Love vs Trust

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I loved my UxBPDbf.  I had never before in my life wanted to talk with a man so much.  Of course, I loved the physical aspect as well, but I totally delighted in his company.  We could hang out for hours, talking all the while, and then I'd happily talk to him for another hour as I drove home.  He was so funny, smart, perceptive and articulate.  

Today, I was alone in the car and said out loud "I really did love you."  And then I added, "but I never trusted you."  Which struck me as very true but also very odd.  How could I love someone that I didn't trust?  Is it possible to have REAL love without trust? Seems like it shouldn't be.  And yet, it feels to me like both were true:  I loved him but didn't trust him.  

What say you?  

[ReclaimingMyLife]

I loved my UxBPDbf.  I had never before in my life wanted to talk with a man so much.  Of course, I loved the physical aspect as well, but I totally delighted in his company.  We could hang out for hours, talking all the while, and then I'd happily talk to him for another hour as I drove home.  He was so funny, smart, perceptive and articulate.  

Today, I was alone in the car and said out loud "I really did love you."  And then I added, "but I never trusted you."  Which struck me as very true but also very odd.  How could I love someone that I didn't trust?  Is it possible to have REAL love without trust? Seems like it shouldn't be.  And yet, it feels to me like both were true:  I loved him but didn't trust him.  

What say you?  

[Panda39]

I think you can only have Healthy Love when there is trust.

[Lishab23]

I agree! You can love them but it's not healthy! Very good topic I was thinking about this the other day! I also loved my ex but never trusted him from the start!

[StarOfTheSea]

I loved my exBPDbf very much. I've never loved a man as much as I loved him, but did I trust him? No. I didn't trust him not to turn on me. And guess what? He did. He might have turned on me, but by not trusting him with certain information, experiences, etc. I never gave him any real reasons to speak poorly of me.

On the flip side he trusted me with a lot of information that no one would be proud of. In fact, one day he told me "I don't know why I'm telling you this stuff. I really trust you."

[UserName69]

I loved her in the beginning when her behavior "looked normal" I did trust her. Once when we had a fight she told me that she invited an another guy for sex over her place, but he was really bad at it so she kicked him out. She told me this literally in my face, from that moment I never trusted her anymore. What really made me laugh is that she told me that I'm not trustful, cheater and that I have BPD. Later she wanted "more room and space". Yeah right. All these things only made me hate her so much. I'm happy that BS RS is over.

[ReclaimingMyLife]

I agree with y'all that it seems that healthy love would must include trust, but then I wonder.  Like I could totally imagine a mother truly loving their child but not trusting them.  That seems both possible and probable (certainly here on this site).  And yet, in romantic love it seems that the lack of trust would inhibit real love.  Not sure.  What do y'all think?  While the form is clearly different, is the substance of love different between parent/child and romantic partners. 

Am I wrong when I claim that I really loved my ex even though I didn't trust him?  I never even let him meet my kids I trusted him so little.  And yet I feel so strongly that I loved him.  Not sure where the truth lies.  Maybe both are true.  Or maybe one can't be true without the other.  Food for thought!

[Mutt]

All these things only made me hate her so much.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. -Martin Luther King, Jr.

Hi ReclaimingMyLife,

I trusted my ex partner up until the last few months. I saw signs of an affair for many months and I couldn't believe that she would go as far as cheating on me. I think I was in self-denial and she seemed like a person that wouldn't abandon me. I do think that trust is an important ingredient for a foundation for a r/s.

There was resentment that was brewing for a long time and I think that there were serious cracks in the foundation of my marriage. I think it was a boundary for me that I have difficulties trusting a romantic partner after secrecy and cheating.

Like I could totally imagine a mother truly loving their child but not trusting them

I did a lot of self reflection. What I learned from having a romantic relationship with a pwBPD is that my definition of what love is for me changed to one that is unconditional love. That definition may also change for me again. I do have a relationship with my ex after the break-up with my kids and co-parenting and I have learned to let go of resentment and a lot of my anger. I understand that BPD is difficult to cope with and I try to not take her behaviors personal. I don't have a romantic relationship with her and trust is not an issue in that sense. I do find that she is a very secretive person and can be selfish, she has difficulties displaying empathy because how can be overwhelmed with intense emotions and I empathize.

I'm guessing here and do you think it could be unconditional love?

[ReclaimingMyLife]

I did a lot of self reflection and what I learned from having a romantic relationship with a person with borderline personality disorder is that the definition of love for me changed to one that is unconditional love. Do you think it could be unconditional love?

Hey Mutt, would love to hear more.  Can you say more about how the love changed?  What happened that feels like it went from conditional to unconditional?  Does it feel unconditional now?  Please say more.

And yet, upon quick reflection, as I think about my own life, I could believe this could be true.  I love my ex-husband (a non but still a difficult person) and have virtually no expectations of him.  As such, my love doesn't depend on his behavior (which is often quite bad).

That said, liking him is often a totally different story.  Sometimes I like him a lot.  Sometimes I like him very little.  But pretty much I have loved him either way.  Though I would never live with/be married to him again

[dobie]

I loved and trusted her not to leave I have engagement and abandonment issues myself . which I've learned made me perfect bait for a BPDer after all they idolise you so you can stay emotionally distant while feeling loved , respected and validated . it was when I started to love /need her and chase her the slow devaluation began .

In the end she betrayed that trust and mutt like you I saw/felt the signs for a long while but was in denial I'm sorry you had to go through that . after her betrayal its going to take me a long while to open myself to being that vulnerable again .

[Mutt]

Hi ReclaimingmyLife,

I can understand abandonment issues as I fear abandonment as well. I may of answered a little more to your question in my previous post. I modified it and noticed you responded   I'm inherently the caretaker type and I think that love for me in the r/s was fixing and helping. I suffered from and still work on self esteem issues and found that I didn't love myself. I looked inward and I think I was treating others better than I was treating myself and wasn't taking care of myself.

I was looking for love and validation from another person and learned that love starts with you and that I need to validate myself because I didn't get that validation from my caregivers. I found that love is not found in someone else, I think you have to love who you are and it starts there.

They're too young to understand that their mother is mentally ill and they love her unconditionally. I think that a lot of her behaviors are driven by BPD. She feels a deep sense of worthlessness, emptiness, loneliness. Sometimes she'll have a tantrum, projects and dissociates and I try as best I can to not take her behaviors personal because this is how she copes and I overlook that. I was hurt after the break-up and I was thinking about what love is and I looked at how my kids love dad unconditionally and mom the same way. That's where love meant something different than what I thought love was - unconditional. I also think about if love was reciprocated and I think that the experience that I had was a very different experience than what my partner had.

[Panda39]

What really made me laugh is that she told me that I'm not trustful, cheater and that I have BPD.

Can we all say projection!

I agree with y'all that it seems that healthy love would must include trust, but then I wonder.  Like I could totally imagine a mother truly loving their child but not trusting them.  That seems both possible and probable (certainly here on this site).  And yet, in romantic love it seems that the lack of trust would inhibit real love.  Not sure.  What do y'all think?  While the form is clearly different, is the substance of love different between parent/child and romantic partners.  

I think a parent/child relationship is a different animal than a romantic relationship.  Of course none of us are going to trust a 3 year old to cook dinner for us or a teenager to manage the family budget.  A parent/child relationship is an unequal relationship because of the difference in maturity. I think we actually can and do trust our kids for the most part to be and do what is age appropriate.  

I used to believe in unconditional love but lately I'm kind of chewing on that one... .honesty and trust are probably conditions that I must have for a happy healthy relationship with anyone, my SO, my son, my friends and my coworkers.

[Mutt]

I think a parent/child relationship is a different animal than a romantic relationship.

According to the book Real Love, unconditional love is, in essence, true love -- so different from the kind of love most of us have known all our lives that it deserves a definition of its own. Unconditional love is caring about the happiness of another person without any thought for what we might get for ourselves.

[valet]

Love = Trust

There is nothing beyond that equality other than codependence.