Does loving your pwBPD make them angry?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I have an odd insight that I have become aware of recently and am wondering what others have to say.

I am in process of divorce.  In my FOG I have moments of wanting my 2bx to know that I care about and love her.  DISCLAIMER: She already knows I love her – I am the one who is not acknowledging that she knows and I foolishly keep repeating self-defeating acts of kindness to get my message across in hopes of a different response. 

If I am reading her right, I keep sensing 2 things when I do this.  First is that she gets angry with me.  My gut senses that it is almost like she is pissed that I would still want to be nice and warm to her after her behaviors toward me.  Perhaps she is feeling guilty? 

Second, she sees me as weak.  Like the above explanation, my sense is that for her it feels something like; if you still want to be with me after all I have done then you are weak or you are a liar.  She is a master of hyper-vigilance and can tell when I am not being truthful about my feelings.  Maybe she knows that I am really angry and she will never allow herself to have to face that.

All this reminds me of a conversation we had years ago when I told her I would no longer tolerate abuse and I asked her why she did it to me.  Her response, a HUGE , was “because you let me”. 

Is this what it boils down to?  They are so fear-based and out of control that in their minds their extreme behaviors and thinking is rationalized to if you keep coming back then you must be good with this. 

DISCLAIMER: This all makes me feel rather foolish.

Have others this sense with their r/s?

[joeramabeme]

I have an odd insight that I have become aware of recently and am wondering what others have to say.

I am in process of divorce.  In my FOG I have moments of wanting my 2bx to know that I care about and love her.  DISCLAIMER: She already knows I love her – I am the one who is not acknowledging that she knows and I foolishly keep repeating self-defeating acts of kindness to get my message across in hopes of a different response. 

If I am reading her right, I keep sensing 2 things when I do this.  First is that she gets angry with me.  My gut senses that it is almost like she is pissed that I would still want to be nice and warm to her after her behaviors toward me.  Perhaps she is feeling guilty? 

Second, she sees me as weak.  Like the above explanation, my sense is that for her it feels something like; if you still want to be with me after all I have done then you are weak or you are a liar.  She is a master of hyper-vigilance and can tell when I am not being truthful about my feelings.  Maybe she knows that I am really angry and she will never allow herself to have to face that.

All this reminds me of a conversation we had years ago when I told her I would no longer tolerate abuse and I asked her why she did it to me.  Her response, a HUGE , was “because you let me”. 

Is this what it boils down to?  They are so fear-based and out of control that in their minds their extreme behaviors and thinking is rationalized to if you keep coming back then you must be good with this. 

DISCLAIMER: This all makes me feel rather foolish.

Have others this sense with their r/s?

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey joe-

Anger is a secondary emotion; whatever's under it is primary.  Borderlines fear engulfment, losing themselves in another person, and intimacy or attempts at it trigger that fear, she's fearful, so she gets pissed, but under it is that fear.  Plus borderlines are typically emotionally immature and are incapable of experiencing the mature love you're talking about, on some level she knows that, and if you found out you'd leave, so it triggers the other predominant fear, abandonment.  Bottom line is we can't get as close as we'd like with a borderline, knew that, and stayed anyway and kept trying in the face of abuse.

The other piece I noticed just applies to people in general: people will only treat us the way we allow them to, and although it would be nice if respect could be expected, more often it needs to be demanded.  Of course someone who cares about us is going to not only treat us with respect but also help us with our self respect, but a borderline, dealing with the continual chaos between their ears, is going to try and offload some of that onto us, projection, to feel better, plus try and control us to manage the conflicting fears of abandonment and engulfment, so there's not much room left for respect.

[blissful_camper]

My experience with ex was that he needed others to behave in ways that reinforced his perceptions of them.  For example, if he'd painted someone black he needed that person to exhibit behavior that justified his disliking them even if that meant provoking someone to garner the response he desired.  He needed continual 'proof'.

It's disheartening, sad, and toxic. 

Ex knew that he had 'issues' but preferred to blame his issues on others.  When I went back to him (during the r/s) it seemed to signal to him that his issues weren't destructive to me or our r/s. 

This month I'm two years out of the r/s.  I remain in NC to love and protect myself.  I'm a stronger person now with boundaries that I reinforce. 

I have the right to say no and I do when it's time to say no.  There is no place in my life for abuse.  When I find myself at the receiving end of abuse (that includes words that are hurtful to others) I hear this important message:  “No, not in my house.” -- Maya Angelou

'There's a place in you that you must keep inviolate. You must keep it pristine, clean, so that nobody has the right to curse you or treat you badly. Nobody. No mother, father, no wife, no husband, nobody.'"

Advising her son to protect himself like this was important to Dr. Angelou not just for emotional reasons, but spiritual ones as well. "That [pristine place] may be the place where you go to when you meet God," she remembers telling Guy. "You have to have a place where you say, 'Stop it. Back up... .' Because that place [within yourself] has to remain clean and clear."

"That is the best advice," Oprah agrees. "Nothing tops having the place inside yourself that nobody else has the right to invade."

You may find this helpful:

www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/21/maya-angelou-quotes-oprah-advice_n_3308310.html

[Tim300]

":)oes loving your pwBPD make them angry?"

I experienced this.  There were stretches where me saying "I love you" was met solely with the emotion of anger.  This was especially true when I first began to say "I love you" regularly, after she had begun saying "I love you" to me well over 6 months earlier.  This was not during a time during which she was trying to break up with me or run off with someone else.  At the time I thought it must be a combination of PMS and perhaps her disbelief that what she had dreamed of was finally materializing, although I couldn't make much sense of it.  I called my mother to try to explain what was happening, and my mother, who has no knowledge about PDs, just said that my pwBPD was likely having PMS and I should just get out of her path for a bit.  Now that much time has passed I think the only explanation is that there is no rational explanation -- it's just craziness.  Don't try to analyze it to death trying to figure out some rational strategy or thought process on the part of your pwBPD.  Oftentimes the pwBPD cannot understand his/her own behavior.  Anger in response to "I love you" makes no sense.  If this happens to me again I will run.

[fromheeltoheal]

My experience with ex was that he needed others to behave in ways that reinforced his perceptions of them.  For example, if he'd painted someone black he needed that person to exhibit behavior that justified his disliking them even if that meant provoking someone to garner the response he desired.  He needed continual 'proof'.

I experienced this too, and had enough awareness, and towards the end just didn't care, that I could see myself and what part I played in her pathology from within the disorder.  So just to screw with her, because hey, I wasn't perfect either, I'd get really sticky sweet, kind, mellow and accommodating, which infuriated the hell out of her, thought her head was going to explode as raging ensued, fun that, and I'd also accepted I had absolutely no control or influence over the mood of the moment, but if I waited a while the emotional storm would pass and we'd have a feel-good phase between storm fronts.  I was wanting to be with someone who would bring me in out of the storm, not be the storm, so off to shelter I went, weathered but wiser.  It wasn't until much later that the severity of what I went through became clear; hard to see a Katrina when you're in it, might look like a light summer rain shower when all the defenses are up.  Anyone tired of weather metaphors yet?

[rotiroti]

My experience with ex was that he needed others to behave in ways that reinforced his perceptions of them.  For example, if he'd painted someone black he needed that person to exhibit behavior that justified his disliking them even if that meant provoking someone to garner the response he desired.  He needed continual 'proof'.

I experienced this too, and had enough awareness, and towards the end just didn't care, that I could see myself and what part I played in her pathology from within the disorder.  So just to screw with her, because hey, I wasn't perfect either, I'd get really sticky sweet, kind, mellow and accommodating, which infuriated the hell out of her, thought her head was going to explode as raging ensued, fun that, and I'd also accepted I had absolutely no control or influence over the mood of the moment, but if I waited a while the emotional storm would pass and we'd have a feel-good phase between storm fronts.  I was wanting to be with someone who would bring me in out of the storm, not be the storm, so off to shelter I went, weathered but wiser.  It wasn't until much later that the severity of what I went through became clear; hard to see a Katrina when you're in it, might look like a light summer rain shower when all the defenses are up.  Anyone tired of weather metaphors yet?

thanks for the laugh fromheeltoheal.

Bring up a good point, I think the fact that I didn't really react to her rages really set her off. Then she started calling me passive and that I had avoidant personality disorder. Wish I knew enough to act the opposite at the time.

[Tim300]

My experience with ex was that he needed others to behave in ways that reinforced his perceptions of them.  For example, if he'd painted someone black he needed that person to exhibit behavior that justified his disliking them even if that meant provoking someone to garner the response he desired.  He needed continual 'proof'.

I experienced this too, and had enough awareness, and towards the end just didn't care, that I could see myself and what part I played in her pathology from within the disorder.  So just to screw with her, because hey, I wasn't perfect either, I'd get really sticky sweet, kind, mellow and accommodating, which infuriated the hell out of her, thought her head was going to explode as raging ensued, fun that, and I'd also accepted I had absolutely no control or influence over the mood of the moment, but if I waited a while the emotional storm would pass and we'd have a feel-good phase between storm fronts.  I was wanting to be with someone who would bring me in out of the storm, not be the storm, so off to shelter I went, weathered but wiser.  It wasn't until much later that the severity of what I went through became clear; hard to see a Katrina when you're in it, might look like a light summer rain shower when all the defenses are up.  Anyone tired of weather metaphors yet?

Ha, that's fun writing.  

I agree that people might underestimate the severity of the situation (with a pwBPD) until they're out of it and fully read up on BPD.  This sounds dramatic, but I genuinely believe I'm lucky to be alive -- that is, lucky that she didn't kill me (which is a threat she made to me, that included a physical attack on me).  

[UserName69]

When I got too close she took her distance. Whenever I took my distance she became too close. Now THATS craziness at it's highest peak. I never understood why she did this, any girl would love it to have a guy who really loves her and gives her all the attention he can.

At the end I didn't even care about her anymore and I knew this was just a super bad relationship. I met an another girl, dated her a couple times now we're in a relationship. I'm glad she is normal and doesn't have BPD. What a relief.

Still the best part of my rs with my exBPD is: she plays the victim and all her friends do believe her. Look how she has manipulated them.

[Tim300]

Still the best part of my rs with my exBPD is: she plays the victim . . .

Standard BPD procedure. 

[dobie]

Before I broke up with my exBPDgf I said "you know how much I love you "

She said "people have told me " not sure if this was a pity party or what she actually felt

I remember her not understanding why when she threatened to leave why I'd be distraught like she could not understand  I loved her


But I never saw her angry because of love

[Mike-X]

I am sorry that you are struggling with this. It has come up on the boards in various forms many times.

Is this what it boils down to?  They are so fear-based and out of control that in their minds their extreme behaviors and thinking is rationalized to if you keep coming back then you must be good with this. 

In my opinion, the expressed rationalization might come out this way. However, as you have somewhat noted with things being "fear-based and out-of-control," the inner struggles that pwBPD seem to experience are complex and affected by a range of dysfunctional coping mechanisms.

Have you read the following summary of the struggles with relationships for someone with BPD:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/my-definition-love-i-have-borderline-personality-disorder

[Mike-X]

When I got too close she took her distance. Whenever I took my distance she became too close. Now THATS craziness at it's highest peak. I never understood why she did this, any girl would love it to have a guy who really loves her and gives her all the attention he can.

Are you saying that you didn't understand at the time, because you didn't know about BPD, or are you saying that you still don't understand?

[joeramabeme]

When I got too close she took her distance. Whenever I took my distance she became too close. Now THATS craziness at it's highest peak. I never understood why she did this, any girl would love it to have a guy who really loves her and gives her all the attention he can.

I am familiar with this in my marriage and even other relationships.  Push-Pull, come here and go away.  It is crazy making.  And it gets crazier when I try to prove my love is real.  In addition, I had my own element of this, which made her feel crazy too.  Thing was, she was so good at seeing it in me and pulled me out of the behavior only for me to find myself playing the same with her and she could not come out of it.

At the end I didn't even care about her anymore and I knew this was just a super bad relationship. I met an another girl, dated her a couple times now we're in a relationship. I'm glad she is normal and doesn't have BPD. What a relief.

Ya, as I am in process of divorce and I am deeply struggling with this (among other things).  About 8 months ago I was done!  Took a trip to Florida and felt really good with knowledge that r/s did not work and that I am a decent guy and capable of meeting someone else.  But my wires have gotten (or were) severely crossed. 

I have morphed from what I labelled "Florida Joe" to this alter ego guy who is deeply sad and depressed and struggling to understand what happened and wanting another chance. 

Is it denial?  Since February I have only had brief moments of feeling something better is in my future.