How do you "satisfy" your validation needs when you're in a BPD relationship

[Chosen]

I know from the Lessons that we all have validation needs, and that we probably are quite needy in this department as well, although being invalidated to us will bring much less consequences than being invalidating to our pwBPD.   I admit that I do seek validation, and I certainly would like somebody to tell me that it's ok to be myself, to feel the things I feel.  But alas, with a pwBPD, this is close to impossible.  

My question is, how do you "satisfy" your validation needs when you're in a relationship with a pwBPD?  A lot of times, I can't express what I feel/ think because he will either invalidate me, making me feel even worse than before, or he will say/ do certain things to try and change how I feel/ think, and then I must agree with him otherwise he complains about how ungrateful I am.  For example, "I'm feeling pretty low today." (not because of him), he would probably respond by saying that I have got him, he has been doing all these things for me, so I should be feeling happy.  (and if I express any other sentiment, he would not accept it)  So basically, I would express myself then get nothing, or get scolded for the way I feel.  Sometimes I still express myself because I'm a talker, but when I can help it, I don't express myself, to the point that I believe there is nobody I can talk to now or nobody who will understand my situation.  I crave the closeness other couples have, that they can talk openly to one another without fear of the other party judging, slamming your feelings and then saying you're a bad person for feeling a certain way.

Anyone experiencing the same, and how do you cope with it?

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[Woodchuck]

Chosen-
Good morning!  I can really empathize with how you feel about validation.  Over the past several years I have worked myself to death in part to get some kind of validation from my W.  I too seek validation and am very rarely met with anything but invalidation.  Even just validating that I am trying even I am not getting anything 'right'. 
I have personally satisfied my validation needs in some unhealthy ways in the past.  Currently, I am attempting to meet those needs through my hobby/business.  I get a lot of great feedback from people that I create things for.  I find it hard to truly accept the positive feedback due to the negative feedback I consistently get at home. 
I too cannot express how I feel without being invalidated.  The classic response is either, 'not my probelm', or 'I am sorry you choose to feel that way'.  In my mind, there is a huge difference between 'I am sorry you feel that way' and 'I am sorry you choose to feel that way'.  A classic example is trying to express how hurtful it was to hear her tell our pastor during a counseling session that she would be relieve if I was dead.  That comment floored me to say the least.  Later I tried to communicate how hurtful that was and her response was basically, 'I am sorry you choose to feel that way.  I am not sorry that I feel the way I do.  It is your fault that I feel like I would be relieve if you died.  If you were a kind and loving husband, I wouldn't feel that way.  It is your choice to be hurt by it.'  Those are not her exact words but they pretty much sum up what was said.
I crave the closeness that I see in other couples as well.  I long to be able to just go out together and have a good time but she shows zero interest and instead tells me that I don't accept her for who she is and just want her to be someone different.  It would be amazing to be able to sit down and talk like two adults and be understanding of each others feelings and come to an agreement or compromise on things and move forward with a mutual respect for each other.  Unfortunately her mentality is that if my thoughts/wants/needs differ from hers, she is going to choose hers. 
After finding this site, I have slowly come to the realization that this is pretty much just the way that things are going to be and I am working on not expecting validation or really much of anything from her.  I will focus on getting my validation needs met by friends and family as well as customers as I mentioned before.  Another great source of validation has been all the support that I have received here.  Interacting with fellow members here has.  I hope you are able to find some effective ways to have your validation needs met as it is very important to take care of you.  Keep your head up and keep posting.  Have a great day!

Woodchuck

[pearlsw]

Hi Chosen,

I think this is a very important issue that you raise. You mention that sometimes it gets to the point that it feels like nobody understands your situation. I feel similarly at times, like the threads and complications are too much to explain, especially after years and years of a relationship.

I have gotten used to knowing that my SO has limitations in terms of supporting, listening, or anything emotional. I struggled with it, and I think if I had more friendships here it would be something I could manage with. Even without that I do okay. I am pretty independent and self-sufficient in terms of emotional needs.

One thing I did though, because he is brilliant, but not so articulate, is write out some things for him to say. In his case he appreciated it because he gets very tongue tied and does not know how to respond. For awhile that made me feel a little bitter, like I might as well be alone if that is all he could offer, but in time I came to accept that this is just how his brain works and he is doing the best he can. I tried to praise him for the nice things, any nice thing I could find to say.

I have hobbies and interest and just enough work to keep me surprisingly busy a lot of the time, though I would like more of a life.

Can you tell us more about the kinds of things you would like to hear? I ask, because maybe you could find other ways to hear those things, but I am not sure.

wishing you peace, pearl.

[lenfan]

"'I'm feeling pretty low today." (not because of him), he would probably respond by saying that I have got him, he has been doing all these things for me, so I should be feeling happy."

I go through the lack of validation too.  My T suggested that I communicate the response I am looking for. So, after you have gotten that unsatisfying response to your statement about feeling low, your response might be, "I'm grateful for all nice things you do for me; I was just hoping [for a hug right now/ you'd tell me everything is going to be alright/ an acknowledgement that I had a tough day at work, etc.]. Then, just leave it at that. No need for a big discussion or push-back if he ignores you or responds negatively. Try to avoid the word "you" so it doesn't come off like an accusation.  You might get a response you are looking for, but if not, you might feel a bit of self comfort, and it might work the next time around. It has worked fairly well for me on occasion. Not a magic bullet, but  it has helped.

When the mood has been right, I've communicated the response I want in advance. "I'm going to tell you I'm feeling pretty low today, and I'd like you to please respond just by saying X, or rubbing my back, or [whatever]." Or even, "Please respond to the next thing I'm about to say with  . . . " Tone of voice is tricky, you don't want to come across as snide, sarcastic, or needy; try for a matter-of-fact or humorous tone.  It might work, you might get a negative response, or a  laugh, or the right words with not much apparent sincerity behind them  . . .but even that's better than being told you shouldn't feel the way you do.

Good luck!         

[isilme]

When I seek comfort or validation I get told to stop fishing for compliments.   Or asked, "what do you think I can possibly do for you?"  With a tone that means, go away.  Sometimes I can et him to simply acquiesce to a hug.  Sometimes I can get some emotional feedback from simply sitting on the couch together.  But yes, I feel lacking, too. 

I just see him as too full of messed up emotions to often have room to consider mine.  This has had me pretty low myself lately, and I'm not doing great regulating myself.  It seems that migraine prodrome can include high levels of emotions, leading to me feeling extremely upset this past week, off and on, as my head reacts to the weather.

I don't do well with that - I like my emotions baseline.  Like flat.  I told a friend yesterday after a brief fight with H that I got through high school pretending to be Data from Star Trek. 

I come here for validation.  And I grew up an only child, often neglected, abused, and ignored inconsistent affection, so I kinda guess my validation meter is pretty low.  I get crumbs and feel like it's amazing.

[Woodchuck]

I come here for validation.  And I grew up an only child, often neglected, abused, and ignored inconsistent affection, so I kinda guess my validation meter is pretty low.  I get crumbs and feel like it's amazing.

isilme-
I have found this to be a great place for validation and it is definitely better than no validation.  I think, at least for me, that there is a bit of a difference between 'anonymous' validation and receiving validation from someone that knows me.  At the same time, I find it hard to accept validation from people that know me, in large part due to the constant invalidation I receive from my W.  When I was talking with my pastor a week or so ago about what was going on, he told me that I was really a great guy and he was proud of how I was handling thing.  His comment hit me like a ton of bricks and flooded me with emotion.  It was great to hear but I had a hard time just accepting his comment and found myself questioning the validation.  I know exactly what you mean about getting crumbs and feeling amazing when you do get them.  It is like there is a glimmer of hope for a moment. 

[Chosen]

Thanks all of you!  I feel a bit better already, a bit less alone.  As I have often said, I don't wish my own situation on anyone, but since there are lots of people like me in this world, it is comforting to talk to you all, even though we may never actually meet. 

I don't have any family members I could talk to.  With 2 small children, I don't have any time for friends.  uBPDh also doesn't like me talking about him with anybody, but that's a topic for another day.  So basically, even friends I've had for 20+ years don't know my situation.  Sometimes I feel a bit like I'm living a lie!  But thank God I found this site.  It's been saving my sanity for the past few years.  I come here for validation as well, to feel "normal" even when my life looks crazy in real life.  But besides here, I don't really get validation anywhere else.  I mean, I get validation at work, but that's different, because nobody at work can validate choices I make in my personal life. 

Just like Woodchuck, my H would "bounce" off any needs of validation, basically by saying it's my problem, not his, as well.  He often says "I have already done my absolute best; if that's not good enough for you, then I don't know who can satisfy you."  It's impossible to explain to him that when certain things happen that is out of our control (i.e. completely unrelated to him), even if he treats me well, I may still feel upset!  So I stopped bothering because it ends up making me feel worse.

Thanks lenfan for your suggestion.  It is great  , and I hope to try it- but only for things not related to him, of course, like "I'm having a bad day, can you give me a hug?"

On a side note, I am teaching our child the concept of "somethings things just happen, and nobody is to blame".  Something happened today and then she said sorry to me.  It wasn't her fault, and I told her as much.  She then said, "Mummy, then you should say sorry to me."  I then told her it's not my fault as well, it's just one of those hiccups in life.  Then uBPDh heard us and chimed in, "Yes, somethings things just happen."  Oh well, how come he can teach a kid this and he doesn't learn it himself?

[Woodchuck]

I don't have any family members I could talk to.  With 2 small children, I don't have any time for friends.  uBPDh also doesn't like me talking about him with anybody, but that's a topic for another day.  So basically, even friends I've had for 20+ years don't know my situation.  Sometimes I feel a bit like I'm living a lie!  But thank God I found this site.  It's been saving my sanity for the past few years.  I come here for validation as well, to feel "normal" even when my life looks crazy in real life.  But besides here, I don't really get validation anywhere else.  I mean, I get validation at work, but that's different, because nobody at work can validate choices I make in my personal life. 

Chosen-
I am in a very similar boat.  My wife told our pastor that she did not want me talking to him or anyone else without her present.  Her belief is that all I do is 'slander' her.  In reality, I am seeking help from professional third parties and one of the main reasons I went to our pastor was because I was of the understanding that she respected him.  I too do not really get validation much of anywhere else aside from this site.  My job does not provide any validation.  I am able to get some validation through my hobby but it is not the same as validation from someone close to you.  It makes you feel quite lonely.  It is great that you found this site!  It has really helped me cope as well.

Just like Woodchuck, my H would "bounce" off any needs of validation, basically by saying it's my problem, not his, as well.  He often says "I have already done my absolute best; if that's not good enough for you, then I don't know who can satisfy you."  It's impossible to explain to him that when certain things happen that is out of our control (i.e. completely unrelated to him), even if he treats me well, I may still feel upset!  So I stopped bothering because it ends up making me feel worse.

My W won't say that she has done her best.  Her mentality is that anything that you get is 'earned' to include validation and I have not earned anything.  She has stated that she does not care what I feel or think.  I have tried communicate my needs to her and her response is that if my wants/needs conflict with hers, hers take priority.  I think your situation may be even more frustrating as he is actually saying that he is trying (whether he actually is or not may be up for debate/interpretation).

It is great that you are teaching your kids that sometimes things just happen.  That is just a fact of life.  We live in an imperfect world.  I can relate to your last statement as well about how your H can teach something but not learn it himself.  That happens quite often with many different things with my W and children.  It is very frustrating to watch.

Woodchuck

[Chosen]

My wife told our pastor that she did not want me talking to him or anyone else without her present.  Her belief is that all I do is 'slander' her.  In reality, I am seeking help from professional third parties and one of the main reasons I went to our pastor was because I was of the understanding that she respected him. 

Something extremely similar happened before, and I would say he is still angry with me over it.  He believes that talking with some other party is slandering him (and yes, he also believes I do nothing but drag him down, so other people will see him as a bad person etc.).  If he knows that I have talked about him to a friend, the friend will be forever "black"- and he will say some really, really mean stuff about her in front of me.  This is why I don't talk to anyone about him, or about my problems anymore.  I don't need another reason for him to say I'm backstabbing him.  It's not like talking to those people actually help anyway.

[Woodchuck]

Something extremely similar happened before, and I would say he is still angry with me over it.  He believes that talking with some other party is slandering him (and yes, he also believes I do nothing but drag him down, so other people will see him as a bad person etc.).  If he knows that I have talked about him to a friend, the friend will be forever "black"- and he will say some really, really mean stuff about her in front of me.  This is why I don't talk to anyone about him, or about my problems anymore.  I don't need another reason for him to say I'm backstabbing him.  It's not like talking to those people actually help anyway.

I am actually having a conversation right now about this situation.  I will share a bit of it below.  I am attempting to use SET and avoid JADE.  I would ask though if you think it is healthy to not talk to anyone about him?  If I didn't talk to anyone, I feel like I would implode and be unable to function.

Here is the conversation... .there are a few other things mixed in but the main point is 'slandering' her etc... .

Wife:
   Why do you not want a divorce?  You wanted one, so
What changed?
Me:
   I have never truly wanted a divorce.  I don’t know why you think something has changed.  Has it seemed like the only option in the past?  At times, yes and that is a very depressing place to be.
Wife:
   Your disrespectful unloving choices and selfishness make it bery much the only option at this point.
   I see no regret or desire to change.
Me:
   That is a very broad statement.  I am sorry you see things that way.  As I have said, if that is the route that you want to go, I will not try to stop you.
Wife:
   That is a lie which brings us to the other main issue.  You have always been a decietful person who can not be honest and truthful, but manipulates and lies to themself.
   You believe you are a good and loving spouse because you lie to yourself!
Me:
   I am sorry you feel that way.
Wife:
   No, it is not a feeling.
Me:
   Ok
Wife:
   Did you singlehanded bring is to the point we are at?  No, but if you were honest with yourself you would be regretful and sorroful not the proud and demanding jerk that you are.
   You did deal the death blow.
   You can claim the forgiveness of God but what you fail to do is the part where you make ammends!
Me:
   I understand that you are upset about many points of our relationship and I am sorry for any hurt that I have caused.  I hate seeing you hurt and upset.  I would like to understand how I can make amends in a way that speaks to your heart.
Wife:
   I do not believe you!
Me:
   Ok
Wife:
   While I am thinking on it.  When I smiled because your dog was leaving it was relief.  He made my life hell and wasted hundreds of dollars doing so!
Me:
   I understand that having him here was upsetting to you.
Wife:
   He made life hell for agrace as well but apparently she can’t remember that!
   You going alone and gossiping and slandaring me to
The pastor, and him participating in allowing it were a betrayal of trust. I have little to no respect for him and you I already had little for.
   I will be making decisions soon about those choices.
   Pretty much you have betrayed me in as many ways as a person can.  I see no way to build a relationship with someone so selfish and untrustworthy.
   Relationships are to be built on a foundation of trust and respect of which we have none!
Me:
   I agree that good relationships are built on mutual trust and respect and that is lacking greatly in our relationship.  I also understand that you are hurt very deeply and that I am the source of a lot of that hurt.  I am very sorry that you are hurting so much.
Wife:
   No you are not!  The only person that matters to you is you!
   You have not shown any remorse for your choices or your betrayal!
   I am sick of your lies and pacifiying statements!
   Someone wjo is remorseful would do something about what they have done!
   Someone who is remorseful stops stabbing the victim.
Me:
   I would like to understand what would you believe should be done.
Wife:
   I will NOT do that!
   A remorsful repenent person knows what they should donit and does it without being told!
   They do not continue their assault!
Me:
   I think that sometimes what someone views as something that shows remorse is interpreted very differently by the person they offended.  I understand that you feel that I am not remorseful.  I am not sure what I can do or not do to communicate to you that I am remorseful for hurting you.
Wife:
   Clearly all uou see is YOU!
Me:
   I understand that is how you see things.  I cannot change how you feel.  How you feel is how you feel and I accept that.
Wife:
   What have you done to hurt me?
Me:
   I am not sure what you are looking for me to say.  Are you looking for a list of every hurt over the last 18 years?
Wife:
   Sure
Me:
   I believe that I have written down and outlined every way that I have hurt you on more than one occasion.  I am not sure what good listing everything over and over again will do.  If there are hurts that have not been addressed, I am opening to listening to those and doing what I can to make amends.
Wife:
   And what have you done to make ammends?
Me:
   For what specifically?
Wife:
   Anything
Me:
   I think what is important is not what I have done but what would speak to you and show you that there is remorse and a desire to make amends.  I cannot claim that just because I have tried to make amends or show remorse that it has been communicated to you.  It obviously has not and it will only bring more hurt if I try to justify what I have done to show remorse or make amends.  It is very apparent that what I have tried has not worked successfully.  I need you to communicate to me what you need as that is what is important.
Wife:
   Ok how are you going to make amends for betraying my trust and slandering me to the pastor and God knows who else?
Me:
   That is where I need your input.  If I just try to do what I think would speak that to you, I am very likely to fail and hurt you further and I do not want to do that.

[Chosen]

Oh my... .this hits so close to home.  Because I have talked to other people about him in the past (e.g. saying to a Christian sister how I think he works himself too hard and he doesn't take time for himself), he has now labelled me a backstabber and slanderer.  He has also said repeatedly that he sees no desire in me to change, and that I will not change.  He also accused me of not making amends for all those things I have wronged him.  Currently, I don't see a way out of this cycle.  He brings it up from time to time.  Of course he throws it all in my face when he dysregulates, even though the subject of that particular dysregulation may not be related to this.  But he also mentions it during his "good times" (or maybe pwBPDs never have "good times"?).  He would say something, then offhandishly mention that I have repeatedly betrayed him.  The conversation would sound like a husband accusing a wife of sleeping with other men, and indeed to him what I "did" was probably just as bad. 

When, like you, I asked him what I can do to make him feel better, etc, he would always say, "JUST BE NICE."  Problem is, if I've already tried "being nice" and he doesn't accept it as nice, now what?  And this is the place where I'm totally stuck.

[Woodchuck]

Oh my... .this hits so close to home.  Because I have talked to other people about him in the past (e.g. saying to a Christian sister how I think he works himself too hard and he doesn't take time for himself), he has now labelled me a backstabber and slanderer.  He has also said repeatedly that he sees no desire in me to change, and that I will not change.  He also accused me of not making amends for all those things I have wronged him.  Currently, I don't see a way out of this cycle.  He brings it up from time to time.  Of course he throws it all in my face when he dysregulates, even though the subject of that particular dysregulation may not be related to this.  But he also mentions it during his "good times" (or maybe pwBPDs never have "good times"?).  He would say something, then offhandishly mention that I have repeatedly betrayed him.  The conversation would sound like a husband accusing a wife of sleeping with other men, and indeed to him what I "did" was probably just as bad. 

When, like you, I asked him what I can do to make him feel better, etc, he would always say, "JUST BE NICE."  Problem is, if I've already tried "being nice" and he doesn't accept it as nice, now what?  And this is the place where I'm totally stuck.

The fact of the matter is when I go to talk to someone, ie the paster, I make every attempt to be as open and honest as possible.  I do not just want a 'yes man', I want someone that will show me where I can change and be better.  I do not try to cover up my faults and shortcomings.  In fact, I make sure they are well known to whomever I may be seeking advice from. 
I guess at least he gives you some kind of something to do, whatever being nice is.  All I get is, 'I am not going to discuss that with you' or 'I have nothing to say' or 'you should know what to do'.  I can see how just hearing, 'just be nice' is very open for interpretation and seems like a guessing game or bait so you can be attacked again.  It is not a fun place to be.

WC

[Chosen]

It's quite obvious that my standard of "be nice" is different from his- I try to be nice, but he doesn't feel it.  So I'm either doing something wrong, or he doesn't want to feel it.  If I knew how to be nicer, I would, but sometimes it seems to me just like your "you should know what to do"... .

The way I see it, the pwBPDs don't really know exactly what we can do to make them feel better... .because their feelings is their responsibility, but they don't own up to it.  I admit I am partly to blame, but even if I'm 99% to blame, and he choose to not take up his 1%, there's just so much I can do to "make him feel better".