Really confused... please help

[Depression = 72% of members]

Being in this forum for a couple of days I can understand that most of you are very familiar with the symptoms of BPD and how it affects a relationship. I am still trying to figure out if BPD is the reason of my ex's behavior and maybe find closure this way since I don't seem to find it in any other way.Most of the things you talk about in the different forums here seem really familiar but in my case there were no devaluation phases as such.

There were clear idealization phases but those were usually followed by him disappearing for different reasons but never because he felt he didn't love me or like me anymore. It was always for reasons that I think had to do with a fear of abandonment and his insecurity to invest in the relationship and be left heartbroken (he had a bad previous experience). It seemed more like he would devalue what we had, not me. The relationship would seem more difficult during those periods and he would convince him self that it would come to an end sooner or later so he was destroying it on his own.

For example he would convince himself that I would leave him at some point because he was shorter than me. Or that I would break up with him because I would get tired of the long distance relationship. Other times he would get so frustrated by his financially struggles and feel like he couldn't offer anything in this relationship. But again, although that was real I feel like it was still an excuse to cover up for his difficulty to invest and be left heartbroken. Every time he disappeared though(3 times in 9 months), he would return and admit his reasons, which never had to do with devaluing me as a person, would apologize for his harsh behavior of ignoring my attempts to reach out to him and would always admit I didn't deserve this kind of behavior. He never replaced me however, never went after another girl during this time either. He would however not return any of my calls or messages and would even delete my number, his viber, skype etc which I found harsh, egocentric and extreme. I could never understand how you can do that to someone you love. 

I don't know... .Does it still sound like a BPD even though it doesn't exactly fit the picture that most of you describe? Please help me if you can... .

[Penelope35]

Being in this forum for a couple of days I can understand that most of you are very familiar with the symptoms of BPD and how it affects a relationship. I am still trying to figure out if BPD is the reason of my ex's behavior and maybe find closure this way since I don't seem to find it in any other way.Most of the things you talk about in the different forums here seem really familiar but in my case there were no devaluation phases as such.

There were clear idealization phases but those were usually followed by him disappearing for different reasons but never because he felt he didn't love me or like me anymore. It was always for reasons that I think had to do with a fear of abandonment and his insecurity to invest in the relationship and be left heartbroken (he had a bad previous experience). It seemed more like he would devalue what we had, not me. The relationship would seem more difficult during those periods and he would convince him self that it would come to an end sooner or later so he was destroying it on his own.

For example he would convince himself that I would leave him at some point because he was shorter than me. Or that I would break up with him because I would get tired of the long distance relationship. Other times he would get so frustrated by his financially struggles and feel like he couldn't offer anything in this relationship. But again, although that was real I feel like it was still an excuse to cover up for his difficulty to invest and be left heartbroken. Every time he disappeared though(3 times in 9 months), he would return and admit his reasons, which never had to do with devaluing me as a person, would apologize for his harsh behavior of ignoring my attempts to reach out to him and would always admit I didn't deserve this kind of behavior. He never replaced me however, never went after another girl during this time either. He would however not return any of my calls or messages and would even delete my number, his viber, skype etc which I found harsh, egocentric and extreme. I could never understand how you can do that to someone you love. 

I don't know... .Does it still sound like a BPD even though it doesn't exactly fit the picture that most of you describe? Please help me if you can... .

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey Penelope-

I'm sorry you've gone through that stuff.  Reading your post the first thing I thought about was an avoidant attachment style.  We all have an attachment style, either secure, anxious or avoidant, and folks with a given style do things in somewhat predictable ways in line with their style.  There aren't any "wrong" ones, they just are, and it's the combination of two styles in a relationship that can present challenges or not.  Here's a wikipedia on attachment styles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_in_adults

Significant traits of the disorder don't jump out at me from this one post, but keep digging, you ended up here for a reason, and everyone's different with varying mixes of traits.  Take care of you!

[C.Stein]

It seemed more like he would devalue what we had, not me. The relationship would seem more difficult during those periods and he would convince him self that it would come to an end sooner or later so he was destroying it on his own.

Ask yourself this.  Isn't devaluing the relationship also devaluing you?  Without you there would be no relationship.

I don't know... .Does it still sound like a BPD even though it doesn't exactly fit the picture that most of you describe? Please help me if you can... .

I understand your struggle here, I am faced with it myself.  My ex didn't do any of the things yours did, nor did she do a lot of the things I see reported by others on this forum.   She has at points in our relationship displayed most, if not all, of the DSM traits, they just weren't consistent throughout the relationship.  :)oes that mean she doesn't suffer from BPD?  Not necessarily, it might have just been circumstances in our relationship and her life in general would trigger her more (or less).  

Does it really matter BPD or not?  What matters is how the behavior impacts you.  

[Penelope35]

Thank you both for your replies. I guess the reason I am struggling to find the "source" of his behavior is so that I can get a better understanding of what has happened... .I just don't want to fool my self and keep thinking that he loved me as much as I thought he did if this is not the case. On the other hand, despite of everything he has done, I never doubted his feelings and always knew there was something else there that cause him to be so self destructive.

I am sure it is something more than an attachment style thing but you are right when you say that it doesn't really matter and that what matters most is how his actions made/make me feel. It's just so hard to process how someone could come back for the third time, so sure and confident and enthusiastic about being together again, creating so many expectations for me and then just turn everything upside down within a months time. He was supposed to be here this weekend (we were in a long distance r/s), and for once more, when the meeting time got closer everything in his mind turned from white to black. He didn't even say so. And this is the hardest part, that he just dissapeared and only send a message a week later to tell me that I should forget about him because the only thing he can do for me is cause me more pain. It's like he cannot let himself feel happy... .I miss him and feel sorry for him at the same time.

Everyone around me is getting angry at me for not getting angry at him. But I just can't because I know he is also struggling. I can't settle with the idea that if he doesn't want to help himself there is nothing I can do... .

[patientandclear]

I do think that sounds like a classic BPD dynamic. What to make of it, and what to do about it, is a challenge to figure out, for sure. What is the current status?

[Penelope35]

I do think that sounds like a classic BPD dynamic. What to make of it, and what to do about it, is a challenge to figure out, for sure. What is the current status?

This past Monday was when I received that message. This time I didn't try to convince him that what he is doing is a mistake or that we can work everything out. I used to be doing this all of the previous times because he never said he doesn't love me enough. He always gave reasons that I understood had to do with his fear of abandonment so I tried to comfort him. But I have no strength or energy to do it this time... .

I am totally heartbroken by how he turned everything upside down and by the way he chose to end it. I just replied his message the next day and said how much it hurts that he created all these expectations that i didn't even ask for and just left. I said I don't want to know why anymore and that I didn't want a reply from him. I said I just want to pick up my pieces and put this behind me. And that was it.

The truth is I can't put it behind me though and I am waiting to hear from him... .it's really hard to comprehend that I am seating hear crying when three weeks ago we were both on cloud nine... .

[apollotech]

Hi Penelope,

Welcome to bpdfamily! I couldn't see much BPD in what you described. What was going on in the relationship those three times that he left? Was there a great deal of emotional intimacy before he pulled away? Or perhaps there were commitments made: living together, marriage, a vacation together, discussing possibly having children, etc.?

[Penelope35]

Hi apollotech. I can't say I am glad I am in this community 

He was actually the one talking about being together forever and me giving him a daughter and blah blah and I was the one who tried to slow him down. This is actually one of the traits of BPD that I saw in him. His impulsivity and how he overexpressed himself and didn't filter at all what he was saying or consider the impact those things he said had on me. Two times it happened a few days before I was supposed to fly to his place and the third time it happened a week after I left.

Other traits I see is his black or white perception of our situation and how quickly he would move from one phase to another and destroy everything, his extreme fear of abandonment (he would get jealous every time I would go out or mention a friend's name and make a huge deal about it where I had to work hard to calm him down. He was convinced I was going to cheat on him or stop loving him) and his very low self esteem during his down phases and how harsh he would get by completely ignoring all my attempts to reach out to him. It was like I was involved with two different people. Everything was perfect and magical and he couldn't be happier and then everything was difficult and this relationship could go nowhere.

After the break ups he would come back and first blame most of it on me but then admit how scared he is to let himself trust and enjoy what we have. It was llike he couldn't let it grow and couldn't allow himself to feel happy. Everything was perfect when we were apart but when the time came to meet up everything seemed difficult... .

Confuuuuused!

[Penelope35]

He was also a bit of a drama queen on the way he talked and behaved during his down phases... .

[apollotech]

Penelope:

After the break ups he would come back and first blame most of it on me but then admit how scared he is to let himself trust and enjoy what we have. It was llike he couldn't let it grow and couldn't allow himself to feel happy. Everything was perfect when we were apart but when the time came to meet up everything seemed difficult... .

Hi Penelope,

Well, I certainly understand your disenchantment as a member of our sad little club. I don't believe that any of us are very happy with our membership. 

I don't know if your friend has BPD or not, but the being okay apart but not okay while together could certainly indicate an engulfment issue. Of course, there could be other causes for his behavior as well. It seems to me that you were caught in a push/pull cycle.

In my own experience with my BPDexgf, I experienced the same thing: she was okay when we were apart but came unglued when we were together (major engulfment issues). As you mentioned, it was like being with two different people. I too, like you, recognized that the relationship wasn't maturing; it was mired in breakups and makeups (We recycled twice before I bailed on the third recycle attempt.) Like your ex, mine used the "It's hard for me to trust anyone" line because she had been mistreated by so many terrible men in her past (professional victim). The truth of the matter was that she couldn't handle intimacy, sexual or emotional. Like you, I'd get the big push off when we were together, then she'd run back when we were apart. Like you, I was wholly confused at the time.

Keep reading/posting on the boards and learning about BPD; it will help you in understanding exactly what he was trying to accomplish with his abnormal behavior(s). Hopefully it will also free you when you fully comprehend just how little authority/control you actually exercised over the relationship.

[Penelope35]

Thank you Apollotech. Reading about your all's experiences is really helping me. I have been reading about BPD since the third break up during the summer. Then when he came back all sure and confident that he wanted to be together I forgot about it. It took about a month before I could start seing signs again.  Still not sure if it's BPD or another kind of emotional issue but in reality I know it doesn't really matter. I thought it mattered so that I could figure out how to handle him or even to be able to explain his behavior but does it really matter after all?

I don't know... .

The thing is, I have been in this relationship for nine months and I have spent most of the time crying rather than smiling. Yes the first three months were wonderful, I couldn't believe how lucky I was and yes I felt emotions that i didn't even know existed. But for how long should I or everyone else here be holding on to those magical times? Is it worth all the pain and days and nights of crying and obsessing and giving ourselves this unbearable time? Why do we allow these people who always put their selves above everything control our lives? I have isolated my self from my friends and family because I feel like they don't understand me anymore, I am not able to concentrate at my job, I have neglected my niece and nephew and my poor little dog keeps looking in my eyes and cries. Is it worth it? Why do we allow these people to just come and go into our lives and make a mess everytime. Since we have all felt these feelings then we know they are there! And there are so many people out there who would feel blessed to have them and reciprocate, as we have felt during the good times of these relationships. I know he loves me. I know. But at the same time he causes me pain and can stand the idea of me being in pain (he knows I am hurting right now) because his drama is always bigger than mine. Is this the kind of love me or anybody else here needs? I could never do that to anyone and this is probably why we clinged onto each other so much. Because I have the tendency to put others first and help the helpless and he is hepless and needs someone to love him under any circumstances and be there to validate him when he needs it.

I have been feeling sorry for him and couldn't give up on the idea that I can't help him enjoy this relationship but I am no God and as hard as it is I need to accept that I did everything I could. I know a few hours later I may start feeling sorry for him and start thinking of the times he said while crying that he knew he was pushing me away but couldn't stand the thought of loosing me but it's during those times that I need to remind myself that I am now crying because I am missing him because he chose for me to miss him and because he let me down again and gave up on everything he so passionately dreamed of for us. And another comforting thought for me is that I don't think they feel as sorry for themselves as we feel about them. Denial is a great mechanism and maybe we should just let them be the way it suits them better.

Nobody can be in a relationship where you don't know what the next day is going to bring and this relationship will never reach the closeness we thought it would reach.

I am hopeful today that there are people out there with whom this can be the reality and not the desire. I hope I can continue this way of thinking and remember what I am saying right now every time I miss him and feel dissapointed. And I with the same  for all of you!

[troisette]

Hello Penelope, welcome and sympathy to you.

The early days in the aftermath of a break-up are hell. Disbelief, excuses, longing, pain, wondering... .and a lot more.

If there hasn't been a formal diagnosis, it's natural to question whether it is BPD. As has been mentioned, there are variants, it's not one size fits all. But there are fundamental indicators.

And it's normal to spend time concentrating on them rather than looking at ourselves. I second the suggestion that you spend some time in self reflection, reading about trauma bonding.

It gets better, slowly. And it's easier with no contact. Best wishes.

[apollotech]

Hi Penelope,

Yes, yes, yes! You are very much correct; it doesn't matter if it is actually BPD, XYZ, or 123----the end result is that the relationship wasn't working; it was toxic. That is excellent, quick recognition on your behalf.

You asked why we let these people linger in our lives. Let's look at the biology of that for a bit. In my opinion and to be frank, you, like the rest of us, were drugged. You were drugged with and became addicted to the brain chemistry that he produced in you. Idealization, to a degree and for a limited period, is normal, but, as you noticed yourself, a BPD relationship (Let's assume that it is BPD for the sake of clarification.) doesn't mature out of this stage. Engulfment sets in for the pwBPD then the wheels fall off (that's the push phase). The person of affection, the Non, gets too far away then abandonment sets in with the pwBPD; as a result, they come running back and idealization begins anew (that's the pull phase). The Non is caught in this constant Danse of Overstimulation, you're now on the best drug you can take, specifically designed by you and just for you, your own chemistry. All relevant addiction lingo applies as well as the "coming out of the FOG" statement. It will take you awhile to revert back to baseline normal, but it will happen.

Most of us certainly went through the "we can help" our exSOs phase or we could "love them enough to make them better" phase or "with us, it'd be different" phase. None of it works because the problem is not with us; the problem is within them. You used the word "acceptance." That's of primary importance here, for the Non to finally accept that "No, they cannot correct the issues of the pwBPD." That acceptance will allow you to disengage.

Isolation, not good. Now is the time to get out, to reconnect with the ppl that you didn't have time for while you were on the crazy coaster. Now is a wonderful time to explore you, to work on you. Your friends and family may not understand what you've been through (That was my situation.), but ppl here will, so use these boards in your recovery. We certainly understand and are happy to help. Get the proper sleep, nutrition, and exercise. Don't let yourself go physically. Eventually your emotional self will catch-up to your rational self and you'll be free of your emotional turmoil. The sun does shine again, hang in there!

[Suzn]

Hello Penalope  

Bpd behaviors are confusing indeed. I'm sorry you are in the position to be investigating this disorder.   Breakups are hard for anyone, add in BPD traits and it can be overwhelming. I wanted to share a few of the workshops with you to help with understanding BPD better.

How a Borderline Relationship Evolves

Attachment styles were mentioned, add in emotional immaturity (the crux of unstable relationships). Emotional immaturity is not exclusive to BPD, many nons struggle with this too.

BPD BEHAVIORS: Emotional Immaturity

It was also mentioned that one size doesn't fit all. This is very true, there are different role types for BPD and sometimes commodities with other PD's. No one can diagnose your ex here, that requires a licensed professional as these diagnosis can be quite complex.  

It's great that you are looking at how your life has changed in this relationship, identifying how you feel and reaching out for support. Glad you found us.  

[Penelope35]

Thank you all so so much for being so supportive! Everyting you say helps cause i know you can relate to what i am feeling. I think I felt much more confident in the morning when I wrote my previous message though... .now my mind is stuck on "is he going to come back again?" And I am also tempted to text him... .I will not but I hate it that I am even thinking of doing it. Grrrr! I guess the emotional roller coaster doesn't end when the relationship ends... .