Why can't I stop this?

[Larmoyant]

I am an emotionally messed up person. I have been here for a long time and know better yet here I am again. Still keeping my distance, but seemingly unable to completely walk away. I got so close, a week or so ago. I’d decided to change my phone because I mostly couldn’t stop myself from answering when he contacted me. It was keeping me stuck, preventing me from living my life properly. I was talking about it on here when he texted me, invisible bonds, seriously it makes me wonder.

He was in pain, recovering from knee surgery, couldn’t walk the dog properly. I empathised careful not to go into caretaker mode and save the day. If I’d offered I truly believe he would have rejected me anyway. He does that. He wasn’t happy and yesterday, I received a barrage of emails attacking, blaming, projecting, accusing, the typical borderline stuff. I was able to step back, just, but at what price, it hurt.

He has now switched from ‘angry mode’ to ‘abandoned child mode’ and it’s truly heartbreaking. He has apologised 8 times in one short email. He’s sorry for ever having hurt me, will always love me. Wishes me well. He has never apologised like this before. He sounds desperate and I think all of this is my fault for responding in the first place. Of course it is.

He’s hurting. I’m hurting. I have responded with firmness, but kindness, acknowledged his apology, validated his feelings and now feel wretched. It's goodbye again from BOTH of us and around and around we go. My own deepest, sad feelings are right on the surface and no one can help me. I’m in such pain.

Please don’t tell me I brought it on myself. I know.

[Larmoyant]

I sometimes wonder if I've gone completely nuts and I'm sure after reading this most would agree. I'm still engaging in all of this.

Ok, it’s not goodbye. I’ve received another email which appears to be carefully worded and only managed to insult me once in reference to my “broader alliances”, other men he means. He also signed off as “Your friend” which is new.

“I am pleased you are stronger and more positive. 

 When I was in the UK with my Dad we weren't together and that made it harder.

I have had a bad time in many ways. 

I have broken my right wrist and had four operations in 18 months. 

I think we failed to be a couple. Just generally we did not succeed in that.  I felt frustrated during our relationship about that.  That is not to say it was your fault but we didn't become a partnership.  Two contributing factors were my daughters and your broader alliances. 

I am sorry I was not there for you.

I hope you find what you are looking for.

As I have said many times, I believe undertaking a PhD would be good for you in many ways.

Your friend"

He clearly senses I’m almost completely out the door and I think he’s afraid that I will be gone for good. Not that he wants me as a partner, but because I am an ‘attachment’ that he doesn’t want to let go of. I think this is why he has kept in contact with me for over a year now. 18 months to be exact. Does anyone else think this is the reason?

It seems that I have a decision to make once again. I feel sad for him if he doesn’t want to lose me as an ‘attachment’ and wonder if it really matters if he touches down now and again and then disappears. However, this contact hurts me and I don’t want to keep being hurt. I have feelings still. I'm not sure which road to take?

[happendtome]

You are not nuts, you are just too attached. I was there too, but only NC/LC helped me to become detached.
If my ex started to beg symphaty (saying how shes attacked by everyone etc) i ignored her, if she talked about her life (what shes going to do) i only replied that "its nice" or something. If she asked about my life then i said "im fine, thank you for asking" and nothing else. It wasnt easy for me, it was really hard, but she saw finally that my door is closed for her and she stopped contacting me.

I didnt like this, i felt that i am ignored, but i sticked with my plan and now im moving away from her really fast. I still think about her, but i dont feel particularly anything. She even got married, but no... .it doesnt feel so bad like i thought it would. I feel nothing and last week i found out one day that i didnt remember anymore how many days this NC has been going on. I was reading days, but i lost my track now. And i have no plans to "correct" my counter.

I know if she would contact me now i would be struggling again a bit, but not as much as i did before and i also know that i wont change my course anymore.

[Larmoyant]

Hi happendtome, yes, I’m still too attached and feel such sorrow for him. I think I’ve given up on the idea of going completely no contact. It’s not working. I’m going to try low contact and become boring to him. He can only contact me via email now. I hope this isn't a mistake.

I temporarily fell back into the fog. I spoke to my old therapist this morning as I was feeling way too depressed. I’ve been caught up in his BPD cycle of devaluing/idealization again and ptsd symptoms have been triggered. I felt better after talking with her. She said it was good that I didn’t JADE but the effort was exhausting for me. It wiped me out and I felt very depressed, but I'm not back to square one. He’s emailed me again with an excuse about an old ipad, but I can handle it. One thing that has come out of all this is that I do not want him back.

[Zemmma]

You are doing so well! To say that you don't want him back! To want to move on from this is the biggest step in my opinion. You can do this!

I am in a serious NC with my BPDex and I don't think pride will allow either of us to break it for a very long time. And that is good because his texts = pain now.

I went down to the email-only route. Then he went 2 months quiet and then popped up with reminiscing about our emotional and sexual bond and thanking me for the r/s and thanking me for "opening his heart." Very evocative. I didn't even read the entire email for days. His contact (just seeing his name pop up) hit me like a brick in the face. I had to sit down. I had a painful body reaction. My breathing changed... just from receiving a text! I called a friend. I was excited and had hope and felt dread all at once.

This happened out of the blue- when I was getting better. He had this kind of power. On a holiday long weekend. He reminded me it was the 5 year anniversary of the first kiss. I had actually forgotten. He ruined a weekend with my kids. He shifted my focus to him and to my sadness and lonliness and loss. I allowed him to do this. I had no control over it.

Over the next couple of weeks it changed and warped as it played on my mind. Why was he contacting me? Maybe he loves me? Surely he wouldn't write these things if he didn't want me.

Then I opened up the dialogue and within a few days we were sleeping together and acting like a couple in what became the most painful recycle yet. Now we are full on NC again. This time I told him not to contact me again for ANY REASON.

I guess I am suggesting that while he is still bombarding you with texts it is easy to feel strong and say you don't want him back. It is when he goes silent again that you will have to be very careful. It heightened my urge to contact. Everything shifts emotionally in me after he contacts or stops contacting. My resolve weakens. Then I have new questions. I want to talk to him to JADE and figure out what he is thinking. I look for resolution. Or better closure that never comes.

Go easy and maybe journal your feelings: those feelings you have right now about not wanting him back. Spell them out in detail. Maybe write them in your phone or on your laptop so you have them with you always. Be your own big sister reminding you how much pain you have felt through this. Read them over and over. Dream of a relationship that has all of the love that you desire with none of the conflict and pain. Or dream of a place of peace where you are single but hopeful and surround yourself with the love of your family and friends and the love of self. Dream of possibilities for a future of happiness and something different and more wonderful than the what you have had or have right now. Sometimes I imagine the future I want and then speak it out loud, as if it already happened' as though I am an old woman reflecting on the path, the pain I felt, the brave choices I made, what I learned and how the things I did lead to the outcome I desire; the life I want to lead.

you will be lost, and unlost,
over and over again. relax love.
you were meant to be this
glorious. epic. story.
-Nayyirrah Waheed

He is still looking to you to fill some need. Be mindful of your own. 

[heartandwhole]

Hi Larmoyant,

I'm sorry that you are feeling depressed and sorrowful again. These cycles can be exhausting.  

I can understand feeling like you are at square one again, but maybe evolution is more of a spiral than a circle? We keep coming back to the same point/area, but from a different perspective each time. I heard that once and it really resonated with me, as I seem to come back to very similar challenges in my relationships, but with more knowledge, wisdom, and experience to lean on each time.

How are you feeling today?

I think knowing that you don't want him back is huge.

We're here for you.  

heartandwhole

[Roselily]

Oh Larm,
I'm so sorry... .It's a hard place to be... I know it's been said b4, but every contact made, will pull us nons right back into the crazy abyss... Is there anyway possible to get your number changed? I know it is a hassle, but being too hard not to answer, this seems like something to possibly consider... We cannot heal while in contact. This man is very ill... .and can't let go...

You will have to be the strong one... here... How do you feel about that?

XX

[Larmoyant]

Zemmma, I really can’t thank you enough for your post. It helped me so much. It’s a huge relief when I read that others experience similar. I read it a few times last night and along with heartandwhole's reminder that I'm definitely not back to square one I slept well. I’m very hard on myself about talking to him still, thinking that there’s something terribly wrong with me.

However, I’m sort of back on track now as he’s changed again and has now accused me of purposely withholding a serial number on an ipad that he is certain he gave me. I don’t have it. This sort of thing shakes me out of my reverie.

Having said that this toxic connection feels incredibly strong at times. Yesterday morning I plunged into feelings of despair navigating the old head and heart battle, but for the most part logic is winning.  I don’t want him back. Oh, the nightmare of it all. I just cannot see myself enduring it again and anyway I’m a different, dare I say it, stronger person now.  Heartandwhole, what you write is so true. I’m not in the same place anymore and I have a wealth of knowledge and experience to fall back on now. I've changed. I wouldn’t just sit there and take the abuse or try to fight it anymore. One insult or rage attack and I’d be off, leave him to it.

However, and here’s the problem. I sometimes feel, given I know more, that I could somehow or other cope with it now. E.g. I now know that it would be important to tell him that I’d be back when he’s calmed down. This latter kind of thinking has become a problem and I find myself wandering down this path at times. I imagine using the tools on here to navigate the relationship with him. I’ve already practised them during the latest contact and it worked a little, but it’s exhausting.

It’s the dreaded feelings of hope that surface fooling me into believing that we could maybe work things out. I have to work really hard to keep these feelings under control. I’ve done the work and know where they are coming from (family of origin issues), but still they can be very strong. 

I’m not even sure he wants me back anyway. In fact, given the latest accusation about the ipad I’m sure he doesn’t. He just needs to know that I’m around. I'm just conditioned to the on/off recycling so I assume he wants to recycle, and 'hopeless hope' is triggered. This is what causes the damage probably.

I seem, like many of us here, to be particularly susceptible to his ‘abandoned child’ mode. I find it so incredibly sad and difficult to handle. I’ve been wondering if I’m projecting some of my own stuff onto him though. Trying to come to his rescue hoping he comes to mine.

Whatever it is, when he’s in that space I find it very difficult turning my back on him. I feel incredibly sad for him. In that moment (he switches rapidly) he’s clearly in pain.You wouldn’t wish BPD on your worst enemy. The problem is I’m inclined to feel sorry for him more than I feel compassion or anger for my own pain.

Wading through all this is exhausting. I’m weary, but back on track again.  Aldactone, I’ve certainly taken a short ride on the crazy train again. Painted white, black, white, and black again in a couple of days. He doesn’t like me again now. I do believe he is seriously unwell and maybe I do need to step up and do the right thing for both of us. It’s my own deep wounds that get in the way, but I’m getting there. More so than ever. Thank you for your support.

Still not quite sure what path to take. Complete NC or LC, email only. Contact, silence, contact, silence. It’s become a pattern. Maybe I can just accept it until it no longer happens. Be a ‘gray rock’ if that’s the correct term, but then as  Zemmma says it feels like “closure that never comes” or maybe I can somehow turn this into my closure? I’m tired. Sometimes I don’t even know what I’m talking about anymore. Thank you for listening and for all your support.

[earlyL]

Hi Larmoyant,

My situation is different to yours but I think I feel really similar to you. Your line about don't even know what you are talking about sometimes - it made me smile, I often feel that way, I don't think my friends really understand it, but it is so true. I have LC to an extent as my exBPD and I run a business together although I am at the stage of getting out of it, and to be honest it terrifies me. I am so scared about stopping the contact altogether as I think I will go into some kind of withdrawal but at the same time I find her change in tone within emails on a day to day basis just agony. When she is being honest and with emotion I find it easier but a lot of the time she is obviously angry and pushing me away, and it just feels cruel. I have been patient and forgiving, I have never been angry and added to the drama.

There are different reasons behind the emails than yours but it sounds quite similar in terms of then feelings it is conjuring up for us both and I really wanted to just say I relate to it. I can't help thinking the same, if I cut all contact I would heal better but something is stopping me. The only positive I take from this elongated way is that in the long run we will feel that we did everything we could and have no regrets about these steps. I feel this is the long pain for the long gain, that we are dealing with it all now and so in time although the memories will always be there I hope that the triggers will lessen. Like you say, a pattern until it eventually dies out in its own natural way rather than a decision to be no contact which might cause more pain and overthinking. I keep thinking surely at some point I will become bored of all this back and forth and that in itself will be my closure.

 My ex BPD cheated and lied to me, she told me one day after our break up that 'she did her best' the sad truth is, she really did in terms of her beliefs, at the time I almost laughed, god knows what she thought it was doing to me, but of course she wasn't thinking that, for her she really did do her best. Now you and I are doing ours. Keep strong, I think you are coping really well, and i know it isn't easy.

much love from your BPD family here.

[Roselily]

Still not quite sure what path to take. Complete NC or LC, email only. Contact, silence, contact, silence. It’s become a pattern. Maybe I can just accept it until it no longer happens. Be a ‘gray rock’ if that’s the correct term, but then as  Zemmma says it feels like “closure that never comes” or maybe I can somehow turn this into my closure? I’m tired. Sometimes I don’t even know what I’m talking about anymore. Thank you for listening and for all your support.
End
[/quote

I sure understand Larm that tired feeling... like slipping back into the fog... .It's hard to go NC when we care. This man will survive... .BPD or not, he is a grown man. He will need to decide to get help on his own. If you did change your number it would be relief to know he can't keep
Triggering you, because that sets off the spiraling down and begins the whole thing once more. Maybe just maybe, that is exactly what he needs to hit bottom. My doctor told me once ... going no contact helps us the heal on many levels. It also forces them to look at their behaviors, and want to change just like an alcoholic ... there are usually only small windows of time, that this could happen.
LC is still connection... which they start to think " she will always be there for me" and they loose respect... .the abuse only gets worst... ,Sweetie I don't think you want to keep doing this, it affects our quality of life. NC  says you can overstep my boundaries, and hurt me anymore... .please consider going NC a final time. To you can start living life again and be happy... .I'm cheerleading for ya!. xx

[chillamom]

Hi, Larmoyant,

Just sending   and support because I understand this all very well, and have been, as you know, in all manners of in a relationship, broken up, LC, and recycled during about the same time you have been on the boards.  We've seen a lot!

I remember something heartandwhole told me some time ago in response to my then LC/NC dilemma.  I was feeling very guilty about the possibility of NC (even though I knew and still know it was best for ME) because his feelings always took precedence over my own.  She likened the process of LC and the irritation/pain it would cause to the irritation that causes an oyster to form a pearl, and suggested that perhaps if I was going to go LC it would be my "practice".  I loved this thought but was too weak to implement it, as LC for ME always led to a recycle, sometimes after many many months.

I'm glad he once again has shown signs of unreasonable accusatory behavior with the whole iPad thing - oh yes, it DOES make it easier when they act in the expected ways.   Go with that.  Go with the email contact if that's LC enough for you - it has been suggested to me before that you could set up a folder for those random emails to go to and read them when and if you had the strength, otherwise you could just delete the damn things.

One thing that stood out is how much stronger you know you are and that you KNOW you don't want him back.  That's wonderful and something to hold tight to….and try not to overly torture yourself about the things you would have done and said if you had the tools you now know about….honestly, the thought of having to utilize tools and techniques in even the most general of conversations seems to me to be utterly exhausting.  From what I understand, some people have partners to whom they can actually talk without weighing their words!  It honestly seems like a superhuman effort to me to be able to make a relationship with a pwBPD work on any level, and maybe it's just laziness or weakness but I can't and wont do that. 

I hope your mind can turn to calmer and better things today!

[Larmoyant]

Thanks so much for responding to me and I’m sorry for not getting back sooner. I’m fighting depression and sometimes it gets the better of me although I feel better now. It’s the intensity of it all that gets me down. It’s draining, the outpouring of emotion, his apologies, declarations of love, rapidly followed by cruel devaluation. I handle it better these days, but still.
  
He’s disappeared again now, left things hanging in the air just when I thought we’d achieved something. It makes me feel sad. I handled the character assassination well, I didn’t JADE, and was ‘mostly’ pleased with how I responded, assertive, but kind. I tried validating his feelings, and the conversation improved. He signed off ‘friend’ and I signed off ‘friend’. Caring for one another, closure and, (in my mind) no problem if he wanted to touch down now and again. Only it didn’t end that way.

He came back, about the iPad, totally different tone, combative, “just give me the serial number, cheers” ignoring my genuine response that I didn’t have it. It seemed ‘made up’, an excuse to argue, but who really knows? I’m done with it, no arguing from me. Too exhausting.

Seems bleak, but you know that saying “one step forwards, two steps back?”  Well, I, actually feel as if I’ve taken one step back, but two steps forward. Somehow or other things have clicked into place and I’m facing the reality of all of this. I’ve had flashbacks of various times, his out of control jealousy, rages, loving moments, etc, and I can clearly see the rapid splitting, the black/white thinking, the love/hate, push/pull, in all of it. I couldn’t control it then and I can’t now. His view of me changes with the wind and quite frankly I’m too exhausted to worry about it.

I can’t rescue him either and all that compassion and empathy I have for him inevitably gets thrown back in my face. It’s not received in the manner it is expressed or, if it is, not for very long. Compassion and empathy; it’s a ‘hook’. Stop banging your head on a cement wall, refocus and turn that compassion/empathy towards yourself and others who will yield the receiving of and respect of it. I will always feel sadness for his suffering, but I need to develop this emotional boundary.

In many ways, I’m glad for this latest encounter because somehow or other it all seems to have come together.  As I said I can’t rescue him and expecting or hoping that he can rescue me by taking away this break-up pain is magical thinking. It’s false hope and the key to all of this is letting go of this hope, yet it can’t be forced. It will happen when it does. I suspect that when it’s at nothing I’ll be ok again. I’m going to stop battling with the decision NC or LC. Just let things be. If he contacts then he does and I will deal with it. I’m going to catch up on my sleep this weekend and on Monday I’m going to tackle this depression head on. I want my life back.
 

.The only positive I take from this elongated way is that in the long run we will feel that we did everything we could and have no regrets about these steps

.

Hi earlyL, this is a good way to look at it. I sometimes wonder if I made the right decision to walk away, should I have tried more, etc, yet now I know I did try enough. If I’d had the courage to go full no contact I might have saved myself a lot of extra pain, but I may always have wondered. My ex also cheated/lied, but said he’d tried his best and I too actually think he might have. It is a sad truth. earlyL, when you finally make that break reach out and I’ll help you through it ok  .

Hi Aldactone, his contact does set off the spiralling down because he seems to have a strong need to lash out at me, and my depression is bad enough, yet I can’t quite seem to go full nc. I sometimes wonder if I’m a masochist. It's his 'abandoned child' mode that gets me, but you’re right he will survive, in fact, he’s doing ok at least career wise. Mines in ruins! Another reason to start refocusing my attention. I will keep trying because I want to be happy again. Thank you for cheering me on Aldactone  

Hi Chill, we have seen a lot! These toxic bonds are seemingly invincible at times. I love what heartandwhole said to you, and, shout out to you, heartandwhole, you are amazing. 100% I agree that NC is the best action to take yet I can’t do it, and the battle trying to do it is depressing and exhausting. I’ll go with LC for now. It’s unlikely to lead to a recycle in my case because he can’t stop himself from insulting me. It does make it easier and 90% of the time I do not want him back. Yet, I’m still battling the ‘hopeless hope’ which pops up now and again. Just a tiny, tiny bit left. I think that’s where the idea of the tools come in, but you’re right it’s exhausting. I tried it out and to some extent it seemed to work, at least we managed to have a fairly good conversation except as I mentioned above it didn’t last. He thinks I’m a terrible person again. I’m stronger now though and know I’m not all those things. I no longer mind what he thinks and he’s as likely to turn me white again eventually anyway. I shall look forward to relationships where I am not walking on tiptoes terrified of saying the wrong thing. Thanks for the support Chill. Hope you’re going ok  
  

[heartandwhole]

Hi Larmoyant,

I'm so glad to hear that you want your life back. I know the feeling, and this has been such a battle for you (me, too).   I hear growth and wisdom in your posts. You ARE moving forward. Don't be fooled by these seeming backslides. Once something is known, grokked, the bell rung, it can't be undone. You know what I mean?

One thing that I think is very important for all of us to remember is that NC is not healing. It's not the goal. It's not detachment. It's a tool/method to give us space to recover from the blow of loss. It gives us time and space to grieve. It helps us get our lives back. It can be for a short or long time.

If Limited Contact works better for you, then do use that tool to create the environment that will help you move forward and grow. And nothing is set in stone! You can choose one, then decide later that another approach will work better for you. When we are depressed, it can be very hard to make good decisions for ourselves. I recommend taking it one day at a time (or one hour at a time if needed). If your ex contacts you, you can decide right then if and when you want to reply. You might be surprised one day that you don't want to. Or that you want to and his reactions don't hurt anymore. It is really possible, Larmoyant. That day is coming for you.  

Chillamom, I wish I could take credit for the wonderful metaphor about the grain of sand/pearl in the oyster.  I think it may have been another member who wrote that.  But I do remember saying that contact can be a "practice."  I think of it as an opportunity to check in with myself and my feelings—then dealing with them right there in the moment.

heartandwhole