Third relationship with a Cluster B ... how do I break the pattern?

[Fireguy]

Not sure what to put here. I am lost. I spent the last 5 years in crazy land with my now ex, trying to feel good about myself by loving someone who had never been loved before. The lunacy got to be so much that I actually got some clarity from a simple afternoon away from it and in a moment of sheer desperation broke it off.

Somewhat free of it, I am so scared that I will repeat this behavior myself. This is my 3rd long term relationship with a B cluster personality.

 Advice is always appreciated.

[Mutt]

Hi Fireguy,



I'm sorry that you're going through this as you already know a r/s with a cluster B personality disorder is like being on an emotional rollercoaster. That said there's an addictive quality to the chaos what do you mean by you're almost free of it? Are you done with the r/s? How long have been broken up? Are you two in touch with each other?

[Skip]

Can you right down what was most attractive (in the beginning, then in the course of the relations) about the 3 exs... .in 25 words, more or less for each.

Its a good place to start.   

[CryWolf]

Can you right down what was most attractive (in the beginning, then in the course of the relations) about the 3 exs... .in 25 words, more or less for each.

Its a good place to start.   

I would also like to know more about your exes. Getting to know what attracted you and drawn you to these different partners will help us get a better understanding of the situation and help you in the best we can.

It can be scary opening your heart to new people, only to fall flat to the same devastating results. Unfortunately dating is a pool of fish and it doesnt matter if youre a good fisher or not, youll pick up a fish you dont want.

[pallavirajsinghani]

Hello My Friend:

Welcome to our caring and supportive family.  I am sorry that you are going through hard times. Know that you are not alone as there is an entire community here to help you through.

It seems to me that sometimes we confuse anxiety with excitement, something like when we watch a horror movie and our heart is beating fast and the blood is ready to jump out of its veins.  We feel as though it is excitement, when it is probably an adrenaline release. Do you think that your are repeating certain patterns as a relationship with a non-Cluster B sufferer seems tame and unexciting?

Thank you for sharing.

Pallavi

[Fireguy]

I would also like to know more about your exes. Getting to know what attracted you and drawn you to these different partners will help us get a better understanding of the situation and help you in the best we can.

It can be scary opening your heart to new people, only to fall flat to the same devastating results. Unfortunately dating is a pool of fish and it doesnt matter if youre a good fisher or not, youll pick up a fish you dont want.

I have learned that the major factor in my attraction to and attraction from my exes is my susceptibility to love bombing and people that needed saving. Basically it fills a hole (temporarily). That hole is a lack of love for myself. I attained love by "giving" 100%, saving others, fixing others and had a skewed view of  what I was getting in return. I made allowances for their destructive behaviors (even when they didn't recognize or care about the damage they were doing) in that "they had a tough life", and if I try just a little harder they will understand that I love them more than anyone ever. Meanwhile never thinking "a normal person would run away from this, it is going to destroy you".

Ya, I was completely blind to my own internal issues. I wasn't aware until I finally had enough of the craziness and broke it off. I am on a much better path now, but the sense of being lost is tremendous. I don't trust myself like I used to.

[Fireguy]

Can you right down what was most attractive (in the beginning, then in the course of the relations) about the 3 exs... .in 25 words, more or less for each.

Its a good place to start.   

Ex #1: She liked me. It was that simple. She hunted me down like prey. I loved being wanted. I thought it was great! Until the destruction rolled in. Then I did all the work trying to get that person to stay consistently. Once the cheating was revealed I was done.
Ex#2: Fireworks! Talked about children on our second date. Nuclear love bombs. "this was the one" Married in 9 months.  20 years later and a few restraining orders she still thinks she can feed on me (according to her counselor: high functioning NPD).
Ex#3: I picked this one. quiet as a church mouse, home body, safe, beautiful, little to no family so she fit into our very large family easily, very few friends. Slowly but surely the anger came out, the eating disorder, the lying and the manipulation then the cheating. 

[CryWolf]

That hole is a lack of love for myself. I attained love by "giving" 100%, saving others, fixing others and had a skewed view of  what I was getting in return. I made allowances for their destructive behaviors (even when they didn't recognize or care about the damage they were doing) in that "they had a tough life", and if I try just a little harder they will understand that I love them more than anyone ever.

Im glad you saw this. It takes a while, and a lot of heartbreak and pain. But this is why.

Your story resonates very very well with me.

I also dated 3 cluster B's in a row. third was a maybe since she said "i kinda have bipolar"

first one: was my first love. 3 years together. I would give more information but you know the drill. Broke my heart. left me broken for so long and stll picking up the pieces.

second: love bombing right off the bat. then ghosting and coming back. multiple guys in the pic. major depression. I sensed mood swings, saw her cry then stop when she saw me.

third: went on two dates, said she has bipolar. not sure if joking or not.

last two girls ended in ghosting.

I asked myself, why am i attracting these girls? Well the thing is, you attract anyone. Whether you pursue or not is up to you. Dating is like fishing/casino. you never ever know what youre going to get. But chances are if you dont love yourself, respect yourself then you will pursue for those toxic relationships to fill a void you couldnt with yourself.

Another thing is to look at your foo. We find r/s with partners to cope with r/s we had growing up. I recently discovered my grandma might have BPD. and my dad whom left might be narc. i go for unaivable girls in hopes they stay the way my dad couldnt.

All possibilites man. But whether you get 20 more cluster b girls to you, you can have the power to say no. and who knows, maybe the 21st will be the one.

[Cromwell]

Ya, I was completely blind to my own internal issues. I wasn't aware until I finally had enough of the craziness and broke it off. I am on a much better path now, but the sense of being lost is tremendous. I don't trust myself like I used to.

Sounds like the experience(s) did have a role in reaching this awakening, you seem like you have reflected on them and found some sense of yourself. I can understand the feeling of being lost as a result, you have behaved in a set way that was aligned to your personality but only through the experiences has it brought you to consider.

Trust in oneself after being through this can be threatened. After all, the relationship finished with some hurtfulness attached and trying to make sense of how it happened has led to identifying a part of yourself that might have contributed.

Having the experience as well as knowing yourself better, you can now apply to meeting new people with a different perspective than before. Patterns from the past can be recognised, more self awareness of what went wrong and right before to guide you.

If you had not discovered all this, there may have been the destiny to keep repeating, getting into similar situations. You have the benefit now of applying the knowledge gained and if needs be, work on yourself to recognise this strong feeling to rescue and how it led to not actually fulfilling your need to the extent you had hoped. Perhaps in the future, more assertiveness not to pander to the needs of others to such an extent as you had before? Breaking the pattern involves meeting new people and putting this into practice, altering almost conditioned behaviour that you have carried so long. Its not easy to break habits, but it can be done by actively being aware and making different/better choices and actions.

[Husband321]

I personally feel there are more women today who exhibit cluster b personalities than there were in the past.  More broken homes, internet dating, social media etc. they may not even be a cluster b, but they fit many of the criteria.

I was reading studies about the large number of college age girls who pay their way through school with sugar daddies. Sure escorts were always around, but now it is just getting paid to have sex and go on dates with the click of a mouse.  Now how do you think these girls will act in a relationship when real life starts?

[zachira]

How to break the pattern? You are doing that now by taking a look at your pattern. Learn as much as you can about how to have a healthy relationship with self and others, and how to avoid getting involved with the people who are waving big red flags that spell relationship disaster. A great read: ":)eeper Dating" by Ken Page, available on Amazon. Keep us posted on how you are doing, and share with us what you are learning.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Fireguy,

What would you say is your perception of an 'ideal' r/s?  What would the perfect r/s look like to you?  Sometimes it's good to really think about that and then consider whether it is very realistic.  For example, many of us here probably had an ideal that was built around a construct of good marketing, as one of our articles explains well:

Our culture portrays romantic love, in songs, television, and movies, as being a relationship in which the partners are inseparable, are nothing without each other, and one in which each partner derives her/his very sense of self from the other.  While portrayed as the ideal, this is actually a model of a very unhealthy relationship.

A high proportion of us are caretaker / codependent types.  I identify as such.  Take heart.  It is possible to change the behaviour, replacing it with a healthier approach.  I'm currently in therapy getting to the core issues that cause the low self esteem which has driven my behaviour.  You're already aware of your rescuing tendencies and the attraction of helping a partner, which is a good start.  From the same article as above:

The concept of codependency provides a useful framework for examining how healthy our interactions are in relationships with others.  Becoming aware of your codependent traits is the first, and most important step in dealing with them.  With awareness comes the opportunity for change.  The fact is that codependency is learned - and as such, it can be unlearned.

You can read the whole article here:

Codependency and codependent relationships

I'd be interested to know if you find many of the checklist statements resonate with you?  Who else in your life do you have support from?  Family/friends/a therapist?

I'll look forward to hearing your thoughts on the attached article.  It was an eye opener for me.

Love and light x

[Fireguy]

Hi Fireguy,

What would you say is your perception of an 'ideal' r/s?  What would the perfect r/s look like to you?  Sometimes it's good to really think about that and then consider whether it is very realistic.  For example, many of us here probably had an ideal that was built around a construct of good marketing, as one of our articles explains well:

A high proportion of us are caretaker / codependent types.  I identify as such.  Take heart.  It is possible to change the behaviour, replacing it with a healthier approach.  I'm currently in therapy getting to the core issues that cause the low self esteem which has driven my behaviour.  You're already aware of your rescuing tendencies and the attraction of helping a partner, which is a good start.  From the same article as above:
 

You can read the whole article here:

Codependency and codependent relationships

I'd be interested to know if you find many of the checklist statements resonate with you?  Who else in your life do you have support from?  Family/friends/a therapist?

I'll look forward to hearing your thoughts on the attached article.  It was an eye opener for me.

Love and light x

I am sorry, I don't know what r/s is. I did extensive reading on the codependency part of my life. It has been part of it in the past but it does not really apply to my life recently or, at least not now. Caretaking and expecting the returning love to fill a hole in me was massively destructive. It really explains my behaviors in the past, the people I chose to be with, and my massive disappointment when my care wasn't returned.

 Walking on my own feet with my own purpose and opening up with my friends and family about my experience (all of them, without exception, were very supportive and basically said "its so great that you finally see it) has been wonderful. I have a therapist that is a phenomenal sounding board and has a lot of real truth for me. It is so refreshing to have reality back. I describe it as if someone has turned on the light during a really scary movie. Suddenly there is no fear (most of the time) and the world takes on a new look.   

I am taking my caretaker elements and applying them to myself. Some of this for the first time in my life. And surprise surprise, I found the peace that I was looking for. A long, but beautiful path going forward.

I have found that most of my core beliefs are Buddhist in nature, which while a bit of a shock, was also comforting. I have made great strides in self awareness and applying what I was giving to others and giving it to myself.

[Shawnlam]

Hi fireguy,
   Hopefully I can help a bit here by suggesting some exercises I’m presently doing myself .The first one that helped me a lot was a good therapist “someone neutral” who didn’t know me and could place the puzzle pieces in order with no bias involved.In my case it allowed me to understand what my issues where and what I needed to work on in general.One of my worst character traits was feeling vulnerable, I feared it so much that anger and close mindedness would flow from me at epic levels in order to not feel vulnerable.Another one that stood out for me was lack of control ,I hated not controlling.Once a good therapist  sees patterns they will dig deeper to find out why,and then tools to deal with it.
If therapy is outside your reach for whatever reason that’s ok to ,there are things you can do yourself that will help(here are some my therapist had me do).An example of this would be to write down what you loved about the three relationships .Things like  : I loved texting or talking all the time or I loved how she would make me feel with all her compliments or I loved that she wanted to plan our life together kids ,house etc etc I’m sure you get the idea.This will need to be three lists one for each relationship, then trends can be seen when comparing .You could post on here what those are without the intimate details of course .The staff and people on this site have been through or are going through what you are or have been .A lot of us learnt the reasons behind the “why this happened”, and to be honest I have seen a lot of success from people when they work on themselves(me included).

Getting to the point where self reflection happens is tuff , human nature is to look for a problem elsewhere first .I came here thinking ,I will just become a BPD expert and this will solve my problems since I can see the red flags,control the situation and feel better about what happened.Well that didn’t work out at all for me , only until I started looking in the mirror and realizing all my flaws did change help.I was able to heal from the hurt of losing the relationship,I understood my failures in the relationship, I stopped blaming BPD because honestly it wasn’t the primary cause of why I felt so bad . I think we can help you here to understand the patterns that you yourself have acknowledged which in itself is a first great step .Please feel free to ask an questions or if you need some pointers on where to get started .( the example above is a good start) , that’s what my therapist did with me to start .

[Panda39]

I identify with the care taker role as well.  My whole dating life before my current partner was finding bad boys or damaged boys with good hearts to take care of. Interestingly all my past serious boyfriends/husband came from single mother homes with dad's out of the picture and the most serious 2 relationships I had were guys who were adopted.

For me I had the same realization that you did, once I saw my pattern.  I was so focused on them, what they needed, what made them happy, how they were feeling that I never stopped to look at what I was receiving.

Originally I thought I wasn't receiving a lot... .but then I read a book about co-dependence that turned on some lightbulbs for me 

Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself
by Melody Beattie

I realized that what I was getting out of it was a self-esteem boost.  I could feel better about myself because "they" were the ones with the problems that needed fixing.  My ex husband was an alcoholic... .I could feel good about myself, because I was responsible, had my act together, was the better parent... .it's horrible to say this but I could lift myself up by stepping on him. 

I also agree things go back to our Family of Origin (FOO), I had a mother that was very critical that did a number on my self-esteem.  I also never felt connected to her and in some ways not connected to my brother either, he was close to my mom.  Thankfully I had a dad that loved me just the way I was and who I had a great connection to. 

When I look back, from my perspective I had a fractured family so I sought out familyless partners to create a family.

My current partner... .and we are a true "partnership" would not have been anyone I would have dated in the past.  What is different about him?  He was a conscious decision on my part and thought out choice. 

I divorced after 20 years, the year of my divorce was a year of breakdowns and breakthroughs.  I came out of my marriage having learned some lessons so I was different than I had been before.  I read dating books, talked to my younger friends about the strange new world of on-line dating, I took time on my own (over a year before approaching dating), I thought about what I really wanted and what would be deal breakers for me and logged on to an on-line dating site.  I reviewed many people and who did a pick? Not a bad boy... .nope he's a nerd.  The familyless boy? Nope divorced with 2 daughters raised in a family of 5 with both parents. He was a different decision and that decision is having a different outcome.

Panda39

[Fireguy]

For me I had the same realization that you did, once I saw my pattern.  I was so focused on them, what they needed, what made them happy, how they were feeling that I never stopped to look at what I was receiving.

Originally I thought I wasn't receiving a lot... .but then I read a book about co-dependence that turned on some lightbulbs for me 

Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself
by Melody Beattie


Panda39

Sounds like a great book, ordering it today.

Question for you Panda39: When you came to realize your true self and the reason's for your behaviors, can you describe the your journey immediately afterwards? I see the long term effects in your post. I am curious about the shorter term fallout. Personally? With your support system?

[Fireguy]

Hi fireguy,
   Hopefully I can help a bit here by suggesting some exercises I’m presently doing myself .The first one that helped me a lot was a good therapist “someone neutral” who didn’t know me and could place the puzzle pieces in order with no bias involved.In my case it allowed me to understand what my issues where and what I needed to work on in general.One of my worst character traits was feeling vulnerable, I feared it so much that anger and close mindedness would flow from me at epic levels in order to not feel vulnerable.Another one that stood out for me was lack of control ,I hated not controlling.Once a good therapist  sees patterns they will dig deeper to find out why,and then tools to deal with it.
If therapy is outside your reach for whatever reason that’s ok to ,there are things you can do yourself that will help(here are some my therapist had me do).An example of this would be to write down what you loved about the three relationships .Things like  : I loved texting or talking all the time or I loved how she would make me feel with all her compliments or I loved that she wanted to plan our life together kids ,house etc etc I’m sure you get the idea.This will need to be three lists one for each relationship, then trends can be seen when comparing .You could post on here what those are without the intimate details of course .The staff and people on this site have been through or are going through what you are or have been .A lot of us learnt the reasons behind the “why this happened”, and to be honest I have seen a lot of success from people when they work on themselves(me included).

Getting to the point where self reflection happens is tuff , human nature is to look for a problem elsewhere first .I came here thinking ,I will just become a BPD expert and this will solve my problems since I can see the red flags,control the situation and feel better about what happened.Well that didn’t work out at all for me , only until I started looking in the mirror and realizing all my flaws did change help.I was able to heal from the hurt of losing the relationship,I understood my failures in the relationship, I stopped blaming BPD because honestly it wasn’t the primary cause of why I felt so bad . I think we can help you here to understand the patterns that you yourself have acknowledged which in itself is a first great step .Please feel free to ask an questions or if you need some pointers on where to get started .( the example above is a good start) , that’s what my therapist did with me to start .

My biggest question is once you move into the realm of self reflection, has that lead you to question your perception of events of the past?

[Shawnlam]

Once self reflection starts to happen at important levels ,you don’t really question past events so much ,you just understand what went wrong and why.

[Panda39]

Question for you Panda39: When you came to realize your true self and the reason's for your behaviors, can you describe the your journey immediately afterwards? I see the long term effects in your post. I am curious about the shorter term fallout. Personally? With your support system?

This was not a linear progression and did not happen all at once.  It has been identifying different things at different times. 

A lot happened during my divorce... .my divorce and sharing with others actually grew my support system. I literally felt like whatever I needed just appeared in front of me... .but in reality I was finally letting others in, asking for help and accepting help.

I realized my self-esteem had been in the toilet and had some realizations about my upbringing, my mother and my beliefs about her and myself.  I finally believed that my authentic self was good enough... .was perfect/whole as I am... .that I was loved for who I am.  My mother's opinions are just that, her opinions. 

Sometime later my first Chirstmas after my divorce I visited her and experienced "Wise Mind".(had no idea at the time there was a name for it) I would describe "Wise Mind" as being in a conversation or interaction while also being an observer.  In looking at my mom as an observer I saw her insecurities, that she didn't know how to ask for what she needed, that control was important to her, keeping up appearances were important to her etc.  She was no longer this all powerful being, she was human and imperfect just like the rest of us.

Has our relationship changed yes.  I am unapologetically me, I no longer try to gain her approval, I also no longer take offense to the hurtful things she can say (they say more about her than they do about me), and I acknowledge that we are not close and that is okay.

My divorce... .many people including myself IMO can stay too long in a relationship that isn't working (okay true confession I stayed about 17 yeas too long  ).  I was in a co-dependent alcoholic marriage that predictably was on a downward trajectory for long time.  My leaving the marriage was a catalyst for change not only for me but my ex and my son.

I was free of the drama and fights.  I had peace and my own place.  I felt strong and had a wonderful social life and support system.

My son came with me (with weekend visitation with his dad) he had what I had, but surprising to me at the time anxiety began to surface.  This is where I started to understand the effects of my marriage on my son.  I thought I was protecting him by being his dad's target for verbal abuse... .but I was an idiot my son had been a witness to it all.  My son's role in the family had been to stay under the radar.  When I left the marriage and took him with me he could come out from behind the shadows and be himself.  I got him into therapy and he still has some anxiety but now has the tools to deal with it.

My ex had his 3rd DUI, lost his license, lost his retirement to pay for attorneys and then went to work smelling like alcohol and lost his job.  He hit rock bottom... .finally after 20 years... .finally I wasn't there to manage things anymore (co-dependent!).  He finally stopped denying he had a problem, he finally got help, he finally became sober and as been for 6 years.

My finding my self esteem, accepting support, and deciding to leave my marriage was a positive thing for us all.  I was happy, my son received the attention he needed and saw that people can grow and change... .that his parents could... .that he could, and my ex found sobriety, a new girlfriend and is also much happier.  That was the fallout of leaving my marriage.

Interestingly, in terms of romantic relationship patterns, because of the changes in myself I made a different choice in partner.  It wasn't until I arrived here years after my divorce and after being in my current relationship that I saw my patterns with the men I had dated, so this had no impact on my choice of partner at all.

So the some effects of my journey... .regaining self-esteem, identifying my support system, accepting my mother as she is, accepting myself as I am, asking for what I need, letting go of co-dependence, change can be good, making conscious decisions in choice of partner, it's okay to put myself first some of the time... .

I hope I've answered the question.

Panda39
 

[Harley Quinn]

I am sorry, I don't know what r/s is.

Apologies - shorthand for relationship.  It's wonderful to hear that you are making great strides in therapy and in knowing yourself.  Turning those caretaker tendencies towards ourselves can certainly be difficult and feel strange at first but I agree from my own experience that it does bring a state of peace and ease which was previously missing.  As someone great once said 'We have all we need within ourselves'. 

Love and light x

[gotbushels]

Fireguy   

Thank you for sharing. I hope you find peace and a pattern that you prefer. 

It seems to me that sometimes we confuse anxiety with excitement

Thanks pallavirajsinghani. I learned something here. 

[Cat Familiar]

Hi Fireguy,
I'm also a member of the Cluster B club: two marriages fit the pattern.

A couple of things occurred to me about my relationship history:
1. I liked guys who had a childlike innocence. (What I didn't realize was that childlike behavior accompanied that.)
2. I thought caretaking was the way to express love

What they got from me: a mom. That certainly wasn't what I entered the relationship to do. I didn't want to control, police, manage, organize them, but when I realized they seemingly were incapable of doing that themselves, I stepped up to the plate.    It's taken me a while to let my current husband experience consequences of his own behavior. I still catch myself trying to intercede. 

I've had to unwind a lot of my own programming from childhood, and like you, applying my tendency to caretake to myself has been very healing.  

Cat