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Author Topic: My journey with therapy - III  (Read 700 times)
patientandclear
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« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2017, 09:37:33 AM »

Nuitari: this sounds super painful. I relate to a lot of your expressed feelings about the injustice of it all.

My sense, though, is that the core cause of your pain is that the woman you cared about so much was not at all who you thought. The woman you thought she was would not have made any of the choices she subsequently made. Sometimes it's harder to focus on the core betrayal and so we look for another target. She painted a picture to get you involved with her that proved quite inaccurate, about her situation, how she felt and what she would do. And you invested and believed. That's a formula for intense hurt.

If you frame what happened, all of it (his reactions; her reaction to his reactions) in terms of her not being who she seemed, and the situation not being what she painted it to be to you -- you may find that all the facts fall into place; and the grieving appropriate to such a situation can proceed.
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« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2017, 09:45:52 AM »

Excerpt
Just wanted to add one more thing. When I focus on myself for too long, I feel like I'm running away from something

In my opinion... .

Healing cannot happen until we look inward.
I'd be curious to hear, what does you therapist say about looking outward vs inward?

In my experience... .

While looking inward has been often more uncomfortable for one reason or another... . 

Looking inward has almost always been more fruitful.




Benefits of an Internal Locus of Control

In general, people with an internal locus of control:
  • Engage in activities that will improve their situation.
  • Emphasize striving for achievement.
  • Work hard to develop their knowledge, skills and abilities.
  • Are inquisitive, and try to figure out why things turned out the way they did.
  • Take note of information that they can use to create positive outcomes in the future.
  • Have a more participative management style.
Taken from:
https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newCDV_90.htm

Obviously, it is your choice where to put your focus.
However, I challenge you kindly... .
What the heck is the point of ruminating over another person's "bad" behavior that we cannot change?
Are you not still in the same place you were, simply upset about their bad behavior?
How many more years do you plan to ruminate over the injustices you percieve vs focusing on thriving using what you in fact CAN control?
Do you find this not to be a re victimizing of yourself by yourself?
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Nuitari
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« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2017, 12:12:13 PM »

Reforming, thanks for your reply.

Excerpt
You have used the argument before to define his behaviour as animalistic and possessive. I see vulnerability and pain. Almost everyone who betrayed by a partner or spouse feels overwhelming grief, pain and anger. For many the instinctive reaction is to try and protect or defend themselves and their family.


When I lost my job, my ex said things went too far. But I don't see it that way. Things didn't go far enough. I wanted it to escalate. Part of me still does. The outcome doesn't matter, only what I can do. I know this sounds terrible, but that's honestly how I feel. Your above quote only makes me feel worse and more angry. If what you say is true, and it was instinct, not reason, guiding his actions, it only fuels my compulsion to do more damage to his marriage. Instinct alone should never be a justification for an act.

Excerpt
I think your T is absolutely right to question your exes version of events. It's very possible that she was trying anticipate and deflect the potential fallout from her affair being exposed by telling husband that the school were making false accusations. That you had been helping her out and she was really upset that you were going to punished for this. Her primary motive was her own self interest. She was afraid that the school would expose her affair to her husband.

My ex seemed pretty convinced that he intentionally sabatoged the investigation. She was very angry about it, to the point where she started talking about leaving again. She even tried to persuade me to call him and tell him about her and his brother so that I can "get revenge." She knew his motivations better that me, and she seemed pretty sure that he was trying to get me fired. You are right when you say she is very manipulative, and I suppose its possible that her motivations were as you outlined above, but why the need to convince me that what he did was intentional?

Excerpt
If her husband really wanted to get you fired why did he not just confirm your employers suspicions and tell them that he suspected you were having an affair with his wife?

Because she had warned him once that if he ever stooped that low as to go to my employers, they were threw. I think what he did was a clever way of telling on me without actually telling on me. It was a cheap shot.

Excerpt
He didn't break his vows - she did. He is not responsible for her choice to have an affair with you.

How did he force her to end the affair? He does not have the power to do this and he cannot compel to her stay in their marriage. She chose to do this

He told her to stop seeing me. And when that didn't work, he went over her head and told me to stop seeing her. You are right that he doesn't have the power to do this. I see his actions as him lashing out because no one was recognizing his imaginary position of authority, instead of simply realizing and accepting that he is in a loveless marriage to a woman who can't and won't reciprocate his feelings. That would have been the reasonable, mature thing to do. Instead he just shouted orders and expected others to follow, only mindful of what he wanted.

Excerpt
I've been in his place and as you observed you haven't. My own personal experience was that it's very painful and traumatic.

But you knew about your wife's affair, right? I don't think he knows about hers, and that's a big part of my problem. He doesn't have to know about her betrayal. I was temporarily used by her when it was convenient for her to be with me, and then she gets to resume her marriage when it suits her, while I lost everything. The only reason she got to resume her marriage was because I allowed it. I possibly could have ruined it. Why did I allow her the convenience of walking away and resuming her normal life after my life got wrecked? Does she even appreciate that I didn't call him? No. She just took for granted that I would keep my mouth shut and keep my feelings to myself. A person can only take so much before they have to do something. This is where I am now. This was the most traumatic event of my life, and I never reacted to it. Just sat back and watched it all happen to me. I never even raised my voice to anyone. I never had any kind of emotional reaction to what happened, and I still need to have one. That's what's normal, and that's what I need before I can move on.

My ex said that he pretty much moved on after I lost my job, as if my job loss was somehow therapeutic for him. When it came up six months later, she said he didn't even talk about it anymore, like it was all ancient history. How can it be possible that he could recover so quickly after so serious an episode, unless certain facts were kept from him? I saw the two of them in public once, at an annual festival that's held downtown where we live, and they looked happy, or at least he did. A band was playing, and he was up dancing around making a big fool of himself. If he is hurting, he's got a funny way of showing it.

Excerpt
Why do you think he's in a better place than you? Because she's with him?

Because I can't see anyone being in worse place.

Excerpt
Maybe I have misread your older posts but I find this slightly contradictory given what you wrote then.
Excerpt
She spoke highly of her husband and said that they had always had a happy marriage

The husband returned home, and things got really messy. I get the impression that they had a pretty good marriage up to that point, and he couldn't understand her sudden animosity and lack of feelings for him

She claimed that they had a relatively good marriage, and called her husband a "good man." But she said that she just didn't love him, and that she wanted out. I took her word for it.
 
Excerpt
You and your ex chose to hide your affair. Her husband did not have full knowledge of what was happening because it was hidden from him by you and his wife.

I know this might be hard to believe given the circumstances, but I'm actually a very honest person. I never wanted to hide things from him. The only reason he knew of my existence in the first place was because I urged her to tell him. I'm not trying to pin the whole thing on my ex. I'm really not, but I didn't find out until later how little he knew of what was going on. I feel like such a fool now. If she were really serious about leaving him, why keep the affair hidden? I was played, and then she gets to go back to her husband who conveniently sees the whole thing as another man trying to brainwash his wife. Can you see why I would be tempted to expose her? To have it all blow up in her face? You may not agree with it, but can you at least see my temptation?

Excerpt
This is key dynamic in affairs. Secrecy.

I know this is going to sound extremely silly (believe it or not but I am actually very self-aware of how I'm coming off here), but I never meant to have an affair. It was never supposed to turn into that. That doesn't excuse all that happened later, but this was someone who I wanted to spend the rest of my life with, who I thought felt the same way. It was never supposed to be an affair. It was supposed to be a beginning of a life together (I feel so foolish admitting to these beliefs now). It was never supposed to be she and I seeing each other behind her unknowing husband's back. I really hate that this is what it turned into.

Excerpt
You also chose to hid your affair from her husband and your employers though you want to expose it to him now. Why?

I never chose to hide anything from her husband. When I look back, I see all these missed opportunities for communication with him that I didn't take advantage of, and I'm really kicking myself now for it. How much of his ignorance and denial am I responsible for? There were times when he wanted to have a dialogue with me, and I passed it up. Sometimes it was because I was trying to move on and not "stir the pot" anymore. And sometimes I didn't want say anything that would make life bad for my ex. But now, I don't care about any of that. I'm really kicking myself now for not opening up some kind of dialogue with him when it was relevant. I realize now that I needed that, and still do.

Excerpt
You have said before that you needed their marriage to end. Why?

Because that's what would actually make sense, as opposed to two people shrugging the whole thing off and moving on in their marriage without being at all disturbed by what happened. I was pretty angry when I made that above comment. I don't actually need their marriage end. I would just like to know that there was some kind of fallout from the affair, that this incident had some lingering repercussions, something they had to work through. That's what makes sense to me. She did mislead me and play with my feelings to the point where my life fell apart. For them to be able to walk away and not even have any long-term memory of the event is incomprehensible to me. I just want some kind of acknowledgment.

Excerpt
Can you see that others might view your behaviour through this exact prism?

Completely, but with one important difference. If I'm making false assumptions and drawing wrong conclusions, it isn't because of denial. I feel that I'm making an honest effort to understand what happened. If I'm not drawing the correct conclusions, it isn't from a lack of trying.
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Nuitari
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« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2017, 07:56:56 PM »

Excerpt
I think your T is absolutely right to question your exes version of events. It's very possible that she was trying anticipate and deflect the potential fallout from her  affair being exposed by telling husband that the school were making false accusations. That you had been helping her out and she was really upset that you were going to punished for this. Her primary motive was her own self interest. She was afraid that the school would expose her affair to her husband.

I've been thinking a lot about this, and it actually jogged my memory about something that was said during the investigation that never made sense, and now I think it does. I'm always being told to move on and focus on other things, but I can't because I'm still putting the pieces together. Two years after the fact, I feel that I'm still making new discoveries. There is something that never added up. My ex and I were both questioned by the school separately. My ex claimed that the lady questioning her said that I was being investigated due to suspicion of being involved with a number of female students, and that my ex was just one of many. I was shocked and outraged that the school would say something like that. During my eight years there, I was always professional and, until becoming involved with my ex, never did anything to warrant disciplinary action. After losing my job, I arranged a meeting with the woman who conducted the investigation, the same woman who questioned my ex, and during the meeting I questioned her about this accusation. She seemed very surprised and denied ever saying it. Now, I have two theories about this... .

1) The woman who questioned my ex said this to try to get a reaction out of her. The school never knew about our affair, only suspected it, and this was said in an effort to gauge my ex's reaction to the news that I was seeing other women.

2) My ex made it up. I don't know why it took me so long to consider this possibility.

I was told by my employers that the husband visited the school demanding to know the "real" reason why I was fired. So he was clearly having trouble buying that nothing inappropriate was going on. Could my ex have made up this false accusation of me seeing other female students to avoid a fallout with her husband, to make him think my being fired was due to reasons that extended beyond her? Its possible that she decided to tell me the same story of false accusations by the school so that in the event that the husband and I ever talked, the lie couldn't be traced back to her. Could my ex really be that conniving and manipulative? Or am I making connections that aren't there?

That she could make something like that about me really hurts, and it makes me feel foolish for risking so much to be with this woman. I know I never told the story in full of the face-to-face meeting that the husband and I had, but I stood in front of him and looked him in the eye and told him I loved her. I did this at great risk to my physical health and my career. That's how much she meant to me. That she could turn around and make up false accusations and further drag my name through the mud just to save her own skin really hurts. How could she do that? The realization that she most likely did this just brings all the pain back in full. I don't want to believe that she did this, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. That I was willing to stand in front of her husband and proclaim my undying love for her while she is making this stuff up about me is humiliating, and I can't begin to describe how much this hurts, or how angry I am. She played with my feelings to the point where I inadvertently threw away everything that mattered to me, and then she further stabs me in the back so that she can avoid accountability with her husband? If she can do that, she's not a human being. I don't know how to get over that kind of betrayal. I want to expose her to him so badly.  
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Nuitari
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« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2017, 07:11:16 PM »

I apologize for resurrecting this thread. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse at this point. I promise I will stop. I don't want anyone to feel obligated to respond. I'm not looking to start a big debate or anything.  My recent session with my T has really opened my eyes about some things, and I just wanted to share.

Something has shifted for me in a profound way. Lately, I've been able to look at things with a kind of clarity that I couldn't before. I've become able to step back and see the big picture.  My whole experience with my ex tells a story, and its one that I don't like. I could never see it all until now, and I'm left feeling like an idiot that I couldn't see things that were so blatantly obvious. I shared things with my T yesterday that I never told anyone. I went into great length describing how it all began with my ex, and I went into great detail regarding conversations that I had with her (specific things my ex said, etc), and much to my horror, my T actually agreed with my assessment that my ex consciously manipulated and used me. I've been saying that for a while now, but I feel like I'm only now able to truly see it. I can't begin to describe what I'm feeling right now. Three years after the fact, and I'm only just now waking up to what happened, and I feel humiliated. None of it was real. I never knew the real her. All I saw was a character she was playing. The first time in my life I decided to share my feelings with someone, and she used them for her own personal benefit. I hate her so much. She's not even a human being to me anymore, and I wish nothing but terrible things for her. I've been visiting this board for a while, and it seems to be the general consensus among members here that our ex's loved us the best way they knew how, until they couldn't anymore, that the feelings they showed us were real, only unsustainable.  This was not my experience. I can no longer pretend that there was anything genuine about her, and I no longer wish to. She once suggested that we should only "have fun" until her husband came back, and immediately tried to pass it off as a joke when she saw that it upset me. But she wasn't joking.  My T said that she was "testing the waters." I have a million other stories like that one, but I was too dumb to see their implications at the time. She led me on with false promises and false displays of emotion so that I could satisfy a temporary need for her. That is what happened.  She never had any real feelings for me. She never was going to leave her husband. It was all a lie. My T actually understands why I'm so angry, something that I was never able to properly convey here. I decided to gamble my job for something else. That was a choice I consciously made. But I'm not angry that the gamble didn't pay off. I'm angry because there was never really a gamble to begin with. It was all a carefully constructed illusion. She misrepresented the thing that I was gambling my job for. That's why I'm angry.  That job was the best thing that ever happened to me, and I traded it for sex!  That is grim reality. It wasn't because I was finally able to connect with another human being in a way I didn't know I was capable of. It wasn't because an amazing and beautiful woman fell in love with someone like me. It wasn't any of those things I believed at the time. The truth is I traded my job for sex! How can I be ok with that truth?

My T is always quick to point out that I played a big part in it too, but it doesn't do much to lessen the hate that I feel. I behaved badly and it cost me my job. Its a fact. She played with my feelings. That's also a fact. Those two facts aren't mutually exclusive. The truth of one doesn't negate the other. I fail to see how acknowledging one fact is supposed to lessen the anger I feel over the other one. No one deserves to be played with in that way. No one. How can I not be angry?

My T says that this recent shift for me is progress. I hope she's right. She also understands my need to contact the husband and tell him the full truth, another thing I could never seem to communicate here. She doesn't discourage me from doing so, only warns me to think seriously about the consequences first. I've spent a long time wondering why therapy wasn't helping me to alleviate that erg to remove her mask. I'm beginning to think that my desire to contact the husband was never a problem that needed therapy. My real problem is that I haven't done so. I've been using therapy for the wrong reasons. I've been using it as a means to lead me out of a tough dilemma. I can see good reasons to not involve myself with those people further. My T calls it "throwing good money after bad." But if I can't speak up after everything that happened, there has to be something seriously wrong with me. Its a tough call. I was hoping that therapy could point me to the right answer, as if this were a math problem. But there is no right answer, only a tough decision. I know all the cold hard facts, and I know the risks. There's nothing left for me to "figure out." The only thing left is the decision, and still I'm stuck on what to do.

On an unrelated note, I learned that I may be autistic! I evidently have some mild traits. My T isn't qualified to make that diagnosis herself, but she suggested that I see some colleagues of hers who are. Right now my mind is still spinning from everything that my ex put me through (it still feels like those events just happened) to even think about that, but I told my T that I may pursue that in the future. She thinks it may go a long way toward explaining my difficulty understanding and navigating social situations that everyone else seems to take for granted.
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steelwork
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« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2017, 07:42:00 PM »

"But there is no right answer, only a tough decision."

That rings true to me. I think people have been trying to help you weigh the true costs as thoroughly as possible because the stakes for you are very high. 

I'm glad to hear that you feel more clarity.
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Sunfl0wer
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« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2017, 09:01:21 PM »

Welcome to Stage II: Anger. 

Excerpt
Lesson 1: Healing, the big picture 

Where are you going?  This is the road map.  Please refer back to it often.  It's important to see healing as a process and to constantly be marking your progress.  You need to know where you are going and the pathway there if you are ever going to reach healing.  Without this, many just get stuck in a stage without realizing that it is a stage.



How grief passes through us: The Five Stages of Grieving

Denial- This is when we and our partner are on different page about our commitments to the relationship. This stage is filled with disbelief and denial.  Often in this stage we are engaged in relationship struggles and are expecting our partner to respond in the way that someone in a relationship would respond. However, they are in a very different, less caring place.  We are confused, hurt, put off by their behavior.

Anger- Anger often the reaction to being hurt and/or fearful, and helpless to do anything about it. The greater the loss, the greater the reaction. Anger is a very complex part of grieving - many of us stumble in this stage with either unhealthy anger (misdirected, trapping) or no anger (no release).  We need to determine why we're angry and focus our feeling on the true issues - if not, anger can imprison us.

Bargaining- Bargaining is that stage of the break-up when you’re trying to make deals and compromises. It’s when you start talking about how an open relationship might be a possibility or a long-distance thing could work. It’s when you say to your partner, “if you just did this then I could do that and it would work”. It’s when you say to yourself that you’ll do x, y, z to be a better spouse so that the relationship doesn’t have to end.

Depression- After all of the denial and the anger and the bargaining have been done and we realize that things really are starting to end and we become depressed. We fell helpless and powerless and overwhelmed with sadness about the loss that we are experiencing.  This acknowledgment often starts the serious process of us trying to understand what happened.

Acceptance- Acceptance is a final stage when we have finally sorting out what happened, accepted it and are more interested in moving forward than looking back. Acceptance can take a lot of time and a lot of processing. It involves understanding the situation, understand our role / understand their role, understanding what can be learned, and letting go / moving forward. 

Note: Each person mourns a loss differently.  You may not experience these stages in one fluid order. You may go through some of the stages more than once. Sometimes during the bargaining stages we recycle the relationship. Or an event will trigger us to experience one of these stages again - like hearing your ex-partner is to remarry.
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Sunfl0wer
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« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2017, 09:06:23 PM »

Excerpt
On an unrelated note, I learned that I may be autistic! I evidently have some mild traits. My T isn't qualified to make that diagnosis herself, but she suggested that I see some colleagues of hers who are. Right now my mind is still spinning from everything that my ex put me through (it still feels like those events just happened) to even think about that, but I told my T that I may pursue that in the future. She thinks it may go a long way toward explaining my difficulty understanding and navigating social situations that everyone else seems to take for granted.
I know a bunch of folks with ASD.  This makes a lot of sense to, persons with ASD have trouble with theory of mind, perspective taking, could explain why you struggled stuck for quite a bit there... .redoing the same thought process, perseverating in a way of rigid thinking. Not something that I can discern via text, but would explain a bit for me, imo.  Can now see why your struggle would be way harder to sort out... .needing to be patient with yourself.
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« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2017, 09:09:27 PM »

Thought pasting other bit may be more helpful than previous one.
Excerpt
Abandonment Cycle The Five Stages

If your relationship partner left you or if you left because you felt you had no choice, you will likely pass through an abandonment cycle.

Shattering - Your relationship is breaking apart. Your hopes and dreams are Shattered. You are devastated, bewildered. You succumb to despair and panic. You feel hopeless and have Suicidal feelings. You feel Symbiotically attached to your lost love, mortally wounded, as if you’ll die without them. You are in Severe pain, Shock, Sorrow. You’ve been Severed from your primary attachment. You’re cut off from your emotional life-line.

Withdrawl – painful Withdrawal from your lost love. The more time goes on, the more all of the needs your partner was meeting begin to impinge into your every Waking moment. You are in Writhing pain from being torn apart. You yearn, ache, and Wait for them to return. Love-withdrawal is just like Heroin Withdrawal – - each involves the body’s opiate system and the same physical symptoms of intense craving. During Withdrawal, you are feeling the Wrenching pain of love-loss and separation – - the Wasting, Weight loss, Wakefulness, Wishful thinking, and Waiting for them to return. You crave a love-fix to put you out of the WITHDRAWAL symptoms.

Internalizing – you Internalize the rejection and cause Injury to your self esteem. This is the most critical stage of the cycle when your wound becomes susceptible to Infection and can create permanent scarring. You are Isolated, riddled with Insecurity, self- Indictment and self-doubt. You are preoccupied with ‘If only regrets’ – - If only you had been more attentive, more sensitive, less demanding, etc. You beat yourself up with regrets over the relationship and Idealize your abandoner at the expense of your own self Image.

Anger – the turning point in the grief process when you begin to fight back. You attempt to Reverse the Rejection by Refusing to accept all of the blame for the failed relationship, and feel surges of Rage against your abandoner. You Rail against the pain and isolation you’ve been in. Agitated depression and spurts of anger displaced on your friends and family are common during this turbulent time, as are Revenge and Retaliation fantasies toward your abandoner.

Lifting – your anger helped to externalize your pain. Gradually, as your energy spurts outward, it Lifts you back into Life. You begin to Let go. Life distracts you and gradually Lifts you out the grief cycle. You feel the emergence of strength, wiser for the painful Lessons you’ve Learned. And if you’re engaged in the process of recovery, you get ready to Love again.



How we heal ourselves: The Five Stages of Detachment

Acknowledgment- we begin by acknowledging and working with our feelings. read more

Self-Inquiry - we then probe the feelings - it's important to find a way to explore your feelings that allows you both to be present with them and to stand a little aside from them. read more

Processing - become aware of what has been useful in the journey you've just taken, regardless of how it all turned out.  read more

Creative Action - start something new with real enthusiasm for the doing of it, rather than out of the need to prove something. read more

Freedom - the stage when thinking about your loss (or the thing you desire) doesn't interfere with your normal feelings of well-being. read more

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How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself.~Anais Nin
Nuitari
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« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2017, 12:04:37 PM »

Just wanted to give an update on what's been going on with me. I've actually learned a lot about myself and gained a lot of clarity sense last posting in this thread, and it has spun everything on its head. I have Asperger's! It is a mild form of autism. People with Asperger's have trouble picking up on social cues.  They lack the ability to "read" body language and facial expressions.  Verbal communication is therefore often the only means they have of relating to others.  You can also probably imagine that its difficult for one with Asperger's to express feelings or show emotions.  My T has been encouraging me to read up and learn what I can outside of our sessions, and I'm shell shocked at how much of myself I see in what I'm reading. My inability to relate to others and successfully express myself has made relationships nearly impossible, even platonic ones. So I focused on my career, until she came along and gave me false hope. When my ex first asked to see my apartment, I had no idea that meant sex. I took her literally, that she just wanted to see my apartment. That is how lost I am. I don't know what someone is thinking or feeling unless they explicitly tell me. Likewise, when I want someone to know what I'm thinking/feeling, I tell them. I don't show them, just tell them, and I'm learning that telling is only a small part of how people communicate in relationships. How to "show" is completely foreign to me. I know that my ex is extremely selfish, likely because of a disorder, but I can't help but think that my own shortcomings and failure to properly communicate my feelings went a long way toward making her lose respect for me. It must have difficult for her to take my feelings seriously when she could not see them.  She always seemed very aware that her husband had feelings, that her actions hurt him, but not so with me, and I'm the one who lost everything.

I'm seeing now that this isn't about my job, but a need to communicate. I've never felt that need more than I do now. I feel like a mime in a box, and no one can hear me. That's frustrating when I've endured so much. I keep asking myself what I could have done differently to better communicate with her, and to him as well. I don't know what his motivations were for calling the school, but they appeared to stem from a belief that I was relentlessly "pursuing" her. But that isn't reality. He called the school during a time when I was trying to step away. He wrote his own script of what was happening, assumed my motivations for me, and I never spoke out against it. I didn't even try, and I need to. I've done many wrong things, and I don't ask for his forgiveness. He has every right to be angry at me. I can even admit that I deserved to lose my job. But all of that is beside the point. I just want him to understand. It wasn't just my poor decisions that led to my life falling apart, but my inability to effectively communicate as well. I don't know how to fix that. Even though the damage is already done, its important to me that I still try.
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