Update and suggestions please

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hello I wanted to get everyone an update and ask for some suggestions.

I am now living with my in-laws again  :'(  My wife has taken her (dream job). Turns out is not so dreamy. Wow imagine that. Never would have seen that coming.    So we were talking the other day about her dad. Some of the things she describes how her dad treats her mom is spot on exactly the same as she treats me. Her dad won't let her mom have a job even par time because he doesn't have control of the situation. He calls and texts her all day long. He even calls her from the time he leaves for work until he gets there which is about 45 minutes. And the list goes on.  She can see all that but not that is the same thing she is doing? 

So my questions. I am going to see new counselor. My wife wants me to focus on my lying and how horrible I treat her and never fallow through with my words. Example: I made a comment about being intimate later in the day on the weekend. Kind of off the cuff kind of playful comment. Well several hours later we are both tired and going to be and I am a liar because I didn't follow through. That kind of thing. I want o focus on the situation I'm in with her and my life of drive 1 hour 40 minutes to work to support her in her (dream) job.  Plus all the name calling.  How can I do both? Should I do both? Am I lying again because I said I would discuss with the counselor the things she has asked me to?

[Cipher13]

Hello I wanted to get everyone an update and ask for some suggestions.

I am now living with my in-laws again  :'(  My wife has taken her (dream job). Turns out is not so dreamy. Wow imagine that. Never would have seen that coming.    So we were talking the other day about her dad. Some of the things she describes how her dad treats her mom is spot on exactly the same as she treats me. Her dad won't let her mom have a job even par time because he doesn't have control of the situation. He calls and texts her all day long. He even calls her from the time he leaves for work until he gets there which is about 45 minutes. And the list goes on.  She can see all that but not that is the same thing she is doing? 

So my questions. I am going to see new counselor. My wife wants me to focus on my lying and how horrible I treat her and never fallow through with my words. Example: I made a comment about being intimate later in the day on the weekend. Kind of off the cuff kind of playful comment. Well several hours later we are both tired and going to be and I am a liar because I didn't follow through. That kind of thing. I want o focus on the situation I'm in with her and my life of drive 1 hour 40 minutes to work to support her in her (dream) job.  Plus all the name calling.  How can I do both? Should I do both? Am I lying again because I said I would discuss with the counselor the things she has asked me to?

[Mike-X]

Hello I wanted to get everyone an update and ask for some suggestions.

I am now living with my in-laws again  :'(  My wife has taken her (dream job). Turns out is not so dreamy. Wow imagine that. Never would have seen that coming.    So we were talking the other day about her dad. Some of the things she describes how her dad treats her mom is spot on exactly the same as she treats me. Her dad won't let her mom have a job even par time because he doesn't have control of the situation. He calls and texts her all day long. He even calls her from the time he leaves for work until he gets there which is about 45 minutes. And the list goes on.  She can see all that but not that is the same thing she is doing? 

So my questions. I am going to see new counselor. My wife wants me to focus on my lying and how horrible I treat her and never fallow through with my words. Example: I made a comment about being intimate later in the day on the weekend. Kind of off the cuff kind of playful comment. Well several hours later we are both tired and going to be and I am a liar because I didn't follow through. That kind of thing. I want o focus on the situation I'm in with her and my life of drive 1 hour 40 minutes to work to support her in her (dream) job.  Plus all the name calling.  How can I do both? Should I do both? Am I lying again because I said I would discuss with the counselor the things she has asked me to?

I really appreciate your post. Have you seen her interact with her dad and mom, i.e., have you seen evidence of their contributions to her disorder (i.e., invalidation, emotional manipulation/blackmail/threats, etc.)? Do her parents seem to be aware of their dysfunctional exchanges? I suspect that my udxGF put up with a lot of that throughout her life, including abandonment due to divorce.

As for your questions, why are you going to therapy?

[Waddams]

So my questions. I am going to see new counselor. My wife wants me to focus on my lying and how horrible I treat her and never fallow through with my words.

Is it your counseling or hers?  I've had SO's try to tell me what I need to do in counseling and I've always told 'em the same thing... .butt out.

I want o focus on the situation I'm in with her and my life of drive 1 hour 40 minutes to work to support her in her (dream) job.  Plus all the name calling.

Then focus on that. 

Am I lying again because I said I would discuss with the counselor the things she has asked me to?

You are literally letting her think for you.  You already know the answer to this question.  You also already know whether you are lying to her or not when you flirt then get tired and worn out and don't follow through later on being intimate.  However, you're listening to her more than yourself and you're allowing yourself to be FOG'd into confusion and manipulation.  Believe me, I understand and I don't say this in negative judgement of you.  I've been there and had to extract my head from the FOG myself on multiple occasions.  I know what I'm saying is very hard.

I know we try not to tell people what to do directly on these boards but at the same time we're also here for advice so think of this as a suggestion or advice.  Explain to the counselor exactly what's going on, give the T the same example you gave us.  In fact do it verbatim as you wrote it here.  Tell the same story, ask the same questions, and see how the counselor responds.

Cipher, you're in the situation you're in because you won't set and hold any boundaries with her.  It's that simple.  The situation won't change until you make a change and start holding boundaries. 

You knew what would happen if she changed jobs and you went along with all this.  You went along anyway.  You're life stays exactly as it is with all the chaos and misery as long as you keep operating this way.

[Cipher13]

Have you seen her interact with her dad and mom, i.e., have you seen evidence of their contributions to her disorder (i.e., invalidation, emotional manipulation/blackmail/threats, etc.)? Do her parents seem to be aware of their dysfunctional exchanges?

Yes I have seen the interaction. They do what I do and basically give in to her in one way or another. Her Dad doesn't usually so much.

As for your questions, why are you going to therapy?

For me. Because I feel I lack the actions to stand up for my slef and create boundries. Actually to up and leave to.

I just don't stand up to her when I should and when I need to. I fold to practiaclly everything.

[Mike-X]

Have you seen her interact with her dad and mom, i.e., have you seen evidence of their contributions to her disorder (i.e., invalidation, emotional manipulation/blackmail/threats, etc.)? Do her parents seem to be aware of their dysfunctional exchanges?

Yes I have seen the interaction. They do what I do and basically give in to her in one way or another. Her Dad doesn't usually so much.

As for your questions, why are you going to therapy?

For me. Because I feel I lack the actions to stand up for my slef and create boundries. Actually to up and leave to.

I just don't stand up to her when I should and when I need to. I fold to practiaclly everything.

Is her dad invalidating toward her?

I think that you should go to therapy to work on the things that are important to you, learning to stand up for yourself and creating boundaries. How do you feel about her making suggestions regarding things that you should work on?

[Cipher13]

How do you feel about her making suggestions regarding things that you should work on?

It sucks. Her feelings equal reality to her. If she thinks that a joking comment that is obvioulsy silly and over the top in joking manner doesn mean I am being mean or a jerk. Not hearing the phone ring and answering in seconds doesn't mean I am ignoring on purpose. Becasue I took the dog for a walk and it took 5 minutes longer than she assumed it would take doesn't mean I am having an affair with god nows who ever I happen to come across in my walk.

He exact words to me about the phone. "We talked about this. When I call you drop what ever it is you are doing and respond imediately."

[Grey Kitty]

Dude.

This is your therapy. It is for you.

The next time your wife says what you should talk about in counseling, try this: "It is my counseling session. If there are issues that you want a counselor to hear, you can get your own counselor."

You could agree with what she says you should talk about in advance to end the conversation.

Then REFUSE to discuss what is actually said with her after the fact. Tell her that the therapist told you not to. (Ask the therapist to tell you not to discuss your therapy with your wife when you talk to the therapist   )

Heck, just joke and say "We didn't actually say anything. We were having sex the whole time I was there." OK, that one is a really really really really bad idea.

[Waddams]

Okay, i have to translate -this:

"We talked about this. When I call you drop what ever it is you are doing and respond imediately."

is really:

I demand you drop whatever is happening to always be instantly available no matter what problems or inconveniences and regardless of whether it is even possible or not, and if you don't I will make you pay.

I'm sure the "we talked about this" part happened when she was on a roll and it wasn't really a two way discussion and agreement.  

So question for you Cipher - when she is making these very unreasonable demands and then later honestly punishing you for not meeting said impossible to meet demands - how do you react?  I ask because at times I know I'm like a deer in headlights.  The verbal assault is just bewildering sometimes and I have no idea what to say or how to react.  At least I have no idea what kind of productive reactions I could do or say to lead to any kind of mutually agreeable, mature adult, grown up, grounded in reality type solution that is respectful of both parties.  And the reason for that is because there is no reasonable resolution because I'm not dealing with a reasonable adult.  I'm dealing with an overgrown child having temper tantrum.

What I've found is I had to work out in advance how I would start reacting to such occurrences, and rehearse it.  I had to realize during such moments, I had to stop trying to be reasonable with her and I had to start protecting myself.  I had to realize I wasn't going to have a two way, give and take discussion and workout a reasonable compromise or solution to an issue with her.  She wasn't trying to work out reasonable.  She was trying to control and dominate and punish.

I had to have a battle plan ready to enact ahead of time.  Once I started having a preset determination, I could follow my game plan.  And it generally degenerated into telling her "NO" I won't do that and holding my ground as she dysregulates.  And separating myself from her when I needed to based on her getting too out of control.

Then final time it happened, she decided she'd rather end things instead of grow up.  She'd rather end things and walk away because I'm now so "disrespectful" that I won't allow her to honestly abuse me.  I told her don't the door hit her in a$$ on the way out, nothings keeping her here.

In your case, though, you have the option to remove yourself so she can't keep abusing you.  All you have to do is summon the courage to walk out.  Take it in steps.  :)on't answer the phone if you are busy or just don't want to talk.  Ignore the barrage of calls of texts.  Or even respond at some point that there will be no response until she calms down.  Which we know will only enflame her further.

I've done it before where I just dind't go home.  I stayed at a friends, and have gotten hotels before and just ignored the phone meltdown until she eventually passed out from being exhausted in her mania.

Get yourself an escape bag prepared that has everything you need for a night in a hotel and getting to work the next day without going home.  And when you need to, leave.  :)on't engage, just tell her "No" you won't do or agree to or with whatever crazy thing she is accusing you of, tell her she's wrong and to stop treating you like this.  When she loses it, you walk out right then.  You don't speak, you don't do anything except leave.  

I know you've said she's blocked you from leaving before.  I used to even make sure I had my keys, phone, and wallet in my pocket when I knew there was an incident coming, that way she couldn't block my access to them.  If she blocks the front door, go out the back.  If she blocks the driveway, drive over the grass.  Or better yet, park on the street in advance, or somewhere that there are multiple ways to drive off.

and when your done, and you've gotten away, think about everything you had to do to prepare to get away and protect yourself, all the pre-planning, and ask yourself if you should have to do that in your marriage?  in the aftermath, how crazy and messed up is it the extents you just had to go to in order to not be abused?  and then ask yourself how much more craziness you want in your life and what do you need to do bring some peace to yourself?

[Cipher13]

Waddams

I always appriciate your advice and background and how it relates to my situation. When I read this stuff all over again. I mean really read it over and think about it. Wow! Look at all the things I have to do in order to just leave an angry volitile situation in my own house! Not to mentions how much work it is ot just prepare for a converstion about why I didn't answer the phone fast enough. Are you really kidding me? This is my life? This is what I have to do? And thats not just to get along in a normal adult way.  Thank you for allowing me to see even clearer what my own eyes were seeing but still looking past.

To responfto the comment about deer in the headlights after a verbal barage of explatives. My typical response is to apologize for my behavior becasue nothign else comes to my mind. I am not aperson that can return the explative vulgarity back on her. I have never cursed her out are called her any sort of names.

[Wrongturn1]

Cipher: Waddams' post contains some excellent advice - I suggest doing everything Waddams says there. 

The worst that could happen is she leaves you... .although that might actually be the best that could happen - so you can't lose unless you keep doing the same things you have been doing that resulted in misery for you.

[GaGrl]

cipher, as I've followed your journey, I am beginning to hear a very real difference in the tone of your postings.

For quite a while, you would express frustation but then spin around and around and around, continuing to attempt to please her (believe me here, my friend) completely unreasonable and unrealistic demands.  You were really trapped within the FOG, and she was calling 99.9% of the shots in your relationship.

Then you began moving toward the possibility of separating, and (as you admit) this last job change of hers actually provided an opportunity of sorts to put her in a living situation in which she would have support should you leave.

Now you sound as if the "Wow, just wow" factor is setting in, and you are really absorbing the fact that her behavior is controlling, unreasonable, illogical, emotionally and verbally abusive.  (Not that many, many people haven't been telling you that very fact for a long time, but for some reason, you are now in a place to hear it and own it.)

I'm also starting to detect a bit of a tone of anger.  Is that true?  Because it's not a bad thing... .a good dose of anger might be what you need to make some decisions.

Where do you think you are right now?