Breaking up/FWB/discard

[kc sunshine]

It sounds like a lot of us had a similar experience of our exes breaking up with us, then wanting to be FWB, and then ultimately discarding us when they found a replacement. If this was your experience, could you share it with me? It was mine.

It was during the FWB stage that, in codependency terms, "my life became unmanageable." The discard was awful too.

[losingconfidence]

My ex didn't exactly want to be "friends with benefits" since our relationship wasn't too heavy on "benefits" to begin with, but she did seem to want to carry on as if nothing happened but without any label to our relationship after she broke up with me. I think she wanted me to feel like I was "on very thin ice" but like there was still hope for us so that I'd still be trapped in the relationship while she was free to explore other options if she wanted to. I saw it coming and managed to avoid it, but that was mostly because I had seen other people talking about similar things happening to them online.

It sounds like your ex wanted you as an option while you wanted them as your significant other. That's definitely a horrible place to be in.

[Lonely_Astro]

My ex didn't exactly want to be "friends with benefits" since our relationship wasn't too heavy on "benefits" to begin with, but she did seem to want to carry on as if nothing happened but without any label to our relationship after she broke up with me. I think she wanted me to feel like I was "on very thin ice" but like there was still hope for us so that I'd still be trapped in the relationship while she was free to explore other options if she wanted to. I saw it coming and managed to avoid it, but that was mostly because I had seen other people talking about similar things happening to them online.

It sounds like your ex wanted you as an option while you wanted them as your significant other. That's definitely a horrible place to be in.

This is exactly where mine ended up.  She didn't want to be with me, but didn't want to tell me that, so she left me in limbo (I certainly wasn't getting any 'benefits', thats for sure).  It hasn't been until the past few days that I have got a hardline answer (in a round about way) that we are, in fact, over.  She has been seeing a new guy and only mentioned it because she thought I had found out.  Now all the terms she uses is past tense ("we had", etc).  This comes on the heels of her using push/pull wording just last week ("I don't know why I don't feel the same way for you that I did" followed with "but the closeness we had isn't lost for the future".

I wasn't so much approaching it as I wanted to continue a r/s with her as it was I wanted to be firm that we had ended.  Frankly, after being more or less pushed out of her life for 3 months, no reconciliation was going to happen.  I just wanted to make sure that she had moved on before I chose to try to move on too.  I didn't want her coming back into my life if I decided to date anytime soon with some crazy talk about how I "cheated on her" because I was still in a r/s I didn't know about.  I could very well see that happening.

Still, doesn't make it any easier to see that she was playing me up until the end (even though I knew she had been in my gut).  Even after she told me she had been to dinner with someone, she was still hinting that she was interested in me.  Of course, her going on a date was my fault.  She said that I "didn't know what I wanted" and she couldn't sit around and wait for me to figure it out (hello projection, my old friend).  She conveniently 'forgot' that she was the one who pushed me out of her life 3 months ago and refused to see me face to face to talk about it.  Even after she did meet me (after a lot of time of pleading), she left the meeting saying that she didn't want us to be over and that we would figure it out together.  Yet, I was the one who didn't know what I wanted.  Um, ok.  That's BPD.  She claims she didn't start up with the new guy until we were fully over, but she also forgot to send me the memo telling me exactly when that was based off our last conversation of a couple of weeks ago where she wanted us to "figure it out" (code, I guess, for "I'll date other people, you just hang out, OK?".

In the end I know I dodged a bullet with her (again), but it still is painful.

[balletomane]

It sounds like your ex wanted you as an option while you wanted them as your significant other. That's definitely a horrible place to be in.

This was how it was for me. My ex and I continued to be a couple in all but name for over a year after the break-up. In many ways we were closer than we had been as a couple: once the pressure of being in an 'official' relationship had been removed from my ex he seemed to become kinder, less volatile. He kept telling me that I was the most precious person in his life. Then one day he told me out of the blue that he'd got together with his flatmate, and when I started to cry, he said in disbelief, laughing slightly, "We broke up over a year ago." The discard was horrible because he took my reaction as "emotional extortion", manipulative behaviour designed to stop him from being happy. I did try to challenge him on some of the things he did and said during that time, but I don't know what I was realistically expecting - him to apologise for those things? Not going to happen. As far as he's concerned he did nothing wrong. Or maybe he does know he did something wrong and he can't handle the guilt. Either way, he wanted me out of sight and out of mind so he doesn't have to consider the question.

[kc sunshine]

These experience sound so painful and really resonate with mine. So good to have your company-- it helps to make sense that this is a pattern.

[Rockcliffe]

I am currently dealing with it. My husband of 13 years, came to me out of nowhere, said he was done, didn't love me, never has, found someone else, and wants out of the relationship.

It's been a month. To the day.

He started coming around again (we have two kids together) to see the kids, and ends up spending more and more time with me. He started complaining that "my replacement" doesn't like to do certain things in bed. Things, I happen to be "good at" ( You live with a man for that long, you learn what he likes) and because of it, he's having performance issues with her ( this is about when I pulled out the worlds smallest violin for him) But one thing lead to another and he left my house a satisfied man. I know I should be ashamed, but realistically, I'm married to him.

On one hand it brings me great satisfaction to know that he's cheating on his mistress... .with his wife. But on the other hand, it hurts. This man was/is the love of my life, or so I thought. I would love for him to come back and say "lets try again", because like a love sick puppy... .I would. But I feel like 13 years is a long time to just throw away.

Ever since he started coming by to see the kids, and get some alone time with me, I feel like our relationship has gotten better. And that's his pattern (this is the third time I've been through this. Sans new GF)

So yeah... .Mine is doing the same thing too. Only he's not using me until he finds a replacement, he's sleeping with me behind her back.

I'm getting it backwards with him. Discard/FWB/?

[donotunderstand]

I feel you all in this position. The same thing happend to me. We had push/pull time. He said really bad thing to me, did bad things to me, so I went from his appartment, to say I can't stand it. He would call me back, we spent the whole weekend together, talked about. And the next morning I found out he's cheating me with some ald co-worker, someone who he knew for a years. He was dating her, going with her on a drinks. He would say her our intimate things, ask her for our relationship. He said he needed someone neutral to talk about our relationship! What? Please, ... .

After that day, I broke up with him, I new this isn't just the drink with her, and after 3 weeks he wrote me long letter on e-mail, to appologise me for everything he did to me, and he is involved into the relationship with this woman, he was dating. I'm still so sad about that, he could cheat on me. He would always say to me, he can't do this, he isn't a cheater. And it hurts so much still. It si 7 weeks of our brake up, 3 weeks of NC. I cry every day, today all the day. How could I fall in love in such a guy? We were 2 years together, planned kids, I had an abortus, because baby wasn't ok, so we went true this bad time. I can't imagine everything happend so fast, from the beggining till the end.

Why is it hurts so much still? When comes the moment, I will be able to say I'm ok, that my heart will be whole again?

[Tommytwo]

This is when the BPD exercises their power and sinks their fangs. They "know" your status with them has been devalued yet they manipulate you to stay. They plant the seed that maybe the love can be rekindled, if you just hang around and serve whatever purpose they have for you. Meanwhile , like Sherman marching through Georgia they are creating destruction elsewhere and creating various partner orbits. A BPD can create quite a number of solar systems... All the while you are but a Pluto that is visited now and then. Think of them as interstellar travelers.  No wonder its difficult for them to remember their last visit to your planet.

[thisworld]

It didn't happen to me that way, I wanted FBW, he insisted on monogamy. I ended the relationship and I believe that because he is very dysfunctional he would be sticking around for a while, and turn my life into hell with triangulations.

Still, I think wanting to be FWB, seeking replacements and discarding are actually the most rational behaviours I can see from a BPD person with low executive control and sexual impulsivity. I don't for a second believe that people like our exes (I wouldn't know about the ones in the staying forum) are able to offer real intimacy to anyone, neither are they capable of a calm, serene life without drama and chaos. FWB seems a more suitable relationship form. Replacements and discards also show that we don't exist for them as whole  persons. In this sense, I think we were crazy for getting into a relationship with them (or their symptoms didn't appear until later but we know the reality now). We should really hear, see and accept what they want and what they do. I think it's even more irrational for them to want proper relationships given the present state of their disorder, this way it seems more coherent. I mean, us or them wanting to be in a relationship with them seems like the most problematic aspect of this dynamic sometimes.

[Lonely_Astro]

It didn't happen to me that way, I wanted FBW, he insisted on monogamy. I ended the relationship and I believe that because he is very dysfunctional he would be sticking around for a while, and turn my life into hell with triangulations.

Still, I think wanting to be FWB, seeking replacements and discarding are actually the most rational behaviours I can see from a BPD person with low executive control and sexual impulsivity. I don't for a second believe that people like our exes (I wouldn't know about the ones in the staying forum) are able to offer real intimacy to anyone, neither are they capable of a calm, serene life without drama and chaos. FWB seems a more suitable relationship form. Replacements and discards also show that we don't exist for them as whole  persons. In this sense, I think we were crazy for getting into a relationship with them (or their symptoms didn't appear until later but we know the reality now). We should really hear, see and accept what they want and what they do. I think it's even more irrational for them to want proper relationships given the present state of their disorder, this way it seems more coherent. I mean, us or them wanting to be in a relationship with them seems like the most problematic aspect of this dynamic sometimes.

Drawing from my experience, J would never accept a FWB r/s.  Would it be a good arrangement?  Yes.  Why?  No deep emotional connection, yet needs are met.  So, really a FWB r/s would be a perfect arrangement for us.  Except, J has always believed that's all anyone wants from her: what's between her legs (her words, not mine).  Even when I proved time and again (she always seemed to put obstacles in my path) that wasn't the case, it didn't matter.

J would often say something to the effect of no one wanted her they just wanted her physically.  I doubt this was true from most (not all) of her romantic partners.  I think they honestly wanted a r/s but J saw them as horny teenage boys because frankly that's as far as she's developed emotionally (she often would remind me of a teen).  When I began to see her more and more like a 16 year old girl than an almost 30 woman, I actually practically lost my desire for her at the end because of her "teenager" behaviors.

Anyway, I suspect that most BPs want a true r/s but the disorder wins in the end.  They literally can't help but hurt people and themselves.  I'm not saying they should be forgiven for their actions, no.  They know right from wrong like everyone.  I just don't think most would accept that sort of arrangement because they would view it as being "used".  Remember, it's ok for them to use you, but you can't use them.

[thisworld]

Anyway, I suspect that most BPs want a true r/s but the disorder wins in the end.  They literally can't help but hurt people and themselves.  I'm not saying they should be forgiven for their actions, no.  They know right from wrong like everyone.  I just don't think most would accept that sort of arrangement because they would view it as being "used".  Remember, it's ok for them to use you, but you can't use them.

I know that they want it and when they want it, they are genuine about it. At the very same time, they want things that contradict with what that relationship naturally entails, and they want them genuinely, too. However, without any perception for long-term coherence (sadly long-term here means not starting to flirt with any female when your partner is two-minutes away, or not starting to badmouth her online to other women when she leaves the dinner table to go to the toilet) this word "want" obviously doesn't signify what I necessarily understand from it. And I don't have to ignore a whole world of meanings, truths, valuable human action simply because the BPD ex is outside that framework. He wants a relationship, I want a relationship, we don't want the same thing. It's neither my fault nor my responsibility that he is unable to close the gap between what he does and what he wants.

Of course they don't want FWB, it means freedom for both partners and we exist outside their control zones. I think they would want FBW only as a "crumble" for us that keeps us attached when they are in search of replacements.

 

[troisette]

Mine was a push/pull over several months. He'd always said we could not continue if we had an argument.

We did argue on holiday, and we both agreed it should end. Although I was devastated. And I'm not sure if he thought he had an emotional hostage. We got home and when returning keys he said we could never get  back together again. I agreed, saying I'd never be able to trust him with my emotional well being.

He then tried to get me into bed. I said I would not do FWB. This seductive push/pull continued for several months, I always refused FWB. I was an emotional wreck but instinctually knew that to re-establish intimacy would be disastrous for me, even though I longed to. I was always hoping that he'd want a reconciliation even though I knew something was wrong with him. This was before I knew about BPD. I was so messed up I was hardly functioning. Can hardly believe how bad it was when I look back.

He invited me to dinner at his place, I gave it some thought and conferred with a close friend. Went to dinner, a lovely evening. He'd set the stage for intimacy. Listening to poetry with his head in my lap, I was watchful but still longing for a reconciliation although I knew he was bad for me. Then I asked the question: "What do you want for us?"

When asked an adult question, he immediately reverted to a confused and angry child. He said he didn't know; that we could never get back together again. I told him that I wanted to go forward in my life and in order to do so, I must leave him behind. Thanked him for the lovely times, he thanked me for being in his life and I left. A short conversation the following morning when he was frantic to stay friends. I said not. Breaking up inside.

I returned his stuff a couple of weeks after the dinner, his attitude to me was sarcastically hostile. "Thanks darlin'"

I instigated total NC four months ago and it's the best thing. Although it's difficult as we live in close proximity and that has its own strains.

Those months of seductive push/pull were the worst time of my life; ever.

And Tommytwo - you're absolutely right.

[Lonely_Astro]

Mine was a push/pull over several months. He'd always said we could not continue if we had an argument.

We did argue on holiday, and we both agreed it should end. Although I was devastated. And I'm not sure if he thought he had an emotional hostage. We got home and when returning keys he said we could never get  back together again. I agreed, saying I'd never be able to trust him with my emotional well being.

He then tried to get me into bed. I said I would not do FWB. This seductive push/pull continued for several months, I always refused FWB. I was an emotional wreck but instinctually knew that to re-establish intimacy would be disastrous for me, even though I longed to. I was always hoping that he'd want a reconciliation even though I knew something was wrong with him. This was before I knew about BPD. I was so messed up I was hardly functioning. Can hardly believe how bad it was when I look back.

He invited me to dinner at his place, I gave it some thought and conferred with a close friend. Went to dinner, a lovely evening. He'd set the stage for intimacy. Listening to poetry with his head in my lap, I was watchful but still longing for a reconciliation although I knew he was bad for me. Then I asked the question: "What do you want for us?"

When asked an adult question, he immediately reverted to a confused and angry child. He said he didn't know; that we could never get back together again. I told him that I wanted to go forward in my life and in order to do so, I must leave him behind. Thanked him for the lovely times, he thanked me for being in his life and I left. A short conversation the following morning when he was frantic to stay friends. I said not.

I returned his stuff a couple of weeks after the dinner, his attitude to me was sarcastically hostile. "Thanks darlin'"

I instigated total NC four months ago and it's the best thing. Although it's difficult as we live in close proximity and that has its own strains.

Those months of seductive push/pull were the worst time of my life; ever.

J in the final week of us talking did the same thing.  She was lucid, it seemed, and talked openly about the past year.  She was more open and truthful than I had seen from her in a long time.  I began questioning my resolve to cut contact with her because of it.  I had a moment where I thought that DBT may had taken hold and she was 'getting better'.

But, sometimes, right in the middle of an emotional adult conversation, she would bring up something about us being physical.  Not in a mean way, just out of the blue in context to what we were discussing.  At one point, she had mentioned it several times, and she asked me if I was going to be available after work.  I told her I wasn't going to be.  The reason I did that was because I felt she wanted to come over and seduce me into sticking around.  I could've been totally wrong, but it just seemed that way to me because she had mentioned how great we were together (in that way) so much during our conversation.  Maybe she was wanting to just talk, but it just didn't feel that way to me.  Sometimes I regret not agreeing to see her (whether it was to talk or to sleep together just once more).  But, c'est la vie.

Personally, I can't imagine what it must be like to live with BPD.  I certainly know what it's like having a BPD in your life. 

[troisette]

That's why I was so wary Astro when,  at the beginning of December, he put a formal Christmas card, with a semi-formal note, along with a pendant "lost" at his house many months before, through my letterbox. Still not sure if he was trying to re-establish contact on his terms or genuinely returning it.

His terms were always very important to him... .

Thankfully we don't have BPD, co-existing with it scrambled my brain... . 

[Lonely_Astro]

That's why I was so wary Astro when,  at the beginning of December, he put a formal Christmas card, with a semi-formal note, along with a pendant "lost" at his house many months before, through my letterbox. Still not sure if he was trying to re-establish contact on his terms or genuinely returning it.

His terms were always very important to him... .

Thankfully we don't have BPD, co-existing with it scrambled my brain... . 

That's part of the issue... .you never know what their intention is/was.  Maybe he was genuinely missing you, maybe he was trying to re-establish contact.  Who really knows. 

J stayed in contact with me up until the 1st.  It was tearing me apart 'leaving' her, even though she 'left' me in early October.  I had been in limbo (though I guess I was grieving her during that time as well) with her until mid-Dec when I forced a conversation about knowing where we stood with each other.  I around the same time found out she has been on a couple of dates with someone, so that pretty much showed me where we stood.  It was (and still is) painful.  She sent me a happy New Years text and I responded in kind (a couple of hours later).  That was the last text conversation we had. 

As of yesterday, I can certainly tell that I'm split black.  She fully sees it as I left her and I used her over the past year (and I'm sure she feels completely justified in what all she did to me this year because "I was always going to leave anyway".  I know, for a fact, she felt (at times) I was using her because she told me so.  It perturbed me that she had felt this way and stayed silent.  She also conveniently 'forgot' that she used me (a lot, as it turned out) this year too.  At no point this year did I use her (at least I don't feel like I did).  But, apparently I did.

Anyway, she's moved on (all the signs that she has a new fix is there).  I'm moving on (something she's mad about, btw) too, because I have/need to.  It's not easy, of course, but I know I need to.

[troisette]

Yes, Astro, that limbo is so painful. But it does get more tolerable with strict NC. Week by week I feel slight improvements. It's my belief that NC is better than LC or grey rock. For me it provides a feeling that I am determining my life, rather than his push/pull.

We live in a small town, six streets apart and all the local groups of friends and acquaintances are within a one mile radius. So far I've not seen him apart from one distant sighting but I have seen others. I have no idea if I am split black to his friends, and to my surprise, I don't really care.

We are who we are, if we are happy with our behaviour we can rise above. People who are worth knowing will not judge us by an ex painting us black. Yes, there might be some tittle tattle but today's gossip is tomorrow's garbage. I also believe that time tells all. I also know, from experience, that this is easier typed than experienced but I am trying for stoicism. 

There is a Chinese proverb:

"If you wait by the river long enough, you'll see the  bodies of all of your enemies float by."

There's a dual meaning: yes, you might see their downfall but do you want to waste your life sitting by the river watching for their metaphorical bodies?

We have to heal, I wish it didn't take so long but I know, from past experience with a narcissist, that I will. Once healed whether we are split black or white, it will be meaningless to us.