Need to get something off my chest (part 2)

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

This post is a follow up on a discussion that took place here about a year ago... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=319853.0

I never meant to go so long without following up.  I’ve spent the past year trying to muster up the courage to post this, but its hard to reopen old wounds.  I want to better convey myself, and in hindsight this should have been my opening post in that other thread.  So here's me trying again.  The frustration that I expressed came from the fact that several members during my time here wanted to fit my story into a “mold,” and continued to do so despite my insistence that their adopted story is not mine.  

These are the facts that I have shared regarding my story…

1)   I was a teacher who had an affair with a student.
2)   The husband called the school.
3)   I was fired.
4)   I want to contact the husband and tell him about the affair.

Those are the facts, but people (unintentionally) take these facts and use them to construct an entirely different story, one that I can’t identify with.  First, they assume a causal connection between facts 1 and 2.  This is wrong.  The husband, nor the school, had any knowledge of an affair.  What the husband did was provide evidence to my employers of a communication between she and I that occurred outside of school.  This was the only nature of contact that was known by the school or the husband.  There was no knowledge of physical intimacy.  As far as the husband was concerned, this entire issue was one where another guy was after his wife.

Secondly, people assume that I blame the husband for my job loss, hence me wanting to call him with the truth.  They see it as an act of revenge, despite my repeated attempts at communicating otherwise.  If there is any part of me that is angry with him, and there is, it is due to him trying to write his own version of events, and in the process deciding for me what my intentions were.  I clearly failed at communicating with him, and I feel the need to redeem myself.  I mentioned on a few occasions here that I have high-functioning autism.  While I understand that there are many types of communication, verbal communication is the only type I have mastered, so you can imagine my frustration when I apparently fail at that too.  For those of you who do not have experience with people on the autism spectrum, I would like to share something with you about myself that I hope will give you a better window into my personality.  I have a colleague who has a tendency to be sarcastic, and often says he is doing “fantastic” when he is actually doing terrible.  I don’t speak that way.  If I am having a terrible day, I simply say that I am having a terrible day.  I’ve never had an interest in “double talk.”  I say exactly what I’m thinking.  And yet somehow, I still can’t communicate with anyone.  I couldn’t communicate my feelings to my ex.  Just bluntly voicing them evidently wasn’t enough.  I couldn’t communicate anything to the husband either.  I’m always left feeling like a mime in a box, and I can’t communicate anything to the outside world, and this time I failed so badly that it makes me sick.  I lost so much, but never got to actually communicate with anyone.  Do you know how frustrating that is?  At least if I had found my voice, everything else would have been so much easier to cope with.  Instead this story ended with him still believing that I was after his wife, and that his actions were necessary.  This means I failed.  He accused me of “playing games” with her.  I don’t have the people skills to “play games!”  It felt like the world was casting me in a role that wasn’t mine.  I came here wanting someone, anyone, to understand.  Instead I got comments like these…

When I read through your initial post I got the clear impression that you chose to continue your affair even after he became aware that something was happening between you and his wife. This just feels an attempt to rationalise your desire to hurt or punish him and destroy what's left of their marriage; an objective you've stated in other posts.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=299446.msg12811416#msg12811416

Granted, the member who made this comment did apologize later for making assumptions about my story, but why did he have to rely on his “clear impressions” and “feelings” in the first place when I was explicitly stating the specifics of my situation?
  
The real irony is that I was very open and honest during my time here, but some members were so busy trying to pick up on “vibes” and “feelings” and “impressions” that not a lot of attention was paid to my words, and it left me feeling like I wasn’t being heard.  Was my being honest in what I was typing really such a farfetched idea?

You lost your job because you had an affair with a student. Everything else is just static.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=300490.0;all

Ironically, what this member has decided to call static is what brought me here.  It wasn’t static to me.  Its what I needed to address.
  

You feel cheated that the gamble didn't pay off.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=300490.0;all

No. Not my issue at all.  The relationship didn’t have to be lasting for it to be meaningful to me.  The above statement was made to me after I typed paragraph after paragraph detailing exactly why I was angry, but it evidently still wasn’t enough. I was angry because I wanted my space, and she wasn’t letting me have it.  All I wanted was closure.  Before I met her, I never knew that I was capable of achieving that level of closeness with another person, and there was a time when I was still capable of viewing my experience with her as meaningful, something that I could carry with me throughout my life and draw strength from, but she just kept asking more and more from me while she was with him, seemingly oblivious to what that was doing to me.  To make it even worse, I later discovered that she had lied to me about the status of her relationship with her husband when we were involved.  She was supposed to end things with me if and when she reconciled with him.  I couldn’t “share” her, and she was supposed to tell me if things ever came to that.  I thought I made it clear to her how important that was to me, but I guess she never heard me either.  Then the husband gets to conveniently point the finger at me and accuse me of pursuing his wife.  The truth is that I didn’t have to do any “pursuing” at all. It’s a hard thing to suffer so much mischaracterization while not even attempting to show who I really am and what the reality was. Each and every one of you who are reading this would have done or said something if you were in that situation. You would have reacted in some visible way, because that is the normal, human thing to do.  But not me.  I couldn’t.  I just froze like I always do, and I don’t know if I can forgive myself this time.  Many people here love to remind me that it was my fault that I lost my job, and it’s true, but that simple fact in no way addresses the issues (the static) that I just outlined.  
    
I'm not proud of what I did, but there is one thing in my story that I'm very proud of, and it felt like people here tried to take that away from me.  I decided that I wasn’t going to tolerate dishonesty, and I ended contact with her.  I want a relationship, not a piece of territory that I have to fight for.  Too bad he didn’t know that.  I had no desire to play those games with the husband.  I decided that he could have her because I deserved better.  So I hope you can imagine what it was like for me to see some members here try to write a whole other story where I’m the guy who’s mad because he didn’t get the girl!  They ascribed to me the same animalistic mentality that I saw in the husband, the same mentality that I’ve been trying to understand ever sense.  I never understood why I’m supposed to fight for someone who I know has been dishonest with me, and I can’t help but be insulted that the husband thought I could be so shallow and think so little of myself as to do that.  That’s why I was angry.  Ironically, in trying to enlighten me to the “real” source of my anger, some members were creating the very conditions that bought me here in the first place.    
 

What you have written over the months has clearly shown me that you are completely stuck on the fact that he took her away from you and you want to make him pay for it.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=300490.0;all

Again, this member wrote his own story.  I had other reasons for being angry, but these members settled for the most simplest and obvious one because it required the least amount of thinking and understanding on their part.   Given my actions, I certainly cannot be accused of being angry over losing her to him.  The only thing I was asking from her was space. The whole reason she and I stopped talking is because I ended contact.  I’ve stated this many times.  Why is it so hard for people to take what I say at face value?  I certainly have no problem taking what others say at face value.   I hope I’m not coming off as angry, and I’m not trying to make this personal, but it’s just so frustrating when this happens, and I felt like I needed to say something.  I’ve been brutally honest about my history and about the source of my anger.  So what is it that is making people doubt me?  Explicitly stating things is the only way I know how to communicate, and when that fails, what’s left?  Resignation?  Do I just allow others to rewrite my history, feelings, and motivations?  Or do I keep trying to communicate myself?  This is what I’ve been stuck on for a very long time.  Not about revenge over a job loss, not about feeling spurned by an ex-lover, or any of the other things that people here have worked hard to convince me of.  These members may have had the best of intentions, but they were unknowingly writing their own scripts of what happened to me and what I was going through, and anything that I had to say that didn’t conform with their own scripts was labeled “static” and “rationalization.”  Why did they feel so comfortable doing that?  Some members here spent a ridiculous amount of time and energy telling me why I feel this way or that when I already knew why I felt the way that I did!  As in the case with my ex and her husband, it felt like I was yelling and no one was hearing me.    

[Nuitari]

This post is a follow up on a discussion that took place here about a year ago... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=319853.0

I never meant to go so long without following up.  I’ve spent the past year trying to muster up the courage to post this, but its hard to reopen old wounds.  I want to better convey myself, and in hindsight this should have been my opening post in that other thread.  So here's me trying again.  The frustration that I expressed came from the fact that several members during my time here wanted to fit my story into a “mold,” and continued to do so despite my insistence that their adopted story is not mine.  

These are the facts that I have shared regarding my story…

1)   I was a teacher who had an affair with a student.
2)   The husband called the school.
3)   I was fired.
4)   I want to contact the husband and tell him about the affair.

Those are the facts, but people (unintentionally) take these facts and use them to construct an entirely different story, one that I can’t identify with.  First, they assume a causal connection between facts 1 and 2.  This is wrong.  The husband, nor the school, had any knowledge of an affair.  What the husband did was provide evidence to my employers of a communication between she and I that occurred outside of school.  This was the only nature of contact that was known by the school or the husband.  There was no knowledge of physical intimacy.  As far as the husband was concerned, this entire issue was one where another guy was after his wife.

Secondly, people assume that I blame the husband for my job loss, hence me wanting to call him with the truth.  They see it as an act of revenge, despite my repeated attempts at communicating otherwise.  If there is any part of me that is angry with him, and there is, it is due to him trying to write his own version of events, and in the process deciding for me what my intentions were.  I clearly failed at communicating with him, and I feel the need to redeem myself.  I mentioned on a few occasions here that I have high-functioning autism.  While I understand that there are many types of communication, verbal communication is the only type I have mastered, so you can imagine my frustration when I apparently fail at that too.  For those of you who do not have experience with people on the autism spectrum, I would like to share something with you about myself that I hope will give you a better window into my personality.  I have a colleague who has a tendency to be sarcastic, and often says he is doing “fantastic” when he is actually doing terrible.  I don’t speak that way.  If I am having a terrible day, I simply say that I am having a terrible day.  I’ve never had an interest in “double talk.”  I say exactly what I’m thinking.  And yet somehow, I still can’t communicate with anyone.  I couldn’t communicate my feelings to my ex.  Just bluntly voicing them evidently wasn’t enough.  I couldn’t communicate anything to the husband either.  I’m always left feeling like a mime in a box, and I can’t communicate anything to the outside world, and this time I failed so badly that it makes me sick.  I lost so much, but never got to actually communicate with anyone.  Do you know how frustrating that is?  At least if I had found my voice, everything else would have been so much easier to cope with.  Instead this story ended with him still believing that I was after his wife, and that his actions were necessary.  This means I failed.  He accused me of “playing games” with her.  I don’t have the people skills to “play games!”  It felt like the world was casting me in a role that wasn’t mine.  I came here wanting someone, anyone, to understand.  Instead I got comments like these…

When I read through your initial post I got the clear impression that you chose to continue your affair even after he became aware that something was happening between you and his wife. This just feels an attempt to rationalise your desire to hurt or punish him and destroy what's left of their marriage; an objective you've stated in other posts.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=299446.msg12811416#msg12811416

Granted, the member who made this comment did apologize later for making assumptions about my story, but why did he have to rely on his “clear impressions” and “feelings” in the first place when I was explicitly stating the specifics of my situation?
  
The real irony is that I was very open and honest during my time here, but some members were so busy trying to pick up on “vibes” and “feelings” and “impressions” that not a lot of attention was paid to my words, and it left me feeling like I wasn’t being heard.  Was my being honest in what I was typing really such a farfetched idea?

You lost your job because you had an affair with a student. Everything else is just static.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=300490.0;all

Ironically, what this member has decided to call static is what brought me here.  It wasn’t static to me.  Its what I needed to address.
  

You feel cheated that the gamble didn't pay off.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=300490.0;all

No. Not my issue at all.  The relationship didn’t have to be lasting for it to be meaningful to me.  The above statement was made to me after I typed paragraph after paragraph detailing exactly why I was angry, but it evidently still wasn’t enough. I was angry because I wanted my space, and she wasn’t letting me have it.  All I wanted was closure.  Before I met her, I never knew that I was capable of achieving that level of closeness with another person, and there was a time when I was still capable of viewing my experience with her as meaningful, something that I could carry with me throughout my life and draw strength from, but she just kept asking more and more from me while she was with him, seemingly oblivious to what that was doing to me.  To make it even worse, I later discovered that she had lied to me about the status of her relationship with her husband when we were involved.  She was supposed to end things with me if and when she reconciled with him.  I couldn’t “share” her, and she was supposed to tell me if things ever came to that.  I thought I made it clear to her how important that was to me, but I guess she never heard me either.  Then the husband gets to conveniently point the finger at me and accuse me of pursuing his wife.  The truth is that I didn’t have to do any “pursuing” at all. It’s a hard thing to suffer so much mischaracterization while not even attempting to show who I really am and what the reality was. Each and every one of you who are reading this would have done or said something if you were in that situation. You would have reacted in some visible way, because that is the normal, human thing to do.  But not me.  I couldn’t.  I just froze like I always do, and I don’t know if I can forgive myself this time.  Many people here love to remind me that it was my fault that I lost my job, and it’s true, but that simple fact in no way addresses the issues (the static) that I just outlined.  
    
I'm not proud of what I did, but there is one thing in my story that I'm very proud of, and it felt like people here tried to take that away from me.  I decided that I wasn’t going to tolerate dishonesty, and I ended contact with her.  I want a relationship, not a piece of territory that I have to fight for.  Too bad he didn’t know that.  I had no desire to play those games with the husband.  I decided that he could have her because I deserved better.  So I hope you can imagine what it was like for me to see some members here try to write a whole other story where I’m the guy who’s mad because he didn’t get the girl!  They ascribed to me the same animalistic mentality that I saw in the husband, the same mentality that I’ve been trying to understand ever sense.  I never understood why I’m supposed to fight for someone who I know has been dishonest with me, and I can’t help but be insulted that the husband thought I could be so shallow and think so little of myself as to do that.  That’s why I was angry.  Ironically, in trying to enlighten me to the “real” source of my anger, some members were creating the very conditions that bought me here in the first place.    
 

What you have written over the months has clearly shown me that you are completely stuck on the fact that he took her away from you and you want to make him pay for it.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=300490.0;all

Again, this member wrote his own story.  I had other reasons for being angry, but these members settled for the most simplest and obvious one because it required the least amount of thinking and understanding on their part.   Given my actions, I certainly cannot be accused of being angry over losing her to him.  The only thing I was asking from her was space. The whole reason she and I stopped talking is because I ended contact.  I’ve stated this many times.  Why is it so hard for people to take what I say at face value?  I certainly have no problem taking what others say at face value.   I hope I’m not coming off as angry, and I’m not trying to make this personal, but it’s just so frustrating when this happens, and I felt like I needed to say something.  I’ve been brutally honest about my history and about the source of my anger.  So what is it that is making people doubt me?  Explicitly stating things is the only way I know how to communicate, and when that fails, what’s left?  Resignation?  Do I just allow others to rewrite my history, feelings, and motivations?  Or do I keep trying to communicate myself?  This is what I’ve been stuck on for a very long time.  Not about revenge over a job loss, not about feeling spurned by an ex-lover, or any of the other things that people here have worked hard to convince me of.  These members may have had the best of intentions, but they were unknowingly writing their own scripts of what happened to me and what I was going through, and anything that I had to say that didn’t conform with their own scripts was labeled “static” and “rationalization.”  Why did they feel so comfortable doing that?  Some members here spent a ridiculous amount of time and energy telling me why I feel this way or that when I already knew why I felt the way that I did!  As in the case with my ex and her husband, it felt like I was yelling and no one was hearing me.    

[itsmeSnap]

Hey nuitari

What a story you have.

So, the affair happened, you cut contact with her after you found out the deception on her part, people accuse you of "playing games", you feel like you're not being heard, did I get that right?.

I'm again, assuming here:

In terms of communicating a need, stating the facts is sometimes not enough, you have to ask for it. When people see facts and no request, they assume what you want (according to their own biases) and most likely miss the mark.

People with BPD also have trouble communicating their needs and considering those of others for various reasons. This miscommunication causes confusion because everyone assumes their own narrative like you experienced, and its not the "same narrative" as was intended.

Also, and this is actually I think, more relevant to your story than your experience on the board: people do what's in their best interest.

Ignoring your "request" to come straight about her relationship with her husband was not in her best interest, as she would lose you "faster" in the process, and it sounds like she didn't want that, so she lied to you, to her husband. If you take what the husband said at face value, you might be overlooking the fact that his information which probably came from a lie by the wife is what he understood "from you", like you were the only source of knowledge he had on the issue.

He is not listening to you because he doesn't trust your story, he trusted the wife's, and it was not the " real story", ergo, he assumes you're "playing games", that you're the one misconstruing the truth (the "truth" being what the wife told him).

So much assuming on my part, hope you don't take it personal, I'm assuming mostly about the husband

One thing that's not clear to me about your intentions is what you hope to accomplish by telling the husband about the affair. You mentioned " redeeming yourself ", but what does that mean?

Hope to hear from you again, I could use a good exercises in communication and understanding other people (I'm selfish ok don't judge me ). If I can help you in the process then all the better right?
 

[Nuitari]

Thank you for your reply itsmesnap.

One thing that's not clear to me about your intentions is what you hope to accomplish by telling the husband about the affair. You mentioned " redeeming yourself ", but what does that mean?

For better or worse, anyone having lived through that experience would have had some kind of emotional reaction to it, right?  I never did, and I feel like I need to.  I tell people how I feel.  I don't show them.  I don't know how.  But I do know that it is a big part of communication.  She seemed very aware of how her actions hurt her husband, but not me.  Its no wonder because I could never communicate that properly. I couldn't stop thinking about the injustice of it all.  I had this vision in my head of the two of them walking away into the sunset together never looking back while my life was in shambles, all because of my own shortcomings.  I wanted to do what any normal person would have done in my case.  Exposing her to the husband was the most obvious way of doing that.


Having said that, I do want to point out that I've come a long way sense first coming here.  I've been reluctant to come back here and resurrect all this because part of me has been afraid of starting the cycle all over again (I have a hard time letting things go, even small things, so you can imagine the devastating effects something like this has on me.)  I still have the compulsion every now and then to contact her husband and tell him everything, but only occasionally.  I'm seeing things so much clearly now.  I can't be the only guy she's cheated with.  Looking back at her behavior, its clear that she didn't give a damn about her husband, or me for that matter.  That marriage is doomed to failure.  So why waist time throwing water on someone who's already on a sinking ship?  I still harbor a lot of hatred for my ex, and I still dwell on those events more than I should, but I can't deny that I am in a much better place.  I have rebuilt my life, and some days I think I'm actually happy!  Now I'm primarily stuck on what happened during my time here on this forum.  A couple of members tried really hard to convince me that I was in denial about my true feelings.  I can honestly say I wasn't.  Here I am again, years later, and with a much clearer perspective, reiterating that I wasn't.  I know what's in my head better than a stranger on a message board.  So why couldn't they give me the benefit of the doubt?  I wanted to be heard, not told by someone else how I feel.  This has been eating away at me for some time, and I finally had to address it.  

[Nuitari]

It might help to see where I'm coming from if I share something that happened to me when I was young.  When I was in seventh grade, we had a guess speaker at my school, a recovering drug addict who came to tell us about the dangers of drug abuse, and how it ruined his life.  In order to fully appreciate the absurdity of this story, you should know that I’ve never done drugs.  I’ve never even smoked a cigarette or drank an alcoholic beverage.  At any rate, instead of having gem class that day, my class set around in a semi-circle on the gem floor and listened as the speaker stood in front of us and told of his experiences with drug abuse.  At one point he said something like “I wasn’t much older than you guys when I began to abuse drugs.  Some of you may already be dealing with this same problem.”  A friend of mine decided to be funny.  He pointed at me and said “Nuitari does drugs all the time.”  Everyone turned and looked at me.  The guest speaker said “I understand what you’re going through.  I’ve been there,” to which I replied “he’s joking.  I don’t do drugs.”  He responded with something like “I’m not here to judge.  I know how hard it is, and I want you to know that you’re not alone.”  I reiterated that I didn’t have a drug problem.  He then told me that the first step in solving a problem is admitting that I have one.  I hope you can understand how frustrated I felt.  I’m telling this story because it felt like 99% of the exchanges I had here went like that.  I felt like I wasn’t being heard, and I wasn’t.  Some members invented their own story of what happened to me, and would even defend it against my clarifications.  As a result, I was painted into a corner. How could I reply to their posts?  I certainly couldn’t agree with their assessment of things, because they were wrong. But on the other hand, I couldn’t disagree without it being seen as denial. These people made it impossible to have a real, honest discussion, and that’s what I needed.  Its why I came here.  I want to share a couple of specific examples... .

Perhaps static is the wrong word but I think a lot of this seems peripheral.  And we're talking about you blaming your exes husband for losing your job.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=300490.0;all

That’s not what we were talking about at all.  I said it many times.  This member couldn’t understand my real problem so he insisted on trying to make it about something he could understand, as if this were about him.  Just because something seems peripheral doesn’t make it nonsense.  The same member later said this…

You have said before that you needed their marriage to end. Why?
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=302462.30

This is something I went into great detail in explaining many times.  I answered the question again, but I was confused about why he was still asking me this.  Looking back, I suspect that he wasn’t asking me this out of a genuine curiosity to know the answer.  Rather, he was asking me this question in an attempt to lead me to some conclusion that he’d already decided upon.  He didn't want to have any real conversation with me.  I know he was trying to help in his own way, but he couldn't do that if every post of his are based on false premises.  

[Sunfl0wer]

This is just my perspective... .
If I am to post here or anywhere... .
I am opening myself up to have others share their idea and opinions and how they relate to the words I have written.  It is inherint in this format of communication for me to hear different perspectives, different ways of thinking.

They way I find best to use any forums is to take what works, what I feel I need... .leave what I don’t feel useful.

Sounds like you are wanting to spend more time with... .
What wasn’t useful.
Good luck with that approach... .(written in jovial sarcasm tone)
My guess is... .
It is going to lead to more “not useful” stuff... .
But if history repeats itself... .
That will be a lesson for you to learn the hard way.
I do wish you well.

[Nuitari]

And what about being heard, Sunflower?  Is there no value in that?  I do appreciate your and itsmesnap's posts, but even if this thread had gotten no replies, that would have been ok. This was about me saying something I needed to say, something that I should have said a long time ago, so that I can finally leave it behind.

[Nuitari]

It is inherint in this format of communication for me to hear different perspectives, different ways of thinking.

I don't think this has anything to do with different perspectives.  It was a communication problem.  If you read those older threads, you will see that there were some members who kept explaining to me why it was my fault that I lost my job.  Of course I know that it was my fault.  I never tried to argue otherwise.  They didn't understand the real issue.  I tried to go deeper into the source of my anger and frustration, only to have them reiterate that it was my fault I lost my job.  Clearly there was a communication problem somewhere, and now I find myself wondering what I could and should have said, and even though its ancient history now, I still feel the need to say it.

[itsmeSnap]

And what about being heard, Sunflower?  Is there no value in that?

(I'm not SunFlower  , just wanted to chime in on the broader question)

There is value, its just that you can't "make" people hear you. You can express yourself, but if they don't want to hear you, to really listen, they wont, and there's not much you can do about it other than just express yourself.

I know, sounds terrible, like speaking into the void, that's why we seek people who truly listen, that really try to understand, and there's not that many out there.

anyone having lived through that experience would have had some kind of emotional reaction to it, right?  I never did, and I feel like I need to

Expectations play a role here, maybe its just not "you" to have a big emotional outburst like an opera drama.

I wanted to do what any normal person would have done in my case.  Exposing her to the husband was the most obvious way of doing that.

But then you'd be playing a script and not doing what you truly want to do won't you? Doing the normal thing, still doesn't explain why? why do what others do?

I hope you can understand how frustrated I felt.

I got questioned by the dean at college on whether I plagiarized my first semester project. He didn't believe me, kept going on about "oh with the internet its so easy, the project has things we didn't cover, we'll be understanding if you just tell the truth." I was like, dude, the software has a tutorial that covers every single function I used, no internet needed, I made the thing.

And he was still like "I'll tell you what, just tell me where you got it and we'll drop it entirely", I was like did you not hear a word I just said, I MADE THE THING  .

Yeah, sucks, I still remember it some ten years later, it leaves a mark.

They didn't understand the real issue.  I tried to go deeper into the source of my anger and frustration, only to have them reiterate that it was my fault I lost my job.  Clearly there was a communication problem somewhere, and now I find myself wondering what I could and should have said, and even though its ancient history now, I still feel the need to say it.

Since the last thread was a while ago and its a continuation of another thread (I looked into it but couldn't really follow what the conversation was, there's some background I'm missing) maybe its best for you to restate it here: What is the real issue? what do you wish to accomplish in this new conversation?

I have an idea but since "putting words in your mouth" is part of the thing I want to let you be the one to say it, I might get it wrong and we'd be back to square one.

[Sunfl0wer]

Thank you itsmesnap... .
I thought it best to step away from this conversation because I don’t understand it.

I hear someone saying all they want to do is speak... .“get something off their chest.”

Yet... .
It would appear via behavior that Nuitari wants more.

I sympathize to a degree.  My son has ASD.  I am familiar with different ways it presents due to being involved in that community in varying ways.  Sometimes the folks struggle to process information, emotional regulation, and other difficulties.  It can be a real mind bender for a person with ASD trying to decipher what others are saying to the point of it feeling very disorienting.

I do know that it seems best to try to speak as literal, and explicit as possible.

Yet I suspect more is happening than simple communication issues.  I suspect information processing issues are also at play and that this is likely leaving Nuitari very frustrated.

All I can say is that I’m sorry that you do not feel this format of working through things has always been useful.

In any event... .ItsmeSnap asks:

What is the real issue? what do you wish to accomplish in this new conversation?

So maybe someone can help you stay the course/focused and help you sort out what is ailing you.


(Not sure if this is ok to say but delete if not... .my good friend who has ASD has better luck using a website like Loveshack.com because he gets more pragmatic advice.  They do not ask you to dig deeper into the meanings of behaviors, or to make abstract connections to thoughts, etc.  Instead, just a bunch of people will give you more concrete direction.  It could be helpful. Then again it is also a forum where people will share different opinions so one would have to be able to allow and expect to encounter opinions that are different than their own.)

[Insom]

Hi, Nuitari.     Welcome back.  I remember you from last year and am hearing loud and clear that you didn't feel validated here.  Thank you for reminding us about your autism diagnosis which is super-helpful in understanding where you're coming from.  If you choose to continue participating here you may find it helpful to disclose that at the start of each thread you start or join so people who pop and and out can also receive that reminder. 

I can see why last year's thread felt frustrating to you and appreciate that you came back here to let us know. 

[Nuitari]

What is the real issue? what do you wish to accomplish in this new conversation?

It’s hard being misunderstood all the time, and I’m trying to get better at addressing these things when they happen, as opposed to years later.  I figured its better late than never, and maybe I can learn something here that will bring me closer to that goal.  The conversations that I needed to have here never even began because I was too busy trying to clarify this and that.  Until my affair, I never gave much thought to the inner dynamics of a relationship, and I was left with a lot of questions, such as why a man would fight so hard to remain with a partner he couldn’t trust.  Everyone else here seemed to get him, but I didn’t.  I’m a very detail-oriented person, and I need to thoroughly understand something before I can move on from it.  I thought I could better make sense of my experience with the help of others here.  One member had the following to say…

His marital problems do not legitimise your affair, excuse your behaviour or make him responsible for your affair.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=302462.0

This is something this particular member loved to tell me.  I’m not proud of my affair, and it was hard for me come here and admit to it.  Frankly, I can’t help but be a little offended that someone would think I’m trying to justify it.  It didn’t matter that I told him repeatedly that I’m in way condoning or justifying my actions.  This member interpreted everything I said, every question I asked, as an attempt to excuse my affair.  He couldn’t seem to see it any other way.  Who’s fault is this?  Was he just not hearing me, like my middle school’s guest speaker in my story above?  Did I not properly articulate myself?  I suspect the latter had a big part to play, and I’ve spent these past few years searching for what I should have said back then.  I feel good about my OP in this thread (I spent a year working on it!) and it is my hope that I am able to convey with it what I couldn’t then. 

[Nuitari]

Hi, Nuitari.     Welcome back.  I remember you from last year and am hearing loud and clear that you didn't feel validated here.  Thank you for reminding us about your autism diagnosis which is super-helpful in understanding where you're coming from.  If you choose to continue participating here you may find it helpful to disclose that at the start of each thread you start or join so people who pop and and out can also receive that reminder. 

I can see why last year's thread felt frustrating to you and appreciate that you came back here to let us know. 

Thanks for the warm welcome Insom.  In truth, I don't like bringing up my ASD because I don't want to give the appearance that I'm using it as some kind of excuse or reason to be naïve.  I feel like it can turn into a crutch if I bring it up regularly.  People shouldn't have to know about my ASD in order to empathize or understand.  If I can't communicate a problem or frustration I'm having without bringing up ASD, then I'm doing it wrong. 

[Insom]

You're welcome, Nuitari.  I hear you have high expectations for yourself and others when it comes to verbal communication. 

One thing you may have noticed is that we have a lot of different categories of boards here.  The reason for that is because people have different emotional needs depending on the type and status of the relationship they came here for help with.  Each board has a different culture.  Some boards are more about validation and empathy.  Others, like Bettering, are more about developing relationship skills.  On Learning you'll find both those things, plus members sometimes challenge other members to view things from different perspectives.  What I'm hearing from you is that you viewed some of the challenges you received here as invalidating.  I can see why you felt that way.  Your feelings were and are valid.  At the same time, challenge is part of this board's culture.  I know how difficult and frustrating it can feel when another person challenges your point of view!  But it's also a path to learning and ultimately well being.  As someone with ASD, would you like to say more about what it feels like to you to have your perceptions challenged?

[itsmeSnap]

It’s hard being misunderstood all the time, and I’m trying to get better at addressing these things when they happen

You mention being detail oriented, give me details!

But seriously, not being heard is one thing you can't control, expressing yourself in a "different" way (which is what I'm reading you're trying to do, again I know, an assumption on my part, so correct me if I'm wrong) is definitely possible.

The challenge is to describe your need in as much detail as possible, what about the way you say things do you feel is not helping you get the point across? So far you provided examples of events when it happened, we know it happened and the circumstances of it, but so far your goal, what "addressing it" means still eludes me. Is it to get them to say sorry? Or to acknowledge their mistake? To agree with you?

To me (and everyone else in that other thread apparently) your motives are not clear, and I guess thats why people were jumping to conclusions (I just did too a few paragraphs ago! and again here by assuming why they jump to conclusions )

My dad used to believe that everyone shared his point of view, he would say thing like "obviously he should do this", "you know thats not how things are done", or my "favorite" (sarcastic  as in, it was the one I disliked the most) "remember that movie? Oh come on you remember, we saw it last time!" And I had no idea what he was talking about.

It takes some perception of the other, to understand their thought process, to "know" how they would process the message, in order to "craft" a more effective one.

This is part of the reason people jump to conclusions, in their effort to understand you, they make an image of your thought process, and in this case they got it wrong, so their message was not effective for you and you get to feel misunderstood, makes sense?

I used to tell my dad there were other ways to think about the situation, even if I ended up agreeing to it. He eventually caught on that I would bring up alternatives, so he preempted me and mentioned a few himself to "disarm" me, and by him considering the alternative, he slowly realized that not everyone shared "his reality", and I couldn't read his mind, so he started providing extra details so I could see into his mind a bit better (that's why I asked for them!)

He used to be angry and frustrated a lot in part because of it, now we're better than ever 

If I can't communicate a problem or frustration I'm having without bringing up ASD, then I'm doing it wrong.

Don't beat yourself up nuitari, if everyone could do it I imagine more than half the people on the boards would have never had an issue to begin with, myself included (no asd that I know of).

I hear someone saying all they want to do is speak... .“get something off their chest.”

Yet... .
It would appear via behavior that Nuitari wants more

To SunFlower and anyone else interested in my motives for participating in this thread:

People with BPD also have a hard time expressing their needs and interpreting what others mean with their words and actions, I know my gf did, and she mentioned repeatedly that when she needed something from me she just didn't know how to ask for it, even though she knew exactly what she wanted/needed.

Hints were not enough, she would get frustrated and say she didn't know what to do, at that point I understood (from context) what she wanted and could provide it for her, but at least one time it was too late and she felt rejected, broke up with me.

So, for me both communicating with and understanding someone like nuitari (its not about the autism nuitari, just fyi) who wants help with this particular issue, helps us both with a critical skill we're both seeking to improve. A window into his process and how he's making progress is a window into how to better connect with my gf (now ex, its complicated) should we ever get back together.

I did mention I was selfish right?
 

[Sunfl0wer]

So, for me both communicating with and understanding someone like nuitari (its not about the autism nuitari, just fyi) who wants help with this particular issue, helps us both with a critical skill we're both seeking to improve.

Personally very much appreciate the whole last post.  That is why I read and interact.  I really do love seeing others model a certain balance of compassion and get it “right.” It feeds my soul and models for me stuff I may pick from to integrate into my own communication style. 

(I am picky in my desires for a certain balance of challenge vs coddling... .and I sometimes may enter here on the defense of what often feels like patronizing words/placating words to another/or pleas for such... .cause that is a very personal trigger for me and my own baggage.)

Thank you again... .
I do like the way this thread progressed, on many levels.

Hoping things progress for Nuitari to recieve what he is seeking.

[Nuitari]

So far you provided examples of events when it happened, we know it happened and the circumstances of it, but so far your goal, what "addressing it" means still eludes me. Is it to get them to say sorry? Or to acknowledge their mistake? To agree with you?

I think those are probably unrealistic expectations.  Addressing it for me means stating the facts of my side very clearly (something I don't think I did well).  What they do with those facts is up to them, but at least I can take consolation in that I said what I had to.  

This is part of the reason people jump to conclusions, in their effort to understand you, they make an image of your thought process, and in this case they got it wrong, so their message was not effective for you and you get to feel misunderstood, makes sense?

Makes perfect sense.  This is what I was referring to in my OP when I said they were writing a script.  I expressed a lot of anger in those older threads.  I also expressed a desire to call my ex's husband and reveal the affair to him.  In an effort to form a coherrent picture, these members decided that I wanted to do this out of anger over him "taking" her from me.  That is the simplest explanation, so that's the one they settled for.  That's understandable.  What I take issue with is how some members continued to hold on, and defend, this view after I told them things aren't that simple.  I'm talking about conversations of this type... .

member A:  I get what you're feeling.  You're feeling X.

member B:  Actually, I'm not.  I can see how it must look that way to you, but I need you to trust me when I say that's not what I'm feeling.

member A:  No, you're feeling X.  That's very clear.  You just can't admit it to yourself.

Is it me, or did member A cross a line?  I've actually had this happen to me here.  Here's one example... .

... .but you continue to use the loss of the job to mask the real reason you want to make him pay.

Is it me or are comments like this one bordering on arrogance?  He is speaking as if he knows for a fact the "real reason why I want to make him pay."  I am a stranger on a message board, and my posts here are the only window into my story that he has.  Given that, how can he speak of my inner desires and motivations with such confidence, and continue to do so after I correct him?  Even if we aren't licensed therapists, I think we should still strive for a measure of professionality, and I would argue that it is very unprofessional to psychoanalyze a stranger on a message board.  

There is so much of my story that I've never shared here, mainly because I don't want to relive it.  I made no secret about that.  Without knowing my entire story, and how it fits with the rest of my life experiences, without knowing  me personally and how I deal with things, how can anyone feel confident that they know the "real reason" why I want to do this or that?  

[itsmeSnap]

Addressing it for me means stating the facts of my side very clearly (something I don't think I did well).

Well, just like I mentioned, the facts are there, your inner process seems missing (and I think I'm starting to understand this) because it sounds (again, maybe assumption, I'm going to stop making these little notes ) like stating the facts is a goal in and of itself, nothing after it, just "hey, know this".

In an effort to form a coherrent picture, these members decided that I wanted to do this out of anger over him "taking" her from me.

The "why" feels missing, probably because (like my dad) of them thinking you have the same thought process as they do, they have a need to feel that void, so they assume.

"it can't be just this" they think, so there's something missing, if there's something missing, they ask, and since you can't provide a "satisfactory answer" (satisfactory to them at least), then you're hiding/avoiding it or in denial.

Even for me its kinda difficult to understand that the "motives" void is actually settled, though not in the way I expected, but I'm trying real hard 

Anyway, my point is that the seeming lack of communication I think is more about the process than the message. Stating the facts is the goal, not what those facts "mean", to you or to them. The seemingly clear explanation (and I include myself here, I did ask again for motives) is that there's no ulterior motive, and that is indeed foreign to a lot of people.

So, since "everyone" (they think) has ulterior motives, they just slap you with their own conclusion. There "has" to be one (again, they think), and you apparently don't seem to have them. Therein lies the mismatch I think.

What I take issue with is how some members continued to hold on, and defend, this view after I told them things aren't that simple.

Yeah, this I don't know how to help you dealing with other than just "learn to pick your fights". Have you read the lessons on validation? that's a good way to handle them without escalating their accusations, its about having them understand that you also understand (hoping this makes sense ) why they would come to such a conclusion without actually saying that they're wrong (which could lead to a further round of "No, YOU'RE wrong/in denial/playing games/etc").

Is it me, or did member A cross a line?  I've actually had this happen to me here.

Yes probably, I've done it a couple of times before and received some "serious remarks" about it.

Even if we aren't licensed therapists, I think we should still strive for a measure of professionality

Well, being in a forum with people in highly emotional states (from suffering abuse throughout their lives or having recently gone through a traumatizing event in their relationship), we have to try and see it for what it is. It might be projection on their part, it might be a generally negative outlook on life because of said trauma, it might be a million other things.

If staff did it then I'd question it, but coming from members, there's supposed to be a lot of wiggle room for blowing steam and expressing anger/frustration/all the rest. If in the future you do feel like the discussion is going past a certain acceptable level of "not cool", feel free to drop a PM to staff/admins/ambassadors, they work behind the scenes and here with members to make everyone feel safe and welcome, they can look into it and work you through any problem interactions with other members.

Without knowing my entire story, and how it fits with the rest of my life experiences, without knowing  me personally and how I deal with things, how can anyone feel confident that they know the "real reason" why I want to do this or that?

It is hard, people are not used to really listen, the "next best thing" to them (assuming) missed the mark with you. What you make of it is important now, do you hold on to the grudge, or learn from it, up to you.

Well, that's a long post for now, I hope I didn't miss anything

[steelwork]

Nuitari, I remember you well, and I remember your struggle to make yourself understood here. I recognized so much of myself in it. I know well that quicksand feeling of trying to explain yourself but feeling understanding slip ever further from your grasp.

I think of myself at times as a dog worrying a bone. Even when I get that the details aren't important, or that it's not important that this or that particular person understand what I meant, I just. can't. let. it. go.

In my case, it's not a matter of autism. It's got more to do (I've discovered, after MUCH therapy and soul-searching) with having felt so very unheard as a child. By "unheard," I mean even by myself. It was an existential battle at times to bring my fears and needs to the surface in the context of a family that expected me to have no age-appropriate needs.

That's me, not you. The point I'm trying to make is that it might help to frame this as a struggle within yourself rather than one with other people. Perfect understanding is elusive. Even partial understanding is rare. With certain people and in certain environments, working to bring people to a full understanding really is like struggling in quicksand. It gets you in deeper, and feelings of desperation creep in.

And I also recognize the hail-mary response of going silent. I do that, too.

I wanted to be heard, not told by someone else how I feel.  This has been eating away at me for some time, and I finally had to address it.  

I hate being told how I feel! You could even say it's a "trigger." But triggers are signposts that tell you where something is buried, right?

I know you don't want advice. You want understanding. I'm afraid you will never get it from others to your complete satisfaction. It's like that elusive closure from a painful relationship.

I still have the compulsion every now and then to contact her husband and tell him everything, but only occasionally.  

Yeah, flare-ups. More unsolicited advice: try to notice when the compulsion shows up. Is it connected to stress, or "triggers"?

Jeez. I hope you know how deeply I identify.

[Nuitari]

Steelwork,

Thank you for your reply.  I remember you from my time here as well.  I know that I tend to focus on the negative and complain a lot about the bad experiences I had here, but your post above is a reminder that there were some understanding people here as well, and I thank you for that reminder.

[Nuitari]

I would like to share a few more things that might help others see where I'm coming from.  

This might sound weird, but I like daily routines.  If at all possible, I will do the same thing every day.  At the college where I worked, I had a specific routine that I stuck to.  When my classes were over for the day, I would go to my office and work.  The college felt more like my home than my apartment, so that's where I pretty much stayed all the time.  There was always plenty to do: make tests, study guides, grade test, grade lab reports, etc.  I always did this stuff at the school.  I would stop at 6:00 pm to eat dinner, then come back to the office and continue to work until 9:00 pm, at which point I would go home.  This was my routine for years.  At any rate, when the college learned of my involvement with my ex, the administration decided to investigate me.  In particular, they wanted to know why I was always on the campus so late.  I told them that working until 9:00 pm was part of my daily routine.  They didn't buy that, but it was the truth.  In their way of looking at it, my being there late could only mean that I was up to no good, and this was something that was taken into consideration when the decision was made to terminate my employment.  The affair alone was enough to make me deserving of being fired, but this misunderstanding still bothers me.

I couldn't continue to see my ex knowing that she was with her husband and wasn't going to leave him.  Things were supposedly really bad between them, but I had to know if they were sleeping together.  When I would ask, I would usually get a long speech about how she couldn't leave him, about how she wished things could be different, blah, blah, blah.  I was asking a very simple question.  It only required a one word response.  She just had to say yes or no.  That's all I was looking for.  But evidently, when I would ask her if she were sleeping with him, what she was hearing was me asking her to leave him!  Again, a communication problem, another instance of someone reading something additional into my words.  Given that we had no future together, I finally got up the strength to tell her that I coudn't continue to see her.  Her response?  She told me to stop with the drama.  She said she didn't need it.  I didn't need it either, hence me telling her that I didn't want to see her anymore. It was that simple. She couldn't seem to wrap her head around the idea that I was being sincere and wasn't playing some game.  The husband, too, seemed to be under then impression that it was part of some scheme to "get sympathy" from her. No. I didn't want to see her anymore. My saying it should have been enough to make her know it.

I'm a very direct guy.  There are no subtexts or double-meanings to the things I say.  I pretty much just say what I'm thinking, but I still can't communicate with others because they want to construct some story that seems to come out nowhere.

[itsmeSnap]

In their way of looking at it, my being there late could only mean that I was up to no good

My dad did the same thing, he also had a hard time with staff telling him to vacate his office after hours. He was a bit of a workaholic so different situations, but still I'm assuming (!) that you were there "after hours", ie: past your regular paid time. You were not expected to be there. Even if it was innocent you were still expected not to be there, and depending on policy, even inappropriate in and of itself, no affair needed.

I had to know if they were sleeping together.  When I would ask, I would usually get a long speech about how she couldn't leave him, about how she wished things could be different, blah, blah, blah.

Consider the outcomes of each answer:
She answers no, you take it literally, but she's lying. You can both go about your merry way and continue the affair, but she doesn't trust that you'll take it at face value, that's her struggle. Technically she could have taken advantage of you right there, but either she didn't want to, or she didn't believe she could get away with it.

She answers yes she's sleeping with him, she probably thinks you're not going to stay with her in that case (either you told her, or she assumes that it would happen because it's "the normal thing" someone would do), not because "you're asking her to leave him" (that's an assumption on your part nuitari), she doesn't want that, so she tries a third choice, that spiel she gave you about " hoping things were different".

Its a "non answer" that seems like one, but you didn't buy it obviously.

Again, a communication problem, another instance of someone reading something additional into my words.

We all do it, its part of the process. If I had to describe what an apple is every time it was brought up we'd never get to the point, I assume you know what an apple is and act accordingly. If instead I talk about a durian and you've never heard of it, then a clarification is in order, and I get to describe it. Communication didn't fail, you got the message, but the background info is missing, or misinterpreted like if you think "isn't a durian that star fruit thing? gotta be" and not say a word, we are working on two different concepts, even though the message is loud and clear, assumptions are incorrect and the messages seem to clash or come "out of nowhere".

Unfortunately this very straightforward example sometimes doesn't hold up. Like my dad when he was convinced "I had seen the movie" even though I told him I hadn't. If they hold on to assumptions (fact to them), its very hard to convince anyone of anything.

My saying it should have been enough to make her know it.

I'm sure she knew, but what comes next after knowing? she has to make a choice, what to do with that info: does she let you go, does she try to convince you to stay, does she try to convince you to keep it a secret so she can "separate" from the husband?

There are no subtexts or double-meanings to the things I say.  I pretty much just say what I'm thinking, but I still can't communicate with others because they want to construct some story that seems to come out nowhere.

Hopefully I'm getting the point across that its sometimes not about the "meaning", but the consequences of the communication, that drive those "seemingly out of nowhere" responses. There is an internal process there, it's just that its not readily apparent from the communication alone.

To understand where its coming from means to truly understand the mind of the other person. You have to "let go" of your process for a moment and consider theirs, and read a lot between lines because few people just say what's on their mind no filter so to speak.

Ok so, much explaining, such wow . Now that all this info is here, what would you want to do with it? how do you take all thats being said and apply it to your communications with other so there's a lower chance of such misunderstandings in the future?

[Nuitari]

Itsmesnap,

Thanks for the reply.  I'll have a longer response later when I have more time to devote to it.  But for now, here are couple of immediate thoughts... .

My dad did the same thing, he also had a hard time with staff telling him to vacate his office after hours. He was a bit of a workaholic so different situations, but still I'm assuming (!) that you were there "after hours", ie: past your regular paid time. You were not expected to be there. Even if it was innocent you were still expected not to be there, and depending on policy, even inappropriate in and of itself, no affair needed.

I know this wasn't clear in my post above, but there's no such thing as "after hours" for a college professor.  Its not a job where you punch a time card and clock-out at a certain time every day.  Devoting hours of work without pay is part of the job.  Making tests, all the grading we do, that's all on our time.  I wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary.  Many faculty at the college level have been known to stay late occasionally and work.  I just did it consistently, and until I became involved with my ex, no one cared.  Again, it wasn't something taboo, it just looked bad to them given the trouble I was already in.  They were writing a story.  

To understand where its coming from means to truly understand the mind of the other person. You have to "let go" of your process for a moment and consider theirs, and read a lot between lines because few people just say what's on their mind no filter so to speak.

Its sounds like you're encouraging reading between the lines?  I don't feel comfortable with that because that's the same kind of thing that led to the misunderstandings that I've been pointing out here, people trying to read between lines.  Seems like it leads to a lot of erroneous assumptions.  


I'll have more to say when I digest the rest of your post.

[itsmeSnap]

I know this wasn't clear in my post above, but there's no such thing as "after hours" for a college professor.

My dad is also a college level professor, and cultural/policy issues aside, I know the lifestyle . Still, it happened.

until I became involved with my ex, no one cared

Maybe they did care more than they let you know. People do sometimes have ulterior motives and fake smiles, and sometimes it is fair to assume the worst. Maybe it was personal and the affair gave them the perfect excuse. I can't know for sure, if it felt like it to you then there might be a grain of truth in there.

I don't feel comfortable with that because that's the same kind of thing that led to the misunderstandings that I've been pointing out here, people trying to read between lines.  Seems like it leads to a lot of erroneous assumptions.

Well, the thing is that not delving into their process would make it seem like it comes "out of nowhere" like it has so far. Understanding allows you to take an educated guess and ask for confirmation by the other ("it seems to me this and that, did I get this right?") to make sure everyone's on the same page.

The breakdown as you correctly point out, is in the assumption and not letting go of them. They think something, they don't want to change their mind, and you telling them the facts may or may not change that, probably won't. But at least you now know their "fundamental" assumption, where it comes from, and can plan your next steps accordingly.

Hopefully just reading my little "mind diving" analysis into their process can at least make your interactions with those people in the future and their reactions a bit less "out of nowhere". But that's just, like, my opinion man (I never saw the big lebowski movie, just know that quote from the memes )

Standing by for the longer response

[Nuitari]

Maybe they did care more than they let you know. People do sometimes have ulterior motives and fake smiles, and sometimes it is fair to assume the worst. Maybe it was personal and the affair gave them the perfect excuse.

I don't believe this for a minute.  I was always on very good standing with the college.  Hope I don't come across as bragging, but I always got excellent teaching evaluations, not only from my students, but from my superiors who had to routinely observe a lecture every now and then. If they had a problem with me personally, they wouldn't have promoted me after seven years with them.  I was made course-director of physics at the college.  I was chosen over several internal and external applicates (one guy came all the way across the country just to interview for that position). In light of all this, your above speculations just don't ring true for me.  If they didn't like me they had a funny way of showing it.  Given my history with them, I know this wasn't something personal.  It was about my ex.  Maybe I should have mentioned that my office was in the same building where my ex had night classes.  So I think the underlying assumption was that I was there at night to see her.  The college questioned both myself and my ex about why I was there at night, as if it was some big mystery.  I had already told them why, and it actually had nothing to do with her.  I get how it must have looked on their end, but the misunderstanding still bothers me.  

At any rate, on to your other observations... .

I've been reflecting on your comments, and here's what I'm taking away from them.  I should be more forgiving of people making false assumptions, but I do have a right to be upset/offended when someone doesn't budge from their assumptions after being corrected.  I hope I'm not putting words in your mouth, but that's what I've taken away from our exchange so far.  Even as I type this, it occurs to me that what this is really about is boundaries.  I have a bad habit of not enforcing them, and that's what's bugging me.  I literally had this epiphany as I typed those last couple of sentences!  If I could turn back time, here's what I would have told those members in those older threads... .


"I don't mean to be rude, but none of this is about your beliefs. You're not required to 'sign off' on my story for it to be true.  I gave you the facts, and I told you where I'm coming from.  I need you to take what I've said here seriously, and if you can't do that, you and I have nothing more to say to one another."

What I did instead was generate more posts in an effort to make them understand, which I guess only reinforced for them the notion that it was a debatable issue.  The result was page after page of these members and I going back and forth debating whether or not some event really happened, or whether I really feel this and that.  I wasn't enforcing boundaries.  If I had just said the above, in just one post I am taking back ownership of my story.  Everything always looks clearer in hindsight, and I see now how I should have reacted.  I'm kicking myself for it now.  I can't turn back time, but in some small way, starting this thread and saying what I needed to say then here and now somehow helps.


I'm kind of feeling the same thing in regards to my ex.  I recently had a terrible dream that my ex starting taking classes at the college where I now teach.  It was horrible.  It was one of those dreams where you wake up and you're so relieved to find out it wasn't real.  That being said, part of me would love to see her walk into my office one day, just so I could have the pleasure of telling her to get out!  That's what I should have done the first time, and I feel like I need to do that now.  Just like my ex, some individuals here pushed boundaries, and I let them.  This thread is me resetting those boundaries.  Its the only way I know to do it.