The BPD attracting other BPDs is a surprise to me.

[barterbarter]

I posted here 2 weeks ago, telling you I'd received a BP trait not full disorder from  psychiatrist I went to see, expecting an ADHD diagnosis.

I went back yesterday and he explained how borderlines attract and find and fall in love with other borderlines, with disastrous results.

It's all come as a bit of a humbling shock to me but he wants me to medicate and has asked me to reflect on my behaviour and relationships leading up to this past one and I'm starting to concede, I've always cheated, always chased women who reject me, and take the ones who love me for granted. I was abandoned my my father first when I was 11 when he left the family suddenly and again when he remarried when I was 23. Both times were dramatic and suddenly.

Again, he says I don't have the full-blown disorder but enough to be medicated. My dual diagnosis Bipolar spectrum with comorbid BPD traits and he says with medication I should be okay.

He says that basically what I have is an impulse disorder, which makes a lot of sense to me. I can't control many of my impulses and thought before it was part of my charm.

At any rate, I guess I've been on both sides of it, thinking I was a non with a BPD, but also as a BPD with another BPD. If I can help any of you going through the loss, I'm happy to answer questions.

The BPD attracting other BPDs is a surprise to me.

[shatra]

----Why 2 BPDs wouldn't be a couple:

-----It would self-destruct

-----They would constantly be doing the push-pull with each other (and it's hard enough when just one partner is doing that)... .and they would both be very fearful of abandonment, so overreact when the other pushes them away

-----The BPD with the neediness, impulses, and instability would do better with a partner who is somewhat stable and reliable (and would freak out with another BPD as a partner)

Why 2 BPDs would be a couple:

-----They would sense the same craziness in each other, and like attracts like

-----They would initially be attracted by the intensity and "splitting white" the other BPD offers (but it would eventually turn to being split black)

   

[hope2727]

Your post is very interesting. I am grateful for your words. I am sorry you have to work through these issues. At least now you can work throughout hem and find some peace. I hope you will continue to post your insights as you arrive at them. I am sincerely interested in learning more about your journey if you are willing to share it.

[hashtag_loyal]

Very interesting thought. I don't doubt at all that two borderlines could fall for each other.

Everyone looks for the feeling of familiarity within a romantic partner. When a non finds a pwBPD they feel like they have finally found a piece of themselves -- but that was just the mirroring.

Now what happens when two pwBPD meet and the masks come off? Would there not be the potential for true intimacy when one troubled soul finally finds another one who can actually understand them for who they are? I wonder.

[Moselle]

Barterbarter, this is a very interesting post. Thanks for being so open about it.

Why do you think you always cheated and attracted women who reject you?

[adventurer]

The fact that you are willing to consider this diagnosis and are clearly somewhat introspective makes me question the BPD part it a little but I have zero expertise in this area.  I have a bipolar ex who did great once she got medication sorted out.

It is great that you are getting some help for whatever your issues are, whether some sort of cluster B or fleas or whatever is comorbid.  I believe that with conciencious effort and cbt, dbt type of treatment and medication where appropriate that tons of improvement is possible.

Thanks for sharing your story.

[Pretty Woman]

Don't feel bad. Almost all of us have traits. That's why we were attracted and why we obsess at the end of the relationship.

Keep working on you. It's a good thing!



Hugs!

PW

[burritoman]

Looking back on what my exBPD told me about the man before me, he was either a full blown narcissist or had BPD. Sounded like a bag full of raging emotions. I do believe what she told me about him, because I saw some of his text messages when he would try to get her back. He'd be very sweet at first, but when she rejected him he'd FLY into a rage, cutting her down with some of the most horrible things I've ever seen a man say to a woman. When we started dating and she asked her family what they thought of me, they said, "As long as he's not him... ."

Point being, it's extremely destructive. From what she's told me, and if I'm right in analyzing him, it's physically violent, emotionally debilitating, and a horrendous thing to go through for both parties. Probably worse than what we had to go through. Imagine two very powerful magnetic beads attracted to each other, but when you place them a box their polarity changes, constantly repelling each other with no way out, so they just keep violently bouncing around until one breaks through the side of the box.

[Moselle]

Imagine two very powerful magnetic beads attracted to each other, but when you place them a box their polarity changes, constantly repelling each other with no way out, so they just keep violently bouncing around until one breaks through the side of the box.

Yes. This is a very good description of it.

[Reforming]

Hi Barter,

Thanks for following up on your last post

I've read quite a bit about BPD and I've discussed it with different therapists I've seen over the last few years.

I'm aware that there are occasions when BPDs can attract each other, but it doesn't appear to be very common. It is documented that BPDs and Narcissists can have a magnetic attraction for each other.

You mentioned in your last post that you were fairly certain that you had Adult ADHD.

ADHD is also an impulse control disorder (with a lot of similar symptoms to BPD) and it has a high incidence of comorbidity with Bipolar.

Gina Pera's book Adult ADHD, Is It You, Me, or Adult ADD? is very well written and interesting and draws on a really good cross section of medical expertise. She talks about the similarity of symptoms between ADHD and BPD and cites a case history of couple whose husband was diagnosed BPD (in marriage counselling) when he was actually suffering from ADHD. She writes "In fact ADHD is commonly misdiagnosed as BPD, but the two can co-occur."

Her book is particularly interesting on the impact that Adult ADHD can have on romantic relationships and family interaction.

I'd also recommend Thomas Brown's Attention Deficit Disorder and Edward Hallowell and John J Ratey Delivered from Distraction

Thanks for sharing your experience

Reforming

[unicorn2014]

Why? They understand each other like nobody else can, unless one of them gets treatment. Then there's issues.

[troisette]

I'm intrigued... .if two BPDs break up - how would they mourn the relationship?

[Reforming]

Someone suffering from BPD struggles with self awareness and the ability to understand themselves. So I don't think they actually understand each other like nobody else.

They are generally drawn to people who they believe (often mistakenly) will compensate for the own deficits. E.G People who appear to have a strong sense of self - something BPDs lack. Hence the attraction to narcissists.

I'd suggest a quick google on BPD attraction to Narcissists or if you interested in exploring it in more detail read Joan Lachkar The Narcissistic Borderline Couple

www.amazon.com/The-Narcissistic-Borderline-Couple-Approaches/dp/0415934710

Reforming

[shatra]

Unicorn wrote-----

  Why? They understand each other like noone else can

===As Reforming wrote, they struggle with awareness and understanding themselves (or others), so I would doubt there would be much understanding of each other.  Also, the strongly intense negative dynamics of even one BPD would be doubled in a 2 BPD relationship, so they would be doing a lot of fighting, blaming, raging, devaluing and splitting, not really doing much understanding of each other

Hashtag wrote=====

Everyone looks for the feeling of familiarity within a romantic partner.

Now what happens when two pwBPD meet and the masks come off? Would there not be the potential for true intimacy when one troubled soul finally finds another one who can actually understand them for who they are? I wonder.

=====The 'feeling of familiarity" would be a feeling of mutual illness.  Like 2 sociopaths together---they may be similar and familiar, but it would be unhealthy to say the least. 

======What happens when 2 BPDs' masks come off?  They show their negative sides, and the other one pushes them away. Their "potential for intimacy" is very minimal to begin with.  Their "understanding them for who they are" is also very minimal.   

-----Recognizing a similar illness in someone else would lead to 2 ill people, not lead to a positive connection

----Many nons have "tried to understand them for who they are" and done loads for the BPD, and the BPD was still unstable and unavailable, so it's even less likely that another BPD would be able to tolerate and give positive thiings or stability

[Moselle]

Reforming. Googling BPD/NPD is fascinating. Especially as I notice the kinds of people I'm still attracted to after breaking up with my BPD. Thanks for sharing

[barterbarter]

Apologies for the delay - work has been very busy leading up to the holidays.

Appreciate all your questions and will answer them all as soon as I can.

Two things that keep circulating in my head since my last appt.

1. The doc said be glad you're borderline/bipolar - ADHD is much worse. That surprised me. Borderlines seem doomed to hurt and alienate everyone. ADHD as I understood it seemed more sympathetic and hurt only themselves.

2. Weird as this sounds, I feel relieved to be borderline. It struck me as unfair, knowing that my u-BPD-ex would get over things so quickly and not be burdened by empathy. Her capacity to blame others was astounding. I envied her defense mechanisms and saw them as survival skills. If I'm the same way, I'm excited by having the same level of coldness available to me.

Anyone else ever think like that?

[unicorn2014]

barterbarter, You are talking about untreated borderline, as is everyone else, this is the leaving board.

Two borderlines who are in treatment or who have gone through treatment can be a great support of source to each other. Even two borderlines who have not gone through treatment can still understand each other.

The original poster is surprised that one borderline would attract another.

All programs of recovery are built on peer to peer support. Peer to peer support is very important in the mental health community.

I would say that those who have problem with borderlines having a relationship with each other might want to take a look and see if they have any codependency issues.

Often times when we want to help someone that help we're offering is more about us then them, and if they reject our help, we feel rejected.

[Reforming]

Apologies for the delay - work has been very busy leading up to the holidays.

Appreciate all your questions and will answer them all as soon as I can.

Two things that keep circulating in my head since my last appt.

1. The doc said be glad you're borderline/bipolar - ADHD is much worse. That surprised me. Borderlines seem doomed to hurt and alienate everyone. ADHD as I understood it seemed more sympathetic and hurt only themselves.

2. Weird as this sounds, I feel relieved to be borderline. It struck me as unfair, knowing that my u-BPD-ex would get over things so quickly and not be burdened by empathy. Her capacity to blame others was astounding. I envied her defense mechanisms and saw them as survival skills. If I'm the same way, I'm excited by having the same level of coldness available to me.

Anyone else ever think like that?

I'm not sure what you doc / psychiatrist's speciality is, but I would question some of his conclusions. How much does he know about ADHD? or Borderline?

How did he assess you?

From what you've said he hasn't diagnosed you as BPD, but said you had tendencies which is not the same thing

Undiagnosed and untreated ADHD can be very destructive in a way that pervades many areas of a sufferer's life. So can BPD. They share many similar traits.

If either undiagnosed and untreated they can be profoundly destructive.

One, ADHD responds very well to medication, the other, BPD responds well to specific types of behavioural therapy. The difficulty is that neither of these disorders typically occur in isolation - they're frequently accompanied by other disorders or condition.

ADHD has a substantial co-morbidity with Biplor, anxiety disorders, OCD and some personality disorders including BPD

ADHD is far more researched and scientifically validated than Borderline Personality - it's been around for longer - and with the correct medication and targeted therapy it's very treatable though not curable.

Borderline has high comorbidity with other personality disorders and depressive and anxiety disorders. This means treating is often not as simple as just targeted therapy (DBT or Schema).

They key thing to treating any mental health issue or disorder is getting an accurate diagnosis and that can be a lot more challenging than you might imagine.

Personally I think it's important to thoroughly research any condition and any diagnostician, therapist or therapy to make sure that you get the best outcome

It's alway worth getting another opinion - you have to drive your own healing

Reforming

[Reforming]

barterbarter, You are talking about untreated borderline, as is everyone else, this is the leaving board.

Two borderlines who are in treatment or who have gone through treatment can be a great support of source to each other. Even two borderlines who have not gone through treatment can still understand each other.

The original poster is surprised that one borderline would attract another.

All programs of recovery are built on peer to peer support. Peer to peer support is very important in the mental health community.

I would say that those who have problem with borderlines having a relationship with each other might want to take a look and see if they have any codependency issues.

Often times when we want to help someone that help we're offering is more about us then them, and if they reject our help, we feel rejected.

Hi Unicorn,

A considerable number of therapists who specialise in treating Borderline write about the strong attraction of between borderlines can feel for Narcissists. I don't doubt that relationships do occur between two Borderlines, but I think they're less common for reasons that are understandable and there's probably than just borderline in the picture

A lot of think of Borderline with quite a narrow frame of reference, the diagnostic criterial are evolving and BPD is frequently comorbid with other other conditions and PDs which means that it's challenging for a really skilled and experienced therapist to give an accurate diagnosis.

Not really sure what you mean about co-dependency. I think Borderlines are attracted to people who they believe they can fuse with to get a sense of identity. It's difficult for a borderline to give this to another borderline

Reforming

[shatra]

unicorn wrote--

Even two borderlines who have not gone through treatment can still understand each other. The original poster is surprised that one borderline would attract another.

All programs of recovery are built on peer to peer support. Peer to peer support is very important in the mental health community.

=====Especially if they haven't gone thru treatment, "understanding" the partner is not something pwBPD are known for doing very well.  Even if they understand each other (i.e. recognize similar traits in the other), that would still mean a relationship between 2 people who have major symptoms especially in the area of relationships... .2 sociopaths might "understand" each other and see mutual traits, and understand why each one is manipulative and commits crimes, etc.  It doesn't mean the relationship would be okay.

-----Programs of recovery with peer to peer support are different.  I don't think there are any for BPDs.  The groups for addictions are helpful for people who are interested in recovery, or are already recovering, which is different than 2 BPDs in a relationship.

---2 similar people wouldn't be a good match, if what the similarities are iinclude cheating, impulsivity, splitting, push-pull, abrupt breakups, etc.

[GreenEyedMonster]

I've read that people with engulfment fears attract people with abandonment fears.  If one pwBPD tends more toward fearing engulfment, and the other toward fearing abandonment, they will seem like the perfect match at first, but the relationship will turn into a see-saw from he11.

[SummerStorm]

I've read that people with engulfment fears attract people with abandonment fears.  If one pwBPD tends more toward fearing engulfment, and the other toward fearing abandonment, they will seem like the perfect match at first, but the relationship will turn into a see-saw from he11.

Yep.  My pwBPD actually has engulfment fears.  I have abandonment fears.  It is really, really not a good match at all, BPD aside. 

[GreenEyedMonster]

Yep.  My pwBPD actually has engulfment fears.  I have abandonment fears.  It is really, really not a good match at all, BPD aside. 

Exactly the same as my situation.  We couldn't have triggered each other's fears more if we had tried.  I think we've both traumatized each other pretty badly.