Was BPD in your ex's aura?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Thank you Ziggidy. I realise now the relationship was a classic Codependent - Borderline Personality Disorder one!  Text book case!

I rescued from the get-go. From when I saw him running the marathon, and I approached him when we were done running the race, and I donated some cash to him.  I remember feeling quite motherly towards him, as I also had the impression that he was much younger than his 36 years.  I thought he was about 28 or so.  So, it activated that rescuer, codependent aspect in me, that I have always had as part of my make-up, I reckon.

The idea that one person can make it "all better" for another person.  It seems so silly to think about it now. But that is truly what my core belief has been, and now that I have been brought to examine it openly, I realise how faulty it has been.

[Ihope2]

Thank you Ziggidy. I realise now the relationship was a classic Codependent - Borderline Personality Disorder one!  Text book case!

I rescued from the get-go. From when I saw him running the marathon, and I approached him when we were done running the race, and I donated some cash to him.  I remember feeling quite motherly towards him, as I also had the impression that he was much younger than his 36 years.  I thought he was about 28 or so.  So, it activated that rescuer, codependent aspect in me, that I have always had as part of my make-up, I reckon.

The idea that one person can make it "all better" for another person.  It seems so silly to think about it now. But that is truly what my core belief has been, and now that I have been brought to examine it openly, I realise how faulty it has been.

[Infared]

I definitely had the rescue thing going on ,too... especially for the 1st couple of years of the relationship... . in retrospect I feel like such a dumbbell.she just sucked it dry, but when I needed her, I just got anger, abuse, and self-centeredness.

[Ziggiddy]

I definitely had the rescue thing going on ,too... especially for the 1st couple of years of the relationship... . in retrospect I feel like such a dumbbell.she just sucked it dry, but when I needed her, I just got anger, abuse, and self-centeredness.

Hi Infared. I felt sad when I read this. i am sorry you were badly treated. I am even sorrier that you were feeling down on yourself about it. It is never EVER a bad thing to try and help someone and or rescue them. It is a human kindness. I think it was nice you were impelled by a rescue reflex. there are a lot worse things )

[Ventus2ct]

When I met mine, she was stunning, not the prettiest girl I ever have been out with but exactly my type of girl, seemed slightly shy, was drunk!

We went for supper some time after and I knew then that she was in my view pretty much perfect, funny, charming, sexual, polite, kind and seemed caring. The one thing I did note massively for the first few dates was that towards the end of the evening, she'd get all jumpy, like a cat on a hot tin roof, eyes all over the place, constant movement, very nervous. I questioned this (took the piss out of her about it!) and as far as I could make out it was all about the sexual side of life, it was almost as if she couldn't control herself.

Dropping her off in the car afterwards, she would almost leap out of the car, almost to get away asap! Strange how you remember the little things.

I still would maintain that she lit my fire in a way that none else has ever done when we met for the first time, I cannot put my finger on it exactly, but she was perfect.

Then after the abortion she devalued (I guess she had every right to) and then the hell began for 3 months.

I feel I could forgive her but she will never me, due in part to my stance on the abortion, the relationship was not "normal" after she moved in, so many red flags, that is what resulted in our decision not to go ahead with the pregnancy at the time.

Looking back now, I wish she had the balls to carry it through, I would have come on board soon enough, just freaked out. But then I ask myself how would it all have been with a young baby in tow as well.

I feel a lot more at peace since i have found this site, amazing how many feelings/thoughts/explanations and guidance there is and i can relate to so many stories, feelings, thoughts.

I still have a lot to learn about myself but healing first is the most important thing for me.

Thanks all.

[lemon flower]

I can't accept that he was a master manipulator.

- to me it feels that manipulation is one of the techniques they sometimes use when they deliberatedly want to get something done from someone, and when they do that they are conscient of it

- but very often their manipulative actions are not deliberatedly "planned", especially when they are in a disregulated stage, and I believe that in those moments it is not done on purpose, in those moments it becomes one of their unconscious survival strategies... .

- further more I suppose that the manipulation, being on purpose or not, finally became some kind of bad habit after the years  :'(

I'm starting to know my BP-friend that good that I can usually tell when it's planned manipulation and when he seems not to be aware of it... .

sometimes he even admits that he is manipulating, he told me he was a doing it allready as a child.

[Veronykah]

he just stopped and put his hands on my face and said " Narellan listen to me. It's ok, it's always been ok" I almost cried. He went on to say I was forever entwined in his soul.

Oh stories like this make me feel like I should take everything you've said to me since I've been here all the more serious. Mine is more like yours, in these respects. I genuinely believe he feels everything. When I put my dog to sleep, he was right there holding my hand and crying along with me. That was no manipulation, it was real. I've thought and told him he's tortured inside since WAY before I've ever known he had BPD. He is the most emotional/sensitive person I've ever known.

When I met him I was very closed off but working on it in therapy. I didn't reveal any emotions to anyone, ever. Crying in front of people, hugging nothing. So when I met him he forced me to open up since he was on the opposite end of the spectrum and demanded it from me as validation of my feelings for him. I've never been so open with ANYONE in my life. I thought he was so different from anyone I've ever known in my life in that respect. I could open up to him and didn't feel like he was going to use it against me later, and he never did. That is the part, I think that makes it all so hard for me.

He is in my heart and to try to live my life without someone who (it seemed) cared so much about me, when I never got that from my own PARENTS even is the worst.

[Unique135]

When I met mine for the first time, I went home and he called to talk to me that evening.  I remember that the first thing I told him when he asked what I thought about him was that, I thought he looked like a, "player".  He denied it and told me that he is a very nice guy, etc.  We used to go out together in public and guys used to always look at me, and he would get mad and give the guys dirty looks.  After about 2 dates, he asked me if he thought we, "looked good together", and I thought that was sort of odd.  After a while he avoided going to public places with me.  There were many other signs but I ignored them because he was my frist relationship and I was naive... .

[Turkish]

he just stopped and put his hands on my face and said " Narellan listen to me. It's ok, it's always been ok" I almost cried. He went on to say I was forever entwined in his soul.

Oh stories like this make me feel like I should take everything you've said to me since I've been here all the more serious. Mine is more like yours, in these respects. I genuinely believe he feels everything. When I put my dog to sleep, he was right there holding my hand and crying along with me. That was no manipulation, it was real. I've thought and told him he's tortured inside since WAY before I've ever known he had BPD. He is the most emotional/sensitive person I've ever known.

This is it. I knew mine was more sensitive than the average woman, but it took me many months living with her to think, "it's like she has some type of PD." I felt guilty for thinking that.

It's good to remember that pwBPD feel the same emotions we do, they just feel them much more intensely, and have little control over them. The feelings at the moment are real. Later, another feeling takes it's place. It often feels like manipulation to us in the long term, but to them it is about survival. They often can't comprehend that others don't operate that way (the shallow sense of empathy since their emotions are focused inward).

[Narellan]

Turkish I get so confused because some people say BPDs feel things so much stronger than we do and others say they just mirror us and are incapable of loving. If my ex loved me even half as much as I loved him how could he try and replace me with my best friend? Wouldn't he have some concept of the agony that would cause me?

Some day they suffer and are ashamed at the pain they've caused and others say they can't feel remorse and just move on.

I know he loved me but not as much as I loved him apparently, because I could never have disappeared without a word.

[BorisAcusio]

Turkish I get so confused because some people say BPDs feel things so much stronger than we do and others say they just mirror us and are incapable of loving. If my ex loved me even half as much as I loved him how could he try and replace me with my best friend? Wouldn't he have some concept of the agony that would cause me?

Some day they suffer and are ashamed at the pain they've caused and others say they can't feel remorse and just move on.

I know he loved me but not as much as I loved him apparently, because I could never have disappeared without a word.

If you only rely on forum posts, then you will always doubt the authenticity and eventually it will serve as an excuse to keep clinging to the fantasy image, which you obviously do. Their deficiency in affect regulation will make primitive emotions more intense, but intensity is not the same as depth. For a pwBPD, love equals to need. It is well documented, just grab a book on the topic.

[Ziggiddy]

Narellan I think it's misleading to cast all the BPD'd people in the same light - we know it's a spectrum disorder right? Some things are more so for one person, less so for another. Also the reception of those feelings - our own personal emotion environment is going to colour how we perceive their behaviour, no? Part of us buys fully into the love for want of better description of the sensation. And you know what? I believe it's as real as we thought - but only at that moment.  Til the next wave of stimulus sends the wind in another direction or worse, knocks the  whole boat over. This is something I struggle with. The emotion is real but only the work of the moment. It doesn't hold. And it is not rationally threaded to the next emotion of the next moment. THEY can't explain it how can we?

Wouldn't he have some concept of the agony that would cause me?

Did your ex love you? Many of the things you have said shows that he did - but was it material? Was it solid? Was it what YOU PERCEIVE LOVE TO BE? If he could leave you in that awful deceitful way then the only conclusion is that no, he could not possibly grasp the agony that would inflict. But then again if he did feel that, would it hold? Would it translate to remorse or guilt? Possibly but again, would it hold? Or would it be channeled into transference, projection, callous disregard?

Sometimes there's mirroring. Sometimes there's loving sometimes there's manipulation. It's whatever tool gets me through this moment of turmoil till I can recover my self esteem, consolidate my position, align my reinforcements.

I imagine that replacing you with your best 'friend' was more about getting someone on side rather than inflicting pain on you. But not necessarily exclusive of it. Some minimise the pain they inflict "She had it coming. it was her own fault' Others self inflict "How could I do that? i'm a terrible person. I'll make it up to myself by 'loving' her best 'friend' so much that it'll PROVE I'm not cruel." More likely is "SHE'S cruel. SHE'S inflicted pain on ME. SHE's probably been cheating on ME. I'm just protecting (projecting) myself."

That's the crazy maker. All tools lead to Rome.

[BorisAcusio]

Narellan I think it's misleading to cast all the BPD'd people in the same light - we know it's a spectrum disorder right? Some things are more so for one person, less so for another.

I do not agree. While we have a broad spectrum, the underlying core symptoms remain the same. They may have the skills to more or less function in a work environment, due to their socieconomic background, intelligence and more pronounced affect regulation. They may take on different roles so one can categorize them as Queen, Witch, Waif, Hermit. It doesn't really make any difference in how they bond, what defense mechanism they use in the times of stress, where they stuck in emotional development.

[Turkish]

Turkish I get so confused because some people say BPDs feel things so much stronger than we do and others say they just mirror us and are incapable of loving. If my ex loved me even half as much as I loved him how could he try and replace me with my best friend? Wouldn't he have some concept of the agony that would cause me?

Some day they suffer and are ashamed at the pain they've caused and others say they can't feel remorse and just move on.

I know he loved me but not as much as I loved him apparently, because I could never have disappeared without a word.

Narellan, I really think mine loved me more than I loved her at some points. It's the intensity of emotion, which as Boris points out, but not depth, or  sustainability. The flip side of that can be hate or indifference. Unregulated emotions out of control. In your case, you have his brain injury thrown into the equation, though that doesn't make his behaviors any less damaging and hurtful to you.

What I wrote above are thoughts that reference things I've gotten from reading things from recovered pwBPD (who better to tell us than someone who suffered from it?), and also a bit from Understanding The Borderline Mother which I started reading, but suddenly have 6 books going at once, so I took a break from it for a while.

[rodman8]

Yea, yea, yea.  I hear everybody on here.  It all sounds so damn familiar that I often wonder if one of these times on here, I am going to find that it is indeed my ex someone is talking about!  I too wonder did she purposely manipulate me, was it subconcious, a little of both?  No idea.  All I will say is that I am taking my ex to court if she does not pay back my money.  That letter will be sent to her in the next three days, and I am ready to move forward with this.  I wish it did not have to be this way, but I refuse to let her get away with any more bad behavior.  I dont deserve it, never deserved it, and I am at my wits end.  In the end, I may never get a dime from her, but at least she will have to deal with the court order, and it will require some responsibility on her end.  Do I still love her even though she cut me out of her life and blocked me from social media three months ago?  This after I lent her $3,000, and in fact should have been held in even higher regard?  Yes, I still love her.  I still care for her.  Crazy, isn't it?  The difference is that I have had time to process the whole thing, and I get a little bit better month to month.  I hear you all though.  I have those days or even weeks where it seems like it happened yesterday, and I miss her and cry for her all over again.  I had one of those weeks last week.  Anything can trigger it... .a memory, a picture, etc.  I hate feeling like that, and yet there is a strange beauty in the sadness of it all.  Yes, it does feel so good to love someone like that and for them to (seemingly) love you like that.  It is an intoxicating feeling.  That is why we lament so heavily on the feeling.  Because it felt so damn good.  I dont fall for women very often... .about once every 5-6 years on average.  When it happens, we hope that this will be the one.  I honestly started to believe a couple months into the relationship that I in fact had fount THE ONE.  Yes, I still cry.  Man, do I cry.

[Infared]

Mine was a knockout, and so my type it is not even funny.  However, I never even knew what BPD was until she seemed to change her feelings about me overnight.  All I thought was that she was so charming, sweet, and seemed like a good person.  I was so drawn to her looks, fun personality, and how incredibly "into me" she was.  Her thing was pulling disappearing acts, and cutting me off at the times when we seemed to be the closest.  She never raged or threw things.  She just constantly left me in the dark and  her fears of abandonment and engulfment were all present.

Hmmmm... .did I write that or did you! LOL! My experience exactly.

[goldylamont]

Turkish I get so confused because some people say BPDs feel things so much stronger than we do and others say they just mirror us and are incapable of loving.

no need to be confused Narellan here, although your confusion is understandable. i think your confusion comes from your more 'normal' perspective of emotions, which are more stable, don't change on a dime, and are more closely rooted in reality. let's contrast that to what we know about BPD using insight Turkish was sharing--a pwBPD has emotions which are not stable, that do change on a dime, that are less rooted in reality.

you mention three things here (very perceptive) about pwBPD:

1) feel things much stronger than we do -- i would add to this that i think all of us could have emotions just as strong as they do, but because we have a truer sense of reality so our emotions aren't always at volume 11. i don't think pwBPD are gifted with stronger abilities to love/hate than i. i'm just as passionate as my ex about life. more so in some aspects. i simply think they have a different version of reality where these feelings are justified for them, not so much for us.

2) they mirror us -- as Turkish mentioned, you can learn a lot by listening to actual pwBPD discuss this. to generalize, i think many (most?) in adulthood (let's say by 30 or so) are aware of this on some level simply because they've done it so much. probably much less aware or not at all as a teenager/young adult. i posted a string of quotes from pwBPD previously where they openly discuss mirroring. some found it odd and were introspective. some thought it was funny how they could manipulate and control people by reflecting them.

3) they are incapable of loving -- i think the tone of this thread, which i wholly agree with, is that pwBPD do experience loving emotions, but it differs from ours because it's not consistent or sustainable. and the intensity of the love (or hate) far outweighs what's actually happening in reality. so perhaps a better way of saying this is "they are incapable of loving in the same consistent sustainable way that we are".

soo, thus and therefore  my point is that all three of these things are *true*. more than this, they don't contradict each other. i think your perspective that only one of these things can be true about your ex indicates your personal thinking, which is more stable, more long term and consistent. you wouldn't be able to do all these things, but your ex does.

did your ex love you? yes. did he hate you? yes. did he mirror you? yes   and you have the insight and intelligence i think over time to figure out what feels most real to you about each of these questions. my take is what he said when you were making love, it was real in that moment. and what he did after your r/s ended was just as real. both felt very real to you, no? so trust that feeling. you're beeeeautiful daaaarling you can trust yourself 

If my ex loved me even half as much as I loved him how could he try and replace me with my best friend? Wouldn't he have some concept of the agony that would cause me?

this is less confusing by understanding his motivations here. sure, some of this could have been his abandonment issues and needing to enmesh with someone else. but what's not mentioned enough in my opinion is pwBPD's need to punish and seek revenge against people they feel have slighted them. it wasn't only that your ex wanted to connect with another woman--you saw the evidence yourself, he sent that picture of you two kissing right and then made a mockery of you and your r/s to her. he also provoked you by posting up nude/semi-nude photos of you right? to get a reaction out of you. i think it's safe to say in this moment he had a hatred for you, or at least a lot of contempt.

of course your ex knew the agony he was causing you. because he wanted to cause you agony. anyone that harbors so much jealousy and concern for infidelities in a r/s is fully aware of how terrible it feels to be cheated on, devalued, played with, abandoned. because of their PD they 'feel' this way intensely about you at some point, so then they do all/some of the above to punish you for making them feel this way. this is their revenge for your perceived transgressions. simple as that.

Some day they suffer and are ashamed at the pain they've caused and others say they can't feel remorse and just move on.

again both are true, often for the same individual. pwBPD can feel lots of shame for ways they behave, but in the moment no there's no remorse. because in the moment you deserve to be treated like crap. then on monday they love you again and want to act like it didn't happen. actually none of it happened. actually, why are you bringing it up again? uugghh! want to go get pizza?

[Infared]

I love this from Goldylamont:

"did your ex love you? yes. did he hate you? yes. did he mirror you? yes  "

Yes... yes... .it all depends on which self-centered childish minute you are in. It all changes from black to white at any given moment.  Remember "Borderline"refers to "the borderline of schizophrenia".  :)ees people be CRAZY... .there is no reasoning with these relationship situations... .and I believe that is "our" deep pain and frustration... .we keep using "reason" to try and sort this out. Doesn't work.  

[Blimblam]

Not to get to dry on you, but pwBPD feel the same emotions we do, just so much more intensely. Unable to control those emotions, it is the fickle nature of the disorder. It was real when he expressed it to you, no doubt. This is a recurring question here, "did they really love us?" In most cases, I think they did. But with the emotional dysregulation, the emotions cycle, not constant, nor consistent.

This is what I've come to believe as well, Turkish.  I do think the emotion was sincere, at least in some way, at the time they expressed it.  It's just that sustaining it is impossible.  The problem with BPD is that emotions are always in flux, and since emotion dictates reality, reality is always changing.  Just because they love you now doesn't mean they will love you tomorrow.

I do not believe my ex feels emotions more intensely than me. More irrationally?yes.  With less complexity? yes. A more limited set of emotions? yes. A lack of self reflection and insight? yes

[Infared]

"I thought I was watching Cinderella until I realized I was watching The Exorcist."

BlimBlam... .that is soo poignant!  Oh, how I wish it were not true... .but alas, that is what I experienced.

[Ziggiddy]

blimblam - well said <applauds>