I think I was delusional not to see ASPD earlier on

[Tim300]

Original Poster,

I'm with you.  I think I was delusional not to see ASPD earlier on (in my BPD ex-fiancee).  It took our couple's counselor mentioning it to me for me to really wake up.  I think BPD is a little easier to swallow.  Being honest with myself, my ex seems to have undeniable ASPD traits, and so does her mother.  In any event, my ex's BPD traits to seem to override any ASPD traits, so she can't make it to the alter without going completely crazy and breaking up first -- I'm lucky for this I guess.

[fromheeltoheal]

First off, a personality disorder is a mental illness, and those of us with the ability to think rationally and "normally" can't ascribe that ability to someone who's mentally ill; they don't think like us.  Behavior that we would label as coming from an "ass" or a "jerk" in what we call reality may be completely justifiable behavior from within a disorder.  Ass is in the eye of the beholder.

And of course, the labels don't matter, the behaviors do.  We were volunteers to any abuse or disrespect we tolerated, and call it what you will, if the behavior is creating pain for us, we have the choice of removing the perpetrator from our lives, or not.  Of course someone who's craftly and deceptive, has been for a lifetime and perfected it, they're going to get away with a few things before we wise up, and then we get to make peace with the behavior for ourselves so we can move forward, and hopefully learned enough to never let it happen again.  But really, any sht she pulled set off the alarm bells of negative gut feel and flunked the smell test, yet forward I forged, my own damn fault in the end.  The most important lesson?  Pay attention, act accordingly.

[Rise]

Bottom line is that they are nasty people who use others for their personal gain and have no regard for what happens to the other person. Isn't that a sociopath?

There are plenty of perfect healthy people that use others for their personal gain, and do terrible things to them with little to no regard for others. Being a sociopath isn't necessary for you to be a bad person.

And whether you want to consider yourself a victim or not is a personal choice. I prefer not to, as I feel it implies that I had no power in my life. I walked into that situation willingly, stayed willingly, suffered through the bad times willingly, and then went back for more willingly. No one forced me. I chose it. But because I chose to go down that road with my ex, I also have the power to choose a different path for myself.

[blissful_camper]

They don't have any problem living their lives and continuing to leave a trail of emotionally battered relatives and significant others. Maybe if there were some consequences that were more severe it would give them incentive to change.

While they don't appear to have any problem living their lives and repeating unhealthy and destructive patterns, I think that many are chronically unhappy.  My ex who has strong ASPD traits is not a happy man. According to him, he has not experienced the feeling of being content, at peace, or truly happy.  I knew him for many years prior to becoming involved with him, and he just couldn't seem to find joy in life.  He's "paying" for who he is everyday.

I think that to want change, some may need to hit rock bottom in some way.  I view that r/s as my rock bottom.  It was traumatic and motivated me to look inward and grow so that I seek healthier partners.  My ex, sadly, may require a rock bottom that is more extreme in order to want change for himself.  

[Fluff]

Another name for BPD is Emotional Dysregulation Disorder. As I see it BPD is about emotions, ASPD is about empathy and NPD is about self-worth. A person can be dysfunctional in all these aspects and more, in different combinations and expressions.