Silent treatment followed by dysfunctional communication

[HopefulPapaOf2]

My uBPD wife and I are seperated (She got me into legal trouble and there is a court order restricting me from going home)

I had wanted to talk with her, but she said she needed time (prior to this we had talked every day of our relationship) and has not said anything for a month.

Finally, she chatted to me to let me know she'd talk to a mediator (not yet for divorce, but just to have a 3rd party to discuss all options)

The conversation very quickly shifted into dysfunction.

Specifically, it was either stuff that she's been angry about in the past (literally 100s of times, the same thing), or random things that either weren't true or were misunderstood.

One example - We had taken a single car ride over a year ago with my ex-wife and my daughter.

My daughter was asking about a divorce paper. My ex-wife said: "It's just a paper, your dad and I can be friends still, even though we've divorced"

What my wife HEARD was: "The divorce is just on paper, we're still together"

She said nothing at the time, but later was very angry.

I asked her at the time if it was possible she misheard or misunderstood the context (she's Japanese, so it's certainly at least possible, right?)

I've now heard this conversation 100s of times, always: "Remember? Your ex said the divorce is just on paper, so divorce means nothing! Marriage means nothing too!"

Each time, I've tried to say something like: "This is true - I divorced from my ex, I don't want to be with her. I married you, I'm with you and I choose you and I love you"

But it always immediately devolves.

I think she finds a way to CHOOSE this kind of conversation when she's feeling angry/upset and wants to let it out through a good old rage fit.

Now she's told me that She'll contact the mediator (sometime... .week? 2 weeks? more possibly?) to discuss a "health issue" she's having.

My wife is 7 months pregnant, so this is concerning to me to say the least!

I'm pretty sure I'm in for another couple weeks at least of silent treatment.

So my questions are:

- When the conversation is devolving into some deflecting familiar story, is there anything that I can do to get things back on track? Strategies?

- When you're facing the silent treatment (again, this is now a month, and I'm looking right now at just beginning the next stretch) how do you cope?

(She's shut out all of our common contacts, so unless she talks to the mediator, I have no idea what she's telling friends and family - likely just bad stuff about me)

We're at a point where VERY VERY VERY basic communication seems to be a no go.

Thanks.

Peace, Love, and Healing to you all.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[ColdEthyl]

Specifically, it was either stuff that she's been angry about in the past (literally 100s of times, the same thing), or random things that either weren't true or were misunderstood.

Don't I know all too well. I'm interested in hearing some suggestions, myself. For the moment, I've stopped trying to correct him on crap he's making up, and just nod. I try to find something out of what he says and say "I understand that feeling" or something like that.

[cartman1]

Hi there buddy,

I have not been here for a while so I have forgot how to find the bits and pieces so hopefully an Ambi can help us out. The communication question you asked brings to mind the old S.E.T. technique, this is a good way to communicate to anybody in an emmotional state, not just people with BPD. It basically stands for Support or sympathy, Empathy and Trust or Truth. So if you are presented with a sentance like "You made me feel hurt." With this communication technique you could reply with "Sorry I never intended to hurt you (support), I would feel upset too if I thought somebody was trying to hurt me (empathy.) However, I was trying to point out (truth.)"

With regards to the what do people do when they are getting the silent treatment.  I think the best answer to that question is to enjoy a little me time. It is natural to worry over people we care about when we are not in contact with them. However, we do need to take care of ourselves. It gives you the opportunity to maybe do things we enjoy or go see friends we haven't seen in a while.

I hope this post helps.

[HopefulPapaOf2]

Thanks for the replies ^_^

ColdEthyl, cartman1 - I've been trying to use S.E.T actually, and I was wondering (as a kind of side question) if there is a place (or maybe even in this thread) to post conversations.

I'm sure there are plenty of times people post conversations (with names replaced) as a method of venting.

Instead, I'd actually like to see a brutally honest review of where I should be improving my technique.

I'm not a master of this, so I'd like to see what kind of things I can be doing differently.

I'm quite aware that "crafting the perfect conversation" is an insane goal.

Instead, regardless of whether or not this relationship works out (I hope!) or not, I'd like to be more understanding and more SKILLED at de-escalating conflicts in the future.

Is this thread a good place to "dump" a relatively short conversation? or is there a better board section to do this in to get a brutally honest "review"?

cartman1, I am doing exactly that, focusing on rebuilding my support structures (family and friends), reaching out, and attending spiritual meetings, joining groups. And though I'm often depressed or anxious, I'm doing MUCH better than a week ago.

I'll continue on this path, so thanks so much for the support!

One question I have here is: Dealing with a uBPD SO, how do others deal with away time in regards to the implied guilt of "having fun"?

I mean, at many points in the past, my wife has said: I'm suffering while we're apart (It's her choosing the amount of time we're apart)

When I do FINALLY have a good time, I feel "I shouldn't be feeling happy when she's suffering" This is wrong of course, but I "feel it" pretty intensely at times.

How are others coping with this?

Thanks!

[CodependentHusband]

Sorry to hear about what you are going through. I know it is stressful. My wife has similar issues with jealousy and paranoid ideation about my ex-wife as well. The fact that my parents talk to my ex in order to facilitate visits and overnight stays of my daughter at their house drives my dBPDw absolutely crazy. I'm not currently separated, but I have been several times for 1 to three weeks at a time, mostly during the first 2 years of my 4 year marriage to dBPDw. Anyway, I think I have some idea of the pain and frustration this must be causing you. In fact, my wife is currently giving me the silent treatment over the fact that we can't afford a weekend getaway to one of the most expensive resorts in out part of the country. Offers to go somewhere else nice for a weekend more fitting for our current budget were reacted to in a very negative way by her... .

That's all another story though. You asked what will help, and I can tell you a few things that have worked for me. First, I think, is to realize that if your wife has BPD she can't help her out of control emotions that are causing her to go into a state of dystegulation, causing her to behave in immature ways like giving the silent treatment. Outsiders will usually view what I just stated as an excuse for poor behavior by an adult. They are free to have that feeling, but until they've read as many books on BPD as I have, and actually lived with someone suffering from this, I'll consider their opinion with those facts in mind. Fact is, she could learn to overcome this, but it would take years of the right kind of therapy. There may also be some physiological factors involved which makes it more challenging for her. Some recent studies seem to support a theory that people with BPD are more probe at any given time to have a fear response... .I'm going from imperfect memory here, but it may be an underdeveloped hippocampus that can contribute to this increased propensity to the fear response. How does knowing this help? Well, it makes me feel a lot less resentful about her silent treatment when I know that she's not doing all of this on purpose.

Second, don't JADE. You have to really and truly realize that no matter how much you try to explain things to her, when she is dysregulated, her emotions are going to be so intense that she will have a hard time thinking clearly, so, logic and empathy for you go by the wayside. When my dBPDw says things that aren't true, like, "you don't care about me, and it's clear because I deserve a husband that will plan a trip for me." My response is brief, but firm and consistent, "I care about you. I wish we could afford the place you want to go. We can still go to a less expensive resort if you want." I disengage other than that, because if I continue to have a discussion with her when she is dusregulated, she will twist things into having a negative meaning. You have to completely let go of the idea that she will ever see your side of things. She might one day if you are lucky, but she might not ever either. Don't lose your cool, and stay consistent without being condescending, and find some peace in knowing that's all you can do. It takes a lot of patience and time to get results, but I'm convinced it helps make things as good as they can possibly be. In the first two years of my marriage, I would be a basket case right now. Now though, I feel a very mild sadness that my wife is in this state. I get comfort from knowing that it will pass, just like every cycle of dysregulation before. It's enough to allow me to function, enjoy my time in the other end of the house, and make the best of it.

Finally, the advice to validate her feelings is also good advice, but you must be careful in exactly how you go about validating. Only validate that which you truly understand. For example, don't validate her feelings about what she thinks she heard your ex-wife say. Some topics are triggers, and if your ex-wife is a trigger like mine is, it's better to stick to only what absolutely needs to be communicated, such as, "ex wants to swap weekends. I'm okay with it, but it potentially affects you to. You okay with the change?"

Anyway, I fear I'm rambling now. Not sure if anything I wrote helps in any way, but I hope it does. Knowing that I'm not the only one dealing with this helps me, and through a lot of practice of the tools and advice here, my marriage has improved on the whole. Hope that you can get to a better place too, although knowing that with BPD in the picture things will never be 'normal'

[CodependentHusband]

HopefulPapaO,

    Just read your post from the same time I was posting. That guilty feeling about having good feelings when your wife is suffering sounds an awful lot like codependency. I'm not saying that in a judgmental way, so much, but more in the way that when we loon into a mirror we recognize ourselves. (my user name says it all, does it not). Anyway, read up on "detaching with love" and codependency on this site. Detaching with love is a lot of hard work, takes practice, and is a very long process. Finding the right balance is one of the toughest parts, in my opinion. What ever you do, don't act all happy or over the top (even if you really feel that way) in front of your wife when she is angry or depressed. You have to find that happy medium, because it sends a message that you do not care that she is upset. Nowadays, when my wife has me painted black, I am cordial to her, no matter how she responds, and I disengage when I see that communication isn't productive. Understanding when and how to gently disengage is extremely important. Has to be done in a compassionate way, and without resentment.

[Rapt Reader]

Instead, I'd actually like to see a brutally honest review of where I should be improving my technique.

I'm not a master of this, so I'd like to see what kind of things I can be doing differently.

I'm quite aware that "crafting the perfect conversation" is an insane goal.

Instead, regardless of whether or not this relationship works out (I hope!) or not, I'd like to be more understanding and more SKILLED at de-escalating conflicts in the future.

Is this thread a good place to "dump" a relatively short conversation? or is there a better board section to do this in to get a brutally honest "review"?

Yessir, this is the right place to do that kind of trouble-shooting, HopefulPapaOf2 

You can post your conversation(s) in this thread if you'd like, and we can help with a critique that should be very illuminating for you, and for the others reading the thread... .

Please do that when you can, Okay? 

[HopefulPapaOf2]

Hi all, thanks so much for the helpful replies.

I won't be posting my previous conversation here, because that situation has become moderately irrelevant.

I've been forced out of the "staying" category.

My pregnant uBPD wife has decided to not only leave me, but go out with a bang, shaming me in a very public way.

Now I might never meet my unborn son, as she may leave the country before I can do anything about it.

I am hugely frustrated due to manipulative public allegations I can do nothing about.

I am experiencing a deep, and profound loss at the same time

- I really do love her, and that's why I wanted to try to work things out

- I LOVE children (I have an 8 yr old daughter that I get along fabulously with), but with my son, I will for sure not be able to witness/participate in his birth, and also may be robbed of the opportunity to know him at all.

What a loss this is, and it just really increases suffering for everyone involved.

I know I will survive this, I know I have to.

At the same time, it feels like too much on top of too much on top of too much.

Luckily, I have a great support system now. That's literally a life saver.

Oh, and CodependentHusband, I agree with you, I am either codependent or have at least a number of codependent traits.

I did not have this issue with my ex wife of 8 yrs (who I still get along with quite well)

But in this relationship with my uBPD (soon to be ex) wife, it really triggered all me "Caretaker" responses deeply.

This is an aspect of my life in which I'll need to dig deep down to resolve some things for sure, so I agree with your observation.

I guess I'll soon be moving to the "Recovering" and "Legal/Divorce issues" boards.

Thanks for your help.

Peace, Love, and Healing to you all.

[Indyan]

Hi HopefulPapa,

I can so much relate to your issues.

My BPD kept leaving when I was pregnant. One day I told him that carrying on this way I'll end up alone for birth. He twisted that into "I'll give birth on my own, go way piece of sht".

Anyway... .he's always the victim in the story... .

He was around when baby was born, and actually he took great care of baby and I. But 6 months later he cracked up: paranoia, victimisation... .and left me suddenly to go and stay with his family :-(

I am now alone with a 9 month baby boy and my D10.

He's told so much rubbish about me to his family that all they advised him was... .to leave me for good. How sad.

I loved him so much, but now I don't know anymore what to feel. I guess I'm somewhere between sadness and anger.

And like you we can't communicate anymore.

2 weeks ago he sent me text messages to "beg me to make an appointment with a mediator".

Subsequently he sent a notice letter to the landlord (useless as we're both on the lease, but still... .) and demanded to take baby away for the whole day and didn't bring him back at arranged time while refusing to answer my calls.

I then asked him about mediation, since that was his idea.

He answered "I'm not into mediation anymore, I want to see the judge" (?)

I remained calm (for the first time - seeing a lawyer really helped me on this) and just answered "judges like people who are able to discuss things calmly with a mediator".

Since then I got no reply on this. He sent me very courteous messages about coming to see baby last week.

But this week, silence.

Yes, we'll survive, no choice.

But it does feel like too much on top of too much. Sometimes I wonder where my pain will end and if it will end one day.

The only thing I can advise you on is to try not react to her provocations. That's what I've been doing lately, and he's stopped them altogether. I'm not saying I've succeeded in anything of course, but at least I've had two weeks of relative peace.

[HopefulPapaOf2]

Indyan,

Thanks for your message.

That sounds very very difficult, you must be going through times when you suffer a lot.

As bad as my situation is, I'd think that BEING pregnant and in love with a pwBPD is even harder.

I guess people with BPD can't see how much suffering is being created in a situation like this because they (seemingly) can only see how overwhelming things are for them.

The ramifications seems pretty clear for nons, "Hey, this baby would be so much better off with 2 healthy parents committed to loving them in a safe, and healthy environment"

(Or at the very least, 1 healthy/mending parent, and another parent that is willing to get DBT therapy and make some effort... etc)

It just seems like such a shame... Such a wasteful, painful path to choose, doesn't it?

I haven't gotten any contact from her, and I don't expect to.

But if she does, I'll try to stay strong and not react to her provocations (as you've suggested)

You said you've gotten some relative peace.

Even "relative" peace seems like a big achievement considering everything you've got going on!

Well done, I'd say.

We'll keep going! ^_^

Peace, Love, and Healing to you all

[Indyan]

As bad as my situation is, I'd think that BEING pregnant and in love with a pwBPD is even harder.

Yes, there were times when I really felt vulnerable, abandonned and confused when I was pregnant. Good that it wasn't my first and I was in my late 30's. The "good" thing however, is that I was in control of what was going on. If HE had been the pregnant one, I think I would have panicked when he left. Same thing now somewhat. Baby's with me and his big sister, in a safe and peaceful environment.

I haven't gotten any contact from her, and I don't expect to.

Nothing at all?

Here, after a week of silence, I just received a message yesterday saying "Hi, I won't be coming visit this weekend"... .which I'd figured out as I knew his chauffeur dad was away on hols.

Not receiving any stressful messages allowed me to relax a little, but I can't help finding this silence very strange indeed and worrying.

I wonder if I'm not going to receive a letter for court order in the post tomorrow 

[Indyan]

- When you're facing the silent treatment (again, this is now a month, and I'm looking right now at just beginning the next stretch) how do you cope?

(She's shut out all of our common contacts, so unless she talks to the mediator, I have no idea what she's telling friends and family - likely just bad stuff about me)

We're at a point where VERY VERY VERY basic communication seems to be a no go.

I know it's hard.

I know what he tells everyone, that I'm the 2 headed monster that we have to kill - so to speak.

That poor him he can't see his baby anymore (because of me I suppose), etc.

All this victimisation makes me sick.

So here, as advised by the therapist we saw together (and saw us separately), I started talking about basic basic stuff when he came visiting last week-end.

It's hard for me because it feels unnatural and hypocritical. In these situations we must avoid mentioning anything related to emotional/relationship feelings.

There's a saying in my country that goes "In the house of a hangman, never mention rope"... .

What happens if you try to contact her, asking about how she is, pregnancy etc... .?

When I was pregnant and he was gone, I used to send little emails to keep him a bit updated. Is there a way you can still show you care?

[HopefulPapaOf2]

Indyan, Thanks for replying again.

Now I've gotten confirmation (besides just worrying)

She said in a very public way that I was a terrible human being and a horrible abuser (projection of what she's been doing the past 5 months or so)

How many times we wish: "Wouldn't it be nice if both people could just own their own behavior and reactions? We could really get somewhere!"

Ah, the non-BPD fantasy!

When I had tried to contact her previously, she tried to turn over my communication to a lawyer to get me in trouble.

That didn't work (as my messages were just kind and caring), but it definitely makes any communication with her scary.

So I can't show I care at the moment - That's a huge bummer, I'm very worried about her.

If she tries to make contact I'll have the mediator respond for me to avoid any legal issues.

If and when she's ready to discuss things without it being a manipulation to try to cause trouble for me, then I'll be right there to tell her that I care very much about what's going on.

This is her health, she's the mother of my baby, and he is my unborn son.

It takes a lot of self-convincing to "stay strong" in NC until she's ready (if ever).

In the meantime, I've got plenty of internal work to do, so in that particular way, it's for the best.

As for your baby being with you and big sister in a safe, peaceful environment, that's awesome!

I hope that the baby is always there with you, always in the safe nurturing environment.

As mom, especially right now, it sounds like there are lots of opportunities for you to enjoy your time just with him.