He has threatened to move out

[Depression = 72% of members]

I have just joined here so still learning. I am looking for your advice on this current situation i'm in. So i am with this guy (uBPD) for 18yrs now and married for 4yrs. In relationship phase we didn't live together but after marriage, ie the last 4yrs, since we have started to live together things have become worse. Last year things were worst, and over several months he accused me and my family of several things, most of which are extremely inaccurate. His family doesn't know (and doesn't really care) about his BPD and they aided his behavior in all this. I have been struggling with my mental health for last fews years and at this point it has set very badly. I am into higher academia and the pressure of PhD has also left me drained.

Currently, i have joined postdoc and since it is in a different city, i talked and discussed with him before taking up the position and when he agreed, i took a rented apartment and furnished it with everything that costed me all my PhD savings. I arranged this just so that he and me can live together because after this postdoc, i may have to go abroad for the 2nd postdoc so for next 1 or 2yrs we may have to be long distance. I have discussed all these with him. He is not at all good with long distances. But to make our relationship work i compromised my Phd stream, postdoc, everything to stay near him. This current postdoc is in another city for not very far from our home or his workplace.

For last about 3weeks we went to our respective houses to take care of some family needs. One day in between we met up and i was late. This enraged him and he started to threaten that he wont stay in our rented apartment anymore. There's literally no connection between the two. So that day i cried for 2.5 hrs over the phone, tried to cool him down, requested him not to move out of our apartment (i felt so bad because i am the one who has rented it and bought everything to furnish it).. he then cooled down and said he'd rethink. Then everything was fine he was in good and 'normal' mood.

Yesterday I told him i'd return this Monday and asked him when he'd come back. He again started to say he won't go back. Apparently he's in good mood but just trying to frustrate me and 'getting back at me' for no apparent reason. He has always made me 'beg' for him to stay here, as if my getting a postdoc in a different (but still nearby) city was a crime. My friends from Phd went abroad for postdoc or atleast in other states in good institutions for their career. I have chosen among the only 3 or 4 institutes which were around our city. Even getting into one of these 3-4 institute of very hard, but somehow i managed.


Recently, i am starting to take more responsibility for my mental health. I can't really describe just how extremely bad my mental health is. I am highly sensitive person, also have ADHD,very low self esteem. Chronic stress has manifested into numerous physical symptoms like bad indigestion issues, very frequent allergies, miscellaneous nd severe body pains everyday, migraines everyday. There is no therapist here in my country who understands these kind of issues. I am trying my best to regain my health. Trying to read relevant books on these issues, trying meditation and art therapies for my mental health.

At this point I feel like i should take a stand for his behaviors. The series of accusation of last year have left me very damaged on the inside. All i have done is accept everything and say sorry because I can't deal with conflict at all, it impacts me very badly maybe because i am highly sensitive. So this time i decided that if he doesn't return to the apartment i will say 'we are done'...i don't think he will be expecting this, all he will expect is more pleading and crying on my part. I am trying to mentally accept the fact too that if he continues like this, we should really be done. And if we are to stay, he needs to take up atleast some bit of responsibility towards his behavior and towards this marriage. I shouldn't be the only one trying to keep everything together. Just to clarify, i am not really ready to move on.  We have been together for 18yrs and am still very severely codependent on him. But just want to put my foot down.

What are your views on this? I am afraid that if things escalated and we really break up. But honestly I don't know how else to bring a change in this relationship. If i approach by 'normal' conversation he will not even hear. Whenever i try to say something serious he avoids badly, he doesn't like any serious conversation. Previously, as i recall, i have given him ultimatum twice in two occasions long back and as i remember, it had worked both the times. What are your views on this? Is there any alternative? what are your experiences regarding this, esp regarding major changes that you could bring about in the relationship? how did you make it happen?

Thank you for reading. Any support would mean a lot.

[losthope1234]

I have just joined here so still learning. I am looking for your advice on this current situation i'm in. So i am with this guy (uBPD) for 18yrs now and married for 4yrs. In relationship phase we didn't live together but after marriage, ie the last 4yrs, since we have started to live together things have become worse. Last year things were worst, and over several months he accused me and my family of several things, most of which are extremely inaccurate. His family doesn't know (and doesn't really care) about his BPD and they aided his behavior in all this. I have been struggling with my mental health for last fews years and at this point it has set very badly. I am into higher academia and the pressure of PhD has also left me drained.

Currently, i have joined postdoc and since it is in a different city, i talked and discussed with him before taking up the position and when he agreed, i took a rented apartment and furnished it with everything that costed me all my PhD savings. I arranged this just so that he and me can live together because after this postdoc, i may have to go abroad for the 2nd postdoc so for next 1 or 2yrs we may have to be long distance. I have discussed all these with him. He is not at all good with long distances. But to make our relationship work i compromised my Phd stream, postdoc, everything to stay near him. This current postdoc is in another city for not very far from our home or his workplace.

For last about 3weeks we went to our respective houses to take care of some family needs. One day in between we met up and i was late. This enraged him and he started to threaten that he wont stay in our rented apartment anymore. There's literally no connection between the two. So that day i cried for 2.5 hrs over the phone, tried to cool him down, requested him not to move out of our apartment (i felt so bad because i am the one who has rented it and bought everything to furnish it).. he then cooled down and said he'd rethink. Then everything was fine he was in good and 'normal' mood.

Yesterday I told him i'd return this Monday and asked him when he'd come back. He again started to say he won't go back. Apparently he's in good mood but just trying to frustrate me and 'getting back at me' for no apparent reason. He has always made me 'beg' for him to stay here, as if my getting a postdoc in a different (but still nearby) city was a crime. My friends from Phd went abroad for postdoc or atleast in other states in good institutions for their career. I have chosen among the only 3 or 4 institutes which were around our city. Even getting into one of these 3-4 institute of very hard, but somehow i managed.


Recently, i am starting to take more responsibility for my mental health. I can't really describe just how extremely bad my mental health is. I am highly sensitive person, also have ADHD,very low self esteem. Chronic stress has manifested into numerous physical symptoms like bad indigestion issues, very frequent allergies, miscellaneous nd severe body pains everyday, migraines everyday. There is no therapist here in my country who understands these kind of issues. I am trying my best to regain my health. Trying to read relevant books on these issues, trying meditation and art therapies for my mental health.

At this point I feel like i should take a stand for his behaviors. The series of accusation of last year have left me very damaged on the inside. All i have done is accept everything and say sorry because I can't deal with conflict at all, it impacts me very badly maybe because i am highly sensitive. So this time i decided that if he doesn't return to the apartment i will say 'we are done'...i don't think he will be expecting this, all he will expect is more pleading and crying on my part. I am trying to mentally accept the fact too that if he continues like this, we should really be done. And if we are to stay, he needs to take up atleast some bit of responsibility towards his behavior and towards this marriage. I shouldn't be the only one trying to keep everything together. Just to clarify, i am not really ready to move on.  We have been together for 18yrs and am still very severely codependent on him. But just want to put my foot down.

What are your views on this? I am afraid that if things escalated and we really break up. But honestly I don't know how else to bring a change in this relationship. If i approach by 'normal' conversation he will not even hear. Whenever i try to say something serious he avoids badly, he doesn't like any serious conversation. Previously, as i recall, i have given him ultimatum twice in two occasions long back and as i remember, it had worked both the times. What are your views on this? Is there any alternative? what are your experiences regarding this, esp regarding major changes that you could bring about in the relationship? how did you make it happen?

Thank you for reading. Any support would mean a lot.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Pook075]

What are your views on this? I am afraid that if things escalated and we really break up. But honestly I don't know how else to bring a change in this relationship.

Hello and welcome to the forums, thanks for posting and sharing.  Many of us have been in this exact circumstance and it is extremely volatile.

A fear of abandonment is a prevailing trait of BPD.  I understand that your post-graduate work can only happen in certain places, and I understand that it makes sense for you to finish your education.  I am looking at this logically though; you've been in school for 7+ years already...it makes total sense to do the last year or two.

Your husband, however, is seeing this emotionally.  He FEELS (an emotion) that if you actually cared about him, you'd never leave him.  Yet that's exactly what you're planning...you've already pulled him out of his comfort zone in the nearby city.  This makes him FEEL like you're not committed to the relationship, like your career is more important than him, and maybe you'll meet someone else overseas and fall in love.

Is that logical?  Not at all.  But when we're talking about feelings and how BPD's process emotion, it shows how he can dig deeper and deeper into a destructive narrative.

Why is this happening?  Well, you're apart.  He's not waking up each day and drinking coffee with you, you guys aren't watching your favorite shows together, going to your favorite restaurants, etc.  So he's feeling the abandonment and spiraling.  Everything is emotional right now, logic doesn't matter, and he's going to say what he FEELS in the moment, even if it's not what he truly believes.

You're talking about implementing boundaries, which is a good thing.  He shouldn't speak to you that way, or threaten to leave the relationship just to get under your skin.  But once you "call his bluff", things will get worse as he doubles down on his FEELINGS in the moment and faces his worst fears of being abandoned.

Now, for the actual advice part.  Making boundaries are a good thing, even though it will make things work and threaten the relationship.  Let's cut to the root of the problem though, his unstable FEELINGS that you're abandoning him.  He FEELS in the right for punishing you for making him FEEL this way...notice how I keep putting FEELINGS in caps?  That's because it's how he's hard-wired and it's not tied to logic. 

When he becomes overly-emotional, the logic part of his brain shuts down and the FEELINGS take over completely.

Boundaries are good...but not in a "I'm punishing you for being a lousy spouse" type of way.  The boundaries are simply for saying, "this is hurting me, so I'm taking a step back."  You absolutely have to do that with love and compassion though while remembering what's driving all this from him, and you have to stress that you're not going anywhere (even though you literally are eventually for school).

If I were in your position, I would talk to him about why he's feeling the way he is and where it stems from.  We can already guess, it's the long-distance stuff happening right now and again in the future, so you need to get to the root of the problem.  Ask him if he'd prefer for you to postpone the second part of post-doc training....not because you want to do that...but because you're allowing him to be a part of the process he fears the most.

I hope that helps.

[losthope1234]

Hi pook,

Thank you soo much for your reply and support. It was really so empathetic and relatable. You are so right in your explanation and I completely agree. Sometimes when one is frustrated, it's really difficult to keep things in perspective and just believe that 'he is doing it just to harass me'... you are totally right. I can literally feel his underlying issue at this point. He feel something like : "what's the point of staying together, ultimately she's gonna go to another country and leave me.. so it's better to start staying away from now, in that way i won't be hurt later and also she won't have to waste the money now as rent" ..

I understand, eventually if i have to go abroad that will be a big step and honestly i already have in mind that i have to make a lot of accommodations regarding it.. and honestly, if possible, i won't even go.. that is, if i manage to get a job right after this postdoc itself, then obviously i won't go. Also, i am here for 1.5-2 more years while i am completing this postdoc.

But as for the current situation, i am afraid that he may not come back here and i don't know how else to convince him. Rational talking is not at all his thing - this is something we need to start practicing in the relationship in the near future. However, in current equation in the relationship, he will simply say 'no, i wont come, its my wish'.. I will again have to cry and plead and after that even if he agrees to come, he will have unreasonable 'conditions', like, i won't do this, i won't bear that and so on --like it's a crime i am making him commit.

Instead of saying 'we are done', maybe i can modify and say 'its ok, if u dont want to be with me, dont come, after all staying together is a choice which both of us has to agree to and a decision both has to make.. if u r unwilling, no probs, i will stay alone here'...something like this.. but honestly, he having some kind of discussion about his 'feelings' is not in the books at this point. He doesn't even believe that there are something called 'feelings'.. it's the societal narrative, that boys doesn't have feelings. In more developed countries, the awareness is increasing, but it's still poor here in my country. After marriage it took me a year to convince him to say 'my mood is not good' instead of just saying 'my body health is not good' when he was sad..

[Pook075]

Let's say you and I are hanging out one day, and as we enter a building I accidentally get my hand slammed in the door.  You don't see it happen, but as you turn you can tell from my reactions exactly what happened- I'm yelling, I'm holding my hand, I'm physically shaken as the pain comes in those initial waves.

My question is, what am I feeling in that moment?

The answer is, well, it's complicated.  Anger, sadness, confusion, fear...maybe even rage...who knows.  It's all happening so fast that it's hard to find a solid definition.

Since you're my friend though, you react without trying to identify the actual feelings.  Maybe you say, "Oh my gosh Pook, are you okay?  Let me see it."  Then maybe you rush to get some ice, or rush me to the car if it's bad enough for a hospital visit.

Your initial actions, they do absolutely nothing to help the physical pain.  But because you're being present and showing me compassion, because you're taking over in getting me first aid, it helps me get through the moment and eases so many burdens in the moment.

With your husband, you don't need him to talk about his feelings...we know how he feels and why he feels that way.  And just like slamming a hand in the door, they might be all over the place- rage one second, sadness the very next.  So you do the same for him as I hoped you'd do for me, you comfort him in the moment and help him get past that initial pain.

I have a BPD ex wife and a BPD daughter, so I'm speaking from experience.  I can't tell you how many times my kid was suicidal from spiraling emotions one minute, but calm and thinking rationally a few minutes later.  The result all came down to how I reacted when she was at her worst. 

Before I said it's all about FEELINGS, which is true when they're thinking in a disordered way.  But once they get past that and their emotions balance out, then logic turns back on and you can have real conversations.  If you try while they're freaking out though, it's a lose/lose situation that's going to spiral every single time.

Just talk to your husband, tell him you love him, and let him know that you're thinking about not doing overseas study...not if it upsets him.  Then let him respond and listen.  He may become emotional and that's where the 'hand in the door' scenario kicks in, show compassion and do your best to help him understand that he's first and foremost in your life, that you're not going anywhere if it's going to hurt the marriage.

Maybe he yells, maybe he cries, but that's where you start.  Even if it gets to the point where you need to put in a boundary and have to step back, you do it with love and compassion.  He's hurting worse than someone having their hand slammed in a door, just keep that perspective. 

The main thing is him understanding that you're not walking away, you're not giving up, and you want to find a way to make this work for everyone.  Figure out how to say that in a loving, compassionate way and you'll be past the worst of this.

Good luck- and keep asking tough questions!

[losthope1234]

Hi, thank you so much pook for your replies. It means a lot.. reading your suggestions last day, i took two days to figure out how to approach this. The day after i brought this up. I tried to be compassionate and acknowledge that he is hurt. I tried to assure him that i'll be there by him and won't take any discussion that is gonna make him feel abandoned. I also tired to talk to him as to what family needs i had to take care of during this time (he went to his home because his mom had a major surgery and was recovering, i have also paid visit to her) so that he does not misunderstand this thinking i purposely abandoned him. He seemed all okay and talked nicely and seemed to be supportive and understanding of everything. In general also, he was in very good mood and replying lovingly over the msgs and over phn, no issues whatsoever.

Then yesterday, he again said that tmw i am going to come and pack my things and move out, like out of nowhere. I have already moved back in and was expecting him to move back too over the weekend but instead he said this. So I tried a lot to make sense as to why he is still saying this, tried to ask if he is having any challenges here, tried to assure that if he is having any problem i am ready to help him, support him etc etc.. said, i love you so many times and requested not to move out, requested to discuss. But he simply kept accusing me like he does when he is angry. When he is angry he will bring up every little detailed flaws in me and accuse me. He said, don't stop me i don't want any more discussion.

Today morning he packed his stuffs and moved out. He texted me once, but it's too much for me now. Like I was saying, for last 1.5yrs,the accusations have become extreme. Like, i take medicine for my depression so i am drug addict-always calling me drug addict (even tho i only take medicine via regular doctor visits and check ups), why i use car and not public transport (even though i myself pay for it and he knows that my physical health is not good), i am brainwashed by my mother (even tho i hardly talk to her, obviously not regularly,tho i do love her ), that i am destroying his mental peace (i am very quiet and introverted person, also Highly Sensitive) etc etc several more. I even tried to accommodate these, stopped taking medication after tapering off, using car only one way, hardly calling my mother etc etc.

So after he moved out and reached his place and texted, I told him "I dont wanna be the one who destroy your mental peace, i don't think we should talk anymore.. take care "

Now he is desperately msging me and calling me. The msgs all contains same abusive language, like how I am creating trouble and escaping, how i am unwilling to accept my faults, i have these these long list of faults, i always do these etc etc

I didn't receive any call and didn't reply. It's too much for me.

I want to bring about changes in the relationship dynamics, the present one has become very dysfunctional. I am trying to read all the coping strategies here, as well as re-read the books, but any advice particularly to my situation would be highly appreciated.

[losthope1234]

Here another update.

After calling 20times and sending about 25 abusive messages all through the evening now (it's about 12am) I see he has deleted all the msgs he sent thru the evening and wrote the following:
i am sorry
whatever i wrote was in anger and sadness
now i have no strength left
take care


how do i proceed?

i was reading the 'success stories' tread

some have written that after enabling for long, they decided firmly to move out/told the BPD to move out and asked the BPD seek therapy. they seeked therapy themselves too.

please tell me how i proceed? should i reply just yet, or wait one or two days and then say something like that from the success story? What are your opinions?

[stevemcduck]

hi, you are more experienced than me so I don't want to say anything that might be wrong. I just wanted to say sorry for what you are going through. at least he is contacting you. would it not be wise to at least acknowledge the text so he doesn't feel abandoned and say to talk tomorrow?

[losthope1234]

Hi steve, thanks so much for replying.
i am also a bit confused. Thing is that, since i have said 'we wont talk', sometimes it's better to stick to the words, otherwise it gives them the msg that i was just bluffing. On the other hand, your view is also important. I slept off yesterday, didn't say anything, it's morning now i'm still thinking what to do. I am really hurt and honestly don't want to do anything with him unless he on really calm and shows some willingness to bring change to our relationship. ( to be fair, i am also trying my best this time to bring about change in me, it's not just him)

[Pook075]

please tell me how i proceed? should i reply just yet, or wait one or two days and then say something like that from the success story? What are your opinions?

I'm so sorry for all of this, and you are certainly at a crossroads right now.  I think about you, younger woman, knocked out school and on a strong career path, yet you're surrounded by this storm.  You love him, yet he's sick and responding badly.  He's hurt and he doesn't know why...even though you know what's really going on.  It's heartbreaking because it is all of our stories and we have no idea how to proceed in those moments.

Okay, first off, let's go back to him deciding to leave.

Understand that he didn't want to leave, he didn't want to break up, and he didn't mean to create all of this chaos.  Yet in his mind, he was scared like a young child thinking there's a boogeyman in his closet at night.  He just couldn't shake that feeling, his own doubts and insecurities, so he lashed out at you and decided to flee.

Here's the thing though, this is part of that push/pull relationship.  He fled so you'd fight harder for him, to show that you genuinely care.  And I understand, that's not what he said at all.  But he was speaking from pure emotion and spiraling out of control.

Honestly, my heart breaks for him because I've watched my daughter go through this hundreds of times.  It shatters her, tears her apart.  My ex wife left in the exact same way your man did.  She expected me to fight, to beg, and when I didn't instantly do that, it shattered her.  Yet she had no idea how much she had hurt me leading up to those moments.

You're online so I'm posting this now, and going straight into another message.

[Pook075]

Now for the hard part- what to do.  Three options.

1)  Reach out and talk to him.  He might rage, but more likely he's express his love and beg for another chance.  That's the BPD cycle and if you choose to reconcile today, he'll make grand promises and try to be on his best behavior.  It might even feel like the old days again.

You mentioned recommending therapy at this time.  That's a tricky subject that he might take the wrong way.  Family therapy might be the best choice since it involves both of you...meaning the problem is not just him (I know it's mostly him, but still).  This may stabilize your relationship, it might not, but this probably won't be the last time you face these insecurities on his end.  Again, these are cycles based off his worst fears...they'll repeat until he wants it to change.

2)  You could also take a neutral route, saying you love him but you need some space, that you've been hurt recently and some time apart might help the relationship.  Then follow through with the same plan, suggesting therapy and counseling to see how it goes.  This path could go either way as well- maybe it's great, maybe it implodes.  But you'd at least know that for the time being, you're living alone and you can focus on your own mental health and career.

Option 2 is a great option, to be honest, but it could lead to the end of the relationship entirely.  That's true with any of these option though.

3)  The third path is to keep your distance, not respond, and allow him to do whatever he's going to do.  In my BPD kid's journey, that's what actually got her to take therapy seriously after having a complete breakdown a few years ago.  She dug in and wanted to get better so badly, that she decided to put in the work and change her life.

Here's the thing though, my kid's story is more the exception than what normally happens.  Option three allows you to focus on yourself and your career though, and allows him to process where he went wrong in the relationship.  And hey, even if you're saying it's over today...that doesn't mean forever.  It only means you're putting yourself first for a little bit.

Nobody here can tell you which path to take since all are going to be a challenge.  You have to do what's best for you though and you can't be so hyper-focused on what's best for him.  He's sick and making bad choices, and those will continue until he takes therapy seriously.  He has to want it so bad and see that he's the problem, he's the one that wrecks all these relationships.  That part has nothing at all to do with you.

I'll hang out online for a bit and see if I can answer any questions for you in this thread.  I'm so sorry you're in this position and i really feel for you.

[losthope1234]

Hi pook,

Thanks so so much for your detailed replies, it's really feels so good to be supported and is really very helpful.

I do understand what you're saying, that he didn't really wanted to move out but was so hurt on the inside that he did. You are right and even i feel so too.. we were very happily living here,his decision was surely motivated by deep hurt. Just that he coats his hurt in anger and abusive blames and even tho i understand this logically, i get hurt because, to be honest, my self esteem is also not so good, something that i'm also trying to work on. Thank you for highlighting it though, it gives me support and helps me hold the perspective that this place that i have worked so hard to arrange and furnish is nothing wrong in itself. I was reallyy feeling hurt at this.

You've made a lot of sense in the three options that you've put down. I am so emotionally down that i was struggling to come up with the pros and cons which you have highlighted so nicely. It's really big help. Let me take some time and give all the options some serious thoughts. I'll post here and update.

Cant thank you enough for everything.

[Pook075]

You've made a lot of sense in the three options that you've put down. I am so emotionally down that i was struggling to come up with the pros and cons which you have highlighted so nicely. It's really big help. Let me take some time and give all the options some serious thoughts. I'll post here and update.

Cant thank you enough for everything.

No problem at all, take all the time you need.  Rant if necessary, or ask more questions.  Do it all your your timelines though as it feels right for you.

[losthope1234]

Hi pook,

So I took some time and gave some serious thoughts to consider the options. He hasn't sent anything else anymore after those last 4 msgs. I haven't either.

1)  Reach out and talk to him.  He might rage, but more likely he's express his love and beg for another chance.  That's the BPD cycle and if you choose to reconcile today, he'll make grand promises and try to be on his best behavior.  It might even feel like the old days again.

 To be honest, if i do this, if I reply now, I am sure things will be "fixed" immediately and we will simply continue the "sweet talk" like we always do. He will however not move back in, I'm sure. Honestly, this option is what he is expecting. In each and every situation, I do this, he knows I can't stay angry at him, and that I will simply try to amend everything within two-three days. He knows I hate conflicts. He also knows, that while amending, I am the one who will do all the compromises, even say sorry repeatedly. I always do this. He won't own any responsibility whatsoever. Things will be "fine" until next time i "falter" and again the same blames and accusations will repeat.

2)  You could also take a neutral route, saying you love him but you need some space, that you've been hurt recently and some time apart might help the relationship.  Then follow through with the same plan, suggesting therapy and counseling to see how it goes.  This path could go either way as well- maybe it's great, maybe it implodes.  But you'd at least know that for the time being, you're living alone and you can focus on your own mental health and career.

In this option, if I say this 1st, he will take this totally against me. He will think I am simply trying to keep him away. If I say this After he text me 1st, then maybe it could lead to somewhere, but still it will reinforce his idea that allll the problem is in me -- "I am the one who is depressed, i take drugs, so he has to suffer because of that"--something in this line. Like i was saying, for about last two years, the blame and accusations on his part has intensified so badly, and is aided by his family.

3)  The third path is to keep your distance, not respond, and allow him to do whatever he's going to do.  In my BPD kid's journey, that's what actually got her to take therapy seriously after having a complete breakdown a few years ago.  She dug in and wanted to get better so badly, that she decided to put in the work and change her life.

Here's the thing though, my kid's story is more the exception than what normally happens.  Option three allows you to focus on yourself and your career though, and allows him to process where he went wrong in the relationship.  And hey, even if you're saying it's over today...that doesn't mean forever.  It only means you're putting yourself first for a little bit.

Somehow, this is the option my mind is agreeing the most to. I feel that my "fixing" everything each time there is a conflict is somehow enabling him. It is reinforcing the ideas that whatever "blames" he is putting on me is right and that I am indeed very flawed. Honestly, i really do accept and say sorry to each of the blames and even try very hard to improve on those. It's simply because i am so sensitive and just cant deal with conflicts. But I am noticing that no amount of improvement is sufficient for him and he doesn't even acknowledge that i am trying to improve, that i am trying to accommodate all his wishes. This time i want him to atleast retrospect what he is saying and doing. Change can only happen if both the people try, isn't it? I don't even expect 50-50%. Atleast he should try 10%. He is completely missing his part and I am also allowing that.

I know this option is very risky. Still going for it.
Felling very sad and tensed though

[losthope1234]

There is actually another aspect to this whole situation which i feel like i should put down. Might be kinda rant. But it'd be really really helpful if you could provide your opinions.

I just feel, there is a lot of intrusion from the in-laws too and even apart from this current situation, i am getting more and more worried regarding this in general. The 14yrs together before marriage, this aspect was not there. Just a sister in law, but she has always supported me and the relationship. But after marriage, things are different. It is very common in my country for parents to be overly involved in older children's life. Sometimes they live together also, though we don't, but we frequently visit.  I get a feeling that the mother-in-law doesn't really have the best at heart. I also wonder whether she may have BDP or some other personality issues too, since BPD is often inherited? Father in law seems to be a good person, but too afraid to speak up against his wife or son.

Just at time i got married, i got to hear how my husband has shouted and argued and extremely misbehaved with an uncle and got him to hand down a property. Later i realised, the entire benefit of that went to the mother. Just after i got married, every single day i woke up to telephonic arguments between my husband and his mother regarding the division of their houses and properties between my husband and his sister. I hate conflicts, i repeatedly requested them to discuss in peace but that didn happen. Sometimes she additionally enraged him 'just for fun' (she once joked to me and said "wanna see how i enrage him?"). She would sometimes just start a debate with him about absolutely useless matters. The property settlement mostly favoured my husband and the mother such that all of it will belong to the mother now and when she passes away it will pass on to the son mostly and some to the sister. I just feel, this property debate too was ignited by the mother to ensure she owns them till she is alive in case her husband passes away before her. After this, the sister was enraged and the mother conveniently passed on the entire blame onto my husband and then later on, made me settle both of them, calm them down and restore the relationship between them to normal. I did that. I felt very used.

As soon as this settled, almost within a week, a flood of accusations were put on me and my family.  So previously my husband's rages were directed against the sister and that uncle, now it turned towards me and my family. Mind you, on the outside, she pretends like she has no control over my husband's rages. But this time i wasn't fooled because at one incident she directly said bad things to me about my mother over the phone - - which later my husband echoed. Before this, he was really loving towards my family.

These accusations are what i was mentioned in my posts too.  This has left me very hurt and drained. Thing is that, I can still possibly manage if it's just my husband and his BPD, like i have done for last 18yrs but it would be impossible if this is incinerated even more by external people.  I know his BPD is not their responsibility, it's not even in their control, it's under nobody's control but can they be pouring fuel to it? What can i do about it? I can't confront directly because they won't believe that the son can have some mental health condition. I have repeatedly tried before to tell her not to get into silly arguments with him but honestly i feel that since i told her, she has increased them. We were living here in this apartment (from which he moved out last day) pretty happily for 8 months, no issues at all, he never even complained anything, she visited here 1st time just before her operation "to see how the apartment was" , and now he moved out. Can't be a co-incident every time.

Have you had any experience, may not be in-laws but maybe best friends, or say, bother/sister? Even if not, can you suggest anything regarding this situation? I can actually elaborate a lot more, give many more example but the post will become too big.

i am sorry, i feel very guilty even as i write this, i am always very respectful about elders, and from the beginning I took them as my own mom and dad, they had two major operations before, I totally took care of them, admitting them to hospital and everything, keeping her in our house back then, caring for her and everything.

But I am having to reconsider and think of the worst now having gone through and observing various things because this is affecting my marriage.

[Pook075]

Somehow, this is the option my mind is agreeing the most to. I feel that my "fixing" everything each time there is a conflict is somehow enabling him. It is reinforcing the ideas that whatever "blames" he is putting on me is right and that I am indeed very flawed. Honestly, i really do accept and say sorry to each of the blames and even try very hard to improve on those. It's simply because i am so sensitive and just cant deal with conflicts. But I am noticing that no amount of improvement is sufficient for him and he doesn't even acknowledge that i am trying to improve, that i am trying to accommodate all his wishes. This time i want him to atleast retrospect what he is saying and doing. Change can only happen if both the people try, isn't it? I don't even expect 50-50%. Atleast he should try 10%. He is completely missing his part and I am also allowing that.

I know this option is very risky. Still going for it.
Felling very sad and tensed though

If that's what you feel, then this is the right path.  And I completely agree with everything you said in your reasoning.  A big part of BPD is blaming others while they're struggling.  If you always apologize to avoid conflict (which is what I always did, and everyone else here) then that's reinforcing in his mind that you're the bad person that always brings him down. 

He might sense that there's something wrong with that line of thinking, but it's not dominant.  Over time he becomes convinced that you're the entire problem.

When that kicks in, then the fear of abandonment isn't too far behind...and you get the scenario where you're at now.  He wants you to beg him to come back, he wants you to fight like mad and take all the blame for him being in the wrong.

It's so tough and unfair, but you have to follow your heart regardless.

[Pook075]

Have you had any experience, may not be in-laws but maybe best friends, or say, bother/sister? Even if not, can you suggest anything regarding this situation? I can actually elaborate a lot more, give many more example but the post will become too big.

I have a very similar story with my mother-in-law.  We had our first daughter almost 9 months after we were married and in the months following that, my wife barely got out of bed.  My mom would come over and get the baby before I left for work, and my wife would eventually get up and go to my mom's house late-morning.  But she'd sleep on the couch until 2-3 PM and then take the baby to her mom's house, where she'd nap on the couch again as her mom watched the baby.

When my mother-in-law inquired why my wife was always so tired, she said that it was because she had zero help at home from me.

I was working 12-15 hour days back then, and I'd come home from work, clean the entire house, cook a meal, etc.  My wife would still be at her mom's house or already asleep.  I was frustrated and concerned, so I finally called her mom and explained how tired and down my wife had been.

Only, my mother-in-law snapped on me, and told me that I was a horrible man that was beneath her daughter.  I didn't do anything but drink and chase women, and that my wife should divorce me.  And I thought....where the heck did that come from?  I'm working 80 hours a week and doing all the cooking, cleaning etc.

What I realize now is that my wife wanted sympathy from me, sympathy from my mom, and sympathy from her mom.  So she'd say whatever got her the most attention and painted her as the victim in all of this.  I would occasionally drink a beer or two from time to time with friends after work, so I want to be transparent here, there was a shred of truth to the accusations.  But they were completely false and baseless as well- I was not looking at other women or getting drunk.

When I tried to talk to my wife about it, she denied everything and this was the first time we broke up.  The bigger problem, however, was the wedge that was driven in our marriage by her continually bad-mouthing me to my mom (which clearly saw what was happening) and her mom (which believed her daughter 100%).  I didn't get on good terms with her mom for probably a decade into our marriage, just because so much of that drama painted me a certain way.

In your situation, it's probably the same thing- the sister makes a comment about you, your husband sees that it paints him as the victim, so he repeats it for sympathy.  Then his mom picks it up and uses it to stir the pot, adds some to the story and now everyone's saying a new thing against you.  And maybe it's not horrible, but those little things add up over time and make people form unfair opinions about you.

For BPD on my wife's side, there's my daughter, my wife, and at least one or both of her brothers.  I'd be shocked if her mom wasn't BPD as well, and my wife's aunt was diagnosed bipolar.  My wife's grandfather was diagnosed with depression but it seemed to be something more.  I don't know it for a fact, but I saw it across four generations.

I see the same cycles in my BPD daughter, how her inner circle is always hating or idolizing someone in their group.  Someone is always terrible, completely wrong...and then the next month that person is my kid's best friend as they hate on someone else.  People with mental illness prefer others with mental illness because they can feed of each other's pain and rescue one another over and over and over again...even though they're being rescued from each other.

I hope that helps!

[losthope1234]

Gosh, whatever you said is soo sooo relatable. It's exactly the case here too. He will convincingly tell his mom and dad who always believes him and then he plays the victim role.

I would occasionally drink a beer or two from time to time with friends after work, so I want to be transparent here, there was a shred of truth to the accusations.  But they were completely false and baseless as well- I was not looking at other women or getting drunk.

This part is soo very true. In my case also, they always start off with some bits of truth and completely take it in another direction. For instance, i started medicines for mental health 10yrs back for the 1st time after a big incident with him, he broke up, cheated with another girl etc. Before this, i was never on any medication. Then again, Towards the mid PhD, things were extremely bad in my lab plus i got married and riding his roller coaster ride. I was very down and always felt like staying on bed. So i again seeked medical help to help me get out of bed and get everything done. I did manage to get it done, managed the marriage, managed my Phd with two good publications fighting against the entire lab and my guide. He distorted this to tell his parents "she takes drugs and sleep late in morning".. i was waking up late(a bit) because i was staying awake all night writing my thesis after working all day in the lab, not because of medicines  - - medicines were helping me to leave the bed and get things done. But no, he tagged me as "drug addict /druggie"... i visited the doctor every month, got regular blood works done and was strictly taking medications prescribed by psychiatrist.

The problem with this is that, since there is a bit of truth, it's very easy to accept and internalise these blames. I am realising now, i have been internalising all these after marriage.

There's another question, maybe a bit personal. How did you ultimately handle these external intrusions? Or, even now, u have a daughter with BPD. are there chances that she might be wrongly influenced by your in laws, or her mother?? how do u work around this? do you have some boundaries around this? i am trying to figure out how i can minimise this in my case.


Also, as an update: Today he has again started sending the cute stickers that we always send each other. In between there was no talk after his last msgs which i didn't reply. Today's stickers, I reacted with a heart to the 1st one, and just ignored the 2nd. He simply wants us to go back to the "sweet talk mode" that we are always into. This is the most common pattern, happens every time. He feels like we will again revert back to 'normal' after anything and everything he does and we always do, because like i said, i hate conflicts, so i always give in and accept and 'normalise'.

I don't want the same thing this time. Want to say something assertively. But don't know what. His intention is that he will stay away at his old place while i stay in this apartment alone and we are long distance. I don't want this at all. I have taken this apartment so that we can stay together and it's more near to his workplace too. But even apart from that, staying long distance with him being BPD is not a good idea - - which was the main reason for me to seek the postdoc nearby our home and his workplace, so that we can still live together. So if he is looking to stay separately, i won't agree to that at all, it will damage the relationship. 2ndly, i did mention about suggesting therapy for him but honestly that is not a good idea too. There is not a single good therapist here in my place who is informed about BPD and a wrong therapist will do more harm than good. I just want him to willingly explore some changes that he can bring about to himself about his rages and his responsibilities towards the relationship - - doesn't have to much even 5% would be great. But can't force him or threaten him and say 'you change yourself', obviously that wont work if it is forced. That's why i was just keeping silent so that he can retrospect and give it a bit of thought as to what can be different. But i am feeling very confused. Should i send an assertive text regarding this? Any suggestions will mean a lot.

Thank you soo much for your continued support, can't really express what this means to me. I am so grateful.

[Pook075]

The problem with this is that, since there is a bit of truth, it's very easy to accept and internalise these blames. I am realising now, i have been internalising all these after marriage.

I did the same thing, I think everyone here does, and it leads to us having mental health challenges as our reality is warped.  Seriously, probably 80% of new members here are clinically depressed or worse.  It's so debilitating in so many different ways.

That's why focusing on your mental health right now is so critically important, so you can view this objectively and decide what you will or won't accept moving forward.  It will also help you deal with more of his toxic behavior in a healrthier manner.

There's another question, maybe a bit personal. How did you ultimately handle these external intrusions? Or, even now, u have a daughter with BPD. are there chances that she might be wrongly influenced by your in laws, or her mother?? how do u work around this? do you have some boundaries around this? i am trying to figure out how i can minimise this in my case.

Truthfully, I used to handle them badly and I tried so hard to show that I wasn't a complete jerk.  But in time I realized that all of that was outside of my control and it wasn't worth my focus...all it did was hurt me and make me lose sleep.

Those who I care about understand who I am, and those that don't know me well...I just let it go.  It's a shame in some regards because it makes these relationships so much harder, but in time those people who matter will see you for you (or they'll see the same patterns through your husband and question his viewpoints).

His mom can believe whatever she wants, and play whatever games she wants.  It's up to you whether to respond or not.  As the old adage goes, actions speak louder than words...so focus on your actions and let that tell the story.

I don't want the same thing this time. Want to say something assertively. But don't know what. His intention is that he will stay away at his old place while i stay in this apartment alone and we are long distance. I don't want this at all.

If it doesn't work for you, then it doesn't work for you.  With BPD, it's dangerous to talk about their actions or mistakes...but talking about what you feel or what you want is received much better.  So let him know; if he wants to run and pull way back, you're not interested in that because of how it makes you feel...the extra challenges in the relationship, etc.

At the same time though, expect for him to answer badly and it won't necessarily be "his truth."  This would be better as an in-person conversation so you can see the emotions and body language behind it.  Maybe at a favorite restaurant or something like that?

2ndly, i did mention about suggesting therapy for him but honestly that is not a good idea too. Should i send an assertive text regarding this? Any suggestions will mean a lot.

Normally I'd say not to bring this up at all, but if you're at a crossroads then now is as good of a time as any.  Maybe it backfires, but things are backfiring anyway and making therapy a condition of working towards fixing the marriage isn't a bad sticking point.  Truthfully, you guys need it and getting him to attend would be a huge step.

I hope that helps!

[losthope1234]

Hi pook, thanks so much for sharing your experiences with me, it really helps. I have managed to start a conversation with him yesterday where i managed to bring about a discussion about my needs, which is 1st time in ever, because moving beyond his blame games is a near- to- impossible job. I still have to communicate a lot, it's just the beginning though, don't know how far i can manage.

That's why focusing on your mental health right now is so critically important, so you can view this objectively and decide what you will or won't accept moving forward.  It will also help you deal with more of his toxic behavior in a healrthier manner.

Truthfully, I used to handle them badly and I tried so hard to show that I wasn't a complete jerk.  But in time I realized that all of that was outside of my control and it wasn't worth my focus...all it did was hurt me and make me lose sleep.

Those who I care about understand who I am, and those that don't know me well...I just let it go.  It's a shame in some regards because it makes these relationships so much harder, but in time those people who matter will see you for you (or they'll see the same patterns through your husband and question his viewpoints).

Would you be comfortable sharing about the current dynamics you have with them?? Are there can chances that your BPD daughter might be influenced against you by them??

[Pook075]

Would you be comfortable sharing about the current dynamics you have with them?? Are there can chances that your BPD daughter might be influenced against you by them??

Sure, my BPD ex wife and I are on good terms and talk when we need to (usually about the kids or something from our past.  For example, I reached out yesterday because our primary doctor retired).  It took awhile to get here but I decided that I wasn't going to argue over the past any longer and I'd only make general comments to move conversations along (for example, if she brings something up from 10 years ago, I'll say something like, "I'm sorry that still bothers you, both of us made a lot of mistakes and I wish we could go back and change them.")

Somewhere in the process, I stopped being an enemy and I gained her trust again.  But at the same time, I saw the patterns we were stuck in and realized that without treatment, I didn't want to push for reconciliation.  I feel sorry for her and I hope her life turns out the way she's hoping.

With my BPD daughter, we had a moment of clarity a few years back where we both apologized and sort of started over again.  It was a little bumpy at first, but we quickly became close and things are really good.  There's still moments she struggles, but she has completed DBT therapy and really made some huge strides with her mental illness.

There are some relationships that were ruined- primarily with all my in-laws.  Her dad still doesn't like me because my ex said that I mentally abused her, but almost everyone else has seen past that and realized who I was as a person.  I didn't try to fight those narratives though and just let things play out naturally.

And it still happens at times where my name is brought up in an unfair light, but I let it go and don't bother getting caught up in the drama.  Life's just too short to worry about things we can't control.

I hope that helps!

[losthope1234]

Thanks so much pooks for sharing I really appreciate it. Things kind of escalated, i am feeling so damaged and lost and afraid that my relationship of 18yrs will now break down

[losthope1234]

I just feel so lost and confused. Don't know what i should do. He is constantly trying to start talking again over text by the sweet talks and sweet emojis that we always send when things are 'normal'. His intention is clear.. that i should be completely okay with his moving out and even other thing he has been doing and simply continue the sweet talk and our emotional connections.. our usual talking just consist of sweet talks and NEVER anything serious, at least not of the relationship. Usually i am ok with that. He emailed me with emojis but i managed to turn it this time into serious talk and for 1st time every he said "if i have caused any problem tell me, i dont know".. yesterday I wrote him a big reply email speaking my heart out as to the problems i am facing especially regarding his splitting and his distress intolerance and somethings more. However he didn't take this well at all, even though i used "I statements" and repeated said that "this is not any accusation or blame, i just want to share my issues so that we can work together etc" .. he again raged over several email and repeatedly blamed me saying I have caused all problem, only i am responsible etc etc. I tried to stay calm and repeatedly asked him, "what can you do on your part? i am ready to take more steps to adjust or improve my part but what about you? " He totally ignored and raged and blamed me, saying he is perfect and everything is my fault. I even went to the extent of suggesting therapy and in one context also said "i agree i struggle with time management because you know i have ADHD and i will take more steps to bring more change, seek therapy, you have symptoms associated with borderline personality are you willing to work on that too, maybe just looking up online about it?" It totally enraged him and totally said his issues are nothing and only stemming because of me.  We have however previously joked and in good mood he has himself said in casual tone that he has something like split personality.

I ultimately discontinued the talk saying we will continue when you are calmer. I cried all night yesternight after this, cried thru the day too. Now in the evening, he is again replying to the same email thread with cute emojis, as if absolutely nothing has happened. I don't know what to do.

[Pook075]

I just feel so lost and confused. Don't know what i should do. He is constantly trying to start talking again over text by the sweet talks and sweet emojis that we always send when things are 'normal'. His intention is clear.. that i should be completely okay with his moving out and even other thing he has been doing and simply continue the sweet talk and our emotional connections.. our usual talking just consist of sweet talks and NEVER anything serious, at least not of the relationship. Usually i am ok with that. He emailed me with emojis but i managed to turn it this time into serious talk and for 1st time every he said "if i have caused any problem tell me, i dont know".. yesterday I wrote him a big reply email speaking my heart out as to the problems i am facing especially regarding his splitting and his distress intolerance and somethings more. However he didn't take this well at all, even though i used "I statements" and repeated said that "this is not any accusation or blame, i just want to share my issues so that we can work together etc" .. he again raged over several email and repeatedly blamed me saying I have caused all problem, only i am responsible etc etc. I tried to stay calm and repeatedly asked him, "what can you do on your part? i am ready to take more steps to adjust or improve my part but what about you? " He totally ignored and raged and blamed me, saying he is perfect and everything is my fault. I even went to the extent of suggesting therapy and in one context also said "i agree i struggle with time management because you know i have ADHD and i will take more steps to bring more change, seek therapy, you have symptoms associated with borderline personality are you willing to work on that too, maybe just looking up online about it?" It totally enraged him and totally said his issues are nothing and only stemming because of me.  We have however previously joked and in good mood he has himself said in casual tone that he has something like split personality.

I ultimately discontinued the talk saying we will continue when you are calmer. I cried all night yesternight after this, cried thru the day too. Now in the evening, he is again replying to the same email thread with cute emojis, as if absolutely nothing has happened. I don't know what to do.

I'm so sorry that the conversations were not what you were hoping for.  It's heartbreaking.  That's his truth though, that he's not ready to take personal accountability.  A lot of people struggle there, it's not exclusively a BPD or mental health thing. 

The blame-shifting is absolutely a BPD thing though and it's very tough to deal with.  I'm sure he cares for you and wants things to work, but at the same time that also makes you his scapegoat when things are tough.  He chooses to ignore his own issues and cast blame outward.  Once he's over that, he's back to being loving and caring...because he feels like the good guy being the bigger person.  He simply can't see that the chaos comes from him.

This is the sad reality of a BPD relationship...it's mega-tough at times and you're placed in positions where his emotional needs are in direct contrast to yours.  It's not fair at all and we all have to choose if that's the life we want to actively pursue.  That choice is yours though, and it will always be yours.

Earlier we talked about your mental health, and how it should always come first.  How are you handling situations like these to keep yourself in a better head-space?  What's your support network look like?  I know you're busy with work and school; are you taking time for yourself and pursuing any hobbies or other interests?  Talk that out a little bit, what your "me-time" looks like.

I'm asking because you can't fix him, but you can focus on your own mental/physical needs and still improve the relationship if that's the path you decide.