When the BPDer is the rescuer with the replacement...

[Mutt]

I've read that a good part of why a BPDer parades a new relationship around so early is to get the validation from others, and act like everything is right in the world - to have that approval.

I think you're partially right. I think it's less so validation for her highly dysfuntional behaviors and more so her false self that people may find charming. She wears masks that supresses her authentic self, it may look credible and it's a facade. To find her authentic self she would have to identify her trauma from around 16 - 24 months. BPD is also believed to be a prenatal injury, genetics or social environment. She fears the world and needs someone to take care of her, take responsibility for her negative feelings; make the world a less scary place and someone to emotionally merge with.

In a drama triangle a pwBPD will move through all of the roles, the role that they are usually cast in is victim. She may rescue although a caretaker type person is cast in the role of rescuer; a narcissistic is in the persecutor role and may move to rescuer and all of the players in these roles usually shift from frustration, if one sustains the persecutor role the pwBPD will emotionally collapse.

[Invictus01]

It has been my experience that Recieving closure from a pwBPD is not something the pwBPD can really provide.  It is more of a choice, choosing to recognize that wanting or the feeling of needing validation from the pwBPD is the dysfuntinal pattern its self.  Once that is recognized as those compulsive uges arise is a huge step. The trick is that we falsely believe we are being defeated by this other person so we hold on in hopes of a situation playing out that satisfies our egos desire to not concede to the object that we once felt was within our control.  The reality is it is the dysfunctional pattern itself that has defeated us and untill we surrender to it we will cling to our mirror object that allowed us to feel whole.

I think if the non never dealt with a PD person before and doesn't know what he or she is looking at, it is perfectly normal trying to make sense out of everything and try or at least think about getting a closure from the PD ex. Your mind is basically trying to make sense out of senseless without knowing it. However, if you put two and two together, educated yourself on what you dealt with, know what to expect (and what not to expect) from a PD person and you STILL expect a closure from a PD ex... .you are on your own.

Personally, I got my closure about a month and a half ago when I broke NC and exchanged two texts with my ex. I was 99% certain what I was dealing with but on the off chance I was wrong, I decided to send her a text. Her response was so cold, so about herself, so disrespectful of my boundaries (I told her I wasn't gonna be her friend in my text and she STILL pushed for it in her response), that 1% chance that I was wrong disappeared. Then and there I knew I had no choice but to walk because in the process of educating myself I pretty much saw that it is impossible to have a relationship with a PD person. She gave me closure with that response, she just doesn't know it.

[4Years5Months]

Invictus, I'm glad you got closure, even from such a negative exchange.  If I were to break NC and text my ex right now and say I didn't want to be her friend, I GUARANTEE you she would say something along the lines of "if that's what you want."  There would be no begging on her end.  Other than the aforementioned time last October, she never fought for our relationship.  I would be at the end of my rope and say I was ready to walk away, and she was almost be indifferent... ."It's going to be the hardest thing ever not having you in my life, but I understand if that's what you want."  She couldn't become vulnerable and ask for that.  She would rather let me go.  It's like she believes it's inevitable anyway, so why bother?

Mutt (or anyone else), based upon what you have read from me about the current relationship between my ex and her recently separated-but-not-divorced replacement for me, what roles are they playing?  What dynamic is at play?  My ex thrives on being the victim.  Has she somehow taken such a damaged guy and convinced him that he is saving HER?  That's quite the impressive feat if she has.

[Blimblam]

Rescuer/victim. The exs as persecuter/ victim. 

Their relationship has nothing to do with you though it has to do for your ex her own internal underlying script that governs her behaviors whether she is aware of it or not. 

Does it feel personal?

[Invictus01]

Invictus, I'm glad you got closure, even from such a negative exchange.  If I were to break NC and text my ex right now and say I didn't want to be her friend, I GUARANTEE you she would say something along the lines of "if that's what you want."  There would be no begging on her end.  Other than the aforementioned time last October, she never fought for our relationship.  I would be at the end of my rope and say I was ready to walk away, and she was almost be indifferent... ."It's going to be the hardest thing ever not having you in my life, but I understand if that's what you want."  She couldn't become vulnerable and ask for that.  She would rather let me go.  It's like she believes it's inevitable anyway, so why bother?

Here is the exchange we had 3 months after she out of nowhere declared me to her "good friend" and disappeared.

Me  - "3 months later I am still trying to make sense out of everything. What I know is this  - I love you. There appears to be an insane disconnect between how we feel about each other and I need to get over it. No worries, I will. But until that happens, I can not and will not be your friend. I just can't do this to myself."

Her - "I wish I felt the same about you but as of right now, I don't. I absolutely like to have your friendship, but I completely understand if it is all or nothing for you"

I've had to break women's hearts a few times and I felt soo freakin' bad about it, I'd say "I'm sorry" about every other sentence. Here... .nothing. Me me me, a little bit more of me and, by the way, I'll put it on you for not willing to maintain friendship, it is aaaalllllll you. I read it, and I knew I was done. I miss her, I still think about her all the time. But I'm done.

[fromheeltoheal]

She gave me closure with that response, she just doesn't know it.

Yeah but you do Invictus, obviously, and at least you got it, and great way to look at it.

4years: What dynamic is at play?  My ex thrives on being the victim.  Has she somehow taken such a damaged guy and convinced him that he is saving HER?  That's quite the impressive feat if she has.

Standard borderline is about attachment.  We've all seen and experienced the ability of a borderline to mirror someone, done to affect and attachment yes, but also to subsume the good they see in someone as their own, that completing of their self that is unstable and not fully formed.  You might have experienced your ex morphing into a different person depending on who she was with at the time, be it an SO, a friend, a parent, a child; we all do that to some extent, but with borderlines it's extreme, that unstable sense of self again, so be who you need to be in a given situation, my ex did that on the fly all the time.  I used to tell her it met my needs for variety, since I got a new girlfriend in every situation.  That's when we were joking about it anyway; the joke ended when I discovered there was no 'her' under the facade, or at least what was there was very, very miserable.

Anyway, point is, we have no way of knowing what your ex is up to with this guy, beyond knowing she needs to attach, so she's who she needs to be, and if you were a fly on the wall watching them together, you may not recognize her.

[4Years5Months]

For her to say, even if it was a joke, that hey boyfriend calls her via whistle and she "gallops" to him every single time... .goes against every assertive, feminist, equal rights, MATURE thing she said and did as my girlfriend.  I made her feel empowered, because I found her to be amazing and told her so.  I read that yesterday and felt anger that she would say that about herself, that she would even joke about doing that.  Then, I felt immensely sorry for her.  That is why I said it is helping me detach.  If THAT is who she is now, then I know she isn't better off.  I know this replacement isn't as good as me.  It's 5% ego, 95% truth, because my ex spent months telling me specific things about him that had nothing to do with making ME feel better.  She would just volunteer that information because he annoyed her so much.  Now, he whistles and she runs to him.  What low self worth she has.

Blimblam, I guess it's personal for me, because she has chosen to be treated that way, instead of being with me.  SHE has made that choice.  Sure, we fought, sure I called her out, sure I have a daughter that takes up some of my time, but I would never use her like this guy is doing.  She's probably doing such a good job of mirroring him that he's in love, a month after his wife dumped him.  But he's in love for the wrong reasons. He's in love with her because of what she can give him.  And I think she's in love (if it has gotten to that point for her) because of what he can give her - trips to restaurants, shows, etc.  Do either of them love each other for who they are?  I don't think so.  It's incredible what she has chosen to do with herself.  I guess I should have expected it given how low she spoke of herself.

FHTH, my ex never turned into a completely different person, but she could put herself in situations with ease.  She would be afraid to sing in front of me, but go out with work friends to karaoke and tell me stories of singing at the top of her lungs to the entire bar.  I wasn't allowed to ever go with her, of course.  Lately, she attached herself to co-workers who she couldn't stand, but jumped right in when they invited her out.  She, a big art film snob, went to go see "Fifty Shades of Grey" with party girls from work, and hated it.  But she still went, because she was asked.  She could have just gotten dinner and drinks with her, but she went.  That was another thing - she could never just do PART of the plan.  She would stay out until the end of the night, even if it was 6am.  We had a big fight when she got home at 7am one morning, after leaving at 4pm the night before.  She wasn't returning my calls and texts - I honestly thought something had happened to her because she said when she left that she didn't really want to be out late... .then she called me as she was walking up the steps... ."I just looked at my phone, sorry!"

God, it really was like being her father, as my therapist said.  She's like a teenager, or a 5-year-old if she has BPD.  Remember in high school when you had that friend who would do whatever it took to be in the "popular" group?  That's my ex.  And she's doing it right now to fit in with my replacement.  She will lower herself THAT far, just to be accepted.  My close friends speak of it as her having inexperience with dating.  Funny thing is, her mom does the exact same thing, and she's 43 and twice divorced.  It has nothing to do with the amount experience.

Invictus, notice how your ex said that RIGHT NOW she doesn't feel that way about you.  And how it was YOUR decision to not talk to her.  My ex would say the same thing to me if I contacted her today.  I remember last October when I stopped talking to her (I never said I didn't want to speak to her ever again) - she ran off with that co-worker for the weekend and slept with him.  She literally just turned and looked for the nearest attachment.  When we got back together, I asked her why she did that, and she cried and said "I thought you never wanted to talk to me again!"  I think that even though SHE broke up with ME, and SHE stopped responding to my texts the next day, that when I let her birthday pass a week later and didn't contact her, she used that black/white thinking and decided I hated her.  She was with him a week later.

What would have been our fifth anniversary together is coming up this week.  Maybe that's why she is liking my Facebook comments, so I contact her.  But I won't.  I'm not going to let her once again talk about us in the past tense and tell me how sorry she is that we can't be together.  And then flaunt Forrest Gump in my face.  No, she can spend that day with him, waiting for his calling whistle.

[4Years5Months]

She posted a photo of the two of them last night, about 5 hours after that "whistle" status.  Commented about how hot he is.  Looks like something happened and she's now in damage control.  She doesn't poke at me like that unless she wanted something.  They had a fight, and now she's reeling him back in.  My sleuthing friend said my replacement has said NOTHING about her, just jokes.

[Heldfast]

Dude, break this off, your just hurting yourself. It sucks, it sucks for all of us, but you won't break free of her renting space while she's the subject of focus. I know it's hard. But cut her off and cut her out. Just work on you.

[4Years5Months]

I'm slowly doing that.  I need to realize that if this replacement is going to sink, it's going to take a little bit.  I also took too much delight in seeing they had a fight.  I think she poked at me and when I didn't respond, she turned on the love bombing tenfold with my replacement again.  I'm actually proud I didn't break and send her a text.

[4Years5Months]

Here's an interesting question -

He was a country boy before he started dating my ex.  Carhartt jacket, buzz cut, etc.  NOT THAT THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT... .but my ex would NOT go for a guy like that.  Add in the Christian Republican values, dumbness, etc... .

Now, the current photos of the two of them, he has grown his hair out, has a beard, wears nice button up shirts... .like I do.  She has shaped him to be the guy she wants.  She wanted me to have a beard, and well, I like it and have kept it, ha.  He has mirrored what she needs... .could he be a BPDer, too?  I'm thinking more along the lines of doing anything and everything to land my ex, but he definitely didn't look like that for several years, based upon his Facebook page.  Just in the last few months.

That got me to thinking... .what if TWO BPDers were in a relationship together?  How would that work?  Double idealization, double devaluing?  Or do they compliment each other well and surprisingly have a higher success rate?

[Blimblam]

Why do you think you are so concerned with her rs with your replacement?

I was too and it was torture!

[Dutched]

4Years5Months, I really feel your struggling! It is a lonely road with a lot of bumps and holes

Here's an interesting question -

He was a country boy before he started dating my ex.  Carhartt jacket, buzz cut, etc.  NOT THAT THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT... .but my ex would NOT go for a guy like that.  Add in the Christian Republican values, dumbness, etc... .

Please read more posts, search for  mirroring  / chameleon.

Here for exw tattoos were taboo, disgusting; now hooked by a soother with it

Disgusting again in those days…  having a partner much older (‘don’t understand those people! Can’t they think! Once the youngest one is retired the partner will be senile! Don’t they have common sense!’)

That soother is a 13 yrs older… ‘don’t they have common sense’… ,

Here exw never showed any interest at all for off road/Paris Dakar. Several proposals made to split the fam in guys and girls (they shopping, guys to the mud) were discarded! Now with soother attending a pre prologue ParisDakar mud on an ice cold day... .,

Don’t ask about my sons feelings when ‘mom’ told him that ‘mom’ and

soother bought tickets for that event… the event ‘mom’ discarded many times… but one day… ‘mom’ will be confronted for the hurt caused.

Now because of soother ‘enjoying’ off road activities in wind, rain, cold, mud and oil… all for 'real men'... .as long as that 65yr old, really worn out, soothercan... .

exw even bought a cheap wannabee Japanese4x4car... .disgusting once... , special that visible spare wheel, then what use could one find for it... .Must say friends bought for years loaded with full options, LR Discovery's... .   

Don’t ask for more examples please, I don't want to get emotional, just want to stay in a laughing mood wrtiting the above.

That got me to thinking... .what if TWO BPDers were in a relationship together?  How would that work?  :)ouble idealization, double devaluing?  Or do they compliment each other well and surprisingly have a higher success rate?

There are many answers, as every person is an individual. Even on the Boards for PD’s and special where pwBPD post, the question is asked and in many varieties answered.

Please don’t beat yourself up to find those answers, to rationalize that behaviour,

Borderline is an explanation for that behaviour

And Friend, give yourself a really big EGO BOOST!

   That guy is NOT a replacement!

It implies that there are 2 of 4Years5Months…  Are there? NO!

YOU are unique, one of a kind!

That's why I NEVER use replacement, that's why I after a 30+yrs uses SOOTHER, as he is a SOOTHER (sadly fails to see it... .yet)