Long term relationships

[blackbirdsong]

Something "scares" me when I read stories on this board.

A lot of people here describe their long term relationships with (u/d)BPD partners. Often the description goes something like this:

"We were married X years. First Y years were great, we were in loved and happy. Next Z years were awful."

I am just wondering about your "happy" years. How do you define this? I mean, I am wondering did you notice BPD traits in those years or not? If yes - why do you define them as "happy" years? Because they were less intensive or you tolerated them more?

My story: I wasn't too long in relationship with dBPD, 4 months only. I still have emotions for her, but I ended r/s because it was too emotionally exhaustive for me and I lost trust in her (not that this was an easy decision for me, definitely not). She is very high functioning BPD. Now I see traits of BPD from beginning, and I also think there were great periods of our relationship but don't idealize them as I did in the beginning because I see unhealthy behavior from her side and me tolerating it.

So, the scary part for me (and my question) is the fact that someone can prolong BPD behavior so long (like for X years) before it gets too bad?

What do you think about this?

[Dutched]

Blackbirdsong

Short question, but it became a long answer… many years

I was one of those in a long r/s, 30+ yrs. in fact. Undiagnosed (refused treatment a 2-3 yrs. before the end) and very High Functioning too, holding good positions.

Going way back, the first sign was that exw. in an uncontrollable outburst dumped her parents/family and didn’t wanted contact for almost a decade. Also her friends were dumped.

In hindsight, not healthy…  but (not a but as excuse) who in those days had resources, access to info about behaviour, even thought about a mental illness in such a case? A professional, not even a family doctor had any knowledge. And many yrs. before a consumer would have access to the internet. Those days I mean.

Memories were suppressed, ‘couldn’t be remembered’, in her diary they could… parents were totally split black.

From the beginning I talked for hours and days with exw when she was upset, even about small matters of which I in the beginning really didn’t understand why the heck one could get upset about it.

Later I focussed on reading her eyes! They spoke and not hiding was possible anymore. That in a way scared her (as expressed by her) and also gave her comfort as I ‘felt’ her mood.

We grew together, had really a good time for many years, had fun, went out, attended posh receptions etc. All seemed ok, seemed, as contact with friends (hers) ‘strangely’ stopped after longer periods of no contact. In her job exw was successful, but wanted to stop several times, what I prevented by that talking and talking as mentioned before Yes, another red one.

Those yrs. summarized: a ‘weird’ dumping of her parents/family, we grew together, had a wonderful time and all was seemingly all right, more or less dormant yrs. in fact.   

Changing the game. After D was born, the upheaval began (known is that birth, etc. can cause severe and intense emotions for a BPD)  D was hers! She knew and felt what D needed, etc. She protected her precious => the Ring, Smeagull?

The trigger(as out of my diaries since the beginning of that r/s):  Contact between exw and her parents were re-established for about 2 yrs. In those days her father became terminal ill and died before our D was 1 yr. old. Grieve, intense grieve with exw for that loss as she was her father’s ‘favorite’ (her father was less split black all these yrs. that her mother).

Exw’s conscience got a wake up call, the burden, the crosses she carried all these yrs. were felt. Expressing it by: ‘now I will have to be there for my mom all my live!’ exw kept her word… all these yrs!

But it costs me the women I knew, the mother of my D and later of my S. Exw wasn’t happy anymore, began to show her darkness more and more, lashed out towards kids in which I had to stop her numerous times. Exw justifying her behaviour even with expressing ‘they WILL have to learn as I want it!’ WOW! That was the woman I married, have 2 kids with, I love, the woman that can’t validate kids, can’t show empathy when she is upset, etc? 

Life carried on, kids take a lot of time and effort. Did my tasks and focused a lot on the wellbeing of my kids, playing, being sports coach, going to shows and exhibitions, supporting with homework AND validating/supporting every where were mother failed, etc.

Mother who began to focus more and more on her social face in our village... .neglecting 'us'. "you must be very lucky to have such a woman", as once said to me... .I just looked... .

We had (from my point of view) still a very good time together. The good out weighted the very bad outbursts that began a 10 yrs. before the end.

Please keep also in mind that hormones begin to change starting when women are in their fourties, (pre) memo pause; add that to their emotional skin and a disaster will come your way…

Despite that every 3 to 5 months outburst I fought and fought. Yes questioning my own sanity, needed a Psychologist, found out about BPD/cluster B, learned etc. and even ‘managed’ to canalise her behaviour and minimize outburst to once a yr.

Exw on the other hand began to act with severe kicking my boundaries as I always had/showed and for which showed respect as I am very consistent.   

Ewx refused however for that intensified destructive behaviour treatment. Well, as known the higher functioning seemingly more outward traits of Narcissism.

And still in those last 10 yrs. I wanted to grow old together… but I also predicted the end to her, not the day, and the way she would do it (dumping in a blink of an eye), a day the same as what she did to her parents/family.

It is a slow, very slow and process that you (at least of what I experienced) can’t see when you are part of that circle, the process go’s unconsciously, even eats you up unconsciously.

Still the vow, the kids, the future, the love and yes the good times when it is good, all prevailed and no consideration of giving that up. Reason why I learned, attended many local meetings and found this Board and lessons back in 2007 already (as a reader only, not contributing).   

Compare it with the normality of having a smart phone and being connected 24/7 with the world. Unthinkable not that long ago.  In hindsight many ways questioning for years why I could coop with that ‘normality’.

Anyway the downfall of ex is completed.

The downgrade in r/s, as may others describe too, and even as I predicted her when she left the house, became reality.

Reality also the ‘dynamics’ in that r/s as I hear from her ‘intimae’ of which exw doesn’t know that we have contact.

[blackbirdsong]

I understand. In my case it really helped that she said to me that she is in therapy (but not for BPD)

She even mentioned one time that one therapist diagnosed BPD, but she didn't see signs for this (!).

So, I could look it up when I recognized strange behavior.

But something that my therapist said to me: "What would happened if you didn't know about BPD? Would you continue to tolerate abuse? For how long? Why?"

And this is the main question. You also mentioned that in the past even doctors didn't know about BPD. But why is formal diagnose even important? The real question is why did we tolerate this kind of behavior? And this is a question everyone here needs to ask himself.

[joeramabeme]

BlackBirdSong - Great question and one that I think, at least for me, is explained well via escalating fear of abandonment as intimacy grows.

I was in r/s for 14 years and married 11.  I too asked those questions about red flags that I missed at the beginning.  Yes, they were there, but nothing so out of proportion to the rest of the person that I was with that I got scared away.  In addition to observing some of her traits; I was also fully aware that I came with my own emotionally unresolved stuff and so expected a certain degree of it from whoever I was to be with.  We openly discussed all of it and got married telling each other that we would never stop working on ourselves.

You asked how could someone have withstood all of the abuse etc. early in the r/s?  I did not, it really wasn't all that present.  Further, since I had my own abandonment issues playing out alongside hers we were each playing off one another - to some degree.  But perhaps one of the primary differences between the two of us was that the closer we became the more I was comforted by the closeness while I think the same closeness for her exacerbated the fears. (Ultimately this is really all about control - fear of getting consumed - lack of self-trust)

In the beginning, when she projected her feelings and blamed me, it seemed to fit what I knew about myself.  But as more time went by and I had addressed some of my own stuff and was questioning her more frequently about her own behaviors, the finger pointing became more intense.  By this point we were married and deep in life-planning mode.  I was heavily invested in the success of the marriage and of course loved her deeply. 

My increased self-awareness and willingness to say what I saw happening was, I believe, a source that created escalating fears about abandonment and what happened to her in her FOO. And of course, I am no angel and had my own negative reactions and responses to all of this which further escalated her fears through my own behaviors. And this in turn brought about more concerns for me and round-and-round we went.

In short, the process of decline was progressive and I think at some point intensified beyond what was comfortable. 

It was almost as if the more I noticed about what wasn't my stuff the more our interplay escalated and we began to get distant. 

It all took some time to play out.  We deeply loved one another and neither wanted the marriage to fail.

I almost left 2 years before it ended and then made a decision that we were 'for better or worse'.  Yet, I think it got too uncomfortable for her to address all of this with me and she decided that it was too difficult and left.  I know this is still a pain-point for me and a source of confusion that she could not work it through.