Therapist wants me to come up with a plan

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Thank you both so much for sharing your stories. They make my blood run cold but I keep them in my head to pull out during the good times -- along with memories of H's rages. They help me remember to not get too complacent. To not forget the cycle and the possibility of escalation. They're a part of why I'm seeing a DV counselor and am working on a safety plan. So, thank you.

[Ozzie101]

Thank you both so much for sharing your stories. They make my blood run cold but I keep them in my head to pull out during the good times -- along with memories of H's rages. They help me remember to not get too complacent. To not forget the cycle and the possibility of escalation. They're a part of why I'm seeing a DV counselor and am working on a safety plan. So, thank you.

[Lalathegreat]

Thank you Cat, I’m so sorry that you know what it’s like to be a “that girl”... . 

[Cat Familiar]

You've been through so much, Lala, and you've emerged with such a good attitude.    I hope that your kindness and empathy is well appreciated in the future.

As is the case with so many who've experienced DV, my story began with criticism and insults, something I was very accustomed to hearing from my mother, so it felt "familial". Then the isolation tactics began and he monitored my whereabouts. Again, this didn't diverge from the family pattern.

Around that time, his anger manifested in breaking objects and throwing things at me. From there, it devolved to hitting me in the solar plexus, knocking the wind out of me so that I was struggling to breathe. Then he would drop me to the ground, sit on my abdomen and wrap his fingers around my neck.

I had the feeling that he was very conscious of what he was doing. When he left bruises on me, they weren't anywhere that would be visible in public, other than once he gave me a black eye.

The most difficult thing for me was feeling the deep shame of being in such a relationship. Of course I covered for him. Our friends never knew what went on behind closed doors, but certainly they saw clues in the way he was so disrespectful to me.

When we were out shopping together, if he couldn't find me in a store, he'd whistle, like you're whistling for a dog and I was supposed to drop everything and run to find him. It was so demeaning.

I've spoken very little about this episode in my life, but I've written on this forum quite extensively. I want everyone who is or has been in an abusive relationship to know that there is life afterwards and that things can be really good once you re-take your power and autonomy. In some cases, you'll need to leave your abuser. Other cases, perhaps with therapy for both partners, things can get better.

Please, know that it's not your fault. No one deserves to be treated poorly.

Cat

[Red5]

From there, it devolved to hitting me

Jesus Cat ; (

That is sobering to read your post above, as well all the the others posts here... .

As a Man, and a Father, and also two times now married... .why on God’s green earth would a “man” ever think this kind of behavior is even remotely acceptable... .uh’ NO it’s not!

Thank God that you got away from him!

What is the line we hear a lot from the unnamed YouTube channel... .

“if it hurts, it ain’t love folks”... .good grief ; (

There are so many “bad players” out there in the world... .

Sending good karma ya’lls way 

Stay safe!

Red5

[Lalathegreat]

Well I thank you Cat for being so open here, I believe that so many people are being helped by your story.

I can relate certainly to the “shame”, I was covering up for my ex long before it became physical. And once I began to see signs that he could be a physical threat - forget about it. I confided in NO ONE.  I knew that they wouldn’t understand why I didn’t just leave - *I* didn’t understand why I didn’t just leave! This forum was the closest I came to giving voice to the horror my life had become.

And I echo your sentiments. While the past 18 months have been tremendously difficult, the freedom that came from being forced to let go of my ex, his son, and the FOG that I carried surrounding by own codependent need to be there for him, has allowed me to experience a happiness that I feared I may never have in my life again.

There IS life after these relationships... .it does take time to heal.

[AskingWhy]

You've been through so much, Lala, and you've emerged with such a good attitude.    I hope that your kindness and empathy is well appreciated in the future.

As is the case with so many who've experienced DV, my story began with criticism and insults, something I was very accustomed to hearing from my mother, so it felt "familial". Then the isolation tactics began and he monitored my whereabouts. Again, this didn't diverge from the family pattern.

Around that time, his anger manifested in breaking objects and throwing things at me. From there, it devolved to hitting me in the solar plexus, knocking the wind out of me so that I was struggling to breathe. Then he would drop me to the ground, sit on my abdomen and wrap his fingers around my neck.

I had the feeling that he was very conscious of what he was doing. When he left bruises on me, they weren't anywhere that would be visible in public, other than once he gave me a black eye.

The most difficult thing for me was feeling the deep shame of being in such a relationship. Of course I covered for him. Our friends never knew what went on behind closed doors, but certainly they saw clues in the way he was so disrespectful to me.

When we were out shopping together, if he couldn't find me in a store, he'd whistle, like you're whistling for a dog and I was supposed to drop everything and run to find him. It was so demeaning.

I've spoken very little about this episode in my life, but I've written on this forum quite extensively. I want everyone who is or has been in an abusive relationship to know that there is life afterwards and that things can be really good once you re-take your power and autonomy. In some cases, you'll need to leave your abuser. Other cases, perhaps with therapy for both partners, things can get better.

Please, know that it's not your fault. No one deserves to be treated poorly.

Cat

Cat, thank you for sharing this candour, and for the horror you endured.  I want to thank you again for pointing me in the direction of the MOSAIC test.

Yes, abusers are said to be out of control, but they are not.  They are conscious of every object they break and every punch they throw.

This book is great one to learn about DV, and it's a guide for all the good DV counselors out there.  (Some counselors don't have a clue about DV; H and I saw a counselor and she was eating out of his hand.  BPDs and NPDs can be clever chameleons.)  It's called, "Why Does He Do That?  Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men."

https://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1545710648&sr=1-1&keywords=why+does+he+do+that

My H would rage at me when he blamed me for things that went wrong in his life.  He also projected his rage at his X W (who cheated on him, divorced him and took the children) at me.  In abusing me, he was working out his rage against her.  

[Cat Familiar]

Something I want everyone to be aware of in these relationships with difficult partners: The abuse often begins very gradually.

If they let us see the raging, violent side of them when first dating, probably 99% of us would never agree to another date.

How it often begins is that we make excuses for them. "He had a bad day at work." "Her childhood was terrible." "His first wife left him and took the kids." "She was abused by her previous boyfriend."

So we tolerate bad behavior that otherwise should send us running for the door. We tell ourselves, "I'm tough. I can handle it. I'm strong." But why should we tolerate it at all?

Over time we grow numb to it. And it gets worse. Insidiously. A slow drip drip drip of awfulness. Until it gets so bad that we cannot tolerate it anymore.

But what if we confronted each of those unkindnesses at the moment of origin, when they first began? What if we chose not to tolerate those small indignities? What then?

[Red5]

But what if we confronted each of those unkindnesses at the moment of origin, when they first began? What if we chose not to tolerate those small indignities? What then?

... .what if’ ?

I think that the relationship would have ended on the launch pad.

In my own experience... .I do remember push away rage on several occasions about two years into ‘dating’  ... .

But I dismissed it.

So fast forward to today... .you are correct Cat, the bad acting only increases incrementally over time until it culminates in one incident, which will be a ‘deal breaker’, and irrevocable in nature.

Take the behavior for what it is... .dysfunctional and abusive... .and possibly explosive,

And the fine line between verbal to actual physical abuse is very thin, and can be crossed in a split second... .

Be careful, be mindful... .have a plan to escape, before you or your most precious loved one gets hurt... .in my case it was my autistic Son.

Red5

[WitzEndWife]

Hi all,

I really appreciate this discussion and your stories, Lala and Cat. I know that not being scared of him is foolish, and I probably should be. The last time he raged out really badly was in September, where we were in the car and he drove erratically, and when he finally let me out of the car and I started walking away, he chased me and wouldn't let me go. The only reason he got away from me was a security guard at a library threatening to call the authorities. He didn't touch me, but he was following me, yelling.

Most of the time, I can de-escalate things, simply by shutting down, avoiding JADE-ing. I let him say mean things and yell, and send rage texts to my phone. However, I know that if I'm ever in another situation where he's raging out and I can't de-escalate things, I need to leave, immediately. And you're right, I should have a "go bag" stashed somewhere, either in the car or near the garage. I own the house, so my intent is to keep it and kick him out if it comes down to that, but for quick escapes, it's better to have things in order. I can go to a friend's house or to a hotel.

I don't want it to come down to a situation that I regret. I want to be happy. I want to feel safe.

There's already a lot of regret. I feel so dumb, like I wasted my only chance at being married and having kids. All because I didn't want to slow things down that were already in motion. Things started going sour a couple of months before he proposed and I still went through with it, hoping we could work things out. I spent our wedding party hoping he wouldn't get too drunk and embarrass me or himself. He was luckily on his best behavior that night.

If we divorce, I'll be in my 40s, suffering a 40-lb weight gain, and severe depression and anxiety. Not the most attractive. I probably will take a long time to be able to trust myself or a man again. The likelihood of me finding another person or being able to have children is slim. So, it's sad, and I guess I'm mourning that a bit.

But, then again, I put myself in this position and I deserve the consequences. Now, I just have to find my way out.

[Cat Familiar]

I know that not being scared of him is foolish, and I probably should be.

No need to be scared, just stay mindful.

The last time he raged out really badly was in September, where we were in the car and he drove erratically, and when he finally let me out of the car and I started walking away, he chased me and wouldn't let me go.

It's not safe for a raging pwBPD to be behind the wheel.

Most of the time, I can de-escalate things, simply by shutting down, avoiding JADE-ing. I let him say mean things and yell, and send rage texts to my phone. However, I know that if I'm ever in another situation where he's raging out and I can't de-escalate things, I need to leave, immediately. And you're right, I should have a "go bag" stashed somewhere, either in the car or near the garage. I own the house, so my intent is to keep it and kick him out if it comes down to that, but for quick escapes, it's better to have things in order. I can go to a friend's house or to a hotel.

Excellent. Do get your "go bag" ready.

There's already a lot of regret. I feel so dumb, like I wasted my only chance at being married and having kids. All because I didn't want to slow things down that were already in motion. Things started going sour a couple of months before he proposed and I still went through with it, hoping we could work things out.

Don't beat yourself up about this. You weren't dumb, just trusting and hopeful. We all have stories where we didn't pay attention to the red flags.  

If we divorce, I'll be in my 40s, suffering a 40-lb weight gain, and severe depression and anxiety. Not the most attractive. I probably will take a long time to be able to trust myself or a man again. The likelihood of me finding another person or being able to have children is slim. So, it's sad, and I guess I'm mourning that a bit.

Understandable that you feel some grief. However you might feel less anxious and depressed than you would imagine. I was never overweight, but I lost 18 pounds in a month when I initiated my divorce from my first husband. And I wasn't doing anything to try and lose weight. He'd always criticized me for not being runway model skinny--think Kate Moss when she was doing her "heroin chic" anorexic look--that was his ideal woman.

The irony was that during the entire length of our marriage, I had tried, and failed, to lose weight. Then when I threw in the towel, the weight just dropped without me doing anything. In retrospect, I think all the anxiety I was carrying around affected my metabolism somehow, because I no longer had that sense of anxiousness which was formerly my ambient state. And I never regained the weight, other than about 5 pounds over the following years. I did get a bit too skinny, but I felt free and almost weightless when I was finally out from under his control.

But, then again, I put myself in this position and I deserve the consequences. Now, I just have to find my way out.

Hey, that sounds like you beating yourself up. No. Don't do that. Hey, we all have regrets. You just trusted someone who didn't deserve your trust.

[AskingWhy]

If we divorce, I'll be in my 40s, suffering a 40-lb weight gain, and severe depression and anxiety. Not the most attractive. I probably will take a long time to be able to trust myself or a man again. The likelihood of me finding another person or being able to have children is slim. So, it's sad, and I guess I'm mourning that a bit.

But, then again, I put myself in this position and I deserve the consequences. Now, I just have to find my way out.

WEW, you are aware of your H's state of mind and why he does the things he does, and that is what is important.    

Don't beat yourself up for something you did not know at the time of your marriage.  You entered this marriage with honesty and an open heart.  I suspect you were, like many of us, deceived and even love bombed into thinking your H was the man of your dreams.  Heck, I was.  I was married in three months to a man I thought loved me and would put me above all else.

I have been in my marriage to my uBPD H for over 20 years.  (This started falling apart several months into the marriage:  rages, breaking things, threats of divorce.)  I know of some women who have been in for 30 years.  Time does not matter.  I also suffered from anxiety and depression, and still cope with bouts of anxiety.  I have the power, however, to overcome these now.  You will, too.

Awareness does wonders.  You now have the knowledge and the power to dictate your involvement in your marriage--or not--and on your own terms.

Once my H was driving me home from a medical procedure.  (I have disabilities.)  I was told not to drive.  On the way home, H (lacking empathy) launched into his dissatisfaction at my depression and inability to clean the house to his liking.  I asked him why he had no empathy for me at that moment in time.  (Stupid of me, yes, I know.)  H immediately launched into a rage driving on the way home from the hospital.

He stopped the car in the middle of traffic, raged at me for being unappreciative and being a b*tch, put the car in park--still in the middle of traffic--leaving me in the passenger seat while he walked off!  You can't make up things like this.  BPDs are capable or doing anything they want in order to feel like they are in power.  (H was raised in poverty by a uNPD F, and his X W is most likely uNPD.  All of his children are in the NPD and BPD spectrum with issues like drug addiction, homelessness, promiscuity and suicide attempts.)

Frantic the car would be rear ended by oncoming traffic, I scrambled to get out of the passenger side of the car so I could at least drive the car to the curb and park it.  Traffic was light, but an inattentive driver would have rear ended the car--with me in it.

As I was struggling to get out of the car, H reappeared from around the corner, raging, of course.  He asked me if I was ready to stop being a b*tch and abusing him.  I was too terrified from being abandoned in traffic to argue and in pain.  All I wanted to do was get home and rest.  All the way home--a good 20 minutes or so--H harangued me all the way home while I listened (not really, I was numb to it all) and was called every name in the book.  

That incident caused me to start seriously looking at my options to leave.  I sought a lawyer and found out my rights.  I was happy that he had no hold over me, and that I always had the option to leave on my own.  It was a wonderful feeling just to discover this.

H controlled me with abuse.  Over the many years of the marriage, H had effectively reduced my self esteem to nothing.  It took me 15 years to realize that the problem was not me; I had a horrible childhood due to a uBPD parent and had no idea of what a normal marriage looked like.

Again, you are empowered now with the knowledge of BPD and how it manifests, and how to control your reactions to you H.    

My impression now is that my H is a frightened coward who was abused by his uNPD X W.  As an NPD, she saw his weakness, eventually leaving him for another man (with whom she cheated; her lover was also married), taking all of the children with her.  H was such a coward he did not even seek legal counsel for the divorce, and X W got everything she wanted in the divorce, even dictating visitation with the children; she loved manipulating him with the attention of the children.  He also feels powerless thanks to his uNPD F during his childhood.   Moreover, H is a pushover to his adult children who use him as a blank check.

That said, it's hard to be frightened when I see H as a raging, pouty toddler in a grown man's body.  I have the choice to stay with him and take pity on him for his state of mind, or leave when I choose to no longer tolerate the dysregulations.  It's empowering and eye opening for me to be in this place of comfort with myself in my marriage.  Every time H threatens divorce, I laugh inside. Then if he actually devalues me and has me served, I won't be too shattered with a divorce. I know I will survive and move on.  At least I know what to look for in a new relationship.

I have taken my sense of self back.  It's a great feeling.  You will also get there, WEW.      

This is a good site on abusive relationships.  (It does not discuss PDs.)

https://www.abuseandrelationships.org/index.html

This link might be helpful.

https://www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Behaviors/basic_coercion.html



 

[WitzEndWife]

Taking myself back is important. I know I'm hard on myself, but it is sad to think about wasted time and how I ignored those red flags because we'd already made plans. It all seems so dumb now. And my therapist had warned me then, to make SURE I wanted to go through with it. I didn't listen to her.

But what's past is past. I guess I can move forward with what I know now. I know some people go a lot longer without figuring out the truth.

Thank you all for being supportive here. It's helpful to hear others' experiences and to know they know what this feels like. I hope I'll have the strength some day soon to do what I need to do. 

[Lalathegreat]

 

Ok, first things first - you are not dumb. I can see that you have many positive traits, and a few of them don’t happen to be serving you well in dealing with BPD. I relate. I have always led with my heart, I’ve always cared tremendously about my people and in helping when and where I can. I’ve always believed in forgiveness and compassion and 2nd chances. I have such a hard time walking away from a person in pain, I want always to believe and have hope in healing and growth. Yeah yeah - you probably already see where I’m going with this. Having  these qualities is absolutely not “bad” or “dumb”, generally  I am very proud of these qualities. But I am spending a lot of time in therapy understanding when and how to put boundaries on these things so that I don’t fall into the patterns I did with my ex BPD in the future.

I am not trying to push you one direction or another - I know that you are still in this relationship. I do feel compelled to reassure you, as another 40-something woman, that there is healing and growth and peace on the other side should you end up here.

Lala

[Cat Familiar]

Hi WEW,
I wonder if you've had time in the last few weeks during all the holiday commotion to come up with a plan?

Cat

[WitzEndWife]

Hi Cat - T and I are working on it. She wants me to first open the lines of communication - which I am avoidant of. I have been successfully doing so in the past couple of weeks. The communication is 100 percent for me, so that I don't feel in any way like I'm leaving any door unopened before ending things.

The good news is I've been able to talk with H and express to him that I will not tolerate any scary behavior in my home. I also told him that I was afraid of him when he broke through the door. He told me he would never hurt me, he just wanted to break the door down. I told him that, in many cases, this is how physically abusive relationships start. He again told me that he'd never actually wanted to hurt me. I don't know if that's 100 percent true, but I do believe that there is a large amount of restraint there.

I told him he needed to get control of his anger, that there was no excuse for it and that it wasn't normal. He agreed and said he was going to work on it. I did not ask him about therapy this time around, but he has been seeming more open to it for our relationship, so I told him to find a therapist. I'm hoping that, even if I have to go with him at first, maybe I can skootch him into 1:1 consoling. He seems to really benefit once he's in there, it's just getting him there.

Of course, now he's on an emotional upswing. He's buying a car and working as a livery driver. He enjoys driving and the flexibility it gives him, and it gets him out of the house, so that's good. Now that he's got some bills in his name, he has no choice but to work to pay things down. He has a lot of anxiety around that, but he also feels better about himself that he's working and taking responsibility like an adult, instead of moping around the house with no income.

I'm happy for the relief of the upswing. It helps me with my self care and figuring out my next move, so that I can think things through without being under duress. Next appt with my T is tomorrow.

[formflier]

How is he affording the car?

FF

[WitzEndWife]

How is he affording the car?

FF

He's financing it. He has good credit, since he's only been in the country a short time and has paid his card on time.

[Cat Familiar]

With your therapist's encouragement, it sounds like you're having those tough conversations and being able to express your needs. 

Perhaps the work driving will be a better fit for him than real estate. I hope that the car purchase (and insurance) is solely his responsibility. Having to work to pay his bills is a great step for him being more accountable and is also likely to boost his self esteem.

[WitzEndWife]

Hi Cat,

That was definitely what I was thinking when he made mention of it. Having something in his own name would certainly incentivize him to work, get out of the house, and be more productive. I also think he feels much better about himself with a nice, new (to him) car, and several avenues for money making with it (he's also an automotive YouTuber who has had success with generating views in the past, leading to ad money). Plus, he's not using my car, so he's no longer dependent on me.

Hopefully that can help keep him motivated to continue long term. I'd definitely feel better about everything (whether or not I decide to stay) if he had steady work.

[Cat Familiar]

I'd definitely feel better about everything (whether or not I decide to stay) if he had steady work.

Definitely. You care about him and wouldn't want to pull the rug out from under him, should you decide to leave. You're encouraging him to individuate from you and be able to successfully support himself.

[Only Human]

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