Justifying THIER OWN bad behaviors

[nightmoves]

Is it a byproduct of BPD - and/or have others experienced their pwBPD to radically come up with excuses why THEIR behaviors are ok?

In many cases ... .my BPDw will justify or give reasons why ANY and ALL of the things she has done which she DEPLORES in other people - are OK.

There are times, when she has done things, that I have tried to discuss calmly and logically - and she will simply make up any wildly implausible - or comically infantile - excuse to show that it was OK. IF I press the issue exposing her "excuses" to be ridiculous... .she will bolt from the conversation in anger.

Perhaps this is a strong by prodcut of BPD. But it is HIGHLY frustrating to be on the receiving end of so much anger, blame, labeling... .and have her doing things which CAUSE the conflict... .and then avoiding any responsibility for it.

OF EVEN - see it as wrong.

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[bruceli]

Mine has totally fabricated "behaviors" that I have that no one can see including, at the time, or T who she promptly got rid of, to justify her behaviors.  and yes, she uses this to rage, blame, accuse and justify her behaviors constantly.

[Moselle]

Hi Nightmoves,

I can identify with your frustration quite strongly, having spent 14 years in the heat of the BPD fire. It is very common if not typical so please know that you're in good company here!

It's important to remember that while they are in an emotional dysregulation, they are in effect having a delusional experience. The world becomes subjective and governed by the wild swings of their emotional turmoil.

Any kind of reasonable or rational discussion at that point is simply not possible with them. The healthiest thing to do, is to suddenly remember that you have an urgent appointment somewhere. LOL And get away.

I'm not sure of the intricate details of projection, but rather than face the shame of their own deplorable behaviour, BPD's in particular will project that onto someone else rather than face the inconvenient truth of their own imperfections. The fact that she deplores it in others, adds to, not minimises the shame she feels about herself, and it gets buried deeper in the denial.

It's not great news, but at least we know its not really about us. It's really about them and their problems. There really is a huge translation difference between what they say and what they mean. What has helped me tremendously is to try and translate what my BPD/NPD spouse says. ie. She says to me " I'm leaving you, why don't you go and find yourself a fluzie". A possible BPD translation. "I treat you so badly, why are you staying with me?"

[bruceli]

Hi Nightmoves,

I can identify with your frustration quite strongly, having spent 14 years in the heat of the BPD fire. It is very common if not typical so please know that you're in good company here!

It's important to remember that while they are in an emotional dysregulation, they are in effect having a delusional experience. The world becomes subjective and governed by the wild swings of their emotional turmoil.

Any kind of reasonable or rational discussion at that point is simply not possible with them. The healthiest thing to do, is to suddenly remember that you have an urgent appointment somewhere. LOL And get away.

I'm not sure of the intricate details of projection, but rather than face the shame of their own deplorable behaviour, BPD's in particular will project that onto someone else rather than face the inconvenient truth of their own imperfections. The fact that she deplores it in others, adds to, not minimises the shame she feels about herself, and it gets buried deeper in the denial.

It's not great news, but at least we know its not really about us. It's really about them and their problems. There really is a huge translation difference between what they say and what they mean. What has helped me tremendously is to try and translate what my BPD/NPD spouse says. ie. She says to me " I'm leaving you, why don't you go and find yourself a fluzie". A possible BPD translation. "I treat you so badly, why are you staying with me?"

Also well put.  My take on this is like I am playing the opposite game with a child.  I take what she says and think/translate it to the opposite.  Go means stay, hate means love, etc.

[maxsterling]

Definitely a common issue here.  I think it is part of a broader pattern of double standards.  My observation is that I think the pwBPD is aware the double-standard exists, and their dysregulation is when their brain tires to come up with reasons why the double standard doesn't really exist or is justifiable. 

Here is an example in my life from the past few days:  The stress of having Thanksgiving dinner guests led to a grouchy and extremely negative mood.  I was the scapegoat.  And her main frustration was that I was not "taking charge".  I want to have a 50/50 relationship, where gender roles are mostly nonexistent, and work is shared.  Yet she said she wished I would "take charge".  She's made comments like that before, wanting me to make more money so she doesn't have to work, wanting me to make all the decisions on things without her, and asking my opinion before every decision she makes (should I do this?).  Last night I was talking to my dad about fixing a space heater, and she asked what we were doing.  I told her, she made a face and a comment about us being dorky, and I replied "just a typical guy conversation." 

Well, she took offense to that comment... .?  Okay, baffling.  But then later as we were laying in bed, commented that my parents make her sad, and that my mom makes her angry.  I asked her to elaborate and she said that my mom spending her life as a housewife sets all women back and that it set my sister back and that my mom could have gotten an education and done something more with her life.  Okay.  Makes sense now!  Reality - she's not angry at my mom.  She's angry at herself for being like my mom, for being 100% dependent on me.  She is dysregulated because she can't find any logical reason that she is different than my mom in her dependence on men.  And she was upset at my earlier comment because gender stereotypes were on her mind.  So rather than face her own issue, she tried cutting down my mom to make her life seem different.  She's travelled the world, my mom hasn't.  She had many types of jobs, my mom hasn't.  She has a college degree, my mom hasn't.  She's had many relationships, my mom hasn't.  She even compared my mom to her stepmom (whom she hates) in that her step mom has advanced education and has owned property by herself and lived as a single mother. 

My analysis is that what the pwBPD is doing (and to some extent many of us nons do too) is get upset and dysregulated when they can't logically see how they are different than the person who they see as beneath them.  So the justifications are their way of differentiating themselves from others whom they think are bad.  The black/white thinking probably also comes into play here, because if they see someone as *all* bad, they then MUST come up for justification that they are not at all like that person, otherwise they paint themselves as all bad as well.  Us nons are more likely to see where we may be similar to others in some areas but not others. 

[Moselle]

My analysis is that what the pwBPD is doing (and to some extent many of us nons do too) is get upset and dysregulated when they can't logically see how they are different than the person who they see as beneath them.  So the justifications are their way of differentiating themselves from others whom they think are bad.  The black/white thinking probably also comes into play here, because if they see someone as *all* bad, they then MUST come up for justification that they are not at all like that person, otherwise they paint themselves as all bad as well.  Us nons are more likely to see where we may be similar to others in some areas but not others. 

Fascinating view of it. I had never seen it that way, but I think you're right. I seems to be a very simplistic way of working out where they fit in a social hierarchy. Accountability is not high on the value list. But I also recognise that as one of my  that I've picked up along the BPD highway.

Mine uses the mirror of public opinion to understand her self worth. This translates into an all out fight for status, and keeping up with the Jones's.

[Mie]

I've been thinking the same, and very interesting responses here.

Their behavior is always justified no matter how crazy, whereas I am 'out of control' as soon as I express any negative feelings. And if I do, I have to come up with an explanation immediately, otherwise he starts developing an argument.

My uBPD partner said the other day: That guy (ex employee) is bugging me, he is a liar and a thief, he's been stealing from me and you and that makes me so angry that I start drinking, and then I'm not nice anymore!

Oh how nice to know before hand, and totally makes sense 

[waverider]

Impulse and need overrides any logical thinking. They have difficulty stopping this from happening even if they are aware of it, or want to. The only way to cope with this is to tell themselves they are justified. Otherwise they are stuck in a no win situation and hating themselves even more. This leads to chronic depression.

Depression is a common side effect of starting to come to terms with owning the Disorder. They feel "I am a failure, and I can't change it, there is no future"

If they cant change things they need to defend what they do. It triggers fight or flight instinct.

[mssalty]

Is it odd that I have less of an issue with this behavior when the stakes are high (a big fight) than I do when it's something small.    For instance, let's say something silly happens and you laugh with your SO (you found your glasses on top of your head, that's so funny), and they turn on you and say "well remember that time when you found your wallet in your own pocket?   That wasn't too bright."   

It's the constant defense mechanism that both wears us out and makes us feel like we're going insane.   You start to believe you're always wrong and they're always right.   

[vortex of confusion]

It's the constant defense mechanism that both wears us out and makes us feel like we're going insane.   You start to believe you're always wrong and they're always right.   

The defensiveness is too much to handle at times. Mine has started to at least recognize his defensiveness but that doesn't really mean much because I haven't seen him make any effort to do anything about it.

My partner is very good at justifying his own bad behaviors. The other day, I was trying to talk to him about his excessive computer use. He turned it around and tried to say that I am always on the computer too. I had to turn it around on him and point out that I am the one that puts the kids to bed almost ever night, I am the one that usually cooks, cleans, does laundry, pays bills, etc. If I upset him, then it seems that he uses that as an excuse to do bad things too.

[waverider]

It's the constant defense mechanism that both wears us out and makes us feel like we're going insane.   You start to believe you're always wrong and they're always right.   

Its like a dripping tap