How do I encouarge my partner to get our sex life back on track

[Chirimoya]

He has now been withholding sex from me for a WHOLE YEAR.

I strongly suspect that my male partner of 8 years has BPD/covert NPD. I realised this about 2 years ago after several years of confusion. He is a wonderful person in many ways; creative and spontaneous with a unique outlook on life. I love him dearly. However, he has some very dysfunctional behavioural patterns.

About a year ago, I set a firm boundary with him about verbal abuse. I told him that I thought his behaviour was abusive and informed our families what had been going on. Previous to that, he got into rages with me and shouted at me and threatened to leave me about once a week... .I used to be very reactive and to shout back etc. I've stopped doing this, stopped JADEing and leave the house if necessary at these times. His initial reaction in the first 6 months after setting the boundary was to retreat to the spare room , hit the bottle and sulk. However, things have been much better over the last 6 months. He has gotten into counselling, and has made many positive changes in his life. His rages have become much less frequent and are quite short-lived, so I count that as a huge improvement. I've done a lot of reading about PDs, abusive relationships, gaslighting etc which has helped me understand the dynamic a lot better. I've also been on a DBT-FST course and have been using a lot of validation in my communication with him which has been v. helpful.

However! He has now been withholding sex from me for a WHOLE YEAR   This is something that he has done throughout our relationship from time to time but this is by far the longest stretch of such behaviour. It very clearly started when I set the boundary around verbal abuse. Initially I think he was punishing me and using this as a kind of "silent rage". However, I don't really know why he's still persisting with it when we seem to be getting on better. He seems to have a lot of intimacy issues and a lower libido than me so I don't know if the whole relationship is sort of less challenging for him if we're not sexual... .Needless to say this is a huge drag for me. On top of the obvious problems, I'm a 36-year old woman with fertility issues who would really like to be trying for a baby right now instead of putting up with all this!

I've been largely ignoring this behaviour and on the occasions that I have spoken to him about it, I've mostly kept my cool so as not to provide narc supply. I've also been getting on with my own life and getting out and meeting new people. I've been taking care of my appearance etc. I'm not quite sure what more to do! We are going on holiday next week and are planning to sleep in the same room for the first time in a long while so fingers crossed that will be a chance to build bridges.

Has anyone been through a similar experience and managed to get your sex life back on track again? If so, how? I'm wondering about using the DBT tactic of "extending" or mental aikido: "If your feelings for me are now platonic, then fair enough, but in that case we need to break up and just be good friends". The idea being that he then backpedals! I guess at some point I may have to set a boundary around being willing to continue in the relationship under these circumstances but I'm not ready to do that yet.

It's all pretty trying as our relationship is getting better in so many ways and this is the one big problem. I'm worried that as the relationship gets emotionally healthier, he will become less and less interested in sex as he can't handle the intimacy... . He has huge control issues around sex. I'm struggling a lot right now with feelings of being attracted to another man (who is clearly very interested in me) and I'm not sure how much longer I can keep this up! I'm a Buddhist and am doing my best to be compassionate to my man and myself but it is not easy! Thanks

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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[halcyon]

Has anyone been through a similar experience and managed to get your sex life back on track again? If so, how?

First of all, let me say a big "welcome" to you, and congratulate you on your first post

I have been through a similar experience, yes.  What did it take to get our sex life back on track?  My partner had to hit "rock bottom", become aware she had BPD, seek treatment (she checked herself into in-patient for 72 hours), and then follow up on that treatment with consistent therapy and DBT training.  It also took some therapy and "training" on my part as well, and it took some couples therapy too.

But that's how it worked for us... .it might work differently for different couples, I imagine   But, in my opinion, no one can "force" a person with BPD to seek treatment or stay in treatment.  I feel they kind of have to reach that conclusion on their own, or it is less likely to "stick".  Again, that's just based on MY experience.

Do either of you have a therapist that you'd both feel comfortable with, in terms of sitting down together for a session?  That might make the dialogue easier, and make him feel safer talking about his own feelings?  It could be a good start.

Or, if not, maybe try writing down your feelings?  Sometimes, when I'm upset about something and don't know how to talk about it with my partner, I write her a letter.  I don't always GIVE her the letter.  Sometimes just the act of writing it helps me figure out how to talk about it, and then I don't need the letter.  Other times, I DO give her the letter, and then we discuss it.  I either write it with a pencil or I use the computer- that way it's easy to edit out the times when I catch myself JADE-ing

I hope you find the answers you're seeking.  Good luck to you! 

[Skip]

He is a wonderful person in many ways; creative and spontaneous with a unique outlook on life. I love him dearly. However, he has some very dysfunctional behavioural patterns.

 

our relationship is getting better in so many ways and this is the one big problem. I'm worried that as the relationship gets emotionally healthier, he will become less and less interested in sex as he can't handle the intimacy... .

It sounds like you are doing a really good job of providing leadership and structure in the home. Kudos to you!

I'm struggling a lot right now with feelings of being attracted to another man (who is clearly very interested in me) and I'm not sure how much longer I can keep this up! I'm a Buddhist and am doing my best to be compassionate to my man and myself but it is not easy!

Having sexless marriage is tough. Have you two talked about it? Something is bothering him. If it is resentment (silent rage as you say), do you know the issue? Hurt feelings? Inadequacy?

You need to softly get to the why and then work out from there. Delicacy is typically important in these issues.

[onelittleladybug]

Hi Chirimoya!



First of all I am impressed by your insights and how much research and work you've already done. Your post inspired me to read more about DBT. I feel by reading your post that we have a lot in common and I am dealing with the same main issue. I am currently in a r/s with an undiagnosed man with BPD. He is same age as you and Im in my 40's.

I told him that I thought his behaviour was abusive and informed our families what had been going on. Previous to that, he got into rages with me and shouted at me and threatened to leave me about once a week... .I used to be very reactive and to shout back etc.

My thoughts are that two things triggered him: Calling out the abusive behavior and telling the family. I constantly have to remind myself that my pwBPD's feelings and reaction to what I say are amplified to the power of ten or more. I forget about this every week or two and he will retreat into silent treatment. Early in the relationship I was keeping my own family and friends informed about what was going on between us. I thought it was the right thing to do as there was verbal abuse and things got scary a couple times. He didnt like it and in hindsight it caused more problems. But I couldnt know that then. Once I found this site and started learning the tools  (links on the right of the board) things started improving. The verbal abuse completely stopped, resurfaced a little bit recently but soon disappeared again. Nothing scary has happened for a long time. But oh so many silent treatments... .Sigh.

He has gotten into counselling, and has made many positive changes in his life. His rages have become much less frequent and are quite short-lived, so I count that as a huge improvement.

Thats awesome! Congrats on that. I think once a person is in counseling and sees progress they are going to stay open about going back or trying new things so even if not in DBT this is already huge IMO. How are you doing yourself? Are you in therapy or is there something you are doing to take care of your own emotional life and health? Living with a pwPD is challenging and its important that we look after ourselves too as it can too easily get left behind.

However! He has now been withholding sex from me for a WHOLE YEAR   This is something that he has done throughout our relationship from time to time but this is by far the longest stretch of such behaviour.

Initially I think he was punishing me and using this as a kind of "silent rage".

He seems to have a lot of intimacy issues and a lower libido than me so I don't know if the whole relationship is sort of less challenging for him if we're not sexual... .

This is an issue in my r/s as well and I agree it is somehow another version of silent treatment. My experience is that silent treatment is less about control (although that can be a factor sometimes) but more about clamming up or feeling unsafe. I cant speak for your husband but I have noticed with my pwBPD that when he wants to have sex there is always some mentioning of us lasting "forever", "never going to leave", most recently "you've really been there for me". I of course feel like I have to jump through hoops or wade through fire to get the affection I want from him. I sometimes feel like there is nothing I can do to make that man come around. I also know that I have done and said things that contribute to his mistrust and fear of abandonment so until Ive completely stopped making things worse (https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict) I think my pwBPD's behavior will go on. Unfortunately. I guess what Im saying is our behavioral pattern is reacting to the other.

Is it possible that there is still something going on between you and your husband that he is reacting to in this way?

On top of the obvious problems, I'm a 36-year old woman with fertility issues who would really like to be trying for a baby right now instead of putting up with all this!

I think I know how you feel. In my case its now the opposite, my pwBPD would love to have a child and I feel like things have to get a lot better between us first. But I felt the time pressure in a previous relationship and its common for women in our 30s and early 40s to be preoccupied with thoughts of it. I think the fact that your husband is in counseling and is improving is a positive sign. I come from a family with all kinds of mental issues and I think Im pretty cool Babies or not is a big question that really no one else can or should try to influence. It is completely between you and your husband.

But before babies you have to get to intimacy. I sometimes joke (mostly to myself never to him) that my pwBPD can smell my thoughts and feelings. Its like he knows things I dont even know myself. Is it possible that your husband is picking up some rushed vibes and that could be contributing to his reluctance?

I'm not quite sure what more to do! We are going on holiday next week and are planning to sleep in the same room for the first time in a long while so fingers crossed that will be a chance to build bridges.

I think thats exactly the best thing you can do, to build emotional bridges. Also things tend to happen when we let go, if you can hope for it but not think too much about it its more likely to happen.

I'm wondering about using the DBT tactic of "extending" or mental aikido: "If your feelings for me are now platonic, then fair enough, but in that case we need to break up and just be good friends".

I would advice against it for the very reason that you said youre not really ready for it.

Then - honestly I tried that and it just backfired. I didnt mean it in a manipulative way, I was being sincere. The result was that we half ass our r/s, it got us in a strange limbo where we were sometimes romantic sometimes just friends but the feelings never changed. It caused frustration and held us back.

It's all pretty trying as our relationship is getting better in so many ways and this is the one big problem.

I think its a symptom of something rather than the cause of a problem. I would try to dig into what is causing him to hold back and then work on that.

I'm worried that as the relationship gets emotionally healthier, he will become less and less interested in sex as he can't handle the intimacy... .

Well there is no way of predicting the future but I personally doubt achieving mental stability would result in losing interest if there was before.

How were things in the past? Were you happy with your sex life before the big shift in the r/s?

I'm struggling a lot right now with feelings of being attracted to another man (who is clearly very interested in me) and I'm not sure how much longer I can keep this up!

I understand feeling confused. Its probably best to remove the temptation for the time being if you possibly can. Giving into that in any way would make everything so much worse and distract you and set you back from your relationship goals.

Please keep us updated. If you have spent some time reading on the board you will see you are not alone, there are other people than you (and me) having this problem. Thats whats so great about this site, we can learn from others. Im really glad you shared this with us, its nice to know we are not alone.

[isilme]

I would also ask if maybe there are some physical issues he may not be expressing about intimacy, causing fears about it.  H's physical health has declined in the last year, and while we are working to get it back on track, he is suffering from a lot of pain in his lower extremities, and even ED.  So, there may some issues he is not talking o you about because of embarrassment - maybe. 

This is a big source of frustration for both of us.  Some days we are able to still be intimate even if it has to be creative, but I am on edge a lot of the time, and yes, I have to admit, my body feels frustrated to have moved back to "second or third base" at best these days, with his health needing quite an improvement before we can see if a home run will ever be possible again.  We had yet another fight about it this weekend, because I cannot adequately fake my enthusiasm for things when I am feeling a lack, and honestly, he is not being conscientious of how his beard hurts me, and I kinda feel like a blow up doll at times, there to muddle through helping him out while I may manage to climax, the asynchronous nature of it all (he insists me first, then him) now makes me feel frustrated to be super sensitive all over after but still expected to keep working to manipulate him till he has reached his climax.  I WANT to be close.  He says he does.  But he also feels so crappy most of the time I don't initiate at all - I can't tell when it would even be possible for the limited activities we DO engage in.     

His body hurts so many places thanks to his neuropathy I don't know where I can touch him without causing pain, there is no visible indication usually that he is even in the mood - I have to go by his words, and thanks to BPD he hates actually stating his thoughts and feelings - I am supposed to read his mind.  Add to this that his BPD makes him pick the WORST times, like late late late at night when my body is literally shutting down from exhaustion and I can't want anything but sleep.  And I think I have some resentment that at times it looks more like he wants to play some pity game about his health rather than take some damn responsibility and work on it.  I'm like, your MD told you things would work again once you get your ass in gear and take control of your sugar levels.  So do it already, dammit.  (Sorry, I am kinda upset today about all of this). 

I want to scream:  Stop complaining about how you think I will leave you, cheat on you, how I suck at sex because I dare to be frustrated that things are NOT easy to engage in when your body is not cooperating  - this is not my fault, I can't fix it for you, either take the blue pills the MD gave you or get healthy, or shut up about it - this is on YOU to work on.  I will be celibate with you until you get your butt squared away, but I am tired of this half measure and then you just complaining and feeling sorry for yourself.

Sorry - I just needed to get all that out. 

[Chirimoya]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your replies! It's taken me a while to get back to you.

Well, there's no news here! Everything is as it was, unfortunately. Our holiday was disappointing as we did not end up sleeping in the same room as promised... .  I think you may be right, Skip and Onelittleladybug, that I need to work out what is bothering him. However, it's difficult to get to the heart of things because as soon as we talk about emotive matters, he starts projecting and going into rigid thinking. He has a lot of cognitive distortions (like, he says that all the relationship problems are entirely my fault and also falsely claims that I have Asperger's syndrome). So I'm not sure he's really aware himself what the problem is exactly. Also, I'm worried that the "problem" may just be that I'm not letting him control/abuse me any more and possibly that is the function he unconsciously wants me to fulfil, ie. to be an outlet for all his frustrations.

My experience is that silent treatment is less about control (although that can be a factor sometimes) but more about clamming up or feeling unsafe. I cant speak for your husband but I have noticed with my pwBPD that when he wants to have sex there is always some mentioning of us lasting "forever", "never going to leave", most recently "you've really been there for me". I of course feel like I have to jump through hoops or wade through fire to get the affection I want from him.

That's a really interesting observation, Onelittleladybug. I haven't noticed this sort of pattern with my H but it could well be a safety thing. I asked him about this the other day and he said it wasn't this, but like I say, he's not very self-aware... .I know that jumping through hoops feeling! It sucks!

We did talk about possibly breaking up yesterday. He actually brought it up. I think he was expecting me to beg him not to leave or something, but I said that it could make sense and I'd like him to think about what he really wants.

Thanks for your input, Halcyon. I'm glad things worked out well for you guys after DBT. I think the odds of getting H into DBT are almost nil, unfortunately,as he does not have a diagnosis and is very resistant to the whole idea that he may have a PD (even though he was previously diagnosed with PPD... .) I have been teaching myself all about DBT however and have just read the whole of Marsha Linehan's "Cognitive Behavioural Treatment of BPD" so am attempting a kind of home-brewed DBT on H, . It's given me some interesting insights. Like, I wonder if the disengagement from sex is underlain by a similar psychology to self-harm? Ie. a maladaptive "solution" to problematic feelings. Marsha proposes "chain analysis" to analyse self-harm thoughts, ie. to ask her clients to consider exactly when self-harm thoughts appear on a moment-to-moment basis, and what the exact sequence of thoughts, feelings and behaviours are that lead to a self-harm event. Maybe a similar approach could be used with sexual aversion, like ask H to talk me through exactly what he's experiencing when we come back from a date and he decides to go sleep in the spare room... .

Isilme - sorry to hear about all your troubles with H. ED on top of BPD does not sound like fun! And it must be frustrating if he's not really taking responsibility for his problems. Do you think there's an element of wanting to control you/your emotions i all this? With my H,I feel like he gets a bit of a power trip out of frustrating me sexually unfortunately. When we were sexually active, he did go through a phase of initiating sex with me when I was asleep/half-asleep and I think it was a control thing... .

Thanks guys!

[Radcliff]

Hi Chirimoya,

Welcome back!  While I don't feel like I have much insight to offer you on your particular challenge, I did want to say that it's great to see you on the board again.  Like you, I put a post or two up, and then was away for several months before coming back and becoming a regular.  The second time around what I realized was that by spending a bunch of time reading other people's threads, becoming familiar with the regular contributors, becoming a regular contributor myself, and reading the articles and workshops on these pages this community started to become a great source of strength for me and I have found help and support that I had never imagined.  We are all dealing with tough, long-term challenges that have a huge impact on our quality of life.  It can be discouraging beyond words sometimes, and progress can be slow, but we are stronger together.  It's nice to "see" you again!  Let me invite you to read through and comment on some of our fellow members' threads, and maybe post another thread or two of your own

[AskingWhy]

Chirimoya, I am glad you came here for input.

Please keep in mind this is not about you as much as your partner.  He is the one with issues and withholding sex/attention or the silent treatment, and those are all forms of abuse.

People abuse others often to get control.

My uBPD/uNPD husband is the same way.  He seems more BPD than NPD, but we need to understand the diagnostic criteria are very similar in the way they fear a lack of control.