Struggling Emotionally with the separation

[daverisk]

My uBPD wife and I have been separated for just short of three weeks.  I have the four children with me in our flat S11, D8, D7, D4 (in April).  She is seeing a therapist and undergoes a psychiatric evaluation on 23 March... .hopefully she'll get a dx then, whether it's BPD or something else.

I originally thought the separation would be a duration of two or three weeks... .at this point, it's looking like months.  She says she doesn't want a divorce, but she is enjoying the lifestyle she's living now and isn't ready to come back home yet.  She says for the first time in a long time she looks forward to seeing me and the children.  She even asked me last night if this made her a bad mother. 

The injured part of me wanted to say... .yes... .it makes you a bad mom and wife for putting your family through this.  The way I actually responded was that "no, you're working on yourself."

Also, our story about her being gone because she's staying at grandma's to help her is wearing thin with the kids.  S11 knows... .I'm pretty sure... .that this is a marital issue and Mom isn't at grandma's... .he is one of the two kids that saw me beat her lover.  D8 is beginning to suspect something... .yesterday she just flat out asked... .'where's Mom at."  At some point SO and I need to tell the kids some of the truth.  I worry about D7 because she hasn't asked anything... .I'm afraid she's bottling this up inside... .and that isn't good.  Another part of the emotional pain for me is that D4 transitioned from crying because Mom isn't here when she wakes up, to asking where mommy is at in the morning, then to simply saying "Mommy isn't here" when she wakes up, and now no comment at all about Mommy... .my heart is breaking for the pain my children are going through... .and I'm grieving the loss of all my dreams... .everything I've worked for... .my entire focus for the last 10 years has been building a future for my wife and children... .and now all that seems to be melting away a drop... .a day... .at a time.

She started therapy in January... .before our crisis (see "Where do I even begin" if you want the background).  Early on in her therapy her counselor mentioned a 3 month inpatient treatment.  She says she is STRONGLY considering this now.  Then again, she also mentioned getting a one-room flat... .she's currently staying with a mutual friend... .and that becomes a much longer term separation with questionable results at best.

I told her last night... .and on at least two other occasions... .that I don't want her back home until she's ready to be here... .ready to work at being both a wife and mother... .so I guess I'm focusing on boundaries right now.  One of my concerns is that as the newness of the job she started last week wears off, and the newness of the separation... .lack of responsibilities... .and she gets bored that she'll start acting out again.  Where are my boundaries?  If she goes into party-girl mode it will be quite difficult for me emotionally... .if she starts seeing guys (whether openly or in secret... .I think that is a real boundary that if crossed I need to cut my losses... .but I'm not even sure on that one... .and then also... .how long do I give her to make up her mind on what she wants to do?  I can't see being frozen in time like I am right now for a year.

Do I explain to her what my boundaries are in this regard?  This is also complicated by some physical issues she's going through... .a few years ago she had a complete hysterectomy and didn't get hormone replacement therapy... .as a result she has been developing cysts in her vaginal wall and bladder.  She may need to undergo bladder surgery... .which probably puts here home before she's ready.  She's been having bad migraines an is doing some type of brain scan next week... .and were both frightened by what they might find.  So, if she decides on the 3 month in-patient it will have to wait until at least May (presuming she undergoes the bladder surgery to remove the cyst).  That takes us to August... .and then she might decide she doesn't want to be with me/us.

I cried last night after this discussion... .me... .the tough 52 year old retired soldier who recently beat the tar out of her 22 year old cousin/lover... .crying like a baby.  I can't do that in front of her, that's for sure... .  or the kids... .I am emotionally exhausted... .I'm trying to figure out how to get through the conversation with the kids where we explain Mommy and Daddy are separated without falling apart.

I know these are things I need to discuss with my therapist... .but I'm venting... .looking for advice... .looking for, what? empathy? 

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[Notwendy]

This is a tough situation- being a single parent to your children, their questions, fears and worries for your wife- some what if questions ( will she be a party girl, be with another man, etc).

Your wife is having some psychological issues and is awaiting diagnosis. I know this is tough, but perhaps you are looking at the situation, grieving the way you saw things- a stable wife and mother vs reality- that she isn't behaving in the way you had hoped.

What are your boundaries? They are a part of who you are. They reflect your values. You can not control if she parties, seeks out guys. Your part is to decide what you can tolerate. If infidelity is a deal breaker to you, then your only choice is to decide that if she does cheat ( again) that you can not be in a relationship with her. You can't control her decision to do this or not.

You do have some time- as she is awaiting treatment. For now though, I think it is good that you are seeing a T, and taking care of the kids. Yes, the older ones are asking questions.

I think it is good to be honest but with boundaries and not TMI to the older kids. Perhaps your T can help you decide how to tell them that Mommy and Daddy are trying to work out some things right now - but that Dad loves you and will take care of you no matter what. I think what kids worry about is that if Dad and Mom stop loving each other- will they stop loving them. Also they fear they did something to cause it. Kids are developmentally self centered and have some magical thinking. Consider that their questions are less about getting information about what is going on between the two of you, then about what will happen to them. Turning the question to reassure them that you will always love them and be their Daddy could go a long way.

If the two of you are separated, this could also be an opportunity to gain some insight to your part in this, any of your FOO issues, co-dependent/rescuer tendencies, how you manage emotions/anger. Self work pays off in all relationships- whether or not this one works out.

[daverisk]

Notwendy,

Thanks... .it is tough being a single parent... .I did it for almost five years with my older set of kids... .they were both in diapers when I became a single Dad.  They weren't old enough to ask questions.

You're correct, I'm grieving the way I pictured things vs. the way they actually were.  I am also truly grieving the loss of dreams/goals/etc because those were all tied to a future with my wife and an intact family.  I'm also grieving the way things used to be between my wife and I... .her changes were progressive... .and while she did lie to me about her past she was a loving wife and mother... .or a good actress... .for the first half of our life together.

Yes, I am becoming aware that the boundaries are mine and do not constrain her in any way.  That is where part of my blame in this comes... .when I set boundaries before they were designed to contain her and change her behavior... .rules... ."no, you can't meet guys I don't know to have lunch or coffee without telling me about it first."  "No... .you can't have these sexting partners"... ."If you go out with your girlfriends 3:30 is a good time to be home"... .they were rules for her rather than boundaries for me.

I've also got to change my way of thinking about suspicion... .some of her behavior has warranted suspicion... .some hasn't.  I'm not walking the two blocks down the street to see if her car is parked at the friend's house where she is staying... .although I was tempted... (does changing behavior change thinking... .something to discuss with the T). 

She is communicating her feelings more... .part of her reaction yesterday... .her telling me she wanted to stay away for a while... .was prompted because I was rather cold and standoffish when she visited yesterday.  I was... .I explained to her today that I know what I want... .nothing has changed... .that I have good days and bad days emotionally (today has been a good day)... .I told her that we... .I and the kids... .are either waiting for her to get here to visit... .and when she's here we know she's going to leave... .so that it's difficult (especially this week with the kids off school and me not working [I'm a teacher] due to Spring Break)... .but that doesn't mean I don't want her back... .and told her if she senses I'm just waiting for her to leave... .or something... .to ask about it.  At least we're trying to talk about our feelings rather than holding grudges.  I pointed to the fact that I had bought her flowers yesterday as a sign that I haven't changed my mind about anything.  I won't beg her to come back... .but as long as she's doing the one thing I have demanded... .therapy... .she can come back when she's ready... .but not before.

Yep, still trying to figure out WHAT to tell the kids... .and when... .but definitely have and will continue to take their questions as opportunities to reassure them that both Mom and Dad love them... .and will always be Mom and Dad.

I'm really not sure where my boundaries are... .going into this new arrangement I knew that there was a strong likelihood she would have sexting sessions for at least a while... .and I knew there was a possibility of another fling... .but I'm not sure where my boundary is... .the "party girl" would be tough on me emotionally... .but I might survive that... .not sure about an affair... .no matter the circumstances... .T time.

I definitely have the rescuer issue... .not sure about co-dependency and have always hated that phrase.  I did some relatively intense therapy with a psychiatrist back in 2010... .ordered by my Bishop in order to marry in the Catholic Church (we'd already had a civil ceremony in 2008)... .the biggest area addressed was childhood sexual abuse... .but also the rescuer/fixer issues... .maybe I need a repeat.  I definitely need to figure out how to manage the emotions I'm feeling... .anger, betrayal, just plain hurt, love, fear, sympathy and a host of other feelings are all inside fighting for some type of exit or relief... .beating her lover in front of my children was not an appropriate expression of anger... .I'm angry with my wife but have no idea what to do with that anger... .beyond the initial argument it hasn't surfaced... .and I don't want to keep it inside... .it needs to be vented... .appropriately.

Yep, I agree, gotta work on me because that's the only one I can "fix."

[stayingsteady]

Wow Daverisk,

The depth of your situation and you're overall ability to handle it appropriately, analyze your options before making hasty decisions, and continue to push forward is definitely awe inspiring.  It takes a strong person to do what you're doing and from what I have read from your posts your doing it extremely well.

There are six people you deeply care for who are directly affected by this situation, yourself, your wife, and your four children.  Balancing the needs of each party in such a way that it can provide the best overall, long-term, result for each person can be extremely challenging, and it seems your meeting this as well.

I feel the boundary you placed stating that you would prefer she doesn't come home until she is ready to be a wife and a mother is a good boundary.  However, as you mentioned in the post, she may need to come home earlier due to some medical issues.  I can understand why you may need to adjust your boundary because of this situation.  If this does occur, perhaps you may want to think about what boundaries could be best if she chooses to move back in.  

Because of what she is dealing with, there is a strong chance she may manipulate her sicknesses in order to avoid your boundaries.  You may want to keep this in mind when you create and enforce your boundaries as well.

Overall, I think you're doing a phenomenal job, and it's a job most people would be unable to handle.  Your family has been extremely blessed to have a father as strong as you to be there while they are going through this ordeal.  Keep it up!

Hoping the best for you and your family,

- Staying Steady

[daverisk]

Stayingsteady,

Thanks for your words of encouragement.  From the inside looking out it's a mess.  I'm definitely in survival mode... .being able to focus on the kids really helps.  Definitely in a holding pattern for the time being... .I have the (dis)ability to make hasty decisions and I'm trying to avoid that.

[Notwendy]

I thought you mentioned in another post that your wife was younger than you are. How old is she? Is she the mother of all the children?

She asked if she was a bad mother? I don't think I would use these terms. I think my own BPD mother was a "bad" mother in this sense, but she wasn't all bad. A mother who is overwhelmed by her own emotional issues isn't likely to be able to cope with the task of mothering 24/7.  My mother was OK when things were going well. School holidays and summers were tough as we were home all day.

Fortunately my father realized this and was able to hire sitters. On breaks, we often stayed with his relatives. It didn't hurt us. We loved staying with our cousins. Sitters can sometimes be like older siblings to young children and play with them. While you do have older kids, getting a sitter for the younger ones can give them a break too.

I know there is the concern that she would go into party mode. This is a common social scene for young people. People our age ( I'm about your age ) trying to hang out with them in a bar might be seen as creepy. I don't think it is appropriate to cheat at any age, and I myself didn't enjoy the party scene, but I can understand a young person feeling tied down with four children and wanting to do things with friends in her age group.

By the time I had kids, I had outgrown this scene, but that didn't mean I didn't want a break once in a while from being a mom ,and spend time with friends. For me, that might mean going out to the movies with some women friends, but your wife may not be at this stage yet.

The cousin thing was not appropriate, reflects poor boundaries. But I can also see maybe a wish to be with similar age people sometimes. Just not like that.

I hope she gets therapy for her issues. However, I also wonder if there are ways she can be your wife, a mother to the kids, and also just be her- at whatever stage she is. I know there are many marriages that include age differences that work out. You would not have been together if it didn't work in many ways. But age differences can also indicate a difference in where someone is at in their stage of life with regards to peers. If all your same age peers are partying, then it makes sense to want to be with them in the way you can. Inviting them over to watch cartoons might not work so well. I get the concern about cheating, but wonder if there is a way to include her wish to be with her friends sometimes.

[daverisk]

Notwendy,

My wife is 30.  She is the mother of all four children with us in the Czech Republic S11, D8, D7, D4.  Our son is not my biological child but I adopted him in September.

Yes, she told me she was enjoying her life as it is now... .because she looked forward to seeing me and the children each day, then goes to work (brand new job... .only a week at it) and then goes to our friend's to sleep.  Her specific words were "does that make me a bad mother."  These are words I've NEVER used with her... .and I think this is still part of that dichotomy of wanting to be a good wife and mother and wanting to have the freedom and lack of responsibilities of an 18.  She's a very good and loving mother with some issues.

I understand that it can be overwhelming for her... .a mother since 19... .a wife since 21... .four kids... .I do try to help her as much as possible with the kids and the house work.  It's only recently that I realized how important it is for her to have work outside the home... .that providing an identity that she needs.

She has some significant FOO issues that are also... .Dad in prison about the time she was born... .mother abandoned her with paternal grandmother at six months... .if grandma woke up in a bad mood she got beat... .FOO issues really suck.

I don't try to keep up with her on the party scene... .she really doesn't do bars... .it's either house parties or dance clubs... .but I do like to go to dances with her... .and our circle of friends seem to enjoy me when I go out with them... .and we generally have a great time when we're out together... .my concern is when she is going out with people I don't know... .or those I do know of highly questionable morals... .and coming home at 6 AM... .and the number of times she was going out... .but on this arena I think we actually have come to a pretty good compromise... .

Even before all the evidence smacked me upside the head my concern about the cousin (age 22) is that he was feeding that part of her that wants to be 18 and carefree... .in an unhealthy manner... .and I even mentioned this to her... .to no avail obviously.

She's doing the therapy... .and she can be a wife, a mother, and herself... .although that to an extent.  If herself is continued sexting and hook ups, then the wife part comes into question... .she and I also need to figure out the communication and trust angle... .part of the trust issue is mine... .part of it hers... .things like taking out a loan for her dad without telling me... .which I ended up paying... .or another loan for $1500 that went God knows where... .and another for just under $1000 when she has an independent income of only $100... .which I will not pay... .a traffic violation for which she had to make a court appearance... .I'm thinking as her husband I should have known about these things at least and maybe even had a voice in the decision.

I'm beginning to see areas where I've been a bit overbearing... .I still don't think it unreasonable to be informed that she's meeting a male friend I don't know for coffee or dinner... .but maybe it is.  She has several male friends that I know whom she meets for coffee, or who come over when I'm at work... .and I have no issues with it... .and she usually mentions it after the fact "Tom stopped by today."... .but if she's meeting a guy I've never met before and keeping it a secret then I start to get suspicious... .these are areas we'll both need to work at.

I don't know, I think I've been more than accommodating on letting her be with her friends... .but I'm seeing it from my side... .there's still a lot of work for the two of us to do... .and she has agreed to the marriage counseling so we can work on trust and communication... .and she is doing her therapy... .and I mine... .so now we start the hard work.

[Notwendy]

Boundaries are hard to enforce on someone else. I agree that sexting and hooking up isn't appropriate in a marriage, going out with the girls on occasion is. I personally wouldn't go out dancing alone if married, but fun to do with a spouse. I do think you have the right to be concerned about the boundaries with men and potential for crossing a line.

People with BPD do tend to have poor boundaries- with other people, with spending money. It is a difficult thing. However, BPD doesn't absolve them of being accountable for their behavior. That is something to keep in mind when it comes to your own boundaries of what you feel you want in a relationship.

I think the issue that concerns you is that, when someone has poor boundaries, it isn't easy to resist the attention of someone else. Someone with strong boundaries could potentially go out dancing, and then say "sorry I am married" if someone was interested. The problem isn't the going to the dance- but that it could give the impression that she is available. In this situation, you do have to trust her, but if she has demonstrated in the past that she can not resist this attention, I can see how it concerns you. Still, she is free to go where she wants and could attract attention anywhere. The solution is - what is her boundary? It is very hard to control from your side of this.

I am glad for you that she is in therapy. I hope that this helps keep the marriage together and that the two of you can come to an agreement about her socializing that works for both of you.

[daverisk]

Notwendy,

Yes, the concern is where are her boundaries.  I can't establish those for her... .I can only establish mine... .both in what I will and won't do... .and in what I will and won't accept.  She loves attention... .I'm hoping her therapy will help her establish boundaries that are appropriate.

Part of the complicating factor is that here in the Czech Republic it's not uncommon for couples to go out separately.  For example, my cultural frame of reference concerning class reunions is that you take your spouse to the class reunion... .that was part of the fun of my 25 year reunion was seeing who married local and who found a "catch" outside the pond... .although my wife was in the Czech Republic visiting when I went to my 25 year reunion.  Here in CR spouses are generally not welcome at class reunions unless they were part of the class.  So my wife went to her 10 year reunion without me... .and it's where she reconnected with one of her serial sexting partners.

My boundaries... .at the company Christmas party (also generally attended without spouses) one of the secretaries was tipsy and hitting on me.  Flattered but also a bit tipsy... .I left early... .I'm not a saint... .things could happen... .I know that and left early.  My wife goes on a girls night out... .gets tipsy... .gets attention from a female friend she recently met... .and ends up in a hot kissing session with her.  My wife leans bi... .had several female lovers before we married... .and at least one since we married... .oddly enough the female friend is hetero... .and yes... .I'm enough of a typical guy that her kissing another girl didn't bother me EXCEPT that I don't trust that this type of behavior isn't also repeated with guys... .which would bother me quite a bit.

I understand that a dx of BPD explains her behavior, but does not excuse her behavior.  I can't control her... .and that is what I've attempted to do in the past... .which just pushes her away and makes her more secretive... .which makes me more suspicious and controlling ... .it's a vicious cycle.  My hope is the therapy will help both of us with establishing acceptable boundaries for ourselves.

[Notwendy]

I think you have described a difference in boundaries. I think it is good that you are self aware- you are not a saint, but even saintly people are human and accept that part of them- and keep boundaries.

We are human, and attraction is instinct to us. It is a very powerful drive. Even some very pious men accept that this is a part of being human and they are human. I have heard that Billy Graham made a personal rule to not be alone with a woman not related to him. Orthodox Jews have similar rules. It isn't because being alone with a woman is sinful. It's because- if you aren't alone with a woman, the opportunity to cheat isn't there.

Probably most of us don't keep such stringent rules for ourselves, but the same idea can help us avoid trouble - like you leaving early from the party to avoid trouble.

Even if a couple only socialized together, it is impractical to watch someone 24/7.  In general, boundaries reflect our personal values - whether or not someone thinks it is OK for themselves to be married and hook up with others, or that it is not. I hope her therapy can help both of you with this situation.