Showing emotions

[Chosen]

Do your pwBPDs react very negatively and take it personally when you show him/ her emotions?  Seems as though my uBPDh does not want to deal with any of my emotions, and no matter how I explain to him that my emotions are not caused by him (when it really aren't), he still doesn't want me to show my emotions.

Say I am really frustrated about a parenting aspect: our kid is in the Terrible Twos stage, and she says no to everything.  We have tried various ways including positive reinforcement, explaining, yelling, punishing... .no method seems to stand out as "helpful" (whether they are helpful or not depends on D's mood at the time, not the method).  So I got really frustrated and shed a few tears last night when D was eating (I couldn't get her to eat what she didn't want to), but I didn't ask for H's help.  He complained that I couldn't even finish such a small task (feeding D), then also went on to keep on asking me what's wrong (as in "what's wrong with you?").  He has often implied that he "should not" have to see my miserable face, and that he "doesn't deserve it". 

I already try not to show too much emotional ups and downs in front of him (not worth the trouble- if you're feeling bad, he's not going to comfort you but will scold you for not looking cheerful), but sometimes it's hard to control.  Any of you have this experience as well, and how do you deal with your emotions?  I admit that I do shed tears when I'm alone, and as result I often feel that nobody understands me, and when I'm down the first reaction I have will be to behave in a way that doesn't make him mad at me. 

How I wish he would say "you're doing great"; however he won't say it because he thinks I'm doing a terrible job.  That's ok he can speak his mind, but how I wish he would say "it's ok to feel sad", or "I know you tried your best", but instead every day it is "you're a terrible mother/ wife" and "you can't even accomplish such a simple task".  When I mention doing X is hard, or that our kids are not behaving properly and it's frustrating, he will never acknowledge me but say "just a regular day for me" (he is a full time dad by choice, and I go to work).  I feel that my existence is like a big inconvenience to him, that for him everything would work better if I'm out of the picture. 

And above all, I'm not supposed to feel upset or show any other negative emotion because he "already has to deal with so much", and "shouldn't have to deal with this (my negativity) as well".  Sometimes I shed tears but rarely in front of him; I don't want to have to hide just to cry!  Then insist I'm fine or just don't discuss my emotions altogether. 

I guess it's because he comes from a background which provides little validation, but he seems to want a lot of validation from me while being super invalidating most of the time.  I know we're with a pwBPD so we can't compare in that way, but I need an outlet for my emotions too!  Where do I get that?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Radcliff]

I am so sorry that you're not getting the support and validation that you need.  Raising a two year-old is hard!  Is this your first child?  Do you belong to any mother's groups so you can swap stories with other moms in the same boat?  That could be an excellent source of validation.  What does your support system look like outside your marriage?

RC

[Beren2016]

hi

i encounter similar with my girlfriend who has BPD, although from a different perspective.

because of her past abusive relationships and childhood she get very scared about making anybody angry or upset and feels like she has "done wrong". also if i am upset or depresed and talk to her she listens but always as a look of fear on her face.

she can explain to me that she does not know how to handle my emotions and does not know what to do with them or how she should react and this scares her. if i am upset, it also means she never feels like he has helped me even when she has.

 this could be how your husband is feeling underneath,  i dont know hoe he exhibits symptoms but, he could be dealing with so much of his own emotions he cant/doesnt know how to handle the emotions that you are feeling and the anger is his only way of expressing the emotions he is feeling

i dont know how he would react but would it help to have a conversation with him during a calm time and ask him about it and explain the sorts of things that he could do when you are upset or feeling emotions?

[Chosen]

Thanks to Radcliff and Beren2016 for replying.

Do you belong to any mother's groups so you can swap stories with other moms in the same boat?  That could be an excellent source of validation.  What does your support system look like outside your marriage?

I belong to mother's groups, and I could talk to them about child-rearing, but cannot touch on the topic of marriage/ my uBPDh.  He considers talking to other people about our marriage "a betrayal", and has called me a cheater simply because I have shared with a friend on our marriage.  I also have absolutely no support system, as there are no close family members available, and the "closest" family to me (aside from H) are already my in laws. 

i dont know how he would react but would it help to have a conversation with him during a calm time and ask him about it and explain the sorts of things that he could do when you are upset or feeling emotions?

From past experience... .it doesn't work on us, since if I talk about emotions, he would no longer be calm.  Also, if I were to sit him down on this kind of "chat" he would automatically consider me a nag.  Every emotion I feel is my own fault (because I'm not contented, I'm mean, I'm selfish... .) and he would just say "I have done my best.  If you're not happy about it there's nothing I can do."  or if I say I have some issues with him being x, he will say "you're also x" (and hence I have no right to say anything else, end of conversation.).  Even with things that are not directed at him, he takes it personally so it's impossible to express anything negative without it backfiring seriously on myself.  Maybe it's his way of reacting (subconsciously?) so I would not express anything negative again?  In any case, it doesn't matter what the reason is behind it.  I just need a way to cope with it!

I don't want to be that type of person who never shares anything with their close ones, but I'm heading in that direction simply because it's less of a letdown.  At least I don't have to get my hopes up, thinking somebody may listen to me, just to get smashed and attacked in return... .

[Radcliff]

That's great that you have a mom's group.  Even if you can't discuss BPD, having support on toddler issues is huge.  I've been told that we each need at least five sources of support.  The mom's group is one for you.  This board is another.  Have you thought about in-person support groups?  I've heard good things about NAMI groups.  If you have any alcoholics in your family (even a grandparent or cousin) you could do Al-anon.  Heck, you don't even need any alcoholics, the program is open to anyone, and many of the themes are in-line with BPD issues.  The advantage of in-person support groups is that you can jump right to the tough stuff without worrying that a particular friend will be overburdened, scared, or not handle your need for support well.  Do you see any local support groups in your area?

RC

[WileyCoyote]

not supposed to feel upset or show any other negative emotion

Oh chosen       This is not sustainable


I'll share my experience in this area.

My udwBPD has said to me... .
"I don't care about your feelings"  after I tried to explain to her (yes... .Explain ) that while I understood her hurt feelings when she lashed out at me it for whatever she was feeling it made me feel scared/unloved/hurt in general... .

In the past I might have gotten really upset and misrepresented what I felt/wanted.  But this time I just said.  "That makes me sad"  Nothing about her.  No details.  My T says keep it a simple as possible when they are dysregulating.

Then " oh poor you, you are so sad and scared of me"

in the past i would have tried to explain some more.  This time I said.
"You're right.  I am sad and scared."

I share that so that you can see, maybe you should listen to what he is telling you.  He is telling you that his problems are more important to him.  He is telling you he can't care about yours.   Shoot... .he can't deal with his own emotions, how can he deal with yours?

I am not saying this is right.  I am saying this is a reality that you might have to accept for now to be in this relationship.  What are your thoughts on that?

[once removed]

people with BPD traits tend to be poorly differentiated. they probably wouldnt put it this way, and its an over simplification, but someone elses feelings/needed can be perceived as a burden, a demand.

whenever i used to complain about something to my mom, like say i mentioned something was broken, shed respond as if i was expecting her to fix it or get me a new one. i wasnt. just making conversation. but she naturally took it that way.

so, sometimes changing your communication approach can help. not always, but its worth a try.

next time he asks you whats wrong? tell him what you need from him. for example, that youre having a hard time, and it would help you a great deal to hear "youre doing great", or "its okay to be sad", or "i know you tried your best".

its fairly likely that the first time you try this, he may say something like "well no one does that for me". he may feel inadequate or unable to give you that, and throw it back at you. it will probably sting and frustrate you, but try to let that go, and play the long game. try not to argue or restate your position, accept that in that moment he may be unable to give it to you. but you may have planted a seed.

water that seed. give the same thing youre asking for when you sense that he needs it. model that behavior. continue, over time, when you need support, to be assertive (but not aggressive) in asking for it. to state what you need/wish/would be nice to hear, clearly.

ideally, eventually, he will begin to step it up in return. it may even be that at first he just does it to make an uncomfortable situation go away (think how awkward it is at first for us when we learn and practice these communication tools!), thats okay, you can work with that, and keep watering the seed. if you get any sense that hes trying at all, or youre seeing improvement no matter how small, use lots of positive reinforcement.

[desperate.wife]

Hi Chosen,
I can't advise you with BPD, you got excellent suggestions from WileyCoyote and Once removed, but I can share my experience with my 2 years old (now she is 3). One nurse in Red Cross here suggested me reading this magic book. Yes magic. It saved my life  I did what it was written in the book, and it worked. In this book, French psychologist explains how kid’s mind works, and how communicate to avoid conflicts! Magic.

How did you say ?

We have tried various ways including positive reinforcement, explaining, yelling, punishing... .no method seems to stand out as "helpful" (whether they are helpful or not depends on D's mood at the time, not the method).

.

This book is called "I tried everything!"  By Isabelle Filliozat.

Few examples from the book. Avoid don't. Kid doesn't get don't. Don't cross the street! Kid hears: cross the street. So just say: stay next to me. You want some cupboard to stay closed? You say: this door has to be closed. And make sure to be in the kids eye level to say so. And repeat repeat, it may take weeks, months, but it works. You tell the kid what you want her to do, not what you don't.

This book is full of tips like that up till the age of 5. It is with illustrations of situations and it is very easy to read. I keep it  next to me all the time. It describes all situations and how kid’s sees it, and how it makes him/her feel. Lot of our reactions makes them feel worthless. We don't want that. Especially raising them with BPD partners, we have to make sure to give them good emotional background. We stay in control, but we give them choice. It works amazingly. They are learning to be themselves, individuals, not obeying robots.

I am not sure if this book exists in English but here are some good stuff from it summed up in English:  https://les6doigtsdelamain.com/i-tried-everything-jai-tout-essaye-isabelle-filliozat/

About the food, it is the same, no point in forcing 2 years old eating all, kid this knows if she is hungry and what she needs. I give choice and never make her eat anything. She eats by herself since she could hold a spoon. She plays with it? Good. She explores, she eats just that but not that? OK. Next time she will eat the other thing. Important to give healthy choices. Mine likes raw broccolis and other vegies, doesn't mean she wants them all the time. Forcing to eat it when she doesn't want, may only lead her to hate them all the time. It is important to offer different food so she gets all she needs, but it can be over day, week. It doesn't need to be very meal. Even French podiatrists say that, and they are fans of every meal being well balanced.

I don't know it all, I make tones of mistakes. But I find it easier to avoid conflicts than to deal with them. It is easier to learn about the ways my girl understands the world, than to feel hopeless and angry when she doesn't do what I want her to do. Now she is three and it is considered the most difficult year, but so far... .I cross my fingers. Yes she gets angry, yes she "doesn't hear" what I say to her, but understanding that it is not to annoy me, that it is all about her development of self, makes you want to help her to do that. And we learn every day. It is lot of work with ourselves too. It is not Terrible Twos stage; it is amazing exploring the world stage. Let's be positive.

   
DW

[WileyCoyote]

Great stuff from Desperate Wife and Onceremoved.  I would echo once removed and say this is THE most important thing. 

if you get any sense that hes trying at all, or youre seeing improvement no matter how small, use lots of positive reinforcement.

[Chosen]

Thanks for all the great suggestions.  I think that I have "accepted" that he isn't available to give me what I want to hear a lot of times.  That he is too overwhelmed by his own feelings already to care about mine.  It doesn't mean I don't have needs, but I guess I know better than to keep asking him to fulfill my emotional needs.  I will try more and more positive reinforcements... .I know it works, but sometimes it seems to awkward (like you're talking to a kid), so I know I don't express myself positively as much as I should.

In-person support groups are not an option for me now, much as I wished I could talk to somebody in person.  Besides and work and home (and weekend activities which would involve me + children/ the whole family), I don't get to go about on my own.  That's why bpdfamily is such a valuable resource to me. 

I would love to try to read the book desperate.wife recommended!  Will try to see if I can find the English version. 

Anyone had any luck using DEARMAN to ask for emotional support (or just not to be judged & punished by expressing emotions?)?  I haven't tried this tool because it seems to complicated to me.

[hopefulbutlost17]

Do your pwBPDs react very negatively and take it personally when you show him/ her emotions?  Seems as though my uBPDh does not want to deal with any of my emotions, and no matter how I explain to him that my emotions are not caused by him (when it really aren't), he still doesn't want me to show my emotions.

He has often implied that he "should not" have to see my miserable face, and that he "doesn't deserve it". 

I already try not to show too much emotional ups and downs in front of him (not worth the trouble- if you're feeling bad, he's not going to comfort you but will scold you for not looking cheerful), but sometimes it's hard to control.  Any of you have this experience as well, and how do you deal with your emotions?  I admit that I do shed tears when I'm alone, and as result I often feel that nobody understands me, and when I'm down the first reaction I have will be to behave in a way that doesn't make him mad at me. 

And above all, I'm not supposed to feel upset or show any other negative emotion because he "already has to deal with so much", and "shouldn't have to deal with this (my negativity) as well". 

I guess it's because he comes from a background which provides little validation, but he seems to want a lot of validation from me while being super invalidating most of the time. 

Hi Chosen,
Welcome... I'm fairly new here as well (about a month) and I have used some of the tools that a few have shared with me and the ones I have read as well.  I can relate to your showing of emotions and not being able to control them at times. 

My ex shows traits of BPD (not diagnosed). We had dinner the other night and having a conversation about her friends (we hadn't really talked in person for about two weeks after no contact).  Apparently my facial expressions changed and it "annoyed" her to where she stated "here we go with your face and mood changes whenever I talk about my friends."  Maybe my facial expressions did change and I feel I had every right to cause of what she was saying about her friends but I was also very tired from the night before (didn't get much sleep).  Once she said those words, I was triggered and yes, at that point my facial expressions changed. She kept going on about how "we can never go out to eat or have a decent conversation cause you always do this. It's so annoying. I don't understand why you do this" I admit I became defensive and told her to "get over it" and said "you roll your eyes and don't see me complaining. It makes me sad that you say those things about my facial expressions, maybe I'm tired cause I had a long day or didn't sleep the night before, this my face." After that, we began to argue a little more outside the restaurant but I ended up just walking away. She called and started saying "do you have to be so petty and drive away like that" Petty is her word of the year, apparently everything I do is petty.  I in turn responded "yes I do drive away like that because I want to and you have no say, yes I'm petty, is there anything else you'd like to call me before I go to sleep?" She hung up.  Only to send me messages such as "I will never understand why we cannot get along. goodnight. night ruined." I replied with a "goodnight" and was left on read. 

Just like you, it does bother me a lot that they cannot understand that we have feelings too.  I understand the stress she is under has cause her to disregulate a lot lately, almost everyday.  But last night, while she was discarding me I used some of the tools in communicating and it seemed to have calmed her down quicker than normal.  I believe separating our emotions and not taking their words to heart has helped me too. Yes, the words hurt and you have every right to cry or let it out however you need to.   I completely understand you.

Hope you're feeling better... .

[Radcliff]

Honestly, I felt like DEARMAN was pretty complicated, too.  But I don't want to discourage you from trying.  My situation was pretty intense, and I was not able to master basic things like boundaries.  If you feel like you've got a handle on some of the basics, definitely give DEARMAN a go.  In fact, if you'd be willing to, if you were to work it out with us here in advance, and let us know how things go, you'd be helping a lot of members.

The first thing is to pick the time to discuss it.  Not when you're upset about your needs not being met.  Not when he's stressed.  Do you think you might have a "calm time" in the next couple of weeks to give DEARMAN a go?

RC