BPD/NPD ex gf discarded me almost 2 months ago after 2.5 years

[chitownbpd312]

Hey fellas.  Gonna make this quick.  Honeymoon lasted extremely long, I'd say almost 1.25 years.  At the time I was still the interesting, handsome, minor league baseball player who she had to elevate her status as she dumped all her friends and focused exclusively on me (should've seen it coming... .love bombing as I would later find out.  Almost a psychotic strategy to blind me)... .

I got sick around 1.5 years in from a lung disease I caught, and I had surgery to remove the infection.  At this point maybe the tables turned and I wasn't so "White" as I had been, but she seemed good at caring me back to health.  Fast forward to last fall.  End of the fall.  After a good summer of me on my feet and working out (albeit she wasn't coming to the gym like she did before - mirroring me like she did in 2015 when she was still fascinated by the pro athlete thing)... .fall we started to fight here and there.  At thanksgiving she was still tweeting about my parents being inlaws.

The last 6 weeks of the relationship seemed to be filled with made up fights about nothing, silent treatments (that I didn't mind to be honest), and numbness/disinterest in me in general by her.  And then bam, in February one day she wants "space."  I laugh at this and once I realize she's serious start to rip into her for being selfish.  And a bad girlfriend in general for almost a year.  I then try to win her back (because of course, I don't have a clue what BPD is) and then eventually I find this website.  For two weeks or so I have been NC (she didn't respond to a thing anyway) and I have suspected since early in the breakup and have since confirmed she has a patsy new fling from her play cast (she was in a park district theatre production in late March - yippee, glad I didn't have to go to that crap) to replace ME.

I laugh because she was in awe of me being a typical jock with good looks compared to her more typical dorky and ogreish boyfriends of the past (she always had weird taste for a good looking girl - or she just liked to be the boss)... .well after me being the one she'd marry and the love of her life and a very long honeymoon where she road my coatails (and who knows maybe she cheated when I was gone) - she leaves me and she won't even call this loser her BF.

He tried to make them his profile pic, and took it down on the same night.  I haven't checked in a few weeks, nor do I want to.  But what gives.  This guy is sincerely ugly and he even bleaches his hair (who does that)... .I feel like she has two "core" girlfriends from their same friends group in this play cast she values more, and this guy is just for really bad sex?  I don't know. Makes it hurt less.  May sound superficial, but he's a significant downgrade and I now have the attention of some very nice late twenty year old women who I never thought would be available because they were engaged or in a relationship back when I met my BPD ex in 2014.

Do they really give no ___s about looks in a man/sex life?  This guy might just make it because she's completely different now.  She used to be pretty cool.  Liked the whole jock/country music and concerts type thing I was into.   Even her interests going to festivals and restaurants it was all pretty fun.  Now all she does is listen to broadway musical music all day (I follow her on Spotify) and she joined another park district play cast.  SO boring... .And I am pretty sure she went with numbnuts to a Simple Plan concert, but the guy loves Disney movies and is a total p*ssy.

She used to be so attracted to my masculinity.  But aren't all pwBPD a trainwreck at some point?

Was wondering if your exes downgraded after being very attracted to you... .

[OptimusRhyme]

Well, I'm gonna come out and ask what might be a difficult counter question -

How does your judgment of the new guy help you?

If her tastes now run so counter to yours that's it's unappealing, then one of two things is happening. Either THESE are her real tastes, in which case you guys weren't gonna work out anyway, or this is a reaction she's employing to reject her real tastes (for your handsome, masculine sensibilities) and ward off the pain of a failed relationship (in which case that guy is in the unenviable position of being used as a really transparent crutch).

If the first is true, what's the use in belittling him (or her former partners)? They weren't your type of folks, anyways, and while it may be unfair recompense, by wrecking the relationship, she has unwittingly given you the gift of your time back, time you can use to find people who share your tastes and general standards for good relationship behavior (which it seems you have been, what with the late 20s ladies and such).

If the second is true, what's the use in belittling him? Would you rather be in his shoes?

I ask all this because, and this is going to sound mildly narcissistic myself, but -

I have no idea who my replacement is. If it's up to me, I never will. But the chances that he's NOT a downgrade are vanishingly small. I'm a pretty fantastic and fantastically capable person, and looking back, I'm fairly satisfied with the patience, love, and grace I acquitted myself with in the face of the confusion and pain of my ex's behavior/condition.

But that didn't stop me from experiencing huge amounts of pain, anxiety, insecurity, and frustration. The more I read about BPD, the more I kept coming across the sentiment that their condition has almost nothing to do with you personally, or that there is no quality of character or intelligence of action that you can take to fix them, etc etc. And the more I accepted that this sentiment resonated with my experience, the easier it was to see my anger and judgment, and their manifestations, for what they are - ego defense.

It then became clear that I felt pity (or maybe compassion, I'm not sure yet) towards her and her future suitors, not envy or anger. The uselessness of my pity (after all, who am I to judge? She is entitled to her choices and values) led me to realize my time is best spent not at all concerning myself with her, and living up to the high self image and quality of life I envision for myself. The more I focus on my actions, my character, what lessons I can take from my choices and mistakes and issues in the relationship, and less on the offenses she did my person, the more power I have to become the person I claim to be so satisfied with. I fail at this all the time, but seeing my own actions for what they are has helped immensely (I think/hope!)

[chitownbpd312]

 I love the mention of narcissism.  It's so true though.  But what I was really trying to type were that these were all things SHE SAID to me about me in relation to who she dated.  Maybe not the precise wording but almost DEAD on.  The judgements I make of the next guy are my own... .But I see how she treats him is similar to some BPD rebounds here where the person isn't specific at all.

So what I wonder is, she is quite NPD sometimes in how she treats me post-relationship (before my NC and discovery of BPD) and she has projected all these qualities on me during her love bombing.

What I wonder is if she simply though I was the one good enough for her by projecting all this... .then why go to a clear downgrade?  Problem is, I am very superficial of who I date, but not so much myself =)... .I don't know.  I have higher opinions of many people, which is why its funny to meet an athlete.  Constant rejection exposure, makes you always know there is someone better - but then SHE comes along and lovebombs me into another status level.  Funny really.

But I don't really feel better or worse.  And I think the real reason I came this far in my quest was to understand.  This was a weird breakup and dating experience in general.

I don't get if attraction truly matters to these people?

EDIT: Also forgot I should mention I do not want to be in the current lovers shoes.  She is super into plays, she does things I find boring now and what I read is the BPD post-breakup is a new version of themself and no longer the one we knew, nor will they ever be.  Makes it easier, and helps you understand why nons are mentally stable to their unstable.  Can't ever work logically... .can it?

[OptimusRhyme]

What I wonder is if she simply though I was the one good enough for her by projecting all this... .then why go to a clear downgrade?  Problem is, I am very superficial of who I date, but not so much myself =)... .I don't know.  I have higher opinions of many people, which is why its funny to meet an athlete.  Constant rejection exposure, makes you always know there is someone better - but then SHE comes along and lovebombs me into another status level.  Funny really.

But I don't really feel better or worse.  And I think the real reason I came this far in my quest was to understand.  This was a weird breakup and dating experience in general.

I don't get if attraction truly matters to these people?

EDIT: Also forgot I should mention I do not want to be in the current lovers shoes.  She is super into plays, she does things I find boring now and what I read is the BPD post-breakup is a new version of themself and no longer the one we knew, nor will they ever be.  Makes it easier, and helps you understand why nons are mentally stable to their unstable.  Can't ever work logically... .can it?

Well, I'm gonna armchair the hell out of this one, so somebody please come yell at me and tell me to stop it, but it would seem to me that, especially because you're a professional athlete and have grown up with the paradigm that achievement and success are entirely merit and competition-based, it probably is unnatural for you to encounter a situation where the quality of the input has absolutely no correlation to the success of the outcome.

I know that was one of the more jarring facets of my experience with BPD, and it completely disasbled my ability to gauge my quality and validity from the feedback of the relationship, and generated a lot of insecurity and pain. Anger and judgment were big parts of manifesting that frustration, and when I read stuff like "pansy, pussy, and ugly" in your post, it strikes me as a familiar kind of vitriol.

Thing is, for me anyways, trying to derive that sort of feedback and validation from a disordered person and relationship was an unhealthy mistake on my part, and one which, unlike trying to seek validation about the quality of my person from helping and fixing her, I could actually control and learn from.

Why did she downgrade? I've heard it suggested before, and I find it easy to buy myself, that she downgraded precisely because he had a lower self image/higher likelihood of codependency/more easily controlled/etc etc. If BPD is rooted in shame and trauma, and one of its biggest symptoms is controlling the narrative and depth of relationships so that they can feel the pursuit of intimacy and (self) acceptance and love without the danger of ever actually achieving it, then yeah, except for a shallow threshold, the actual identity makeup of replacement suitors doesn't seem to matter much. (edit - I should point out, this would logically mean that OUR identity and quality didn't mean much either. After all, we were someone else's replacement).

The more important thing that I came to understand, is what my insecurity about her judgments and evaluations of me, and the way I express and struggle with that insecurity, means to my emotional health and habits. Why was I affected so much by the idealization, and why did I ignore the healthy boundaries I originally upheld?

Similarly, my ex told me oodles about her past lovers, and how I was such a departure, and about how her friends always joked that she'd be the one to get married early because she was obsessed with finding real love. I have no idea how much of her attraction to me was because I'm awesome, and how much was because I was a warm body who lent an ear and a shoulder one too many times. Should it matter to my sense of self worth? Not really.

I have no idea if BPD can be cured or managed to the extent that one suffering from it can achieve a logical relationship based on healthy values. I also know that, what ends the questioning thoughts for me, is that I don't have the time to find out. There are too many wonderful non-disordered people in this world and this lifetime to worry about it.

[chitownbpd312]

Well, I'm gonna armchair the hell out of this one, so somebody please come yell at me and tell me to stop it, but it would seem to me that, especially because you're a professional athlete and have grown up with the paradigm that achievement and success are entirely merit and competition-based, it probably is unnatural for you to encounter a situation where the quality of the input has absolutely no correlation to the success of the outcome.

That is, dead on... .wow!

I guess what I am thinking then now is nothing rational will ever explain this.  Like you can explain an illness but you can't ever really make sense of it.  I think THAT is why idealization affected me so much and devaluation at least shocked my world for a few weeks.  I'm okay now, but I still was seeking answers until now and I think you got it.  There is no real answer except for what they need to feel.  To be chased, to be wanted, etc... .they don't see it like a normal girl.  I guess the set of rules I've used my whole life is just what sane women have told me causes attraction.  Other than that, yeah.  This was one of a kind .

[BlackHoleSun]

Hey Chitown!

Firstly, I have to be honest, there is nothing in your original post that points toward your exgf having BPD. It all sounds pretty normal to me. Maybe you can add some more detail about her words, actions, behaviour etc to back up why you believe that she might be suffering with the disorder? That would be a great help and give people more to go on in terms of helping you out.

Again just being honest... .what I AM getting from your post, is that you're essentially saying you are - incredibly successful, very good looking, talented, highly intelligent, very interesting, superior to other people and just generally a totally awesome Alpha male etc... .yet you seem to be really bothered about your exgf's new guy and her exes more than anything else. It sounds like there may be some insecurity issues going on here. Possibly something for you to look into? Your post also makes you sound rather narcissistic, which I'm sure can't have been your intention, unless you're a Narcissist?

Also going from your own words, it sounds as though you also view yourself as being "superior" to and "above" your ex? You even clearly state that you did not care about her interests outside of yours, or respect her wishes at times and also belittled her. That doesn't sound too healthy at all. Maybe you just came across badly in your post? As I say, it would be good if you are able to post more details.

Ok, some info to the questions you were asking... .

People that suffer with BPD are exactly that. They're people. They're first and foremost, human beings. They're all individuals. They're all different. They just happen to suffer from a personality disorder, which essentially comes down to a core trauma, emotional dysregulation and subsequent learnt dysfunctional coping mechanisms. BPD is also an attachment disorder too. It is the disorder itself that leads to similar behaviours in different people and those behaviours are essentially the symptoms of the disorder itself. It is no different to someone displaying with a broken leg or a common cold in that regard.

BPD is also a spectrum disorder, so has levels of severity and can also be broken down into sub-types. It can be "co-morbid" with other personality disorders or mental health problems and can be associated with various physical problems too. It's an incredibly complex disorder. It can go into remission though and sufferers can recover through learning healthy coping skills.

Who are people with BPD attracted to? Other people, just the same as anybody else! There certainly aren't "downgrades" or "upgrades". That's a rather childish and unhealthy way of viewing relationships! There are just different relationships with different people and with different relationship dynamics.

Having said that many people with BPD are attracted to certain people due to the positive attention they may provide them with, in order to bolster the deficit of how they want to feel, which essentially acts as Narcissistic Supply. All Borderlines are Narcissistic but not all Narcissists are Borderlines. In other words they can become "attached" to pretty much anyone, but then again so can a perfectly healthy person! With BPD it's just for unhealthy reasons.

However, many people with BPD primarily get into relationships with a couple of types of people... .

1. The Emotionally Unavailable. Emotional Unavailablity can come in many forms such as being married, only interested in a sexual relationship, someone that is Narcissistic etc. This suits the Borderline as it means they do not have to deal with the incredibly difficult feelings that are triggered through being in a loving, close, genuinely caring relationship, that has true emotional intimacy. That is what many people with BPD really want but, their disorder can stop them from having. Being with an emotionally unavailable person mirrors the experience they had from their "bad parent", "devaluing parent". They are constantly giving, chasing and so tend to stay interested for longer.

2. The Codependent. Codependents tend to focus all their energy on fixing their partners, or their relationship's problems, as a way of avoiding fixing themselves. They are "people pleasers" (though may actually resent this), fixers and rescuers. Many people with BPD are "people pleasers" and Codependents themselves. Being with a Codependent works for a person with BPD as they get the love and care that mirrors the "good parent" or "idealised parent". This will inevitably trigger their painful feelings attached to their core wound and in time their dysfunctional coping mechanisms. However the Codependent will put up with the dysfunction, and try to fix it, where other healthy people would detach themselves from the relationship. This leads to the relationship lasting longer.

More importantly... .you say you fell for the idealisation phase. NO healthy balanced person falls for the idealisation phase of a disordered person. To fall for this you have to be disordered yourself! Any healthy, balanced individual will feel incredibly uncomfortable during this phase, realise that there is something amiss, and DETACH FROM THE RELATIONSHIP!

There are 2 types of people that fall for the idealisation phase... .

1. The Insecure/low self esteem. The validation gained from the Borderline, makes them feel good about themselves and boosts their low self esteem. However, many of these people realise something is wrong! Due to their low self esteem and insecurities however, they are not able to detach themselves from the relationship.

2. Narcissists. Narcissists essentially have a "hyper critical false self" and a "superior false self". The superior false self is boosted by the Borderline's idealisation and validation. They hear everything they love to hear about themselves and it reinforces their false belief that they are "god like" and superior to other people.

Hope that helps! Feel free to post more details about your past relationship. Happy to help as are others here!

Take it easy man!

[happendtome]

Well, downgrading for me isnt about looks. Downgrading for me is about  choosing someone who has little intelligence, criminal background etc. Im sorry to say, but maybe she just saw that theres nothing else to talk with you than about gym, muscles etc. Sorry, people break up very often, its not always about BPD

[FallenOne]

Was wondering if your exes downgraded after being very attracted to you... .

I'm not trying to toot my own horn here, but I'm a 32 year old male who is in good physical shape, has a college degree, lots of goals and interests, a good paying job in my field, my own place, two nice cars, money in the bank and very little baggage... .

My bisexual ex downgraded to an overweight bulldike looking lesbian who lives with her mom and has no job... .

Answer your question?

Her reasoning? Probably because I had the balls to stand up for myself during her rages and other crazy behavior, and my replacement takes everything that is thrown at her and asks no questions. She's a doormat in other words. She went to her because she's safer for my ex's feelings and emotions...

[vortex of confusion]

First off, take BPD out of the equation for a second. Generally speaking, women are not as visual as mean. Attraction can happen for a whole lot of different reasons. Some of those reasons have nothing to do with looks or money or intelligence. Maybe it is something as simple as eye color or how a person walks. Trying to figure out what another person is thinking or why they are doing something is not productive or helpful. I have spent a whole lot of time trying to figure out why ex did the things that he did. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter why he did it. It just matters that he did it and it hurt.

As far as upgrade and downgrade. . . we are all people not grades of beef. 

Being dumped or rejected hurts. I know it is easy to want to look at who they are with now and tell yourself that you are so much better. It is an attempt to stroke your own ego and regain some of the self esteem that was lost because of the relationship. It works a lot better when you try to put your ego aside and focus on yourself and the fact that it hurts. Letting yourself be hurt by the end of the relationship is much more productive than throwing stones at your replacement.

[Huh?]

   BlackHoleSun

That was an excellent post. Very informative, thank you!