Can a BPD have a successful r/s with someone as selfish as they are?

[dobie]

I'm just wondering as BPDs have so many wants and needs that they need meeting could they have a successful r/s with someone as self serving as them?

Someone distant , selfish , passive aggressive , resentful etc

[Bassoutcast]

Hmm, interesting question!

I think that in the long run - no. BPD's need emotional caretakers, and that need is often filled by their partners.

When a partner is distant, it does the trick of maintaining a certain balance between engulfment and abandonment, meaning they're "there" but not so much, but in the long run - it wouldn't work. If something like marriage or some kind of commitment comes to mind - it'll trigger engulfment, and no matter for what selfish reasons the partner might be doing it (be it for healthcare benefits, great sex or whatever), it'll do the trick.

Maybe in some twisted way they might find sense in each other's actions, but that sounds like a real long-shot to me.

[valet]

Good question, dobie.

From my experience with my uBPDex, I would say that this scenario would be absolutely impossible.

I was extremely co-dependent in my relationship, and it was the longest that anyone had lasted dating my ex. From what she says, it was her deepest and most important relationship. I really believe this claim, but it is only because my love for her warped me into a lesser version of myself, one that would compromise anything to keep the relationship intact.

This, of course, is where I went wrong. If boundaries and had been established and proper communication techniques had been used, I'm sure that we would still be together.

That's not the case though, and I'm pretty happy with the outcome!

[Trog]

Ha! No.

They need a person who is giving, kind and endlessly forgiving and able to suspend reality. They ALWAYS have ltr with their opposites, it just wouldn't work any other way. They can have quick flings of course and do esp with shiny, impressive NPDs, but that will head south dramatically. If I go thru my Ex's exes it's a who who of kind, soft wallies, some have had extreme issues but they were always overly generous and kind.

[enlighten me]

I think it depends on your idea of success.

if you mean they would have a long term partnership that provides for each others needs then no.

If you mean that they could do what they wanted and not have to worry what their partner thinks then yes but only for a limited time. I think it wouldnt take too long before the dissorder would take over and resentment would kick in.

I think the only time a long term relationship could work is if the partner was NPD and controlling or severely co dependant.

I am not saying that people on this board who are in long term relationships are either. Rememver that there are different severities and upvringings which have a factor on a pwBPDs intensities.

[Mutt]

Hi dobie,

I'm not sure that a relationship with a pwNPD is a more ideal setting for a pwBPD. BPD is a persecution complex or they often feel victimized and a pwNPD don't often feel comfortable in the role as rescuer. I think Trog is right that a pwBPD will emotionally collapse when someone is in the role of persecutor. I suggest reading Stop Caretaking the Narcissist or Borderline by Margalis Felstad.

Bassoutcast is right that a pwBPD are emotionally arrested at an early development stage and are scared of the world and need an emotional caretaker.

I like valet was the longest r/s that she had and she did not say to me that I was the most important. I was a helper, fixer and rescuer for her and I also don't know her past r/s with her boyfriends. She's not one that's responsible for her own actions; and expects others to fix.  She mostly speaks about her exes as "all bad" years later and only one that she was fond of but it's the father that she talks about as "all bad".

[dobie]

Hi dobie,

I'm not sure that a relationship with a pwNPD is a more ideal setting for a pwBPD. BPD is a persecution complex or they often feel victimized and a pwNPD don't often feel comfortable in the role as rescuer. I think Trog is right that a pwBPD will emotionally collapse when someone is in the role of persecutor. I suggest reading Stop Caretaking the Narcissist or Borderline by Margalis Felstad.

Bassoutcast is right that a pwBPD are emotionally arrested at an early development stage and are scared of the world and need an emotional caretaker.

I like valet was the longest r/s that she had and she did not say to me that I was the most important. I was a helper, fixer and rescuer for her and I also don't know her past r/s with her boyfriends. She's not one that's responsible for her own actions; and expects others to fix.  She mostly speaks about her exes as "all bad" years later and only one that she was fond of but it's the father that she talks about as "all bad".

Interesting thanks mutt and the rest of you guys

I was her longest r/s and most supportive no doubt. the guy before was a nice guy (i knew him) the ones before that well short term douche bags by all accounts .

I know my x well enough to know she will be on the look out for a fun (ass) bf at the moment how long that will last is anyone's guess .

I have a feeling after a few failed r/s she may just try to recycle me , by that time I will not be available  

[lipstick]

My ex (with the exception of yours truly) has been with his spouse for 26 years. They are both ( I suspect) BPD. She is a violent alcoholic. He is a passive-aggressive alcoholic.

Their relationship is one of tearing each other down emotionally. No sex. She is basically his second mommy. It is "comfortable" in that it is boring, routine, and safe. It keeps his disorder in check as much as that is possible. There is zero fear of abandonment as his spouse is completely dependent on him. She is a good deal older than he is and has no marketable skills. And is not able to take care of herself financially.

So I guess my ex is an example of a "successful" relationship in the fact that they've been together for so long. Is it a healthy relationship? Absolutely not. Especially since he continues to keep tabs on me. 

[dagwoodbowser]

When I first met my BPDx her 2 children were 3 and 5 yrs old. I helped potty train the youngest who was a boy and he caught on really well and fast. Only a few little accidents here and there. The older daughter was a chronic bed wetter and also had frequent accidents at school. I took on the role of not only father figure and overall comforter for all 3 but did my best to show my x how to use more positive reinforcement. I already have a well developed, healthy son in his 20's who always thanks me for the way he was brought up and free of Father Wounds.

There were times I was amazed at the total lack of empathy and natural maternal care that she lacked when her children were in emotional need. There were times her reactions and behavior towards her kids was disturbing and repulsive. 2 yrs later (this Feb) when the r/s collapsed I felt soo guilty about my inability to leave for the sake of those kids. The girl was already showing severe emotional and behavioral issues both at home and school, the little boy now 5 was into torturing animals and was very needy and clingy. To this day I still feel like I should do something like call CPS or something, but turns out she has already had previous complaints and she is so damn manipulative she comes off squeaky clean.

My point in sharing this is to reinforce your question about caring for someone that has selfish needs, that of course being a child with enormous amounts of emotional needs and the answer is Absolutley Not! I dontknow what will happen to those kids and I it's 2 more people that I lost and will likely never see again.

[zundertowz]

There all different I guess but I think my ex would last longer with a narcissit type of personality that would enjoy her drama and treat her like ___... .I got the feeling that the nice guy bored her after a while and she needed more drama and chaos in her life.  I also think fighting back and being more aggressive in some way made her feel more wanted... .like someone was fighting for her.   But I doubt she can have a successful longterm r/s with anyone.

[Beach_Babe]

Depends on how you define success my friend. My folks are an unpd/uBPD couple. They are both high powered doctors, and successful to the outside world. They have a GREAT marriage. 40 years now, and they both lie, cheat and abuse each other. My childhood was AWESOME.

[BorisAcusio]

According to McCormack(1989), a common marital constellation is a schizoid individual marrying a borderline individual, in which each partner uses “the other to fill fundamental deficiencies in the sense of self” (p.50).  

My exBPDgf previous relationship was with someone on schizoid scale. He processed every event separately, having a fundamental problem with connecting events into a coherent narrative, unable to see the bigger picture, never really helding her accountable. His emotional distance was easing the engulfment fears, while, as an otherwise functioning adult, provided her with the safe ground.

She used him - as Blimblam once put - like a launching pad and safe space to venture out into the world and return to look for safety, leading a double life for more than 7 constructive years. She brought her lovers to the marital house, hiding one of them in the attic while he made a brief stop at home to change clothes after a night shift, introducing few of them to their daughter, making the poor little girl an accomplice in betraying her own father.

While it lasted lasted more than 10 years, that's not how you would describe a successful relationship, but certainly much "functional" than any other constellation I can think of.

[Inside]

I’m finding myself in agreement with everyone   Including the following -

My ex (with the exception of yours truly) has been with his spouse for 26 years. They are both ( I suspect) BPD. She is a violent alcoholic. He is a passive-aggressive alcoholic.

Their relationship is one of tearing each other down emotionally. No sex. She is basically his second mommy. It is "comfortable" in that it is boring, routine, and safe. It keeps his disorder in check as much as that is possible. There is zero fear of abandonment as his spouse is completely dependent on him. She is a good deal older than he is and has no marketable skills. And is not able to take care of herself financially.

So I guess my ex is an example of a "successful" relationship in the fact that they've been together for so long. Is it a healthy relationship? Absolutely not. Especially since he continues to keep tabs on me. 

 

A “successful r/s” to them sounds like a living Hell, to me    Glad I’m out!

[llor]

Based on my experience my ex was way too demanding to be with someone like her. I mean I am in the military, and I can take a load of crap. when I met her I was strong and energic, when she was done with me, inside I was soo tired, so sad and depressed.

They you to give ALOT of yourself to make this work. They cant make it work with someone like them.

[FannyB]

Doesn't a narc and a pwBPD have a chance of a prolonged honeymoon period before the borderline takes umbrage and ultimately annihilates her partner? I don't think there is a successful relationship blueprint for a BPD relationship that lasts longer term though - not unless the disorder does dissipate with time. 

[eeks]

Can they have a relationship with someone as selfish as them, I imagine so.  Whether that relationship is successful is a different question.

uBPD ex seemed to have two "scripts" that he followed in relationships:  the first one is to start off as victim, turn into... .hmm... .shall I call it "victim/perpetrator"?  He idealized me at first, trusted me, then I did something that hurt him (that I genuinely apologized for, and repeatedly), and in retrospect, I should have ended contact with him right there.  I wonder what he would have done.  And even if I didn't, he should have either been willing to talk it out with me (instead of the resentment seeping into all other discussions), OR cease contact with me himself.  In any case, what actually happened was that he became suspicious of my motivations for everything I did, sarcastic responses accusing me of selfish motives, silent treatment leaving me assuming he doesn't want to talk to me anymore, then bizarre "how are you" texts 1-2 weeks later, double binds, etc.  So he was trying to paint himself as a victim but to me it had a grandiose quality, like maybe not emotional abuse of me but pretty close.  

Or, start as... .I'm not sure what, but turn into rescuer.  His last relationship before me was 2 years prior, from what he told me this woman was quite dysfunctional, she was physically abusive to him, and I would say sexually abusive also. He told me about some things they did that I don't even want to repeat here, that sounded to me not like BDSM but just plain degrading, to him.  He liked that she was so uninhibited, but it didn't sound to me at all like the lack of inhibition that comes from trust and emotional maturity, it was more like a poorly developed conscience, unhealthy boundaries.  I got the sense that he was trying to caretake her so that she would be healthy enough to love him back... .maybe she was just like one of his parents, repetition compulsion. He attempted suicide after she dumped him.  

So let's go through this again, he got rid of me, a healthy-ish woman (I have done and continue to do things that are unhealthy but at least I am committed to awareness of it, going to therapy and so on, and I have a conscience and experience genuine remorse for doing things that have a negative impact on others).  But he wanted to end his life over losing someone totally dysfunctional and was still obsessed with her 2 years later? Right, so he's looking for an ideal mommy, gets rid of or mistreats the ones who are close to that (for fear they will harm him) but bonds to the ones who are so far away from being such a prospect... .

then he never has to face the grief about his past that will come up if he has the experience of being truly loved.  :)oesn't mean I was the right woman for him, (or he for me) but I think that's the pattern.  (plus if she is a "bad" woman he can project all his bad stuff onto her)

And I think if us nons were honest with ourselves, many of us would find that we did the same thing.  Maybe not quite that extreme, but similar pattern.  My T recently told me that he thinks my family used me as a "lightning rod", (after I told him about the 20 minute lecture I got from my parents and sister about 7 years ago about something pretty minor that I did.  I was living with my sister at the time, my parents were visiting us and we were walking down the sidewalk.  I quickly darted in front of my sister on a diagonal to get to the municipal garbage/recycle bin to throw out a banana peel.  They kept on going about how rude it was to go in front of someone without letting them know, I kept saying I am an adult, i will make my own decisions about my behaviour and accept the consequences!).  

I will need to ask more about what he meant by "lightning rod", but it sounds like he was saying they experience strong emotional energy and instead of dealing with it in themselves, they use me as a "ground" through which to process it, by saying it is me who is behaving wrong.  Ostensibly, "because they are worried about me being hurt", but really to process their own worries and frustrations about life.  And because these snippy lectures were seemingly always about what's wrong with my behaviour or my life decisions, it also begins to sound like scapegoat.  As in, "we just can't figure out what's wrong with her".  

[Olivia_D]

Who would provide the identity?  Who would walk into the restaurant first?  Can a table at a restaurant handle two people strutting while sitting? (Sarcasm intended).  I think that the only way two narcissists (like my parents -- I am starting to think that Beach and I may be related) can survive together is IF they have a common "objective" like political couples who have their eye on the Whitehouse or con artists that target a third party or if they have enough outside fans / support that idealize them like a movie star couple or something along those lines.  Of course, it doesn't have to be at this scale and those are just examples that pop to mind.  So, rather than a genuine loving relationship, it would be more like a business arrangement where they are working in concert with a goals / agendas that are focused on something outside of the relationship.  Of course, there are those instances where one narcissist is full spectrum and the other is inverted and that "works" as the full spectrum person could always be in the one-up position.  All of these examples are ICK!

[apollotech]

From what I have gleaned from the professional literature, a CoD is the match for a pwBPD. One is a giver, the other a taker. Rather than asking if it could be a successful relationship, the question is, is it a healthy relationship? No. You cannot have a healthy relationship with an unhealthy participant.

[Trog]

Based on my experience my ex was way too demanding to be with someone like her. I mean I am in the military, and I can take a load of crap. when I met her I was strong and energic, when she was done with me, inside I was soo tired, so sad and depressed.

They you to give ALOT of yourself to make this work. They cant make it work with someone like them.

It's interesting how many military em get involved with these women! Maybe they were all secret UN peacekeepers? I don't think its a coincidence at all.

[enlighten me]

It would be interesting to see how many of us here are ex military. I suppose were used to putting up with stuff and putting others first.

[llor]

Based on my experience my ex was way too demanding to be with someone like her. I mean I am in the military, and I can take a load of crap. when I met her I was strong and energic, when she was done with me, inside I was soo tired, so sad and depressed.

They you to give ALOT of yourself to make this work. They cant make it work with someone like them.

It's interesting how many military em get involved with these women! Maybe they were all secret UN peacekeepers? I don't think its a coincidence at all.

Really ? Interesting. I only have heard of one guy who got involved with a women who we all suspect has BPD. Funny enough I went on a date with her before I met my current ex.

I think maybe it has to do with the fact that we can take verbal abuse and are used to self-sacrifice.

[enlighten me]

Might be an interesting thread to start. What careers we had. Ive seen a number of military, engineers and even psycologists on here. Are these all co dependant jobs? I dont think ive seen any law enforcement here though. Makes me wonder if their training warns them off?

[sbr1050]

There were times I was amazed at the total lack of empathy and natural maternal care that she lacked when her children were in emotional need. There were times her reactions and behavior towards her kids was disturbing

My ex to a "T"!  I was in a very similar situation, altho kids were older.  My ex seemed to never have patience with the emotional part of his kids - never interested, and actually irritated with, his kids sharing the stuff that went on at school, with friends, etc.  I always attributed it to him being a guy.

[Loosestrife]

Hi dobie,

I'm not sure that a relationship with a pwNPD is a more ideal setting for a pwBPD. BPD is a persecution complex or they often feel victimized and a pwNPD don't often feel comfortable in the role as rescuer. I think Trog is right that a pwBPD will emotionally collapse when someone is in the role of persecutor. I suggest reading Stop Caretaking the Narcissist or Borderline by Margalis Felstad.

Bassoutcast is right that a pwBPD are emotionally arrested at an early development stage and are scared of the world and need an emotional caretaker.

I like valet was the longest r/s that she had and she did not say to me that I was the most important. I was a helper, fixer and rescuer for her and I also don't know her past r/s with her boyfriends. She's not one that's responsible for her own actions; and expects others to fix.  She mostly speaks about her exes as "all bad" years later and only one that she was fond of but it's the father that she talks about as "all bad".

I can relate to this. I'm pretty sure the nons before us could at some point too !

[DreamerGirl]

I really think it does depend on so many other things as to whether they can have a successful relationship with someone who is similar to themselves.

I consider myself similar in many way, yet more evolved and mindful, which he is not. 

My BPDbf has made my life a roller-coaster.  I have always liked calm, but I very soon realized that he and I are on totally different wave lengths.  He loves the dramatic storm outs and silents treatments etc. 

But when I saw your title about being selfish, it really made me think.

My SO is very selfish, he makes everything about himself.  Especially when it comes to work.  But the exception does seem to be me.  A lot of the time.

To the best of his ability, he bends over backwards to be giving to me.  I think his reason is because he wants to be the one man who has given me *fill in blank*... ... ..that no other man has, so that makes him feel special and that will make me want to keep him.

So I feel in our relationship he actually gives me more, especially physically, than I do.  I am not used to this, I have always been more on an even keel, 50/50.  But, I do think this is his way of making me remember him, as the most giving if that makes sense.

I guess on a piece of paper, I would be considered the selfish one in our relationship, he will massage my feet, cook for me, buy me flowers and chocolates and treat me like a princess... .a true love story which is what has kept me here.  And then, there are always the big blowouts ... .but I wait because he will then do all the above, once again... .

[Infared]

I think that BPD's pick "us" for a reason!