworthy and unloving they are. They can't stand the shame of these feelings, since they themselves are the cause of their existense. They want a partner who would reflect to them the "happy life". Any other mood will be a trigger since they "see" themselves in you.

As a result when we have lost ourselves and can't be happy, so to reflect this emotion to them, then the devaluation phase begins. I would partially understand this phase if we somehow disappointed them (which again it isn't logical and true in love relationships). But it seems they can't also forget situations, forgive and move on. They are stuck in these moments. This was another dealbreaker for me. I couldn't be with someone who can't forgive or has learnt not to forgive.

[LostGhost]

Wow. You hit the nail on the head there Alex86. When we had our final argument before she broke up with me, I confronted her and asked her what exactly I'd done wrong to be treated with the hot/cold and distance and she brought up a minor argument we had way back in January. I said "That was over 5 months ago!" And she replied with this dead look in her eyes and half a smile, "I never forgive, I never forget." What was this major grievance about? Was it because I hit her? Because I cheated on her? Because I'm a monster? Nope. The argument was about one of her friends (male) walking over me like a doormat for two months and me just taking it because he was her friend. I finally had enough and put him in his place verbally. Apparently because I demonstrated I was capable of other emotions other than euphoric bliss, I was devalued from that moment forward.

Only she conveniently forgot and forgave all of the horribly monstrous things she told me her ex did to her when she ended up with him about a week? day? hour? after she broke up with me. Aggravating to the extreme!

[Forestaken]

Neutral Expression: Check!

Mental thoughts: Always prepared on spouting the efforts and expenses of a home repair project.

Her: "Your awfully quiet and distance, what or who are you thinking about"?

Me: the bathroom vainty has been wet off and on. I worried that the leak is in the wall not in the sink trap.  A plumber would cost at least $250, to replace the vaniety would cost at least $250 on top of that plus the plumbing if I did it would take all weekend, and the bathroom... . "

Her: Zones out 

[OutOfEgypt]

Pffft... . There you go again... . thinking about something or someone other than her.  Shame on you!  Don't you know that you are supposed to be constantly fixated on her?  Bad, bad

[Karmachameleon]

That's interesting.  That was one behavior I didn't really attribute to BPD until reading this thread, but my ex would constantly ask me what was wrong 1000 times a day and would randomly say, "I'm sorry." for no particular reason 1000 times a day.  Implying that I was probably mad about something and he was just covering his bases.  But God forbid he ever apologize for anything he did that really needed to be apologized for.  But yeah, now that you mention it, he always had dibs on feeling depressed and/or upset and both of us couldn't be at the same time.  Weird. 

[iluminati]

We work together and although I am far enough away from her I don't need to see her, I hear her laughing and giggling away, perfectly acting out the theatrics of a happy woman with a wonderful life. Going on never allowing negativity to get to her. Impervious to it. Like you said, sweeping it under the rug. She said the same thing. She always told me she doesn't deal with negative emotions or feelings, she just ignores it and buries it and never addresses it.

I also tried not to show any reaction so as not to have bad consequences. In the end, I felt numb.

FWIW, I just kept being myself.  The most concession I gave was to make a point to mention any little thing positive she did.  Once I saw it did nothing, I stopped.  I kept my distance and did my own thing until she was willing to engage.  Of course, the second I expressed myself in general, the issues began.  Weirdly enough, she was only comfortable when I was full out pissed.  It seemed that I had finally revealed the "anger" she sensed all along and felt validated by that.  Once I figured that out, I made a point not to be full out pissed in front of her, and that really seemed to distress her.

[OutOfEgypt]

Once I figured that out, I made a point not to be full out pissed in front of her, and that really seemed to distress her.

Yeah, basically their behaviors are intended to provoke a reaction from us.  Stop reacting in the way they intend, and they lose their power (or maybe will try harder!).  She intends for you to react in anger... . so keep calm or laugh.  That really set my ex off once.  She intends for you to give into her bratty-complaints and demands... . so don't, and keep it light instead of arguing about things with her.  That made my ex have a fit like a little kid and run to her room and slam the door -all because nobody else wanted to watch the tv show she wanted to watch, but I didn't give in like I normally would.  She intends for you to compete with her and be jealous or envious... . so don't; be happy for her instead (or at least fake it very well).  Talk about losing control!

[strong9]

That's interesting.  That was one behavior I didn't really attribute to BPD until reading this thread, but my ex would constantly ask me what was wrong 1000 times a day and would randomly say, "I'm sorry." for no particular reason 1000 times a day.  Implying that I was probably mad about something and he was just covering his bases.  But God forbid he ever apologize for anything he did that really needed to be apologized for.  But yeah, now that you mention it, he always had dibs on feeling depressed and/or upset and both of us couldn't be at the same time.  Weird. 

Mine was the same. I wonder if that was the underlying guilt/shame manifesting on their terms but when you really called them out they locked down. During our one and only recycle I was angry once and her first reaction was to ask if I was mad at her even though I hadn't seen or talked to her in 24 hours.

[brokenbutalive]

my ex would constantly ask me what was wrong 1000 times a day and would randomly say, "I'm sorry." for no particular reason 1000 times a day

In my case it was me that was asking her what was wrong 1000 times a day and me saying sorry 1000 times a day. I'd usually committed some heinous crime. Like choosing a sandwich for lunch instead of pasta (yes, she actually raged at me for that, I'm not joking).

[Ihope2]

My exBPDh used to read rejection in any and every facial expression, tone of voice and body posture of mine.  The trouble is, the more one becomes aware of the fact that the other person is interpreting things a certain way, the more tense one does become in one's dealings with them.  This then becomes an endless loop of them interpreting it in more and more extreme ways, and one's own level of tension increasing more and more... .

I often felt that I was a block of granite, having to hold myself so stiff, having to keep check of my facial expression, tone of voice, gestures, gaze.  Having to think and double-think about what to say and how to say it.  And still, I "lost" most times!  He would comment on things like ":)on't roll your eyes at me. Don't turn your gaze away from me. Look at me when I am speaking to you!  Don't fold your arms, don't turn away from me.  I can see that you think I am being childish.  Don't shout at me! Don't raise your voice to me.  Don't sigh like that. " Listening to all of this, you would think that I was the rudest person on the planet, shouting at him, rolling my eyes, sighing constantly! In reality, I was standing still, like a hare trapped in the headlamps of a car!  Not knowing when to blink or breathe!   I am not a person to raise my voice to others or make sarcastic facial expressions or roll my eyes.  I usually have quite a serious expression on my face, I guess some people would mistake my intensity for crossness... . But when I listen to someone, I give them my full attention and I look at them and pay attention.  But clearly, it did not come across that way to my exBPDh when he was being triggered and disassociating and become paranoid.

Another thing he accused me of often was that I was having negative thoughts about him and feeling negative emotions about him!  It was almost as though he assumed to be able to read my thoughts and run them by me and discuss what he assumed to know I was thinking at any given time!

[OutOfEgypt]

Another thing he accused me of often was that I was having negative thoughts about him and feeling negative emotions about him!

My ex wouldn't say that, but that is what happened.  My every reaction was read, assessed, and judged.  If I looked unhappy, she always assumed it was about her (often times it was because she tortured me), and then I was accused of ruining her happiness.

Sometimes, she would get upset because, as we sat or laid close to each other, I would "breathe on her".  The exhale from my nostrils apparently bothered her.  It made her cold or irritated her in some way.  For years I would try to adjust myself and accomodate.  Finally, I just said, "Look, I breathe, ok?  Get over it!"