Daughter in law to be

[Gretal]

Hello,

My name is Gretal. Our son has been in a relationship with his BP for 6 years this last December. The first 3 1/2 years they lived further away and we didn't see them as often as we have in the last 2 and 1/2 years.

There had been one "drama" incident between our daughter (24 at the time) and our son's BP, 2 years ago. Until then we had no suspicions of trouble other than the fact that we hoped he would "move on" relationally. She was nice enough, but was a little cold, opinionated, mocked our Christianity, we really just didn't connect with her.

So there was the above mentioned "drama" between she and our daughter. We just thought "they're girls!  When our daughter explained details, again I chalked it up to there having been alcohol involved, BP just isn't a good drinker.

Six months later, we planned a trip around a destination JUNE wedding. The wedding was for a neighborhood boy, whose parents we were friends with and our families raised our kids together.

So we rented a beautiful home, our children, my husband and I and the BP.

Our first night there, it was after dinner and my OTHER son and I were sitting out on the porch, my husband was in the shower. All of a sudden our solitude was shattered by shouting. I got up to look into the kitchen sliding door and froze. I saw our son and his BP . She was banging on our daughter's bedroom door telling her to "Open up! We need to talk! Why don't you want to be my friend? As disturbing as that was in itself, what REALLY caused me concern was MY SON. He was standing there as though he were paralyzed... .I will take THAT moment, to the grave. I KNEW, I KNEW then, he was in an unhealthy relationship. Our daughter opens the door, she'd been studying and out of her mouth is "BP, I don't DO crazy! You've had some wine, go to bed we will talk tomorrow, but NOT now" and slammed the door. BP falls into my waiting son's arms and sobs.

I don't intervene, I stayed out of it, but had a knot in my stomach. The bubble above my head said "Why did he JUST stand there? WHY did he not take control of the situation? Why didn't HE say to her what our daughter said?"

The next day was my birthday, the day before the wedding. The mood in the house had changed. It was like "walking on eggshells" I was really irritated but am good at not leaning into it and letting it not spoil our/my day. The next day was wedding day and I offered to be the designated driver. We go to the wedding, fun is had by all, we get home and my husband builds a fire and brings me a glass of wine. I'm luxuriating in it. Our son (BP's BoyFriend) sits down with me for a nightcap too. We are basking in the afterglow of the evening when BP plops down with us. She proceeds to tell me what a bit#$ my daughter is. I'm stunned, who does that? I say to her "BP, had my sister in law "hurt" my feelings, my mother in law would NEVER have known by me.

I would never have disrespected her the way you have just disrespected me. She got up with out a word and slammed her door. Mine and my son's eyes met, we looked at each other for a long moment and I said "Think long and hard about this one". He looked down for a moment, got up and went into her room.(28 & 29 years old the time) The mood was gone, i got up and went to bed as my husband was once again in the shower.

The next day was Fathers Day. We get up and on the table is my husbands Father's day card and a gift and THEY ARE GONE. They left in THE NIGHT! Who does that?

We were crushed, she ruined our time together. I text my son to let him know how stunned we were and to let him know that THIS relationship was NOT healthy, to rethink it. We believe he was rethinking it. We believe she KNEW he was and SURPRISE! We are having a grandchild. She conceived that August and they told us that December.

The room started spinning when we heard our son announce it to his father and I. We were in shock. Still are to a degree, it's the Twilight Zone. Our grandson is 9 months now and we are in love with him, but he's now a painful pawn. There's so MUCH more I could tell you but because some of you have fallen asleep and are now drooling at your computer desk, I'll TRY to make this a little briefer!

They live two hours from us, both have good jobs and rent a nice house. Her mom moved to where they live and now watches our grandson 4 days a week. When we visit, we go to her house to see him. We don't mind, we actually LOVE her mom! BUT... .we'd like some alone time with him too, to build our OWN relationship with him, soo we rented a house for a month this last November and spent Thanksgiving "together". We REALLY need to STOP renting houses... .We never once got to have him. We had/asked our son to come over one night, to tell us why that was. He proceeded to give us 3 reasons why we couldn't babysit for an afternoon. It was because I (target) had shown  him (grandson)a baby Einstein video from my phone, "he" didn't know anything about my medical history of the last ten years AND (wait for it) "They" felt a BAD ENERGY from me when I was around. My husband told him what a bunch of junk that all was.

We were once again in shock. THIS... .was NOT our son. He was a shell of who he used to be. It was invasion of the body snatchers... .we were at a loss... .He seemed so sad... .we knew it wasn't him, but the BP... .

So fast forward. Ever since then, we've been back twice. Once for our son's (BP's fiance' now) 30th birthday this last December that we were not invited to. We went anyway. We knew he wanted us there, but we are beginning to wonder... .It's as though he's got one hand up beckoning us, fingers saying  to come, but the other hand is up as though to say STOP. CONFUSION. So our counselor (therapy, duh) says that he's "straddling the fence", our son is trying to keep both worlds on kilter. We keep him in reality. BUT, we can't do it any longer, it's killing us. I've written our son an 18 page letter (shocking i know), our therapist says its great and I need to hand deliver it to him. And I want to, my husbands in agreement, but we want to talk to him to and have him read it with us, But then she'll know, she keeps a TIGHT reign on him. We don't want to put him through this and yet He's OUR SON. We feel helpless... .

Sorry it's SO long, but it IS an introduction!

Gretal

[Woolspinner2000]

Welcome Gretal! 

I have wiped the drool from my face and am ready to send you a response.   Your post is informative, and I'm glad you found us here. Thank you for sharing your story with us. It sounds like such a sad and complicated story, but it isn't a made up story, it is very real and painful.

As I read your post, I see where you have set up some healthy boundaries, especially in some of your responses.

I would never have disrespected her the way you have just disrespected me. She got up with out a word and slammed her door.

So our counselor (therapy, duh) says that he's "straddling the fence", our son is trying to keep both worlds on kilter. We keep him in reality. BUT, we can't do it any longer, it's killing us. I've written our son an 18 page letter (shocking i know), our therapist says its great and I need to hand deliver it to him.

She is not controlling you and your husband, and that is good. I'm very glad you are in T.  That will help you to navigate these rough waters. You are loving your son, but also setting up boundaries to keep yourselves safe and as healthy as you can. He knows you are there for him, regardless of what is going on in his life right now. He will not forget.

Keep us informed of how things are going.


Wools

[Kwamina]

Hi Gretal

Thanks for posting this introduction and welcome to our online community

I am very sorry you are dealing with all of this. It isn't easy having a child be in a relationship with someone who has BPD (traits). Has your DIL (to be) perhaps ever been in therapy or gotten any kind of help for her issues? How did your son meet her?

It sounds like your son is finding it very hard to stand up to your DIL, do you perhaps feel that he is behaving the way he does out of fear, obligation and/or guilt?

... .fear, obligation or guilt ("FOG" are the transactional dynamics at play between the controller and the person being controlled.  Understanding these dynamics are useful to anyone trying to extricate themselves from the controlling behavior by another person and deal with their own compulsions to do things that are uncomfortable, undesirable, burdensome, or self-sacrificing for others.

You can read more here: Fear, Obligation And Guilt (FOG): How We Allow Loved Ones To Control Us

How was your relationship with your son before DIL came into his life? Would you say there had been times before that he seemed to let himself be greatly influenced by others as seems to be happening now? Do you generally feel he's able to stand up for himself?

We have a thread here about dealing with BPD in-laws that I think you might find helpful. It's often insightful reading other people's stories:

BPD in-laws: Experiences and coping strategies

Take care and I hope to read more of your story later  (your post wasn't that long at all actually  )

[Notwendy]

This is a tough situation. I hope to give you a little long term perspective. These were the dynamics between my father and his family. They could not understand how or why my father chose to love my mother with BPD. They knew at the get go that there was something wrong with her. Your son does too, and knows that you do.

For my father, loving someone disordered, who insisted on presenting herself as normal and who denies that she has anything wrong with her put him into a situation of cognitive dissonance. Join her in her world, or face the situation. Since being with his family, or others who saw her as disordered,  put him in the situation of facing it, he avoided this.

This was one of the unspoken rules in my family. Pretend mother is normal or be banished. Of course, they didn't abandon their children when we were young and helpless, but they would punish us if we said anything about mom. As adults, they would paint us black/go NC/ or get angry if we said something.

Babies are wonderful and cuddly. Then they become children with minds of their owns, and then teenagers. Sooner or later, a child will challenge the parents' reality, or say no to the parent, or argue with them. There were times in our lives when our mother couldn't handle us, and dad's family stepped forward. They didn't get us much in our baby years, but we got to stay with them at times when we were older. These times stand out as a highlight for us. Fast forward even more: I am middle aged, my grandparents are deceased, and so is my father. I still have a relationship with my mother, but I and my children, are more emotionally bonded to my father's family. My parents chose to be closer to my mother's side, and they maintain she is fine. Since they know I don't, they have been distant from me. My father's side didn't like her from the get go and this is why my parents avoided them. However, they have always been warm and welcoming to me and my own family.

PwBPD see things in black and white. Families can be split if the pwBPD perceives them as against her of for her. I don't know why your son chose to be with her. That is complicated, but his choice is this: be for her or against her. Once she perceived your disapproval, you became against her, and this forced your son into a choice. This is probably why they left that night. Whatever his reason he tells you for "not letting you have the baby" the real reason is that he has to go along with her. Not being able to admit there is anything wrong with her, he will give you another reason.

This is my 2 cents from wanting a relationship with my father: accept my mother and be quiet, or be banished. This was tough because it also meant being a doormat for her. However, as in laws, I think you can maintain your boundaries and still be a support to your son. It may feel as if he is hurting you, but I think he is hurting inside and doesn't know what to do. As a mother, you naturally wish to reach out and help him, but in this situation, I think he has to come to a decision on his own. That's not easy for the people who love him. IMHO, I would let him know that you love him unconditionally and are there for him no matter what. You know that, and believe he knows that, but somewhere, he knows you are not happy with his choices. I wouldn't say anything about her to him, and also try to be present for him and the baby on his terms. This is his reality. ( if you ever think the baby is in danger you can call CPS, but in general, I would avoid saying anything about the mother to your son or to her). Over time, if she feels you are more "for her" than "against her" she may see you in a good light again. Being painted black or white can change in an instant. This doesn't mean you think she is OK or be dishonest or WOE, but not being critical can go a long way. Learning the relationship tools on this board to help relate to her is helpful.

Take the baby when you can. Chances are, you may get him as he gets older and less compliant. Also, know that a little time with him can make a big impact. Staying with my father's family was not a big deal for them. They treated us just like their own kids. It was a patch of heaven on earth for us in comparison to the drama at home. Yes, your instinct as a grandmother is to protect that child, but in the absence of frank abuse proven by authorities, I don't think efforts to intervene are successful.

This is because of the drama triangle. Learn about it. When someone appears to be a threat to the person with BPD, that person goes into victim mode. Their partner becomes their rescuer, and the two of them band together against the perceived "persecutor". Try to stay off he drama triangle. I think that in time, if you can be a support to your son, and less of a threat to his fiance, that over time, you will see that grandbaby. I hope so.

[Gretal]

 Hello all,

This is my 2nd Intro! I couldn't figure out HOW to reply to those that so graciously responded to me! Help please.

Wanted to answer some questions for the daughter of a BP mom, couldn't find your screen name? Am I not looking in right place? This is new to me, as is BPD.

You asked me after my VERY long former intro some questions I'd like to attempt to answer.

You asked why our son might be staying in the relationship. My answer is;

I think he feels obligated to now that they have a child together.

You asked if our BP had been to therapy (mom to our grandson) My answer is;

Not that we know of.

You asked how they met. My answer is; on our sons birthday 6 years ago this last Dec. He was on a party bus, celebrating with friends and they stopped to get some food. She was in the parking lot with friends and they met. Very randomly... .

You asked about our family dynamic (my words, not yours I think) My answer is; We are a very close family. We are fortunate to have had a great marriage for the last close to 35 years, and we dated for 4 years. We've not had drama "like THIS" EVER in our married/family life. We all got along and spoke frequently with our son that's involved with a BP, as well as our other two. We have 2 sons and one daughter. The three of them have always been close. Like I said we never had DRAMA, just normal teenage stuff like curfews, being caught drinking, nothing crazy. Our son that's involved with the BP was born "cool" we always said. People always gravitated to him because he was funny, kind, compassionate, handsome, a musician and a lil aloof, but very friendly at the same time. We believe he's being VERY brave for his son. I know us pulling away is hurting him greatly as it is us. God knows what she's telling him... .We used to go for a visit every other week, 2 hours away, to visit our son and grandson for 2 nights ($$$$) Since he was born last May. That stopped as of Dec, on our son's 30th birthday. The reason? It was unhealthy, plain and simple. We felt to continue to be a part of the Dog and Pony show, we were feeding it. Our councelor suggested it, said he was straddling the fence to keep both "worlds" on kilter... .

You suggested that we learn to maneuver in her world (my words) We may, but first, we want him to know, that WE KNOW. There's such a fine line here... .We are in counceling once if not twice a week. We are SOO grateful!

Last Saturday I was hurting (i'm the mom) so I sent my son THIS text;

"I want you to remember how much you are loved. I think of you all the time my son."

On Monday, he responded back "Why would I EVER forget that... .?

I responded "Because of how sad and seemingly difficult everything always is. We hurt so much, and know you are too, that's why I text you that.

He responded;

"Yes i do... .And I know you both have been too... .So i appreciate those words... .However that is something I always know. It does not have to be difficult. Just need simple boundaries met. You two both need to come see (no name) He is growing so fast...

Before I read my response, let me just say, that reading between those lines REALLY said to us ME/My Husband that "as long as you don't make waves, this could work"

Hence my response;

"I know... .I understand the boundaries, I do. Our fear it that with BP, it will ALWAYS be something. We feel so bad for you and what you've chosed to deal with. Love should be joyous. She never seems joyful. She never once reached out to me in (where we rented a house for a month). I so desired that, to spend time with her. But she wouldn't. She seems to have so much fear. The day just she and (grandson) were supposed to come to lunch, you ended up coming too because she couldn't find her keys. Then when I offered you my car to go back to work, so she'd have a car, she looked like she wanted to run. So sad... .We feel and have come to realize that you are HER mouthpiece. When you talk to or email us, it's not really YOU. You have been marinading in "this" for 6 years

, it's become YOUR normal. But it doesn't seem normal to those who so desperately love you. We feel helpless. We don't want to subject ourselves to her hostility anymore, it's NOT healthy for us or anyone. We miss you and grandson so much. We don't sleep well and I cry at least once a day. We are grieving the loss of our son and grandson. There's no freedom in loving either of you. But we have a relentless love for you both. That's why I text you my love. I hope we can make it happen, to see you and grandson. As I said in June of 2014, delete these texts if you need to.We don't want to stir any pots, you know we are peacemakers. Make it easier on yourself. Don't want you to have to pay for my sincere honesty.

So there you have it... .Our counselor thought it was good in that it was presented to him in truth, love, with boundaries (ours) and that we KNOW.

I so value yours and the other people on this message boards thoughts. I want to respond, but again, I don't yet see how to maneuver in doing that. Help appreciated. I sign off with a name. I didn't see that on the peeps who responded to me :/

Gratefuuly,

Gretal

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi again, Gretal!   It is good to hear back from you. Here is a bit of help for you which I hope I can explain clearly. When you are logged in as a member, you will be able to click on your post (this one) and read the replies to you. You'll see the name of the person who wrote to you, usually signed at the bottom of the post, but also on the left side of the post in the upper corner.

To reply to anyone who has posted, you merely hit the green "reply" tab which is at the very top or bottom of the entire page of notes. There are several tabs there, upper right side but not so far over as the Survivors Guide on the side. You'll then see a smaller white box appear above all the posts in which you can write your response to anyone, and you are able to move the grey bar on the far right side of your screen to scroll down and read the other responses to you. You may also click on the "preview" button once you have typed your note, and by moving up the screen you can view in grey what you have written.

Hope that helps! Give it a try and see. 

Wools

[Kwamina]

Hi Gretal

Wanted to answer some questions for the daughter of a BP mom, couldn't find your screen name?

Thanks for answering my questions I'm the son of a BPD mom but you can also refer to me as the Board Parrot

Sometimes letting our loved ones know that we care is all we can do. If your son wants to make a change, he himself needs to make it happen. I hope at one point he'll be able to extricate himself from the FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) and set some boundaries with his wife.

Before I read my response, let me just say, that reading between those lines REALLY said to us ME/My Husband that "as long as you don't make waves, this could work"

Hence my response;

"I know... .I understand the boundaries, I do. Our fear it that with BP, it will ALWAYS be something. We feel so bad for you and what you've chosed to deal with. Love should be joyous. She never seems joyful. She never once reached out to me in (where we rented a house for a month). I so desired that, to spend time with her. But she wouldn't. She seems to have so much fear. The day just she and (grandson) were supposed to come to lunch, you ended up coming too because she couldn't find her keys. Then when I offered you my car to go back to work, so she'd have a car, she looked like she wanted to run. So sad... .We feel and have come to realize that you are HER mouthpiece. When you talk to or email us, it's not really YOU. You have been marinading in "this" for 6 years

, it's become YOUR normal. But it doesn't seem normal to those who so desperately love you. We feel helpless. We don't want to subject ourselves to her hostility anymore, it's NOT healthy for us or anyone. We miss you and grandson so much. We don't sleep well and I cry at least once a day. We are grieving the loss of our son and grandson. There's no freedom in loving either of you. But we have a relentless love for you both. That's why I text you my love. I hope we can make it happen, to see you and grandson. As I said in June of 2014, delete these texts if you need to.We don't want to stir any pots, you know we are peacemakers. Make it easier on yourself. Don't want you to have to pay for my sincere honesty.

How did he respond to this last text you sent him?

Take care and I hope to hear from you again