I know i have no forgiveness in my heart an I am perfectly fine with that

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Many people here have cited how important it is to forgive your partner for what has happened

I know i have no forgiveness in my heart an I am perfectly fine with that

I do not hold any anger though but I do not have any compassion/tolerence etc etc for my Partners circumstances if she was hit by a bus i would not rejoice nor would i feel sorry except that it would be inconvienient for me on a number of levels.

I have seen other people saying feeling nothing about there ex is also the goal I cant forgive a lightning bolt for burning my house down nor can i feel sorry for it

I can be angry at myself for not putting a lightning rod up an after kicking my self an rectifying the situation forgive myself an get on with things

I am also aware that sometimes it is neccasary to empower oneself through anger an scince everyone is different holding onto the anger until things are put right ( which may be never ) might also be neccasary

there are lots of options I am happy with mine are you happy with yours?

[SlyQQ]

Many people here have cited how important it is to forgive your partner for what has happened

I know i have no forgiveness in my heart an I am perfectly fine with that

I do not hold any anger though but I do not have any compassion/tolerence etc etc for my Partners circumstances if she was hit by a bus i would not rejoice nor would i feel sorry except that it would be inconvienient for me on a number of levels.

I have seen other people saying feeling nothing about there ex is also the goal I cant forgive a lightning bolt for burning my house down nor can i feel sorry for it

I can be angry at myself for not putting a lightning rod up an after kicking my self an rectifying the situation forgive myself an get on with things

I am also aware that sometimes it is neccasary to empower oneself through anger an scince everyone is different holding onto the anger until things are put right ( which may be never ) might also be neccasary

there are lots of options I am happy with mine are you happy with yours?

[fromheeltoheal]

Here on the Leaving board the goal is detachment.  If part of detachment is forgiveness, then so be it, remembering forgiveness does not mean condoning the behavior nor sweeping the situation under the rug.  And also, we forgive because of the way it makes us feel; if it don't feel good, don't do it.  What is forgiveness?  What is detachment?

[Copperfox]

I think FHTH is right, the goal is detachment.  Whether that includes forgiveness or not might vary.

For me, it's all about being the bigger person.  I've learned alot from this experience.  But if I hold on to the anger forever, if I let it make me bitter or closed off emotionally, then BPD has won.

[ADecadeLost]

I can say that when I've thought of it at points, I felt that I could forgive her.  However, the more time that passes, I realize that it was my choice to stay with such a troubled person.  As a result, I now wonder if I even have anything that I need to forgive her for.  If something in me allowed me to stay, that's on me not her.  She was only able to do what she did/treat me the way she did, because I chose to stay.

And honestly, I've told her as much.  During our LC, she has apologized for her actions numerous times (however meaningful those apologies may be).  Initially, my response was along the lines of "stuff happens.  Just worry about taking care of yourself."  Lately, however, my response has simply been "It was my choice to stay through it.  That part's on me, not you."

[Perfidy]

Forgiveness requires blame. Who is to blame? Is forgiveness a shallow idea? Might there be a deeper understanding? Can you empty your self of all thought and arrive at reality? Can you cleanse your self of desire and attachment so that oneness is everything?

[raisins3142]

I think it depends upon how you define forgiveness.

The way I define it, and the way dictionaries usually do, is such that I do not need to forgive someone in order to detach and move on.

This is really just a definition thing, in my eyes.

People talk about "forgiving" the man that killed a family member.  Nope, I couldn't do that.  I could move on, but I could never actually "forgive".

To expand the definition of "forgiveness" too much, in my eyes, denigrates the importance and significance of that concept.

[letmeout]

This is an interesting topic.

I refuse to break NC, so our children think that I haven't forgiven their father for being an abuser with mental issues.

Truthfully, after 3 years of not having to deal with, see him, or hear his voice I feel happier and safer, and that is all that matters. 

Do I need to forgive him for being abusive and crazy?

I think that's a moot point because time heals.

[Tibbles]

Forgiveness is about being able to think of that person with a sense of peace. That's what I want. I will always think about my ex. He was such a large part of my life. Together 30 yrs. I hope I think about him less and less till maybe once at Christmas or our wedding anniversary, birthday an occasion like that. When I get to that stage I hope to feel a sense of peace rather than a sense of loss/anger/hurt etc. Is that the same as detachment - I don't know - but that is the place I want to end up in. To get there I need to forgive so I can find peace and acceptance for the way things turned out.

[Rise]

there are lots of options I am happy with mine are you happy with yours?

Yes I am. Carrying all that around, the anger, the pain, the resentment I had towards my ex was just too much. I also chose to forgive my ex because I've not always been such a good person myself. I've done things that I know hurt other people tremendously, and I hope that those people can someday forgive me.

[Infared]

I don't know if we should or we shouldn't ... .I am just unable to. She was just so dishonest, cruel and smug.   She made plans and went out of her way to hurt me emotionally and she was enjoying herself in doing these things. There was absolutely no consideration of my feelings. It was just like a fun thing that she could do to have a good time and entertain herself and control others in that moment. I was totally bewildered and deceived.

I don't think that I can forgive her.

I work on accepting her for who she actually is... .certainly not the person that she told me she was.

I can't comprehend the word forgiveness. The abrupt abandonment and betrayal was just too great.

I stand in awe of those who have that capability.

[PaintedBlack28]

My personal opinion is that at least in my case, I was manipulated and taken advantage of on behalf of a disordered person.

I don't have or feel any personal grudges against her, as this was not done as a plan to harm/hurt me on purpose.

I was aware that she had the disorder from the beginning though I admit I wasn't familiar with all the particularities of it.

I am personally grateful to have had the opportunity to learn more about myself (though painfully), and what would be the reasons that made me choose a disordered person as a romantic partner to share my life with.

[Recooperating]

I think the only person I need to forgive is ME! Forgiveness is a big word. How do you forgive without an apology? I dont think I need to forgive my ex, I need to let him go and feel indifferent about him. Forgiveness to me is saying "its okay". Forgiveness is when somebody did something wrong, works on improving it so it wont happen again. It was not ok, it will never change, he's not sorry... .I dont think I need to "forgive", what I need is to accept it happened, I had my part and responsibility in it and I will make sure it wont happen again, so I can forgive myself. My ex? I want nothing to do with him, I dont like him, so screw him. Not my problem anymore!

[drummerboy]

I think forgiveness only applies to people that are still in your life. My ex has no role in my life now so she has become irrelevant, I just feel total indifference towards her. I pity her life but I don't know that I have to forgive her. I know her life is harder than most because of her condition so I do feel empathy for her. All of us, pwBPD and nons, do things that seem right to us at the time, we all make mistakes but that's life, life goes on.

[FlyingAway]

Forgiveness to me is saying "its okay". Forgiveness is when somebody did something wrong, works on improving it so it wont happen again.

I think this is absolutely right, Recooperating. I don't want or need to spend my emotional energy on forgiveness for someone else. This is not even my right. All I can do is to focus on my own personal healing. While I can't forget the pain this relationship caused, my responses (suffering, grasping, bargaining--all fear-based) were within MYSELF. The best way forward is to focus on healing the source of those painful reactions. So it won't ever happen again, and so that I can be fully free to be the good person I am.

[fromheeltoheal]

Here's a quote I like:

“Forgiveness is not the misguided act of condoning irresponsible, hurtful behavior. Nor is it a superficial turning of the other cheek that leaves us feeling victimized and martyred. Rather it is the finishing of old business that allows us to experience the present, free of contamination from the past.”

[Deeno02]

I sort of forgive me for be a willing player in this. For her? I suffer from indifference. Indifference to her life, her chaos, her choices, her being. I really dont care what she does or what happens. It still rears its head every now and again, but shes not my problem anymore.

[raisins3142]

Here's a quote I like:

“Forgiveness is not the misguided act of condoning irresponsible, hurtful behavior. Nor is it a superficial turning of the other cheek that leaves us feeling victimized and martyred. Rather it is the finishing of old business that allows us to experience the present, free of contamination from the past.”

Sounds nice, but is just re-defining a word.

It is more economic to simply state the desired emotional state and that it allows you to leave that hurt behind.

[fromheeltoheal]

Here's a quote I like:

“Forgiveness is not the misguided act of condoning irresponsible, hurtful behavior. Nor is it a superficial turning of the other cheek that leaves us feeling victimized and martyred. Rather it is the finishing of old business that allows us to experience the present, free of contamination from the past.”

Sounds nice, but is just re-defining a word.

It is more economic to simply state the desired emotional state and that it allows you to leave that hurt behind.

Yes, and 'forgiveness' is a word with a bunch of definitions, a lot of them common and held as truth but ultimately disempowering.  And there's a lot of focus on the definition but not much focus on how to actually forgive.  A desired emotional state is the goal, and the frame I like that takes me there is the act of letting go of what we think someone owes us.  Letting go is an action, and it makes me feel lighter and freer when I go there, whether we label that forgiveness or not.

[Infared]

Here's a quote I like:

“Forgiveness is not the misguided act of condoning irresponsible, hurtful behavior. Nor is it a superficial turning of the other cheek that leaves us feeling victimized and martyred. Rather it is the finishing of old business that allows us to experience the present, free of contamination from the past.”

Sounds nice, but is just re-defining a word.

It is more economic to simply state the desired emotional state and that it allows you to leave that hurt behind.

Yes, and 'forgiveness' is a word with a bunch of definitions, a lot of them common and held as truth but ultimately disempowering.  And there's a lot of focus on the definition but not much focus on how to actually forgive.  A desired emotional state is the goal, and the frame I like that takes me there is the act of letting go of what we think someone owes us.  Letting go is an action, and it makes me feel lighter and freer when I go there, whether we label that forgiveness or not.

Now THAT is helpful.

[Mr Hollande]

During the 5 years with her I forgave so much. I am not a very forgiving person otherwise but her I could forgive almost anything. One of my many mistakes was telling her that. I believe now that she took advantage of it and when she had pushed everything beyond any reasonable level and I still had forgiveness for her she finally stuck the blade in when she gleefully told me she'd gone back to the replacement. It was the worst thing she could do to me. She knew it and she did it without skipping a beat. So that was that. She got her wish in the end. It ended with me hating her guts.

I understand it went this far because of my poor ability to maintain boundaries but it still makes her actions despicable. I really struggle with the idea of forgiving her after that. To me the definition of the word forgiveness is not letting go. It means allowing the same thing to be done to me again because "oh it's OK, I forgive you". Letting go is something else. Letting go would be finding a pit where the toxic waste of her can be dumped and covered up never to be found or heard of again. I'm still searching for that pit.

[clydegriffith]

I completley agree with OP. I will never forgive and wish nothing but the worse on her. I was put through hell and back and no amount of suffering on her part will ever equal the horrible things she did to me but i can sure hope it gets close.

[charred]

When people do you wrong, you don't have to turn the other cheek, and say it is all right, when it was an injustice.

Once you have wallowed in the mud about it adequately, get up, dust yourself off and let it go.

Businesses write off bad debt, its the same kind of thing. You know better than to extend credit for being a "good person" to them again... .but your life doesn't need to be on hold endlessly while you wait for a person of low character to change for your sake.

[Mutt]

there are lots of options I am happy with mine are you happy with yours?

Yes I am. Carrying all that around, the anger, the pain, the resentment I had towards my ex was just too much. I also chose to forgive my ex because I've not always been such a good person myself. I've done things that I know hurt other people tremendously, and I hope that those people can someday forgive me.

Here's a quote I like:

“Forgiveness is not the misguided act of condoning irresponsible, hurtful behavior. Nor is it a superficial turning of the other cheek that leaves us feeling victimized and martyred. Rather it is the finishing of old business that allows us to experience the present, free of contamination from the past.”

I forgave my ex.

I chose to forgive to let go of the contamination from the past.

We have kids and she's a part of my life.

[Mr.Downtrodden]

I have the capacity to forgive if someone makes a mistake.

My uBPD ex GF  first apologized for hooking up with her ex bf.  She continued to do things over tine which she hid from me until she was exposed.  I forgave. Again. Then, she did something which made it impossible to forgive or forget.

Forgiveness of mistakes is one thing.

To forgive someone whose behavior continues, despite promises to improve and get better?  Who will not address their problems?

No.

[SlyQQ]

Someone has suggested that i should perhaps illucidate on why i particularly cant forgive my ex for what happened. Basically forgiveness is a healing tool everyone has heard " forgive an forget " where effectively forgetting is the best way to heal yourself ( time heals all wounds is perhaps a variation of this) My own particular circumctances have placed me where my healing has taken a different path in that i have soght to right some of the wrongs that have been done this is what i feel is best for me and for this neither anger or forgiveness works but a middle ground, as i said at the start everyone has to find a path that works for them this was mine 

[Infared]

Someone has suggested  that i should perhaps illucidate on

why i particularly cant forgive my ex for what

happened. Basically forgiveness is a healing tool

everyone has heard " forgive an forget "

where effectively forgetting is the best way

to heal yourself ( time heals all wounds is perhaps

a variation of this)  My own particular circumctances

have placed me where my healing has taken a different

path in that i have soght to right some of the wrongs that have been

done this is what i feel is best for me and for this neither anger

or forgiveness works but a middle ground, as i said

at the start everyone has to find a path that works for them this was mine

Yes... .acceptance may be what you are working on.  Acceptance of that person for who they actually are... not who we were lead to believe they were ... .and as others have mentioned above, as I went on this journey I had to also recognize, accept and forgive myself for inviting this damaged person into my life and giving too much trust and love to the point of it damaging me. I have to forgive myself for not setting boundaries that loved me.

[Deeno02]

Forgiveness is for you,not them. I forgive myself.

[slimmiller]

My ex could fall off of a cliff and I would probably shrug.

Do I hate her? No not really because that would imply that she is worth hating. Shes not.

She is sick yes, but still... .

She is now being her true self. For 13 years she pretended to be good. Now she is real.

Forgiving her would also mean that we had a real relationship. I do not view it as having been truly real. She was acting the whole time and when she could not act anymore she painted me bad and got a replacement because that was easier then being real for her. She cant be real.

They say to forgive 7 times 70. I did that. A thousand times over. I will reserve my forgiving for someone deserving. Forgiving requires something from us. Forgiving is a self effacing act the soul can only do so many times then you become internally banckrupt and there is no more left. Then you have to stop for the sake of self preservation.

NC is great for those that have that luxury. I fathered 3 kids with mine and we 'co-parent' or more precisely I raise 3 children with an angry teenager with the mental and emotional state of a 3 year old running interference

Forgivness also tells the very internal part of my being in some form that its ok to allow myself to be treated that bad. Its not ok so I stay indefferent/angry because that also protects me

Maintaining some degree of anger also helps the soul to know that you are valuable enough to be angry about injustices

[Kwamina]

Yes... .acceptance may be what you are working on.  Acceptance of that person for who they actually are... not who we were lead to believe they were ... .and as others have mentioned above, as I went on this journey I had to also recognize, accept and forgive myself for inviting this damaged person into my life and giving too much trust and love to the point of it damaging me. I have to forgive myself for not setting boundaries that loved me.

Yes Infared, I think you raise a very good point here. When it comes to the people with BPD in our life, accepting the harsh reality of who they really are is crucial to be able to move forward with our lives. For that reason it might be good to consider the concept of 'radical acceptance' developed by Marsha Linehan, PhD:

There are three parts to radical acceptance. The first part is accepting that reality is what it is.  The second part is accepting that the event or situation causing you pain has a cause.  The third part is accepting life can be worth living even with painful events in it.

... .

Reality acceptance skills are the skills that you need when really painful events happen in your life. And you can't change the painful event.  You can't solve it. You can't make it go away. And, you can't turn it into a positive.  It's a negative that just won't become a positive.  And you're miserable.

When that happens, practice reality acceptance.

... .

This is not one of those things you're going to get perfect at.  There's not going to be a day when you can say, 'Alright, I've got it; I've got it.  I can radically accept. I turn the mind all the time and I'm willing.'  That day is not going to come.

This is the only set of skills that I teach that I would have to say just about everybody has to practice just about every day of their lives.

The way to practice these skills at the beginning when they're really hard is to find small things to practice them on first.  If you start trying to practice on the really big things, you're not going to be able to do it.   So find something small. Practice on that.

... .

If you keep practicing these skills, they do get easier. It's really the truth - they do. You'll get better at it. Life will get easier.

I think that accepting and believing that life can still be worth living, even with painful events in it, relates to what you say SlyQQ about how your healing has taken a different path and how you have sought to right some of the wrongs that have been done. Could you tell us some more about how you've been able to right some of the wrongs?