Dealing with a pwBPD overusing Marijuana... need ideas.

[jokkun]

I was reading the workshop on executive control issues and noticed that a lot of people agreed that drinking reduces either their own or their partner's executive control almost completely. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with their pwBPD overusing Marijuana? Mine says it helps his anxiety (which he DOES shake like he's going into DTs for the first few days he doesn't smoke). However, he overall seems more affectionate and doesn't go into his "withdrawal" periods as frequently when he's sober. He has not smoked this entire week (not for a lack of effort), and he has wanted to hangout/spend time together much more than he ever has. He even invited us to spend the night at his place last night (first time since we've been dating). I've honestly been walking on eggshells out of fear of him "overexerting" and triggering a withdrawal phase. I HAVE noticed, though, that his anger/lashing out and getting frustrated is much more prevalent while he's sober (though I can tell he acknowledges it and tries to correct it ).

Meanwhile, when he's smoking he's MUCH more reserved, aloof, and goes into withdrawal periods a lot more. Spending a day with us can trigger a "I need a break" period. He also seems to regress to his more aloof, histrionic tendencies of attention-seeking from others during these. I honestly think it's more of a "the more time I spend with them, the more it's gonna hurt when they abandon me" kind of withdrawal. And he is almost always high, even prior to going to work. So I'm far more used to this behavior.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Or substance abuse with a pwBPD in general?

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[pearlsw]

Hi jokkun,

This is an interesting question! I hope others will join us here and share their thoughts and experiences as well!

My SO is now on anti-depressants and he is also drinking daily. He usually watches how much because he is very precise about his caloric intake, but sometimes I think he is not eating enough food and making up the other calories with alcohol. He usually only has exactly two drinks a day.

I have to admit there have been times that I prefer he drinks because he is nicer when he drinks. Not always, but usually. I have to say I would not mind if he used medical marijuana, I think others here have partners that do, because I like to imagine it would make him more mellow. As long as it had that effect and didn't make him zoned out and high (and non-functioning) I'd welcome it. I think marijuana can have health benefits for many health issues, but about the ones we focus on here on the site I am not so sure. But it seems logical to me, although I grant I am only observing one person so I could be wrong!

I do have some concern in that my SO has a tendency towards addiction. He's been a smoker and has been for years. He often expresses fears of becoming an alcoholic and on really bad days lately he's even blaming me for him turning to alcohol. I don't take that on though.

What ideas do others have?

take care, pearl.

[WileyCoyote]

Hi There Jokkun!

Current studies show that marijuana it is very helpful with PTSD.  BPD is very similar to PTSD.  So much so that my wife's T can't yet make a determination of whether she is suffering form one or the other.  

 Check out this link:
Medical Marijuana for PTSD

Quote of note:
" a friend of mine, who recently started using marijuana instead of prescription medication for PTSD, said that with the cannabis, he can feel his emotions, and experience them properly and safely. Before, he just felt numb."

That numbness there is most likely dissociation..

I can say as an addict myself that this was true for me.  I am a nonBPD but suffer from traumas from childhood as well as from my current relationship.

Pot helped me through some tough times as a young person.  Then when I "grew up" I put that away as something bad and took up alcohol as the "responsible thing to do".  LOL  ugh.  Wish I never did as I became an alcoholic.  At the core though I was just an trauma sufferer trying to find the right self medication.

They do similar things, but alcohol not only lets you feel those emotions with less self judgment, you also have a tendency to act out on them due to lack of inhibition/executive function when you are finally at the level of "problem drinking"... .once you lose control of the "drink to make the feelings tolerable" which like in Pearl's case makes someone at ease.  

I laugh with my therapist because I like to say I was and am the best damn alcoholic I have ever met.  Always nice, never violent, good job, good friends... etc.   I was just trying to be ok.  It took me a decade to get to the point where it didn't work for me and I realized I was physically addicted to alcohol.

Anyway, I digress.  That is legit anxiety that he seems to be experiencing and it seems to help him if I am understanding you.  And IMHO it is healthier than Xanax.

Your topic title is "dealing with overuse of marijuana".    

At what point is it overuse for you?  Is there a level of use that you find more acceptable?  I ask because it seems your post says it helps him.  But you think he does it too much.  What would you like to see happen?

Only real long term course of action is therapy and confronting all the emotions that he has been avoiding by medicating.  And being sober... .or using appropriate meds with doctor supervision... .which depending on where you are could be Marijuana.

[WileyCoyote]

OK.  I read it again.  I think I projected a little cause I want my wife's anger to be less so I interpreted that as it helping him.   So I think you are saying that the more affectionate stuff you like when sober, but more anger.   When smoking less anger, but wants more alone time.   

Chances are when he is using he is really working to process those negative emotions.  I'm guessing here, but he might need more alone time to work through that stuff.

When sober he might be more affectionate, but then gets angry/fear of abandonment of that closeness, and he can't process that.  Make sense?



On a side note.  I'm not sure how savvy your are to the use of Pot or your own experience so I will add this one warning.  There are now synthetic cannibinoids called Spice that are sold in some gas stations as "incense" in little packets.

They are making it illegal where they can but you can still get it.

I only bring that up because this is NOT marijuana and can have actual physical withdrawal that has Parkinson like tremors and sweating.   Just something to look out for.  Not trying to scare you, just inform you. Knowledge is power.  

So his shaking is most likely anxiety, but it could be the above. So just be aware.

[jokkun]

Wiley,

It is indeed the affection that I like when he's not high. As opposed to a lot of pwBPD, he's not OVERTLY clingy. When he's high, he's not affectionate at all hardly. More typical "stoned" behavior, and he does tend to withdraw a lot more into phases he calls "recharge phases" (coined that by his therapist). And I do think it has a lot to do with the Marijuana slowing him down and he over-processes everything high (he smokes Sativa/"loud" -- so it's a mind high).

I say overuse because, I kid you not, he is always high if it's available to him. This week he was out, so I noticed the remarkable difference (he was out when we first started dating as well). So, I guess I kind of liken this "sober" him to the one I initially started to fall for. He also has histrionic tendencies and those are MUCH more prevalent when he's under the influence of Alcohol and especially Marijuana; which this also bothers me greatly.

When I say histrionic tendencies, I mean he is overly flirtatious, does things that wouldn't be appropriate in a relationship (hanging out with an ex alone, for example), and he LOVES snapchat (which honestly is the bane of a lot of relationships). I know from discussion with him that an ex of his left him after he cheated on him with a guy he was talking to/sexting through snapchat. He says the ex "pushed him to do it," but he has also said Marijuana makes him extremely "in the mood." And "in the mood" + high + withdrawing from me + still seeking attention/talking to snapchat guys/his exes = bad scenario for me. Then again, one of my subtraits is paranoia. So on the flipside, I'm also wondering if Marijuana could help that with that.

[WileyCoyote]

Hmmmm.  OK I think I can see something here.  This is all speculation so take it for what it is.

On complex level, when he is not using, he probably does want to be affectionate to you, but then has thoughts about flirting, snapchatting, etc.  Or even thoughts along the lines that if he is thinking that way... you must be too.  Feels shame about his thoughts, as he knows what you would think of that.  Fears abandonment from you thinking the same way.  Acts out.

We all can love someone and find other people attractive. And not act on that. In the black in white world of BPD they have a hard time reconciling that.  

When he is using, I think he might not feel that shame.  He can look at those thoughts and not feel like it means he is a bad person.  So in his mind you couldn't think he is a bad person for that inappropriate behavior. either.  Shoot... he might have a hard time even realizing it is inappropriate... .Lack of boundaries.  He might be thinking... .what does it matter if I flirt and hang out with exes if I only come home to you?  This might just be a boundary that you need to work on enforcing and deciding what is acceptable to you.


OR he might just withdraw to be alone and smoke more pot without feeling judged/shame for doing that.     and your self admitted paranoia might be sending your mind into bad places.  Something to consider.  

Also,  At the beginning of your relationship when he wasn't using.  He might not have NEEDED to.  As it was the honeymoon phase most likely and he was not close enough to you to fear abandonment yet.

But just like any mood altering medication, dosage is the key difference to constructive therapeutic use and destructive misuse.

How truthful is he with his T about his constant use, and what does the T say?  That is if he has talked with you about that.  Most T's would advocate for abstaining if it is possible and trying to work through the feelings in therapy. At the very least slowly using less and or trying to find a use level that is therapeutic.

[WileyCoyote]

And as far as treating paranoia with pot.  That is a crap-shoot.  Some people get so damn paranoid on pot that they can't function.  Some people it helps them realize how silly paranoia is.  You won't know until you try, and different strains are different.  So consult with someone at the dispensary about that before you buy some random stuff.

Making no recommendation here, just trying to keep you safe.