Repair our relationship or break away?

[Display Name]

Hi,

I am new to the BPD Family and am going through the procedure of introducing myself... .

My partner of 13 years exhibits many traits of BPD and Narcissism. I have read up incessantly and analyzed him inside out and really understand his drives and actions. And I am on to myself and identify as a co-dependent.

We are just going through a forth cycle of triangulation. For some years we were stable and he centered on me and we were very committed to each other, but I left South Africa and returned to The Netherlands to get our kids (his step-kids) into more stable education and back to their roots. In this act of leaving, I realized what he means to me. We are attempting to manage our lives across continents.

He resorted to this external person as a way to stabilize himself, I understand, and he told her clearly that he is committed to me. But now things are shifting because she makes him feel good and I feel he is 'keeping me on hold.'

I don't know whether I should try to repair our relationship (starting with becoming my own person first) or break away... .

So, this is where I am in a nutshell.

Thanks for reading.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[spero]

Hello there Display Name, i'd like to extend a warm welcome from the community. 

I hope that you would find your stay with us pleasant and that this is a safe place to share you struggles and circumstances. We also have some resources available to the right, if you are using a computer or you may access our tools from the top from the navigation menu under tools.

So, perhaps to help us understand a little better, within the 13 years of being together, when did you first notice these symptoms of BPD and Narcissism? Has your partner officially received a diagnosis from a mental healthcare professional? Seeing you mentioning triangulation, would it be correct for me to say that this is the fourth time a 3rd party has been involved?

We are just going through a forth cycle of triangulation. For some years we were stable and he centered on me and we were very committed to each other, but I left South Africa and returned to The Netherlands to get our kids (his step-kids) into more stable education and back to their roots.

He resorted to this external person as a way to stabilize himself, I understand, and he told her clearly that he is committed to me. But now things are shifting because she makes him feel good and I feel he is 'keeping me on hold.'

I'm sorry but i'd also like clarify that your currently relationship with your partner as being legally married? The position of being married and having in a relationship with a man with kids would have different implications, or rather more specifically, your current relationship status in your perspective should be one of mutual exclusiveness? This would help me with context and how to steer future discussions objectively. And somehow your partner feels more "deeply" for this other because she makes him feel good and it seems like you have been placed on the side.

I don't know whether I should try to repair our relationship (starting with becoming my own person first) or break away... .

Perhaps Display Name, would you like to share if you had previously engaged in couples therapy or have you done anything prior to this to repair this current relationship? I suppose, the decision to repair the RS or leave is something you'd have to ponder and reflect upon.

Perhaps somethings you can perhaps ponder about... would be your non-negotiables - "What you would still accept from your partner and what you would no longer tolerate as a person." Seeing that you've posted in the "bettering board", do you still feel like working on this relationship and giving another shot? Would you like to take a small step back to ponder on the above question? I suppose that might one angle which would lead and guide you to your own conclusion of what further course of action you would like to pursue.

We're here to listen and do hope that the future discussion of your situation would give you deeper clarity. That being said, how are you feeling right now at this moment Display Name? Apart from your situation, perhaps we'd like to know how you're coping right now emotionally.

Hope to hear from you,
Spero

[Display Name]

Hi Spero,

I am touched that you took the trouble to respond to me in such depth.

Let me start with your last question on how I'm coping, since at this moment it is the most acute issue for me.
I feel extremely depressed, paralyzed and I force myself to go through 'self-improvement' motions: YouTube mediation on self-esteem etc, YouTube Pilates, making social appointments and trying to take concrete action to get my life kick-started again in here in The Netherlands (I got my kids back on the rails educationally this school year, now it's my turn to do so professionally).

I spend a lot of time regretting that I did not use the 2 weeks in SA recently to bond with my husband (we're married) and to rejoice with him about all his accomplishments in the house, but to instead withdraw and demonstrate my displeasure that I had once again not been included in his plans. That there was once again a close (female) friend on the stage, also hit me hard, made me withdraw and 'preach' about boundaries.

With regard to the triangulation: it is in fact the fifth cycle, with which I mean that my husband has close friends with whom he engages in such a way that I feel superfluous. I realize now why I missed the one cycle, and that is because this concerned a young male (my husband is not gay). I believe that my husband does not initiate these relationships from sexual motives, however, in 2 cases boundaries were crossed.

I first started realizing that I was seeing traits of NPD and BPD from January 2017 when I was preparing to leave to The Netherlands. I was planning to really leave, but I then starting seeing what we did have and how he did care for me, rather than what we didn't have. I was devastated about how I had undone everything. At the same time, I realized that I had also co-created our situation by care-taking, enabling and not pushing back enough with regards to my and our children's needs.

Having said this, it takes a lot of self-awareness and confidence to be able to do this. And most importantly, skills like the LEAP method described elsewhere on this site are indispensable.

My dilemma is I understand him and care for him and wish we could recapture the very good times we had and find ways to build a better life. But to do this, I must become emotionally autonomous and that is a tall order WHILE I am hopelessly ruminating on the perceived threats to our relationship (the new friend and the fact that my husband is becoming more distant with me), knowing full well that these threats are part of the dynamic of him trying to stay calm and in control of his life.

I posted in the bettering board because the only other option was a 'break up' board. No in-between board available... .

I have been in personal therapy and for a while my husband considered consulting my therapist independently of me, but now that this new person is reinforcing him emotionally, he has told me in no uncertain terms that there is nothing wrong with him.

My non-negotiable is an intimate relationship with somebody outside of our marriage. For a long time he was stable with me and expressed that he did not his solution in other people and was very happy with me.

The crux of my dilemma is whether I can build enough emotional strength to get us through this.

[juju2]

Hi D

I am in the same place as you, we lived together 10 yrs, I didn't know about how severe BPD is, all during our relationship.

We separated in March 2017, I thought to get ourselves each more healthy.

He started seeing someone in October.

My story is here on this board... .

It is a difficult, trying, humility, humble, sad,  filled place to be... .i had to get clear, i am severely co dependent.  That alone makes my life hard.

So I am working on myself. 

You are married.

You have a level of commitment I did not have.
We were common law married on our state... .

Anyway, share here, read here.

Sometimes I have to keep trying different things.

I know that me asking for space in March last year was a huge break in trust w my b/f.  I know that NOW. 

I painfully unaware of his abandonment issue... .
Unaware of the symptoms, issues of BPD.

He sees this person on the weekends, they don't live together... .

This community has gotten me thru dark days... .

It will be ok.  (I need to hear this too)

We are all here for you

juju

[Display Name]

Hi Juju,

Thank you so much for your welcome.

Yes, you and I shall be ok

Warm regards,

D

[Display Name]

I've changed my subject line because the moderator is hot on my heels about my previous subject line (Repair our relationship or break away?). But on a serious note, I am actually very miserable and after my first knee jerk reaction to my partner, I know realize that I absolutely want to sustain my relationship, because we do care for each other.

[spero]

Hello there Display Name 

Its good to hear from you.

I feel extremely depressed, paralyzed and I force myself to go through 'self-improvement' motions: YouTube mediation on self-esteem etc, YouTube Pilates, making social appointments and trying to take concrete action to get my life kick-started again in here in The Netherlands (I got my kids back on the rails educationally this school year, now it's my turn to do so professionally).

I'm sorry that this whole situation has been making you feeling sad and helpless. To top that up, you've now got to find work again. Its great that that your kids are back in school. How aware are your kids about you and your husband's situation? You seem to be keeping steady with activities and keeping yourself steady and i encourage you to continue doing so.

I spend a lot of time regretting that I did not use the 2 weeks in SA recently to bond with my husband (we're married) and to rejoice with him about all his accomplishments in the house, but to instead withdraw and demonstrate my displeasure that I had once again not been included in his plans.

I'm sorry that this must have been weighing on your heart lately about your actions. On hindsight, it is good that you've been reflecting on your actions and having a desire to want to celebrate good things in life. You've mentioned that you've not been included in his plans.

From how you've phrased it, has he on repeated occasions not consulted you on things which you should have been included in, given that you are his spouse, and therefore to a certain degree have to be involved in plans as such. That being said, i suppose you've also attempted to communicate the need clearly that you'd like to be involved when he makes plans? So, therefore now you're feeling upset he hasn't done so?

That there was once again a close (female) friend on the stage, also hit me hard, made me withdraw and 'preach' about boundaries.

I'm sorry that you've had to tell your friend that she'd cross a line and you didn't feel that was acceptable. It does seem that you have a sense of what is acceptable and what isn't. Would you feel that you give the same treatment toward your spouse or you're more strict with friends?

With regard to the triangulation: it is in fact the fifth cycle, with which I mean that my husband has close friends with whom he engages in such a way that I feel superfluous. I realize now why I missed the one cycle, and that is because this concerned a young male (my husband is not gay). I believe that my husband does not initiate these relationships from sexual motives, however, in 2 cases boundaries were crossed.

I'll probably just clarify this once here. That you've perhaps brought this up clearly and had attempted to communicate how his actions have been making you feel? From what you've described so far, it seems like your spouse is unable to get a satisfactory level of supply from you, and has to then go elsewhere for attention to soothe his needs and validation.

I realized that I had also co-created our situation by care-taking, enabling and not pushing back enough with regards to my and our children's needs.

Its really great that you're aware of the dynamics in your family situation. I suppose this is currently in process with your therapist?

My dilemma is I understand him and care for him and wish we could recapture the very good times we had and find ways to build a better life. But to do this, I must become emotionally autonomous and that is a tall order WHILE I am hopelessly ruminating on the perceived threats to our relationship (the new friend and the fact that my husband is becoming more distant with me), knowing full well that these threats are part of the dynamic of him trying to stay calm and in control of his life.

I understand your desire to wanting to return to the "good times" and yet you're also aware of the demands that come with it trying to better your relationship with your spouse. That the same time, there is also that difficulty, while as you put in effort in bettering yourself, your spouse seems to be behaving in ways which are contrary to your needs and maintaining a healthy marriage. Maintaining control is a common running theme for many with BPD and NPD. Perhaps could you share a little more about how he has been "controlling" especially in ways which seems unfair or in situations which you don't agree upon?

I have been in personal therapy and for a while my husband considered consulting my therapist independently of me, but now that this new person is reinforcing him emotionally, he has told me in no uncertain terms that there is nothing wrong with him.

I am rather concerned about this phrase when he claims that there isn't an issue and that there is nothing wrong with him - meaning that he bears no responsibility or isn't contributing to the issues you are currently facing or addressing.

The crux of my dilemma is whether I can build enough emotional strength to get us through this.

What has you therapist laid out of you regarding this? I would suppose your current therapist would have a much better understanding of your situation than i have?

Let me know your thoughts

Takecare,
Spero

[Display Name]

Hi Spero,

A heartfelt thank you for your response.

Yes, I force myself to take concrete action every day. For myself and for the social life of my daughter. My son in presently in South Africa doing an internship in his (step)father's business. He is an adolescent of 17 and so my partner and he are clashing. The kids have always been aware of our dynamics and have responded to their father's rages with humor. He always softens and reaches out emotionally to them. The kids see him as their father and he sees them as his kids. Back here in the Netherlands, my depressed state means that I throw together quick meals and just crawl into bed early, which results in my daughter and I living in a very functional way. So, possibly she feels my internal state, even though I try to be upbeat with her.

If I am honest, my husband often disregards my actions (dinner lovingly made, house decoration etc) and will implement his own plans as if mine were not there. There are always flashes of putting me on a pedestal and insisting that it's wonderful if I own a project, but this always dissipates. I think that I kept going back and trying and trying again like a yapping dog (because of the intermittent reinforcement... .? ), until I finally decided to leave after being told for the umpteenth to just go back to Europe if I didn't like things.

But he once also made two very memorable statements:

1. That I have more power than I realize in regard to him
2. That it gave him comfort when I remarked that I didn't think that he would ever leave me

I read a remark by someone else in this forum that struck a chord with me about being: 'Too strong to be Co-Dependent and too Co-Dependent to be strong.'

Like this member, I spent years arguing and fighting and losing myself in the process. Now I just want to connect, understand, love and in the ensuing calm (of which we did have a lot too) create my space too.

I am not in therapy at the moment. I had a lovely therapist in SA and as I grew up in the culture of an international family (with many neuro-atypical streaks... .), the idea of the Dutch therapy scene does not provide me with a sense of comfort. Having said that, I am going to see whether I can join the local Codependents Anonymous group here asap. I learnt about CODA on this forum and I am grateful for that.

In terms of the triangulation, another useful tip on this forum is for me to step out of the triangle and to position myself centrally in a compassionate, giving position. So I am trying to live this thought. Because, in the end, I understand that my husband felt very rejected by me in these 2 weeks (although I know that there were some very good moments) and is running from me and towards this friend in order to feel better about himself. The more I stay in the victim role, the more he will run away from me.  And I have to work hard at being in the compassionate role for the right reasons... .because I care for him. And because I care for myself and should value my integrity and humanity. I can see the dynamics of the 'perpetrator' and the 'savior', but it's time that I escape the trap of needing the approval of the one and resenting the 'power' of the other. I suppose that it's time that I become emotionally independent.

Yes, my husband is in complete denial at the moment. I think this third person is stroking his ego and he feels emotionally stronger in this sense. He is aware of the extreme behavior of his father, brother, sister, uncles and grandfather. His uncle, who is a psychiatrist, has led him to believe that he is merely bipolar and maybe manic depressive. This uncle could very well be on the BPD/NPD spectrum himself (reportedly very difficult to live with and flamboyant flings which quickly end in heartbreak). So there is a strong genetic vein running through this family and my husband absolutely admits that he has elements of atypical behavior in himself. However, as I write this, I am realizing that as his safe haven, I cannot be the person to voice any 'criticism', as I am the very person he needs reassurance from. Another eye opener on this site is the LEAP method and the psychology around 'not perceiving' versus 'denial' of a mental condition. I was implementing a variation on this method (essentially listening emphatically), but I still have a way to go to not let all this extreme behavior affect me personally.

This is my mental struggle at the moment. Am I hearing the man who means it when he tells me that he does not think that we are compatible, that I do not make him feel good and that he would like to have a more loose connection with me going forward (and who then urges me several times to not decide immediately when I say that in that case I am out) OR am I hearing the man who is telling me that he just wants to bond with me. This rejection is killing me, and so there is only one way forward: to work on me and let the future take it's course. This sounds strong, but it is a very fragile strength... .

Thank you for reading.

Display Name

[spero]

Hi there Display Name!

I'm just chiming in since the last time you've posted about a few days ago. Any updates on your situation? I suppose there must still be so much that is going through your mind. Have you been keeping busy? Hope to hear from you, we are here as a community for you. Have you made any decisions prior to this or would you still be seeking to better the relationship with your husband?

Hope to hear from you.

Takecare,
Spero