Once a cheater always a cheater?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Do we all agree that once a cheater, always a cheater with these people? I have heard some say their exes weren't that into sex... .The ones that cheat seem to have done it allot! I have found out about at least 6 women my husband was with during our relationship... .After the separation apparently there were 3 more he told me about. I have been told he was always chasing someone at work whether to not he got with them... .He cheated on the  current gf with me for gosh sakes! Why do I keep thinking he is suddenly not cheating on her now? She works for the same business as him and her friends could tell her. The weird thing is that   a couple her friends on face book know he is a cheater, one of them is the one that was in my bed 2014 Xmas! Why she is now friends with the two of them after she told me he lied to her and she didn't want anything to do with him, I don't know unless she is watching the train wreck too! Why, why, why, do I think he is trying to not cheat on her, since she is pregnant? Is it possible for someone like him not to? Does anyone know of a cheater or serial cheater who stopped?  

[Herodias]

Do we all agree that once a cheater, always a cheater with these people? I have heard some say their exes weren't that into sex... .The ones that cheat seem to have done it allot! I have found out about at least 6 women my husband was with during our relationship... .After the separation apparently there were 3 more he told me about. I have been told he was always chasing someone at work whether to not he got with them... .He cheated on the  current gf with me for gosh sakes! Why do I keep thinking he is suddenly not cheating on her now? She works for the same business as him and her friends could tell her. The weird thing is that   a couple her friends on face book know he is a cheater, one of them is the one that was in my bed 2014 Xmas! Why she is now friends with the two of them after she told me he lied to her and she didn't want anything to do with him, I don't know unless she is watching the train wreck too! Why, why, why, do I think he is trying to not cheat on her, since she is pregnant? Is it possible for someone like him not to? Does anyone know of a cheater or serial cheater who stopped?  

[Itstopsnow]

The cheating is a byproduct of their illness or disorder should I say? He won't stop cheating because it is his way of coping with abandonment and engulfment fears, plus they love the thrill they get when they start to feel empty, low and depressed . They are far worse than an average scumbag cheater, because they won't stop because in a sense they can't stop . They don't have adult coping skills to handle life anyway else

[thisworld]

Do we all agree that once a cheater, always a cheater with these people?   

Do we distinguish between emotional cheating and physical cheating or are we talking about physical cheating only?

[Herodias]

I would say physical... .In my husbands case, the emotional leads to physical. (FYI_I can't call him my ex because we are still married... .I guess I need to call him my STBX, but I have no idea when we are getting divorced- I feel in limbo) So, Itstopsnow, do you believe they only do it when they are feeling certain ways or are they always searching for someone else... ?

[once removed]

Herodias,

its really impossible to know, whether he is cheating on her, might cheat on her, whether or not he wont cheat on her, whether or not hes going to change his behavior. thats a lot of thought spent on a what if that wont really effect you one way or another.

the hurt and devastation, the shock you have endured upon learning there were at least six other women, that really cant be understated. i dont consider myself a naive guy, and to discover that my ex likely cheated multiple times was a pretty big shock to me, and really made me doubt my own trust in myself.

i get the feeling thats what youre asking. youre wondering if his behavior (cheating) was unique to you, or if it will continue in his future relationship(s).

his cheating was not your fault. im pretty black and white in my attitude that there is never an excuse for cheating. whether he cheats in the future or doesnt really has no bearing on you or your recovery. it says nothing about you.

having said that: you say you found out about at least six women. that suggests a compulsion. you say that he has already cheated on her, with you. that pretty well answers your question, i think.

their relationship, what her friends are doing on facebook, thats a lot of drama, and youre putting a lot of thought and energy into it; i dont see this focus helping you. is there a way you can begin to focus further on yourself?

[Itstopsnow]

I believe it can be a combination of both. They are disregulated a lot so it's hard to say what motivates them. They seem to thrive in chaos. And if your hubby was like my ex I'm sure the cheating is something pretty steady . I was with my all the time so I don't think he had too many second girlfriends except for that one when he was getting ready to discard me. He tried dating her for 3 weeks or so last December . But didn't start being a "couple" till the end of June . We broke up August. But there were plenty of times when if we fought he would want to stop talking for 3 or 4 days . I assumed it was a cool down and not a break but now I realize he was dating then. It's more about their need to survive than it is about sex or the actual person. They attach to anyone fast and they lose interest just as fast. It's one of their hallmark traits. Impulsivity, reckless behavior, sexual promiscuity

[thisworld]

In my ex's case, he was a reformed physical cheater, even if it was temporary. We had a brief relationship anyway. I know that he didn't cheat physically in our relationship - I think he was seriously too dysfunctional for that in the sense that he was high most of the time, he was dependent on me and also we were together almost 24/7 in a holiday resort town. However, under different circumstances, I feel that he would cheat. In his previous relationship (3 years), he says he didn't cheat but would cheat. In both of these emotional cheating was everywhere. In all his relationships before, he cheated or didn't technically "cheat" but for instance, decided to divorce his then wife immediately because he wanted to be with someone in a matter of minutes after they met and gave his then wife a phone call informing her about this divorce - this lack of executive control is perceived as honesty and loyalty by him. He thinks he was a very loyal husband because he didn't cheat before that phone call!

At this point in his sexual history - mid-thirties- he seems to be more proud of "loyalty" as his identity, almost markets this. This may be because it works better with women who can offer him a certain level of financial comfort and provide him with a different kind of narcissistic supply. Most women in this profile have come out of their first marriages and are fed up with Casanovas already, so this may be better currency nowadays for him until he feels really secure in the relationship. He has sort of developed a system where he is releasing tension with triangulations, online things etc and has found a "balance" between this need for sexual attention and keeping a woman at home. However, it's so obvious, so obvious that he expects this grand gratitude for this. Because he doesn't cheat physically, you have to accept everything else because guess whaat, he isn't physically cheating. Does he want to inject drugs? You should have no problem with this because he isn't cheating! Does he want to fill your life with triangulations and exes? What's your problem, he is with you and he isn't cheating! Is he sexually abusive. That happens, but he isn't cheating, is he! (All this openly articulated in different instances:)) After a while, a man cheating silently and not bringing it up started to seem preferable, twisted really.

[Herodias]

yes, except mine watches allot of TV when he is home. He is 34.  Mine would work 50 hours a week, but would always lie about his hours so he could gaslight me about when he was working... .always was "changing his schedule"... .He was dating the Xmas woman and wanted to divorce me... but when she found out he was a liar, he had to find someone else. This one happened to be working with him again after they were written up at work and separated. I guess it was "forbidden" so made it more fun! I thought we would get back together like we always did too. The pregnancy changed that. I had hoped that my leaving would get him to get the help he needed. Didn't happen. I know it is best for me. I think he is bored with her now like you said, losing interest fast. I would think she would;t be in the mood for all of his "attention seeking" either at this point. I just wish I knew he was cheating, I suppose it would make me feel justified. I am sure he will do it... .it's a matter of time. He is known at work to be a womanizer. I suppose she thinks that she is different and they are so in love and were meant to be together, that's why they had their affair and left their spouses. Whatever!

[zeus123]

cheating is one of their traits, they have to cheat it's self fulfilling prophecy!

[snappybrowneyes]

Herodias,

their relationship, what her friends are doing on facebook, thats a lot of drama, and youre putting a lot of thought and energy into it; i dont see this focus helping you. is there a way you can begin to focus further on yourself?

Excellent advice Once removed. . If you have made the decision that being without him is best for you then constantly thinking and wondering about him only keeps you stuck. You can speak through your attorneys for your divorce, no need to interact with him at all at this point.  Not all people are the same and not all BPD are the same. If dating a person with BPD is a deal breaker for you then honestly none of the other stuff matters. There are people that recover from BPD but are you willing to chance it? If not then it doesn't really matter if they are happy or not because YOU have chosen not to date/marry someone with BPD.

[NCEA]

My 9 years ex histrionic cheated, I discovered it only afterwards. Before we broke up I would have put all my money on a bet, saying she would have never done it. It was so out of my reality because of how she presented herself to me. You can literally not trust anyone.

[hope2727]

I am sorry you are going through this. It is the ultimate betrayal of trust to cheat. It shakes our believe system to its core. Everything we thought we knew we suddenly question. It is the ultimate form of abuse. There was a really good article on it and I thought it was on this web page but I can't for the life of me find it now. So I will give you this link to read as it is an excellent website to explore when you have a moment.

www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/The_Con/compartmentalization.html

But here is the summary of the concept.

Cheating is lying repeatedly with forethought and planning ... .that is abusive.

Cheating is exposing your partner to STDs... .that is abusive.

Cheating is using marital finances for outside secret relationships... .that is abusive.

Cheating is a betrayal of a partners emotional security... .that is abusive.

Cheating is a CHOICE! It is not mistake or an accident. A mistake is spilling milk, breaking your partners favourite cup, or forgetting to pay a bill. An accident is tripping and skinning your knee, dinging the car door on a shopping cart, or catching your partners fingers in the cupboard door. Cheaters do not mistake someone else for you when they are making plans to meet them. They do not mistakenly kiss the wrong person. They do not slip, and fall, and land on a set of opposite sex genitals. They choose consciously to make a series of decisions to have sex with another person. All of this is abuse. None of it is your fault.

So will he do it again? Yup. He would need lots and lots of therapy with the goal of not needing to be in control but instead allowing a give and take cooperative relationship where both parties worked toward the betterment of the other. Does this sound like him? I know its hard to hear and I am sorry but he wants what he wants when he wants it at any cost. He will not change until there is lots and lots of therapy involved. Has he done lots and lots of therapy? Has he accepted his responsibility for the actions he has taken in the past? Has he understood and articulated the consequences those actions had on other people? Has he reached out to make sincere amends for the harm those actions have caused? Has he done so without any expectation of forgiveness or any other benefit for himself? No? Then nope he hasn't changed. He is still all about himself and meeting his wants and needs. He is about his comfort and image and happiness. So nope he hasn't changed. Therefore when the stimulus is large enough he will CHOOSE to do whatever he wants again. Wether it is an emotional affair or physical or both it is just a matter of time.

My first husband cheated within our first year together. It was over by the time I found out. He appeared to feel terrible. I forgave him and we spend 11 more years together. Then I found out he had been cheating again. He wanted to stay together so we started counselling. Then I found out he was still talking to her every night. So not ok.  You shouldn't have to tell an adult what is and is not appropriate behaviour. They know right from wrong. They choose wrong. The end.  After the marriage ended in a flaming ball of poop I discovered he had been involved with other women along the years. Yuck. Here I was busting my butt to support us and he was off spending his money ( I made way more) on other women. Here I was loving him with all my heart and he was giving his love to other people. Here I was having sex with him and he was exposing me to STDs. Gross                   

My exfiancee with BPD cheated while he was away for work in our first year together. He was only gone 65 days. We face timed daily. He had opportunities to come home during that time and chose to go hang out at a beach instead. He told people there we weren't engaged. He told them I was pressuring him into marriage. What a joke. It was basically the compete opposite. He claimed they only kissed yeah right.  He came home and was soo happy. He went to counselling and minimized his horrible acts. Then he started the lies to our friends here. He compartmentalized me from his friends and my own. He said horrible things about me that weren't even remotely true. So yes here we go again. When he had his final rage and left me he took another woman away for the weekend the very next day. Hmmmm suspicious? yup. He is now living with yet another victim. I sometimes hear from friends that they suspect its going the same way. The excessive spending and emotional affairs are already beginning. His over the top drippy behaviour is starting again. Always a sign he is acting the ass to her in private. 

So there you go two cheaters who cheated over and over. Shall I tell you about my father? Almost 40 years of marriage and 5 kids and who knows how many affairs. His father was exactly the same. So without gory details there are two more examples.

How about my girlfriend. She's been married 3 times, always rich men, always finds the next one before leaving the previous. She has cheated on the current one already. I told her end it or I will inform him ( he is a really nice guy). She did. Two years later all kinds of FB posts of other guys and husband in none o f the photos. Hmmmm I think a phone call may be in order.

So yes a leopard doesn't change its spots. Cheaters will cheat again and again and again. I have always said people who cheat, cheat. People who don't, don't. The end. Its just a matter of time.

Its really hard to accept that it had NOTHING to do with us and everything to do with them. The new girl isn't better or richer or prettier or different. She was just a soother for his endless miserable internal existence. Until he looks inside and deals with that it will happen again and again. Besides how many more hits of his abuse can you take? How many more betrayals, lies, debts, heartaches can you take? None I suspect.

I had no idea I would write so much when I started this response. I too am waiting of the replacement to go down in flames I guess. Validation of our own sort I suppose. Maybe we have to look inside for that validation. Maybe its time to forget about them and remember how wonderful we are.   

Ok I am going to shut it now. I am thinking of you. Hug hun. 

[Herodias]

Hope2727, thank you for writing so much! Your story helps me see he won't change. No, he never sticks with counseling and certainly hasn't dealt with his issues. I know I shouldn't care about what goes on with him, but I don't see how he went from my being the love of his life and he'll die for me. To having a baby with someone else. Had he gotten help with his issues and stopped some of this bad behavior I wouldn't have left him. The BPD doesn't scare me... .The horrible actions do. I have my own "drama" issues due to my past and I am working on that. I'm sure that's part of my addiction to what is going on. Plus, pure wanting validation.

[Learning_curve74]

I just wish I knew he was cheating, I suppose it would make me feel justified.

What about the six women he cheated with while you were married? That wasn't justification enough to ditch him, now you need him to be cheating on his current partner?

As for saying you wouldn't have left him except for his horrible behavior, isn't that like saying you wouldn't have gotten rid of your car except for it kept breaking down?

I agree with everything once removed wrote. You can't work on him, you can only work on yourself. What does the picture of a healthy good life look to you? And what things do you think you need to do to live that life?

[once removed]

Plus, pure wanting validation.

this, i think, is exactly where you should turn your focus Herodias.

this is a place where youll get plenty of validation. i offer you no shortage of validation, what youve been through is immensely painful, i understand. im here for you, we all are.

if we are not careful, we can rely too much on excessive validation. others can get caught up in it which fuels the drama cycle. this can keep us stuck. it feels good, when we are hurting, to have lots of people around us building us up and telling us our ex is bad. to a certain extent, it is good.

your fear seems to be that he wont cheat. where you can begin to turn to the focus to you is to ask yourself what if your fear came true? what if he didnt cheat? would that say something about you? would it reflect on you as a person or your worth? would that mean you deserved what he did? the answer to those questions is a definitive NO. and thats validation, too.

part of taking good care of ourselves and loving ourselves is also learning to validate ourselves. what is clear is that this person was not right for you. if his behavior is different in some way, if he never cheats again, it really changes nothing. if his relationship fails (its not off to a great start) and he fails, it really changes nothing. at the end of the day he wasnt just not right for you, he was wrong for you. thats what matters here, Herodias; you and the better future youre building without him. 

[NCEA]

I find it hard to believe that a man who cheated won't do it again. You must understand that people who do these things don't lie only to their partners, they lie first and foremost to themselves, justifying it on one way or another. That as a man "I'm allowed", that "it's just sex" or that "it's just this once" or "I'm sure my partner cheats too".

A week ago I had dinner with a friend and one moment he told me how he slept with six girls in the last two weeks while visiting London from Australia, cheating on his girl.

Ten minutes later he's talking about how "girls can look you in the eye and lie to your face " " because girls are like that".

I think the guy is disordered himself to be honest.

I confronted him about it and he flat out said "yes I have a double standard" and that was the end of the discussion.

anyway the point is, once a cheater, always a cheater. People who can't control themselves once probably won't be able to do it later, and even if they would, it would be at great pain, going against their deep desires.

The only option is radical honesty. I'd rather be alone until the rest of my life but keep true to my values and authentic self.

[snappybrowneyes]

So will he do it again? Yup. He would need lots and lots of therapy with the goal of not needing to be in control but instead allowing a give and take cooperative relationship where both parties worked toward the betterment of the other. Does this sound like him? I know its hard to hear and I am sorry but he wants what he wants when he wants it at any cost. He will not change until there is lots and lots of therapy involved. Has he done lots and lots of therapy? Has he accepted his responsibility for the actions he has taken in the past? Has he understood and articulated the consequences those actions had on other people? Has he reached out to make sincere amends for the harm those actions have caused? Has he done so without any expectation of forgiveness or any other benefit for himself? No? Then nope he hasn't changed. He is still all about himself and meeting his wants and needs. He is about his comfort and image and happiness. So nope he hasn't changed. Therefore when the stimulus is large enough he will CHOOSE to do whatever he wants again. Wether it is an emotional affair or physical or both it is just a matter of time.


Hope2727 You pointed out some very key points: Has the person done everything possible to change their behavior? Not just say sorry but make a true concerted effort to change... .proof through actions? That is the key! People can say one thing and never follow through but when their actions match their words over and over a pattern of good behavior emerges. Then and only then will their be proof of a true change because we know that actions speak FAR louder than words!  

[Pretty Woman]

Mine actually told me she cheated on her exes. I knew her entire crazy story BEFORE dating her.

Thing is this... .like many of you, I felt I was "different". I was her knight in shining armor. What I did not realize is how great her exes really are. I know some of them now... .we were all duped and all portrayed as the bad guy. Portrayed as rapists, stalkers, sex addicts.

Well then how come three months into our relationship she is calling the sex addict for help on fixing my electrical?

Many of them cheat because they need to be "saved" they are the victim of their nutso perceived slights against them. They victimize themselves for sympathy. They make you look like a villain to ensnare their next victim.

Once Removed is right. It shouldn't matter, maybe they will cheat with the next, maybe they won't but I would hedge a bet that past behavior is a strong predicator of future. Mine cheated on ALL her exes including her ex husband. Even if she were to miraculously change overnight it would be hard to believe someone could go from having no morals and standards for 45yrs to all of a sudden becoming an angelic, wholesome, sweet and loving person... .no words I would ever use to describe my ex or what I went through.

PW