I was constantly given absurd ultimatums

[Sandb2015]

Mod note: This post was split from this discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=332969.0;topicseen#lastPost

I was constantly given absurd ultimatums, all very black and white.

I would hear things like your aren’t sorry enough and you need to show it more.  The issue was that there wouldn’t be forgiveness for the things my love thought I did wrong and I didn’t see it and I’d apologize anyway.

No forgiveness was always available and so were my apologies.

The black and white.  If you do this, if you do that exactly the way I say, things will be perfect and I will respect you and trust you. I would strive to do as I’m told wishing that would get me some respect and real trust. I still want it and it probably isn’t available.

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[Sandb2015]

Yuck, my love still talks about our real first date and I took her to a high end restaurant that I would frequent at times in my life and I had brought my ex to.  She said she is disgusted knowing I took her there and how disgusted she is and can't forget it, she sees it in dreams, she sees me there with my ex and now I'm going to blast you to kingdom come because I'm so disgusted with you and you can't change it and it's forever on my mind and creeps up on me and will continue to do so at any time.  I can and will justify all my cruelty and extremely hurtful words and actions because you screwed me up, how could you mess me up like this, look what you did to us and get the hell out, this is the consequence... .

Sometimes I could ignore and stay, other times, my love made it so bad (not physical) I had no choice like a scared, timid mouse.

This is one of countless situations with my love, I'm still protecting her and candy coating the severity of things... .I am so negative, I really think hope is a fool.

[once removed]

what sort of ultimatums?

[Sandb2015]

Cut off all ties to my past (actually her idea of my past) or get out.  Stop paying child support or get out, prove you were at work or get out, get a different job (I was already looking and discussing it with her) or get out.  Give me your email, bank, cell phone account log in or get out.  After searching and knowing there is nothing there to be suspicious about, she stated I could use my work phone or work email to have "conversations" with women from my past.

There was no satisfaction other than getting the owner of my company to have a team to search me on 20 different security camera to burn a dvd collage of me being there which she shrugged after watching.  I couldn't do it again, I had to lie to have it done saying I was in trouble which I felt bad about.

When her issues arose, she blamed me and made me responsible to make them go away, I love her and I tried to comply mostly in a loving way, sometimes not, I'm human.

[once removed]

at what point did these ultimatums occur. had the issues ever come up before?

[Sandb2015]

Only during episodes, it seemed to build up and during the times she felt entitled to blast away during an episode.

I would reassure her that there are no women, never will be.  As discussed, I am looking for another job close to home (now much further away) in our state.  She stated she sees me at a job I haven't gotten yet getting attention from a female/s and I will be weak and fall with one.  This is absurd as well as her dreams she sees as absolutely real and would wake me to confront me.If she only knew what my mind was, that was impossible.  It kept reoccurring and it was frustrating because it would open a floodgate of many other things and her cruelty and judgement would absolutely become unhinged.  It had a beginning without any defined end time, very high anxiety for me.

I know her ultimatums were were a way to limit her issues by putting them on me.  I knew the path and the location, I just couldn't figure out the method of travel.

[once removed]

ultimatums are often just trying to get our way out of desperation.

our partners lack the ability to regulate their emotions... .so they get desperate. throw in inherent fears and distrust of others, and a poor coping style, and youll get a lot of it.

having said that, when we learn to listen with empathy (https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy) there are often kernels of truth, or there are molehills being made into a mountain, but still a very real, possibly even solvable issue. it takes a lot of practice to navigate this.

[Sandb2015]

I would naturally take ultimatums as a form of control and I am so resistant to that especially when it's being imposed with anger, with some judgement thrown in.

Why can I see it so clearly now?  Why did it take me getting broken emotionally to see the other side, a different side.

I would try so poorly to impose my mind as though it's a better, righter mind and ask my love to change her perspective like popping open a beer?  Good or great intentions with the wrong perspective becomes miserable for a person that is struggling to deal with their issues.  I was wrong.

[once removed]

while saying "no" to an ultimatum isnt necessarily right or wrong, i agree about the general attitude. i dismissed a lot of ultimatums/demands and even requests too.

bottom line, its important to weigh that ultimatum/demand. what is it really about (it may be an overstated communication that our partners want more attention, for example, and listening with empathy can help us identify that) what part is reasonable or unreasonable? and at a certain point, we have to ask ourselves if we can meet it or not.

its not a black and white thing, but dismissing it altogether is just fighting with our partners for control.

[2020]

I too got bombarded will false allegations often regarding other women. I vehemently denied them, repeatedly. It did no good. What is best is to deny them just once. When they come up again, you need only to reflect back something validating. You might say, "Yes, I'd be upset if I thought you were secretly having relationships with other people". Nothing untrue about that, and you have found a common ground. If you try and use logic, reason, proof; it will only make you look more guilty. The more you defend yourself (which is the knee jerk reaction), the more you are trying to cover up something. Do not JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain). When you stop reacting to these triggers, they will stop using them because they simply won't work. Don't pour fuel on the fire.

[once removed]

a lot of us deal(t) with jealous partners... .2020 offers some good advice.

we have a workshop on "how to deal with a jealous partner" here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=78324.0

[Sandb2015]

I did defend as much as possible, it was more ego and control and I can see it clearly.  I had no idea, I was fighting using logic and reasoning and I remember it always had the opposite effect and I’d do it over again.  I do trust what I hear on this board and I do wish I had read this before.

[2020]

Again, don't live with regret. It is counterproductive. You did your best under the circumstances. You had no idea it might be BPD, and if you had I am sure you would have behaved differently. What you can do now is educate yourself how best to proceed. Learning the skills to listen, to empathise, to validate etc are usefull in all dealings with fellow humans. The pushing and pulling in these relationships might suggest the relationship could suddenly be on again for you. Prepare yourself. I know it is not easy. Use what little energy you have today, wisely.

[2020]

... .also, I did the same thing as you. I used Logic and Reason to try convince her of the truth. It didn't work. Their feelings are what they construct reality around. That is their truth.

I am an Illustrator by trade. I have a shoebox here of drawings of her and I. She is a robot woman, and I am a Scientist. She is often self destructing, hiding on a remote planet, being jetisoned from an airlock, Alien style. Sometimes we are on a factory starship and I am hitting a big red button marked "WARNING: Trained Service Personnel Only!" Above her head is a huge vat of molten metal. I am often pulling the robot apart and trying to fix her, soldering iron in hand, circuitry everywhere. And there are the Terminator drawings where I just can't get rid of her. There are a few nice ones. The 50's style rocket has crashed on a lava planet and the loyal robot is carrying the battered astronaut across a desert for miles.

Sometimes I wonder which one of us has this disorder. I am not entirely sure she is not a robot. It's the ON/OFF, the binary logic, the malfunctioning, the not quite human in some way. Her emotions are too extreme. If only I could replace a few capacitors... .

[Weejie]

If only I could replace a few capacitors... .

Sometimes resistors are more appropriate than capacitors.

[2020]

Resistance is useless!

[Weejie]

Resistance is useless!

On reflection, maybe a bridge rectifier!

[Steps31]

2020, has she seen those drawings?

[2020]

Yes she has seen those drawings and she knows I think she is a robot. For some unknown reason she doesn't mind the drawings. I do draw her with respect I suppose; always very beautiful, just with robot joints and chrome looking. She has even kept a lot of them which I have left for her and she won't give them back to me. There must be at least a hundred of these drawn over the past few years. I have used pictures to get things out since I was a kid. It is just something I have to do. She writes down her unhappiness and what troubles her and gives me letters. They are as deluded as the robot drawings I think.

[2020]

Sandb2015... .any change in your situation yet?

[Sandb2015]

I feel calmer, I am putting things in perspective, my aunt, a 20+ year Al-Anon speaker ask me if I could do this the rest of my life, my very slow response was yes.

I know I can’t jump into the way it was without having the perspective I’m slowly gaining.

I don’t have to be so sensitive, that sensitivity leads to resistance in the form of defensiveness and it becomes about me and how you are making me feel.

Pulling away to see myself apart from her is an absolute must.  I can love her unconditionally as a separate individual and be there for her, I don’t have to be so empathetic that it is codependency.  I can be by her side and find a realistic way.

If and I hope we join again, we must go to counseling together, I can’t just jump rope back in, we both need help regardless of my motivation, determination.

[Sandb2015]

Tony Robbins said that as a couple seeks couples therapy, it's too late.  I do appreciate any comments, guidance, it all has something we can learn from, I just wonder why that comment does ring a bell.

We have discussed it in the past and she was 80% resistant, between financial issues, our issues and mostly her blaming me for every single problem plus devaluation, she didn't see her role, just mine in the problems.

That was isolated and I did'nt choose the right time when we were having a great, loving day.

I'm hoping I can get that chance again and I can see that the window to discuss it.

My approach would be not that she has a problem, but it would be good for us and perhaps from the us, we can learn more about ourselves and be able to share and build a better relationship.


Am I far off track?

[once removed]

no. there are many couples that have gotten their act together with couples counseling/therapy. there are many couples that do it in early stages of the relationship when times are good, or they do it when a child is on the way or born, or... .

[Sandb2015]

I didn't always see counseling as a means to growth.  I was arrogant for most of my life regarding it in a way that thought people were to weak to deal with stuff themselves.

Now I pray we can do it... .

[2020]

I was insisting again that we try couples therapy. Then she had the big breakdown/breakup? I saw this discussion on this topic yesterday:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=117485.0

[Sandb2015]

I read it, it's not promising, but realistic.  I won't be negative by choice and think that with the right MC or T, the right mind set, stars aligning and all that, there is a way.

I'm just going through a positive stage right now, I read your other post and I feel your relief and want it so badly for myself.

[Harri]

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