BPD ex living abroad trying to prevent me from seeing son

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

What a messy situation.

I met this girl online in 2012. She's now 29 and I'm 24. She seemed like a really sweet and innocent woman; she was a kindergarten teacher (turned out she's actually a supply teacher who often turned down work/wouldn't get called for weeks and was unable to find a full-time position) who didn't have much of a dating history because she said she didn't really like most men out there. She was gorgeous and soft-spoken, so it baffled me she didn't have someone by now. I also did not have much of a dating history, also (or at least  I'd like to think) by choice.

At the end of the day, all I want is a relationship with my son that's not polluted by uBPDex and uBPDex's mother constantly intruding and making ridiculous accusations.  I really feel the need to save him from these insane people so he does not grow up as miserable as they are.

Relationship history:

•   We met online sometime around March 2012

•   We chatted on and off for a few months, and around October 2012 uBPDex started asking me if I’d be okay if she came and visited

•   In December 2013 I finally agreed to have her visit for 4 days and in February 2013 she visited for 4 days

•   She visited again in late August 2013 for 2 weeks

•   About 1-1.5 weeks after she returned to England, she informed me of her pregnancy

•   In early October 2013, I visited England (if it were not for the pregnancy we were planning on sometime around December) for 1 week (I only took one vacation day and my boss allowed me to work remotely for the week)

•   In December-January 2013, she came and visited me in Canada for 1 month and I took 16 days off work during that time

•   In Feb-March 2014, I visited England again for 2 weeks, this time on vacation from work

•   In mid-April 2014, I took a leave of absence (unpaid) from work (effective until September 2nd, 2014) with the plan to be in England for the birth of our baby, wait until uBPDex felt ready, then move back to Canada and get settled for the summer

•   On May 5, 2014, our son, the baby, was born

•   On May 14, 2014, I left uBPDex family’s house (she lives with her parents) for reasons I’ll outline below to stay in a hotel; on May 15 uBPDex found out which hotel I was in and came and visited me with the baby and on May 16 I left the country

The reason why I left:

•   From September 2013 until I left England on May 14 (including after the baby was born), uBPDex told me that she wanted to break up with me more or less EVERY week (that’s not an exaggeration…3 weeks was maybe the longest span without an incident, sometimes multiple times a week); she would then tell me she "wasn't serious" and just wanted to "test" me... .it was a game that got old really quickly

•   During my trip in October, uBPDex told me, “I saw a psychiatrist when I was 17 and he told me I have symptoms of ‘borderline personality disorder,’ but I’m NOT crazy….I’m not crazy….I swear I’m not crazy and there’s nothing to worry about I just wanted to let you know. Sometimes I push people away to test them because I’m afraid they’re going to leave me but I don’t actually mean it.”

•   She also told me that as a teenager she had cut her wrists and once had, “pills lined up because [she] was ready to kill [herself],” but insisted, “it’s not a big deal because that was when I was a teenager and I’m not like that anymore”

•   I didn’t think much of this at the time (I got stressed, but close friends encouraged me to give her a break due to pregnancy hormones and the stress of the situation) and continually brushed her breaking up with me (and other seemingly inexplicable situations) as a function of stress from both the pregnancy and being in a different country

•   In late March 2014, when tension continued to mount despite constantly brushing it off, I mentioned the borderline personality disorder (BPD) comment to my mother while trying to figure out the situation; she looked up the disorder and the core of it is, “an extreme fear of being alone and/or abandoned”

•   I kept trying to wait things out (e.g. wait until the whole baby thing set in, wait for her to come visit me, wait for me to go visit her, wait for the baby to be born, wait for her to come to Canada, etc.), but incidents of ridiculous arguments escalated to the point where I felt like I needed to mention to her father the BPD comment

•   Her father, who I always had a great relationship with until the day I left, responded, “That’s just psychiatrists trying to justify their profession”

•   Her father mentioned this conversation to uBPDex (despite agreeing not to), and she awoke me on the morning of May 12 and got really upset that I told her father about the BPD comment

•   She insisted that she never said anything close to what I remember and what REALLY happened was, I met with a family law psychologist in Canada and here are the key takeaways I had (her opinion of what I “should” do in the baby's best interests as opposed to what my options are in the eyes of the law)

•   Having a relationship with a child in another country is extremely difficult, especially with an infant, even if parents are on good terms

•   It’s not beneficial for a child under the age of 2 (and especially in the first 6 months) to be away from parents they are trying to build a bond with for more than a day or two (i.e. her)

•   It’s impossible to build a bond with a child under the age of 2 unless you are around them everyone couple of days (i.e. I’d have to move to England almost immediately have any type of bond)

•   Given the BPD (we assumed she has BPD for the purpose of the conversation we had – she agreed that it sounded like it but did not want that to be considered a proper diagnosis), interaction with uBPDex could be dangerous for my relationship with the baby because my presence would ignite her conflict-seeking behaviour and in the long-run there is a risk that he associates me with stressful situations since she may give rise to stress simply because I’m around

•   Unless uBPDex is self-mutilating or neglecting/abusing the baby, it’s going to take no less than hundreds of thousands of dollars to get custody of him and even then nothing is guaranteed

•   Re-introduction at a particular age can be an option, if uBPDex agrees to it (update on this one: the lawyer and I don't really think this is an option because uBPDex is trying to insist I have a relationship with the baby and not skip any opportunity to see him, but I need to visit under her terms)

•   The purpose would be to wait until he is an age that he is old enough to come spend time with me alone, but it may take work for him to feel comfortable (and depends heavily on what she says to him about me)

•   Both this psychologist and the lawyer (in Canada) said that as much as they’d have trouble doing it themselves, to consider walking away from the baby completely to avoid dealing with uBPDex

My objectives:

•   I’d like to establish the healthiest possible long-term relationship with my son, given the circumstances (that I have strong reason to believe uBPDex has BPD and the fact that she lives in another country)

•   I want to support my son as much as I can

•   I’d like to come to an agreement with uBPDex outside of court, but given the way she has behaved (see below), it may be difficult

•   Given what the psychologist and I talked about (and I’m aware this may completely change after we have discussions I’m just trying to form a running-hypothesis), I personally think the best option to achieve my objectives would be to offer an agreement where I can see the baby in England for a few weeks a year, when he’s comfortable he can stay overnight with me in England, and when he’s comfortable with that maybe visit me in Canada for 4-6 weeks per year.

[projectBmode]

What a messy situation.

I met this girl online in 2012. She's now 29 and I'm 24. She seemed like a really sweet and innocent woman; she was a kindergarten teacher (turned out she's actually a supply teacher who often turned down work/wouldn't get called for weeks and was unable to find a full-time position) who didn't have much of a dating history because she said she didn't really like most men out there. She was gorgeous and soft-spoken, so it baffled me she didn't have someone by now. I also did not have much of a dating history, also (or at least  I'd like to think) by choice.

At the end of the day, all I want is a relationship with my son that's not polluted by uBPDex and uBPDex's mother constantly intruding and making ridiculous accusations.  I really feel the need to save him from these insane people so he does not grow up as miserable as they are.

Relationship history:

•   We met online sometime around March 2012

•   We chatted on and off for a few months, and around October 2012 uBPDex started asking me if I’d be okay if she came and visited

•   In December 2013 I finally agreed to have her visit for 4 days and in February 2013 she visited for 4 days

•   She visited again in late August 2013 for 2 weeks

•   About 1-1.5 weeks after she returned to England, she informed me of her pregnancy

•   In early October 2013, I visited England (if it were not for the pregnancy we were planning on sometime around December) for 1 week (I only took one vacation day and my boss allowed me to work remotely for the week)

•   In December-January 2013, she came and visited me in Canada for 1 month and I took 16 days off work during that time

•   In Feb-March 2014, I visited England again for 2 weeks, this time on vacation from work

•   In mid-April 2014, I took a leave of absence (unpaid) from work (effective until September 2nd, 2014) with the plan to be in England for the birth of our baby, wait until uBPDex felt ready, then move back to Canada and get settled for the summer

•   On May 5, 2014, our son, the baby, was born

•   On May 14, 2014, I left uBPDex family’s house (she lives with her parents) for reasons I’ll outline below to stay in a hotel; on May 15 uBPDex found out which hotel I was in and came and visited me with the baby and on May 16 I left the country

The reason why I left:

•   From September 2013 until I left England on May 14 (including after the baby was born), uBPDex told me that she wanted to break up with me more or less EVERY week (that’s not an exaggeration…3 weeks was maybe the longest span without an incident, sometimes multiple times a week); she would then tell me she "wasn't serious" and just wanted to "test" me... .it was a game that got old really quickly

•   During my trip in October, uBPDex told me, “I saw a psychiatrist when I was 17 and he told me I have symptoms of ‘borderline personality disorder,’ but I’m NOT crazy….I’m not crazy….I swear I’m not crazy and there’s nothing to worry about I just wanted to let you know. Sometimes I push people away to test them because I’m afraid they’re going to leave me but I don’t actually mean it.”

•   She also told me that as a teenager she had cut her wrists and once had, “pills lined up because [she] was ready to kill [herself],” but insisted, “it’s not a big deal because that was when I was a teenager and I’m not like that anymore”

•   I didn’t think much of this at the time (I got stressed, but close friends encouraged me to give her a break due to pregnancy hormones and the stress of the situation) and continually brushed her breaking up with me (and other seemingly inexplicable situations) as a function of stress from both the pregnancy and being in a different country

•   In late March 2014, when tension continued to mount despite constantly brushing it off, I mentioned the borderline personality disorder (BPD) comment to my mother while trying to figure out the situation; she looked up the disorder and the core of it is, “an extreme fear of being alone and/or abandoned”

•   I kept trying to wait things out (e.g. wait until the whole baby thing set in, wait for her to come visit me, wait for me to go visit her, wait for the baby to be born, wait for her to come to Canada, etc.), but incidents of ridiculous arguments escalated to the point where I felt like I needed to mention to her father the BPD comment

•   Her father, who I always had a great relationship with until the day I left, responded, “That’s just psychiatrists trying to justify their profession”

•   Her father mentioned this conversation to uBPDex (despite agreeing not to), and she awoke me on the morning of May 12 and got really upset that I told her father about the BPD comment

•   She insisted that she never said anything close to what I remember and what REALLY happened was, I met with a family law psychologist in Canada and here are the key takeaways I had (her opinion of what I “should” do in the baby's best interests as opposed to what my options are in the eyes of the law)

•   Having a relationship with a child in another country is extremely difficult, especially with an infant, even if parents are on good terms

•   It’s not beneficial for a child under the age of 2 (and especially in the first 6 months) to be away from parents they are trying to build a bond with for more than a day or two (i.e. her)

•   It’s impossible to build a bond with a child under the age of 2 unless you are around them everyone couple of days (i.e. I’d have to move to England almost immediately have any type of bond)

•   Given the BPD (we assumed she has BPD for the purpose of the conversation we had – she agreed that it sounded like it but did not want that to be considered a proper diagnosis), interaction with uBPDex could be dangerous for my relationship with the baby because my presence would ignite her conflict-seeking behaviour and in the long-run there is a risk that he associates me with stressful situations since she may give rise to stress simply because I’m around

•   Unless uBPDex is self-mutilating or neglecting/abusing the baby, it’s going to take no less than hundreds of thousands of dollars to get custody of him and even then nothing is guaranteed

•   Re-introduction at a particular age can be an option, if uBPDex agrees to it (update on this one: the lawyer and I don't really think this is an option because uBPDex is trying to insist I have a relationship with the baby and not skip any opportunity to see him, but I need to visit under her terms)

•   The purpose would be to wait until he is an age that he is old enough to come spend time with me alone, but it may take work for him to feel comfortable (and depends heavily on what she says to him about me)

•   Both this psychologist and the lawyer (in Canada) said that as much as they’d have trouble doing it themselves, to consider walking away from the baby completely to avoid dealing with uBPDex

My objectives:

•   I’d like to establish the healthiest possible long-term relationship with my son, given the circumstances (that I have strong reason to believe uBPDex has BPD and the fact that she lives in another country)

•   I want to support my son as much as I can

•   I’d like to come to an agreement with uBPDex outside of court, but given the way she has behaved (see below), it may be difficult

•   Given what the psychologist and I talked about (and I’m aware this may completely change after we have discussions I’m just trying to form a running-hypothesis), I personally think the best option to achieve my objectives would be to offer an agreement where I can see the baby in England for a few weeks a year, when he’s comfortable he can stay overnight with me in England, and when he’s comfortable with that maybe visit me in Canada for 4-6 weeks per year.

[ForeverDad]

She's telling me... .blah, blah, blah... .Really, There's nothing your ex or her supporters will say that will be positive for you.  Sadly, accept that.  As some have written here, "I know when he/she is lying when his/her mouth opens." :'(  So, for your own self-preservation, you need to learn skills to deflect these personal attacks from having so much impact on you.  Yes, easier said than done.  But you can minimize their impact.  It takes greater confidence in yourself, an ability to see it and call it for what it is, nonsensical denigrating and disparaging you as father.

Think of being in a terrible rainstorm.  Getting soaked is one of the most miserable situations.  But someone hands you an umbrella, you open it and things are vastly different.  Yes, it's still raining hard.  Yes, your shoes and even legs are getting splashed, but the worst is blocked and you can concentrate better on getting done the things that need to be done.  Now, about you... .Can you imagine opening an emotional umbrella whenever any thoughts about the situation are discussed, when you have contact with her, etc?

Try to learn to disregard or divert your frustrations with her obstructions, claims, etc.  It is what it is, she is what she is.  By now you've learned you can't change her, fix her or anything like that.  Accept that.  Focus on dealing with the problems she causes.

For example, you can't answer every claim she's made, that's impractical and would consume too much of your energy.  Can you... .(1) deny her claims overall, force it to be framed as "he-said, she-said" that eventually is considered to be unsubstantiated hearsay?  (2) chose some good examples you can prove never happened, respond to those with proof she's lying?  By the way, court will not call her an outright liar, it will passively state, maybe, that her statements were "unsubstantiated", maybe even "not credible"?  (3) Based on the examples proven false by your documentation, extend that as an umbrella for all her other complaints, that it's really just "sour grapes" over the failed relationship, that she's trying to "punish" you in retaliation through the courts and she's posturing as a victim to obstruct your parenting?

Frankly, that should be a strategy, or something like it, proposed by your lawyer.  (Disclaimer, we here in peer support are not lawyers.)

With an international scenario, it is and will be difficult.  But you don't have to walk away and leave your wallet behind.  As another thought, I don't think they can block you from getting your child a passport for your nationality.  What they can do is have the court restrict its use, admittedly a fine line of distinction.  My point is that you don't have to lose every battle.  There may be some ways to prevail in time.

[livednlearned]

You are sure it's your child?

I'm not being flippant, just that... .I would want proof given the complexity of everything going on.

[projectBmode]

I have not had any official tests done, but I'm almost certain for 3 reasons:

• She has been living at home and despite the image she created of herself being out and saving the world on a daily basis, she was largely locked up in the family living room (after spending more time with her, you could tell she was someone who didn't get out much)



• My son looks identical to my baby photos



• Since it was a long distance relationship, the timing of his birth coincides exactly with when she visited (if it wasn't mine, something would have had to happen the week before she arrived); she was with me more or less the entire time during her visit

I know a test would really piss her off, but it may be worth asking for one given how far her lies have gone.


Thanks for the tips on how to deal with it emotionally. Already, things have gotten a lot better since the beginning. I've been taking a strategy similar to what you've suggested, although I don't think you can hear it enough. Everytime I receive a response from her now, I say to myself, "Is this not exactly what I expected?" My post is what I sent to the lawyer near the beginning, so it's a little more emotional than I am at the present moment (it's kind of funny, because whenever I try to respond calmly I get yelled at for being, "Cold".

At this stage, things are not yet in court; we're negotiating directly at the moment (the lawyer has told me that we have to show a reasonable effort before a court application). In terms of combatting uBPDex's arguments, I actually am on the same page. In my responses to her I don't even acknowledge anything that's not directly relevant to our son and my defense would be to try and show that these conversations are completely irrelevant and have no evidence behind them (she once told me in front of her parents that I was a "dictator who made all the rules", so I asked her point blank in front of her parents to tell me one decision I've made she's disagreed with and she had nothing - all her statements are entirely vague like "he's cruel" - ok, but what have I done that's cruel? Hang up the phone when you call my house 8 times in a row yelling at me?). Even without evidence, just asking her for specificity shows that there's nothing substantial behind her claims; I've already had dozens of friends come forward and offer letters of reference if needed because not one other person I know would make a claim about me like she has (everyone I knew was shocked that I had an unexpected pregnancy).

Her response was riddled with contradictions that I'm trying to expose on paper (e.g. she said my parents seeing him would be "too many strangers" and "overwhelming", despite her inviting her whole family over 5 days after his birth) in the event things go to court.

I've tried to ask my lawyer at several points if her claims would hold up in court and what the court would actually allow. She keeps sort of brushing it off and saying, "Anything now is a handshake agreement that she can renege on." I keep explaining to my lawyer how I can call bulls**t on anything uBPDex says, but she doesn't really give me much of a response when I mention court. The only thing she's said is, "The court will encourage you seeing him and the court will eventually encourage overnight rights and visits to Canada once he's old enough." My problem with all this is that uBPDex agrees to these things, but her actions don't align with her words. She says, "You can visit him whenever you want, but my mother will be there because he's too young to be left with strangers." Bottom line: I can out logic her any argument, but the lawyer doesn't seem to think it matters.

In terms of citizenship, I've found my answer there. All I need is to get a passport photo of him and I can apply for it without his knowledge. I haven't looked into a passport, but I'm sure that's a piece of cake once I have his citizenship.

I like your comment about time. My goal is to buy him an iPad or something the second he's old enough to read and write so I can communicate with him daily. It's just going to be an extra struggle for the first two years (or until I get overnight rights) because I know any time with him is just a charade to prove in the eyes of the law I'm making an effort to see him.

Thanks for the support