How often do you second guess BPD in your spouse and what happened?

[toddinrochester]

Hello! So I just spent an hour in bed knowing what I know now, still saying well maybe she isn't BPD (everything points to it as we all have the same story) but yet I yearn for that closeness to a person so bad that I am starting to justify it. Like maybe she just needed time away. Maybe I was the one in a million for her and maybe this was a romance like you read about. Anyone else get stuck here and how do I rock my self through this. I know what it was. I know who she is. But my heart wants that drug back so bad.

[scgator]

Hi Todd,

I struggled with this in the beginning of detaching from my rs with my undiagnosed gf. I second guessed myself considerably about her behavior and how my reactions may have contributed to it and things I could have done differently. I kept thinking, despite all the indications of BPD, that maybe it was me. In the end, it finally came down to whether or not I could live with the treatment I had been put through, BPD or not. Once I decided, with the help of anxiety, fear, unexpected weight loss and depression, that I couldn't live that way the idea of whether or not she has BPD became secondary to my own needs. The draw to reconnect was strong in the beginning but diminished over time as I made a point to make my own life fulfilling for me. I still think about her from time to time and still miss the fantasy but I don't miss the fear, belittling, rages, accusations, lies and push/pull behavior. I read about trauma bonding and truly that's what my rs was like. It's not the heart that wants the drug back, it's our brains. Once we replace that "drug" with healthier endeavors the draw starts to fade, at least it did for me. Having this forum, where people can relate, has been a huge help as well. Hang in there, it gets better.

[toddinrochester]

Thank you for the reply. Mine never exhibited the rage or anger. Everything else though. She was fresh out of an abusive relationship (she said three months, then two then I find out it might have been a few weeks) and in fact has court the 26th of this month with the abusive ex in regards to restraining orders and stuff. The sad part is I almost want to reach out to her ex and find out exactly what was true and what wasn't. I can see how after (she told me a seven month relationship but the police report said over a year) that period of time that she could have broken me down the same way she did him. I know who he is, we have one mutual friend and I am tempted. I also want him to know that its possibly not all his fault and let him know about this site and to read the stories. I am torn. I am also wondering if seeing him in court for the first time in a few months on the 11th that she split him white. She mentioned to me that night that she was so confused and that it wasn't like she wanted him back or anything. That comment caught me off guard because I had never mentioned that and she felt the need to say that. I would never have expected her to want him back, he was abusive. Now after reading about BPD. She could very well want him back in her life. But restraining orders will get in the way.

[DaKid]

I feel your pain too. I too have these thoughts a lot.

I posted something kinda similar and have a good quote from it.

What people tell me is that it doesn't matter in the big picture, what matters is how you were treated. If you weren't treated very well that is all that matters.

It makes sense cause even though we don't have a diagnosed guarantee. The fact is that we were still treated badly. Even though the good times were so good.

I struggle with this topic too.

[Polis_Ohio]

This is me everyday. Could I have been different? Yes, I should have been I had my own issues.

Would that have mattered? Maybe, but probably not.

[Corgicuddler95]

Yeah I get that feel. My therapist wasn't sure she had BPD when they met, shes never angry and even this week when I saw her she seemed so calm, understanding and rational.

24 Hours later she started telling me she never wants to hear from me again so I know something ain't right

[problemsolver]

Frequently , alot of the times I think if perhaps I could of prolonged the "idolizing" phase longer... .but it got to a point where I could visually see her splitting me... .it was odd but when I was white her eyes would light up like Christmas and be REALLY wide...

[toddinrochester]

I have a picture of her from her birthday dinner. That was the night I was split. Her eyes so full of promise and life and love. God I miss her. I miss the feeling. Time heals and thats all I have.

[goateeki]

Hello! So I just spent an hour in bed knowing what I know now, still saying well maybe she isn't BPD (everything points to it as we all have the same story) but yet I yearn for that closeness to a person so bad that I am starting to justify it. Like maybe she just needed time away. Maybe I was the one in a million for her and maybe this was a romance like you read about. Anyone else get stuck here and how do I rock my self through this. I know what it was. I know who she is. But my heart wants that drug back so bad.

I'm not sure that there is a one in a million person for anyone.

I'd echo what others have said here regarding behavior.  The only thing we ever have to deal with is behavior.  The best advice that was ever given to me in therapy was this "Accept a person's behavior as real and believe it. Don't explain it, don't justify it.  The behavior you're seeing is who that person really is."

For example, my ex wife was raised by an absolute witch of a mother who did every bad thing a parent could do short of attempting to actually kill her.  That lead to some really bad decisions by my ex wife during her teen years, and this was compounded by a rape by a stranger when we were dating.  All of those things lead to complex PTSD and a BPD diagnosis ("undeniable borderline traits" and "persistent borderline traits," I was told).

So this is what I accept;  I accept that her life has made her who she is, and the way she treated me is who she really is.  The worst of her that I saw -- that wasn't exceptional.  Those were moments of a reality that she kept well hidden so she could live among fellow humans.  But that's how she really felt, and the bizarre things she thinks, she actually thinks them.  

What I don't do is believe that her horrible life experiences explain or justify her behavior.  Just imagine what a belief like that does.  That means that being treated badly by her without end is always OK, because her past is never going to change.  It will always be there.

I will admit that at the same time I sometimes have dreams that we have made up and love each other again.  But I know that that is an emotional part of me and it's not a healthy emotional part of me.  It's something that I have to manage.  Letting one's heart rule one's head isn't a good thing. Reality is the best teacher, and I think that we have to adhere to hard realities sometimes for our own well being.

[DaKid]

I'd echo what others have said here regarding behavior.  The only thing we ever have to deal with is behavior.  The best advice that was ever given to me in therapy was this "Accept a person's behavior as real and believe it. Don't explain it, don't justify it.  The behavior you're seeing is who that person really is."

For example, my ex wife was raised by an absolute witch of a mother who did every bad thing a parent could do short of attempting to actually kill her.  That lead to some really bad decisions by my ex wife during her teen years, and this was compounded by a rape by a stranger when we were dating.  All of those things lead to complex PTSD and a BPD diagnosis ("undeniable borderline traits" and "persistent borderline traits," I was told).

So this is what I accept;  I accept that her life has made her who she is, and the way she treated me is who she really is.  The worst of her that I saw -- that wasn't exceptional.  Those were moments of a reality that she kept well hidden so she could live among fellow humans.  But that's how she really felt, and the bizarre things she thinks, she actually thinks them.  

What I don't do is believe that her horrible life experiences explain or justify her behavior.  Just imagine what a belief like that does.  That means that being treated badly by her without end is always OK, because her past is never going to change.  It will always be there.

I will admit that at the same time I sometimes have dreams that we have made up and love each other again.  But I know that that is an emotional part of me and it's not a healthy emotional part of me.  It's something that I have to manage.  Letting one's heart rule one's head isn't a good thing. Reality is the best teacher, and I think that we have to adhere to hard realities sometimes for our own well being.

I can relate to this a lot. Maybe it was how she was raised and/or a combo of things.

In a few arguments she would say this is how I am. But then a day later, her mom would do the same exact thing to her. (Be mean or rude or ignore her point of view or something) and she would be so upset and hurt. I would comfort her and wait till another day and ask if it bothers her when her mom does it, do you want to be doing the exact thing to me?  I have always tried to learn from my parents mistakes. And not repeat them. She would actually agree. And I said we have to become better people than our parents. She would say yes we do and I thought we were growing together. But maybe she was just building resentment. I have no idea.

I know I will just have to accept it all. That the hurdle I think we all face one time or another.

Just trying to work through it day by day... .

[thisagain]

Hi everyone! I'm new to the Leaving board, looking forward to meeting and learning from everyone.

I was lucky on this front. My previously undiagnosed partner broke up with me by text from the ambulance on the way to the psych ER (I had to call because she was making imminent suicide threats). The ER doctor called me to ask what had happened, and for the first time officially diagnosed her as BPD. The doctor told me it sounded like I'd become an expert on BPD and done everything I could and then some to help her and the relationship... .So that's some consolation, when I'm tempted to second-guess or wonder if I could have just tried harder and loved her more.

There are things that we deserve no matter what. Some that come to mind are physical safety, safety from emotional and other abuse, not being raged at, not being blamed for things that aren't our fault, stability with our finances and living situation, and time and space to do what matters to us (go to work, hobbies, friends, etc). When the pwBPD first started interfering with those needs, I'm sure we all tried to bend and approach things differently to protect those needs within the relationship. I think just having joined here is a sign that you went above and beyond in trying to make it work.

But sometimes the tools don't work. Sometimes the partner is too far gone to be soothed by validation, sometimes the boundaries or the T part of SET trigger a huge dysregulation or breakup. And I think choosing to take on the caregiver role is a very difficult personal choice, and there's nothing wrong with the people who say no to taking on that role.

Anyways... .that's my rant.

[Mutt]

Anyone else get stuck here and how do I rock my self through this. I know what it was. I know who she is. But my heart wants that drug back so bad.

It takes time for your heart to catch up with your head.

[cyclistIII]

Wow... .thank you for this post. I feel like I could have written it. I just joined this site an hour ago and to see someone else express the exact kind of thinking that led me here is already making me feel better.

[toddinrochester]

Welcome cyclist! I just joined a few days ago. I spent the past three days shaking my head and crying. You are going to find we all have pretty much the same story. Just names and locations and lengths of time will be different.

[jhkbuzz]

Thank you for the reply. Mine never exhibited the rage or anger. Everything else though. She was fresh out of an abusive relationship (she said three months, then two then I find out it might have been a few weeks) and in fact has court the 26th of this month with the abusive ex in regards to restraining orders and stuff. The sad part is I almost want to reach out to her ex and find out exactly what was true and what wasn't. I can see how after (she told me a seven month relationship but the police report said over a year) that period of time that she could have broken me down the same way she did him. I know who he is, we have one mutual friend and I am tempted. I also want him to know that its possibly not all his fault and let him know about this site and to read the stories. I am torn. I am also wondering if seeing him in court for the first time in a few months on the 11th that she split him white. She mentioned to me that night that she was so confused and that it wasn't like she wanted him back or anything. That comment caught me off guard because I had never mentioned that and she felt the need to say that. I would never have expected her to want him back, he was abusive. Now after reading about BPD. She could very well want him back in her life. But restraining orders will get in the way.

My ex didn't rage either - she was a waif. And also had "abusive exes" - which I now wonder about as well. I wonder how much was true (because she lied a lot), or how much she may have pushed people beyond what they could bear. Not an excuse for abusive behavior by any means, but I know that if I had been a less controlled, mature person I might have taken a swing after some of the truly awful things she did in our r/s. I've also had the same thoughts about reaching out to exes. I decided not to - it would increase my involvement in her life -  and embroil me in drama. I've had enough drama to last me several lifetimes.

My advice is to remain n/c for now as you're healing - and that includes her exes. The temptation is strong, I know - but remaining involved in her life in any way will prolong your suffering.

[toddinrochester]

Thanks Buzz. I am going to take that advice to heart. I also dated the "quiet" borderline or waif. Completely disarming and it seems they all have the same story. Its odd looking back on everything and while she made it a point to not have "crutches" in her life, every single story she told me she was the victim. Even some stuff at work that happened to her was because "I didn't sleep with the professor that is now in charge of the bylaws committee". In my heart I know there is a good person in there and when we split I had just started to get her to look at her self. Like really look at her self. This is when she needed to run from me. She started to break down crying and basically said that if she starts she is not sure when it will stop because there is so much in there. Look at me. Right now I am wishing nothing but  hold her and help her because I think there is a good person in there that I fell in love with. Thats how powerful this is. Amazing!

[jhkbuzz]

Thanks Buzz. I am going to take that advice to heart. I also dated the "quiet" borderline or waif. Completely disarming and it seems they all have the same story. Its odd looking back on everything and while she made it a point to not have "crutches" in her life, every single story she told me she was the victim. Even some stuff at work that happened to her was because "I didn't sleep with the professor that is now in charge of the bylaws committee". In my heart I know there is a good person in there and when we split I had just started to get her to look at her self. Like really look at her self. This is when she needed to run from me. She started to break down crying and basically said that if she starts she is not sure when it will stop because there is so much in there. Look at me. Right now I am wishing nothing but  hold her and help her because I think there is a good person in there that I fell in love with. Thats how powerful this is. Amazing!

I struggled with that as well - mightily - for a very long time. Eventually I learned to turn some of that love towards myself. I lost myself - and lost touch with my needs - in an effort to "love" a person struggling with mental health issues. That effort, in some ways, was self-serving - it kept me from having to look at my own "stuff" and my own wounds. I'm looking at ALL of that now with the help of a therapist, and it's one of the blessings that has come out of the r/s.

[cyclistIII]

The abusive ex thing, yes! I'm having that same temptation with my recent break-up, to contact his ex and find out what "really happened" in their relationship, especially since he told me even before we started dating that he wished he'd met me before her, since she "broke" him etc etc... .of course, it could go either way, because I think people with mental health issues are more likely to get into abusive relationships so... .who knows?

I also ultimately decided it's best not to engage. (Even though I'm SO CURIOUS... .sigh... .some part of my brain still thinks I can "solve" this... .)

[toddinrochester]

I am not going to engage him either but if he finds me I would sit down and talk. Again I am sitting here. Completely damaged by this event and yet all I want to do is talk to her and try and get her help. I realize she only mirrored what I needed in life and became everything I ever wanted. It makes it tough. I am really struggling today/right now. Even though I am positive she has moved on. Such a funny place to be for us nons. Always second guessing ourselves. A friend on here suggested I go read the "Staying" boards and see what I was in for. It might help me.

[klacey3]

The abusive ex thing, yes! I'm having that same temptation with my recent break-up, to contact his ex and find out what "really happened" in their relationship, especially since he told me even before we started dating that he wished he'd met me before her, since she "broke" him etc etc... .of course, it could go either way, because I think people with mental health issues are more likely to get into abusive relationships so... .who knows?

I also ultimately decided it's best not to engage. (Even though I'm SO CURIOUS... .sigh... .some part of my brain still thinks I can "solve" this... .)

I know exactly how you feel! My ex would say negative things about everyone girl he has been with. "She was a self harmer nutcase" "she is evil" "she is an alcoholic with family issues" "shes a gameplayer" "she used to send me pictures of her cheating" "she accused me of sick things that weren't true"

Yet I noticed he was actually communicating on his facebook wall with someone that "was the biggest psycho" he had ever met. This person apparently told his Mum that he was a rapist. When I confronted him about how he could have such a person on his facebook and still talk to her he told me I had issues and he can talk to who he wants and not have to answer to me.

So yeah I think it would be very interesting if us nons spoke to their ex's to find out what the real story was. Like you, I think it is for the best that I don't contact anyone though.

In response to the question, yes I have doubts. Sometimes I am sure he has BPD. And sometimes I think he has other mental issues, and sometimes I think I was the problem and sometimes I think he is just a nasty low life that is good at acting

[scgator]

The abusive ex thing, yes! I'm having that same temptation with my recent break-up, to contact his ex and find out what "really happened" in their relationship, especially since he told me even before we started dating that he wished he'd met me before her, since she "broke" him etc etc... .of course, it could go either way, because I think people with mental health issues are more likely to get into abusive relationships so... .who knows?

I also ultimately decided it's best not to engage. (Even though I'm SO CURIOUS... .sigh... .some part of my brain still thinks I can "solve" this... .)

I know exactly how you feel! My ex would say negative things about everyone girl he has been with. "She was a self harmer nutcase" "she is evil" "she is an alcoholic with family issues" "shes a gameplayer" "she used to send me pictures of her cheating" "she accused me of sick things that weren't true"

Yet I noticed he was actually communicating on his facebook wall with someone that "was the biggest psycho" he had ever met. This person apparently told his Mum that he was a rapist. When I confronted him about how he could have such a person on his facebook and still talk to her he told me I had issues and he can talk to who he wants and not have to answer to me.

So yeah I think it would be very interesting if us nons spoke to their ex's to find out what the real story was. Like you, I think it is for the best that I don't contact anyone though.

In response to the question, yes I have doubts. Sometimes I am sure he has BPD. And sometimes I think he has other mental issues, and sometimes I think I was the problem and sometimes I think he is just a nasty low life that is good at acting

Same here - her ex husband was an abusive alcoholic, she had "creepers" always following her around, some guy sent her sexts out of the blue, her exbf put snakes in her yard. Now that I'm out of the FOG I realize there are holes in her stories. She once told me her exh started drinking because of her and only got abusive when she was on the attack. I found a nude pic she sent me had been taken months before I met her - probably sent to the guy who sexted her. She told me another time when she was comparing me to the exbf and I mentioned the snakes that he didn't do that.

I was tempted to find out what the truth is as well but then thought how would that really help me? I think it would only make me feel worse about the fact that I missed it all. How I was affected by her is all I really need to know.

[focus]

I can relate.

My ex wife is undiagnozed, she has BPD traits, but when I read some of the stories on here it has made me wonder.

There are a lot of similarities, but one very common aspect was missing in our marrage. The black\white splitting.

When I read some of the stories here, and some really are crazy, has had me second guessing everything.

She wasn't abusive, she was a good hearted woman.

But she could be difficult.

The last four months in our marrige things started to get bad, she relapsed, started using drugs again and heavy drinking came following right after and it went spiraling downwards very fast. It got extreemly ugly and pow.

The things that bother me are the same someone posted above, that perhaps I'm the one in a million guys.

Perhaps she "functioned" with me, because our r/s was her healthiest by longshot, her longest by longshot and she choose to stay with me. She didn't have to.

Her only other long term relationship was with her childrens father. And she was sort of trapped. He was abusive, they were both using.

Her childrens father has been clean for many years and is doing good in life, is married to a wonderful women. The kids live with him and his wife.

I still meet the kids every week and we do stuff, go to the cinema etc.

My ex is still using, and living with my replacement that is also an addict. She doesn't contact her children at all now for a few months.

What makes me feel really guilty is that I have ignored all her calling attempts and haven't responded to any of her texts.

There was a certain pattern to her calling and texts but that pattern is now gone and her attempts have been increasing.

I went strict NC before I learned about BPD and NPD. I've even been going through the whole divorce provess in NC.

But BPD or not, I'm sticking with NC for as long as I feel is needed.

But it messes with me that maybe she wants me to save her. And while I'm staying NC she is still using. Kinda feel like I owe it to the children to give them their mom back.

[toddinrochester]

Its tough. My mom stopped over to see me today and I had to run out and when I got back she wanted to bash my exwBPD. I stopped her. I had to tell her that I have some responsibility in this in that she mirrored what I needed in the relationship. My un-healthy co-dependence was given back to me and I was hooked!  It has been easy for me at times to mentally think she is a bad person. I am throwing that to the wind today. I want it no more. She wasn't abusive or angry. She was the "quiet" borderline to the T. The waif. Her mom has it and she has it. The stress of living that life is horrible and I wish it on nobody. I choose to start working on me today. Today I change. I am going to get health emotionally so that I do not attract these types again (second one for me). But yeah, I totally start to wonder if maybe I just was over reacting to things. Until I come here to these very boards that most likely saved my life and I read the stories. Then I know exactly what happened.

[cyclistIII]

My aunt said the best thing to me twelve years ago when I was thinking about leaving my xhwBPD. She said, "[name] is great. We love [name]. You need to get out of this relationship." It was the best possible thing to say because if she'd attacked him, I would have just gotten defensive, but instead she was basically saying, he has a good heart, he's not a bad person, but his illness is damaging you and you need to leave.

[Michelle27]

I am NC with my stbxh and have been for about 3 months (apart from one email each regarding divorce negotiations).  I spent 15 years with this man and was stepmom to his now 16 year old son from his first marriage.  He painted his first marriage as an abusive one, with him as the victim.  Sadly, I believed it for 15 years.  A couple weeks ago, I had an hour long phone conversation with his first wife in which I learned that she endured the same lies and cheating I did although she didn't last nearly as long as I did and didn't have to flee after raging dozens of times.  She ended the marriage before it got that bad.  She was also told the same lie I was about his employment history.  He worked for an airline, cleaning planes in the hangar at night.  He told both of us he used to be a pilot but was grounded due to unexplained blood clots (somewhat believable because he was on daily blood thinners).  Turns out his sister (manager at the airline) got him the job cleaning airplanes. 

Talking to her was cathartic, but also disturbing.  I realized how much I just took what he said as gospel and didn't question it and it really made me feel stupid.  To learn how much of a liar he was with her was good to hear so I didn't feel so crazy. 

It made me NOT question things anymore.  He really is a mess and I am grateful to be out of the relationship.