Introduction: I was warned he was a "bad" man, any advice?

[Need Closure]

I'm a 49 year old female, in love with a 40 year old man that I believe has BPD.  We've known each other for a year and a half and from the beginning I was warned that he was a "bad" man - he'd use and abuse me and hurt me or worse - even his own mother said so!  Thing is, I have NEVER been afraid of him, even though I probably should have been.  Physically he is incredibly strong, prone to using violence to solve problems (with other men, not with women), in and out of jail, addicted to opiates AND suffers from extreme full sensory hallucinations that huge snakes are trying to kill him.  Sounds like quite a catch, eh?  

Oh, and he has a love/hate relationship with his ex, a truly nasty woman who uses him to collect debts and do her dirty work.  When she tires of him, she gets him thrown back in jail on a technicality or if one isn't available, she outright lies to get him incarcerated.  Even he knows that she will have one of her "other" men in their bed before he even gets to the jail.  She openly berates him and have even "joked" about trying to kill him using rat poison - yet he STILL goes back to her!  (I did NOT understand this until I stumbled across BPD info).

Like typical relationships involving someone with BPD, it was either very very good, or very very bad.  No matter what happened (he's accused me of slipping him drugs, "having my way with him" while he was unconscious, hiding letters from his skanky ex, blocking her phone calls, etc.)  He has told outright lies to his fellow inmates that have led several to think I was, to put it plainly, just as slutty as his ex and would bang any guy who showed interest (hardly!  I haven't looked twice at another guy since meeting him!).

I am about as opposite to his ex as possible - highly educated, professional career, never been arrested.  I'm not ugly or socially unacceptable - I have lots of options for romantic partners but no man has made me feel the way he does.  Regardless of a vast vocabulary, I can't articulate it - I don't know if the words even exist to describe it.

Now he's back in jail, serving a 1 year sentence and hasn't contacted me in months (I've stood by him during is other jail terms).  I still love him but was starting to get some traction with moving on with my life then last week I found out he's been asking about me and I'm right back where I was.  He's my first thought when I wake, last one when I go to sleep and damn near every one in between.  As often as I've tried to hate him, I just can't.  I can't convince myself that he's this mean, cruel man who hurt me on purpose.  I KNOW there is a core of good in him, what i don't know, is how to proceed.  Any advice?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

I am about as opposite to his ex as possible - highly educated, professional career, never been arrested.  I'm not ugly or socially unacceptable - I have lots of options for romantic partners but no man has made me feel the way he does.  Regardless of a vast vocabulary, I can't articulate it - I don't know if the words even exist to describe it.

Now he's back in jail, serving a 1 year sentence and hasn't contacted me in months (I've stood by him during is other jail terms).  I still love him but was starting to get some traction with moving on with my life then last week I found out he's been asking about me and I'm right back where I was.  He's my first thought when I wake, last one when I go to sleep and damn near every one in between.  As often as I've tried to hate him, I just can't.  I can't convince myself that he's this mean, cruel man who hurt me on purpose.  I KNOW there is a core of good in him, what i don't know, is how to proceed.  Any advice?

Hi Need Closure,



Glad to have you with us! I hope you'll stick around and get to know us and give and take all the support you can!

Let's dial back to that moment just before, when "you were just starting to get some traction and move on with your life." This guy, despite the obvious red flags, is the bad boy extraordinaire.  I think when we get to the point where we aren't a little afraid of the signals to not walk into oncoming traffic, we've lost a little touch with ourselves. They weren't quite so glaring, but even in my current situation I walked into a bit of a hornet's nest because I felt fearless and thought "what bad thing could happen to me, the worst has already happened to me in life, i can handle anything!" Wrong.

He's gonna be in a jail. Okay. Things happen. Sure you could stick by him. That's a choice. But as you say, you have other choices and you were just about there, until you heard he was thinking of you and then you melted like butter all over again. Again, do what you want. Wait a year, don't wait a year, but since you seem to be asking for a hand to help you cross over the other side of the river and stand on some dry ground... .here's my hand.   Walk over to this more stable, secure ground. We can help you drop this "addiction." Come here and talk with us, get it out, grow and move forward.

I get it. This guy is probably a lot more exciting than the accountant down the hall, or the guy with the buttoned up shirt who is really "nice" but doesn't make you weak in the knees. But ya know what I've learned? Take the freakin' nice guy, he's probably got a lot of great stuff under the surface, it's a worth a second look. Take the no drama guy who has his stuff together and is stable if you want a stable, drama free life. There are other ways to get excitement. Roller coasters, fast cars, motorcycles, bungee jumping, playing with matches, but not difficult relationships.  

I had that guy. Stable, good guy. Well, his hair was long, and he smoked a lotta weed, but he was stable as h--k and had I stayed with him the worst that might have happened to me is to... .get tired of watching him eat salad with dressing all over his lips just a fraction of a second too long for my eye's pleasure and tell me the same stuff over and over for fifty years. That is literally nothing compared to the nightmares I've lived through since that have wrecked my career options and put a lot of bad miles on this old jalopy.  

So, woman to woman, what do you want? Do you want a guy who makes you feel addicted and is bound to lead to more drama than you may want? Or do you wanna ride the drama train with him?

You don't have to hate him. I don't hate anyone I ever dated. I don't even hate the person I am with and he has done worse things to me than all the other people in my life combined by a long shot. Almost everyone has a good side in them somewhere, and that's great that you can see it, but that doesn't mean this is the right choice for your life. And if there is one thing I can't emphasize enough, make the right choice for your life and no one else's.

If you want to get over this, you might want to write out a list of the reasons NOT to be with him. And don't write out the list of reasons to be with him. Just focus on the reasons not to and let your mind ruminate on that instead instead of his seemingly irresistible manliness and replay that tape in your head morning, noon, and night. You can resist!

with deep compassion, pearl.

p.s. and if you do want him, then let us know and we can talk about good communication.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Need Closure-

I'm sorry, truly sorry for the pain and confusion you're feeling.  There's nothing that's crystal clear about these relationships.  Except for one thing.  At least in my case... .a disordered mind will not ever be able to provide you with kindness or any kind of closure that you seek.  Regardless of the truth about what has taken place, you will be blamed and made to feel fully at fault.  You are NOT.  NO.

Pearls said a LOT.  Here's a bit more.

You seek advice?  Okay, my friend, here it is... .you can only look to you.  You can only rely on yourself and healthy people in your life for your closure, if that's what you really seek.  It cannot matter that he's asking about you.  While you have this respite, think about what your life was like with him IN IT, and ask, "do I WANT THAT?  If your answer is no, then quietly take little baby steps, feel your loneliness, cry your tears, write it out, make some art, and allow yourself to heal and detach.  There are tools here to assist with detachment.  These relationships ARE deeply traumatizing, and take recovery time.  Post here for support... .continuously, if need be.  Some people just need that, because only people who've been living within these chaotic relationships understand how HARD it is to get OUT.  We cannot seem to simply "just move on"... .

 If your answer is yes, that you DO want him IN your life, then you also welcome his ex into your life... .seems like it's a package deal.  Full triangulation.  If that's your answer, harden your shell, find an attorney to keep on retainer (since he accuses YOU of drugging him) work with the tools on this board and begin to learn the language to diffuse the rage.  And it sounds like you'll be periodically "sharing" him with his ex.  Sounds delightful, right?

I'm making this way too black and white for a reason.  You don't have to HATE him.  As much as our BPD partners or exes have made our lives a living hell, us "nons" don't generally live in that black and white thinking.  It's not so easy for us to use the word "hate" and actually mean it and hang onto it for long.  I have said it to myself while in a crumpled pile of tears on the floor after several of his cruel rages.  But I never said it TO him.  And I don't need to hate mine to now understand the damage he's done to me.  And I know mine is not quite finished TRYING to inflict his brand of pain.  He thinks it will make me open the door again... .what he doesn't know is that I'm about as small as I can be right now.  Until I see a text from him.  And then my blood moves to full boil.  But I will be nice until he returns something very expensive that he took from my home.

So you see, feelings DO change.

I didn't know anything about either BPD Or NPD until 3.5 years into my relationship.  I just knew something was horribly wrong... .and then I found it while searching the term "unprovoked rage in men".  What a revelation.  I worked SO HARD at this love.  But this man is so full of hate and rage.  And we're both 60 now.  I don't want to die of "him".

I was with my uBPDbf for 4.5+ years.  And before that, a 19-year marriage with an NPD.  I am the problem.  I have to be the one to stay away, and if you choose, so do you.  That's just the way some of these things go.

My friend, I still have a million questions that will go unanswered.  That's got to be ok.  Because I need and deserve to stop feeling like this.  And so do you.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Need Closure]

Thanks Pearl and Gemsforeyes for your replies.  

I am very conflicted - despite all the things he's done that have hurt me, and even before finding out about BPD I've never been able to accept that he did them maliciously.  I did suspect I was rationalizing but now that there might be a clinical reason for his behavior, I feel guilty for thinking about giving up on him.  

Granted, I don't even know if he wants me back - he could be asking about me for many other reasons.  I DO know that he's in contact with his ex (she is in a halfway house, post-incarceration for drug trafficking), both by phone and mail (a good friend's husband is incarcerated on the same unit as my guy, and he keeps me apprised of how he's doing.  To add another layer of frustration, my guy refuses to discuss me with my friend's hubby - which emoticon means MASSIVE EYE ROLL?).  I worry that he's communicating with her because he thinks I don't love him anymore and will reject him but all he'd have to do to find out is ask M--- - and just writing that I had an "A-Ha moment" He COULD easily find out if he wanted to, he doesn't want to.  

Boy, it bruises the ego when a crass, un-educated skank is deemed better than you... .

 As much as I love him and would take him back (preferably with treatment and willingness to work on bettering our relationship), I'm honest enough to admit that if he wanted or needed me, I'd take him back in a heartbeat regardless of the danger to my physical and emotional safety.  Yes I know that's completely unhealthy, I'm not a pushover, I wouldn't accept this kind of treatment from anyone else and can't ID why I will from him.

But now what do I do with this suspicion that he had BPD?  We'd talked a lot, particularly about his hallucinations (which I've read is quite common with BPD, though it's not part of the diagnostic criteria) and he begged me to help him figure out why he had them.  How do I let him know about this?  

Whew!  It took me 2 hours to write this.  Even when he isn't here, he's emotionally exhausting!

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Need Closure-

You know, the odd thing about this forum is that because we DO share an understanding of these relationships, this leads to quickly developing a feeling of care and concern for our friends here.

You have raised some things of particular concern, and I really ask that you read and absorb your own words.  You say you would "take him back in a heartbeat regardless of the danger to your physical and emotional safety".  There are stories on our forum of women (and men) who have endured horrible physical abuse.  Many of us are here because of emotional abuse - we are trying to recover.  And it's a hard road to recover when you're still living it day in and day out.  But the communication tools help to lessen the blows... .

Now sit with me... .look me in the eyes and see your dearest and most beloved friend - and pretend that I have just said these words to you - "I would take him back in a heartbeat regardless of the danger to my physical and emotional safety."  How would you advise me, knowing that when I am alone with him, you are powerless to protect me?

Second point... .it is strongly advised by the experts in our community to NEVER disclose our suspicions of a BPD diagnosis to those we suspect of having the disorder.  The outcome of this disclosure and our "suspicions" is generally not good.  It can in fact be dangerous and completely twisted around.  If your uBPDbf (undiagnosed BPD boyfriend) has had mental health issues, including hallucinations, and has not sought psychiatric assistance, there is literally zero you can do to help him.  To your knowledge, Has he ever received any therapy before?

If he has been incarcerated before, do you know whether any therapy has been given while he has been in jail?  I would imagine that it would be impossible for him to NOT dysregulate at some point, right?

BPD is a spectrum disorder, from what I understand.  My stbxBPDbf is able to control his rage and save it up for special occasions- "me" for example.  I know this because he has held an extremely responsible job for 14 years, and they would NEVER have tolerated this behavior for one moment.  So he has control.  But prior to that he burned a ton of bridges and does not have a friend in the world.  Not one.  The sadness I attached to that, along with loving him deeply and trying desperately to save him from his destructive behavior nearly did me in.  If my BPDbf had his way, I would be friendless and cut off my entire family, too.

The most important thing for you to know is this: No amount of love will fix him.  You cannot fix him.  No matter what you do.  And pwBPD do not feel love in the same way as "nons".  There is something hollow in there.  You didn't cause it.

I have had to take a deep and painful dive into me.  WHY is this treatment ok?  I'm trying to work on this.  Have you looked at that, NC?  It's an important component.  I see you saying you're not a pushover, you wouldn't accept this treatment from anyone else.  Right, why him?  There is something very complex about these relationships.

And in your situation, you really DO need to acknowledge that there are three of you - your BPDbf, his "ex" and you.  What does the "ex" know about you, and is she a danger to you?  What is your exposure, professionally, if you continue with this relationship?

Sometimes we have to leave because staying is dangerous.  It can be dangerous to our hearts, our bodies, our wallets, our identity, and to our souls.  Or we can stay with eyes wide open.  Your partner has to be a willing participant - to not only be IN the relationship, but to get psychiatric help.  I know... .more questions than answers.  I'm sorry.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes