I think about my ex.. BPD or narcissist or sociopath or...

[happendtome]

If i think about my ex then im not really sure. Im not a doctor, so i dont know, but it intriques me. Lets skip that traits talk, because it would make things more complicated. Lets talk about how we feel. I think that we very often LIKE to think that our ex-s were BPD-s and not for example narcissists. It seems to be some sort of excuse for them - raging, but still good heart etc... .

I have payed attention here how people describe their ex-s and i must say that some of them (ex-s), based what i have read, seem to be pure sociopaths or narcissists. Very good liars, abusers... .

Read these:

 https://ladywithatruck.com/30-red-flags-you-might-be-dating-a-narcissist/

https://datingasociopath.com/sociopath-character-traits/sociopaths-appear-very-normal/top-18-signs-dating-sociopath/

What do you think?

[Skip]

Do you believe your ex was ASPD?

Here are the criteria:
Antisocial Personality Disorder Diagnostic Criteria 301.7 (F60.2)

A. A pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others, occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors, as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest.

2. Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure.

3. Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead.

4. Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults.

5. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others.

6. Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations.

7. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.

B. The individual is at least age 18 years.

C. There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.

D. The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or bipolar disorder.

Here is a reliable source:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/antisocial-personality-disorder

[HopinAndPrayin]

It's tough to tell if you aren't a licensed professional and even if you are and you don't focus on that particular area of practice, you don't really understand it.  

There's a lot of overlap in traits in the Cluster B area (sociopathy is not in the DSM as a diagnosis - it's now categorized under Antisocial personality disorder (ASPD)).

Our MC, who has 20 years experience with folks in high conflict relationships (AKA folks with PDs), said it's more understanding the mix of traits / PDs, but there IS overlap and a good amount of comorbidity as well.  My  STBXBPDh was 20% schizotypal (Cluster A), and the rest is Cluster B fun time with 50% BPD, and the remaining 30% were a mix of NPD and ASPD.  

Some of the common areas for overlap are narcissistic concept of self - an inability to give back.  If it's NPD / ASPD it is from a lack of empathy and a sense of entitlement; BPDs exhibit but they exhibit it not because they can't experience empathy but because their own emotions are so overwhelming they don't have access to that part of themselves.  There can also be pathological lying that would fit under ASPD if done to manipulate that looks similar to a BPDs pathological lying from lack of sense of self, dissociation, and fear of abandonment if found lacking or flawed.  There's also the narcissistic injury that comes from perceived criticism then the rage that follows.  That for BPDs is again about fear of abandonment from being flawed and therefore unworthy (in their minds).  For narcissists, the underlying psychology is similar on why criticism is so dangerous, that it would prevent others from loving them, but their rage is typically about humiliation and superiority.

I'll be honest with you, there's a lot of advice to focus on the self and heal, and I believe that advice to be valid and true.  It is also very helpful to understand what was going on in the other person, to educate yourself, to understand, in order to accept that nothing could be done, detach, and let go. It helps put context to the why of hidden abuse many of us experienced over the years.  It allows us to read up and acknowledge these different types of abuse, to know the why, and to help understand what it does and did to us over time.  Knowing the other's psychological make-up allows us to see that most of the abuse was not done to be abusive (excepting ASPD) - it is often just a very sick individual trying to survive.  It then becomes all about our own boundaries and what we are willing to tolerate.  That's a different space to live in than the FOG.

[happendtome]

Problem is that i dont know much about my ex. She is not from my country and her past is mysterious for me. She doesnt have a criminal record, im sure, but anything else i dont know. If i start to recall then i do remember she talked about things what would be criminal. She has also commited some frauds, but i really didnt pay attention to these things before, because
a) she said that everyone is doing it (i didnt agree with that)
and b) there were things i thought she is not serious

Now im not really so sure anymore. i actually believe she could even kill someone if she would know for sure that she could get away with that.

[Mutt]

Hi happendtome,

Lets talk about how we feel.

You still haven't talked about how you feel   You've kept your discussion on your ex.

How do you feel? Do you feel scared, anxious, worried, distressed, attached?

[happendtome]

I dont know anymore how i feel Maybe little anxious, but sometimes it seems theres nothing. Just some empty space.
If she would want to recycle me (lets say she would make that offer) then i would definitely refuse.
Maybe its shame what i feel. i am embarrassed. I know i shouldnt be, but i am. I feel that i have been so stupid and now i have to carry this weight.

[Skip]

Read these:

 https://ladywithatruck.com/30-red-flags-you-might-be-dating-a-narcissist/

https://datingasociopath.com/sociopath-character-traits/sociopaths-appear-very-normal/top-18-signs-dating-sociopath/

What do you think?

I think I would use the clinical definitions that I supplied above. We want to move beyond the "junk" websites that basically bash the ex-lovers with the worst sounding mental illness. First it was bipolar. Then its was BPD. The is was NPD. Now the popular sites are all about sociopaths.

Very few of us encountered a sociopath and if you did, you'd know it. There are enough of them in the world to be the partners of all the people on these trendy websites.

Determining someone else's mental stability based on how we feel is a silly concept. If your ex thought you were NPD, is that a reflection of her or you?  

We want to get this stuff right so we can navigate the world in which 29% of the adult population has a DSM illness... .we can't just run from 29% of the people... .we have to, to some extent, work with these people in some capacity. 72% of us have a DSM illness - like depression, or substance abuse. How we handle / navigate people with NPD traits vs BPD traits vs depression is very different.

So, to ask again, do you think your ex was ASPD? Did she fit the criteria?

[happendtome]

I dont really know

She wasnt from my country, i only met her dad from her family. She is divorced twice. Values her first husband, but hates her second (with whom she has kids). She said that his second husband is sociopath who wants to destory her.

She replaced me in 1-2 weeks. I couldnt see her after that, but she kept writing to me. My replacement is criminal and pathological liar and drunk driver. I warned her, her colleagues warned her. She made official complaint that her colleagues are harassing her.
She married my replacemant, but so far i know that my replacement has been denied US visa already twice. I could assume that she married to get that visa more easily, but to be honest i dont know what she thought.

Some people say she is very nice, others say she is lying. I dont think she lied to me. There may have been white lies, but i dont think that there were any significant lies. She wanted to marry me and have a child with me. That talk came after few weeks i had known her.
There were no physical abuse between us. No bad language or anything like that either. No drinking problems. Her only complaint to me was that i was taking her granted and i had no longer plans with her and i was just using her to have sex. I was trying to explain that it wasnt so, but it was leading to conflict always. I felt that i wasnt listened.

What i know about her, then i cant say she was bad person, but i dont think we were compatible. I left her actually after 9-10 months, because i was starting to lose myself. She was controlling me every way, i got scared to speak to her, all i did was avoiding conflict. For example there was one movie. I was watching this and she said that she doesnt like it and she would go to bedroom to do her things. She looked totally fine with that. I watched that movie only 5-10 minutes more, didnt finish it and joined with her. She started to blame me that i was watching something she didnt like. And it wasnt some porn or anything, just some old movie. I dont watch much tv, but i like old movies.

After i left her, she booked hotel for my birthday and said we should still go there. We went. After that she said that her kids were missing me. Kids are fine. I miss them too.
And then i was back with her until i was replaced.

There is one other thing more. Year before we met she had stroke. She recovered very well. She has (had) some eye vision problem, but otherwise she is ok. But she was under 40 when it happened. Because of stress? That was also one of the factors i decided to go low contact/no contact. I dont want that she would go through something like that because of me. Other factors were that i have to just go on myself and accept that i cant change things. Its now year and i havent heard anything from her. She has also left my country. Few months ago she changed her facebook profile photo to the one i took of her. I dont know what it means or if it does mean anything at all.

She was very important person in my life. Thats all i know.

[happendtome]

i thought about this topic this weekend and i decided to write my ex a short letter. One sentence only really, where i wished her good luck and i hoped that she wouldnt have any bad feelings towards me. Nothing else. I dont think there was anything ironic or sarcastic, it was very neutral/sincere and short letter.

I thought that i would get some kind of answer from her as our last (or all) conversations didnt end with big fights or anything like that. I said also before, our relationship was very civil compared to this what some have experienced here.

But I didnt get anything. It made me sad, not because i was that fool who wrote first. That counting days stage is long time over for me.
But i was sad because it was like some way confirmation that my relationship really didnt have anything inside it. No value.
Like always, i tried to put myself into her position. If i would be married and my ex would send me a message where she would wish me everything good for my future - I seriously think i would thank her in that case.

I wonder if she thought that it was sort of manipulation from my part or she simply doesnt want anything to do with me. It could be both, both cases make me sad.
I dont think i have ever manipulated her. Only thing that i did was telling the truth about my replacement.
And i get treated same way like people suggest how you should treat narcissists and BPD-s. No answer, nothing - dont let that door open or he will trick you back to the misery.

I have mixed feelings. Some ways i feel terribly sad, but other ways i realize that this confirmed there wasnt anything. I was filling her space when she needed that. I feel used and trashed.

Many-many months ago i wrote her dad and one of her friends and i received same behavior. They too ignored me. Like a pact from them. Somehow it looks that i am that bad guy now.

2 years... .and everytime i try to learn what happened i get another blow. I think my healing process has been going on very well, but i do wonder if i should stop "learning". I do get wiser and stronger, but is it worth it? I also notice that my direction is slowly  heading to red pill.

[Skip]

You seem like a really sensible and sensitive guy when you get past the Internet lore... .I'd keep reaching in that direction.  

But I didnt get anything. It made me sad, not because i was that fool who wrote first. That counting days stage is long time over for me. But i was sad because it was like some way confirmation that my relationship really didnt have anything inside it. No value.

I wouldn't read this into it. She was an important person in your life (as you have said) - it was most likely the same for her - you two shared this.

Like always, i tried to put myself into her position. If i would be married and my ex would send me a message where she would wish me everything good for my future - I seriously think i would thank her in that case.

True. And there are just as many that wouldn't.

I wonder if she thought that it was sort of manipulation from my part or she simply doesnt want anything to do with me. It could be both, both cases make me sad... //... Only thing that i did was telling the truth about my replacement.

That could be it.

I have an ex who got married (not BPD). She dumped her church and all her long term friends and asked her husband to do the same... .so that they could start new.

Quirky? Yes. Weird? Very. Hurtful? Absolutely. Our joint friends are really hurt. Does it reflect our relationship? No.

2 years... .and everytime i try to learn what happened i get another blow. I think my healing process has been going on very well, but i do wonder if i should stop "learning". I do get wiser and stronger, but is it worth it? I also notice that my direction is slowly  heading to red pill.

I'm many years ahead of you in my recovery - the learning has really improved my relational life. Maybe it will do the same for you.  

[happendtome]

More i learn, more confusing it gets. At least im already lot more healed than i was before.
If she would have said simple "thank you, i wish you same" then both of us would have got that peace.

Actually, i think that at one point my ex could end up here, in this board too. When i was replaced i told her that she should receive second opinion about my replacement, if she doesnt believe me.
So she took my advice, surprisingly, and they both visited therapist few times. Therapist told to my ex that my replacement really does have some problems, but my ex didnt specify what problems there were.