My wife of 29 years - I noticed something interesting in my BPD wife's behavior

[gadget]

So ...  She came over Friday morning before work 5am to help with my special needs son bath, teeth, and shaving.  She actually told me Happy Birthday (it was my birthday).  And I didn't hear from her all the rest of Friday, not at all on Saturday.

Sunday morning I was being nice and texted her "Morning.  Hows it going?"  And from there had a fairly decent, but short text conversation.  She even asked "What are you doing today?", which she never does usually anymore.  Today is 10 weeks gone.

Here is what I think/my theory.  May mean nothing at all.  Right now 3 of our grown kids don't reach out to her because she left.  And I told her that is on her.  She is sad because of this.  Her greatest fear is her kids will abandon her.  Which it seems to be heading that way.

She texted my daughter and said you don't text me anymore.  My daughter said I'm busy.  My daughter and wife work at the same place.  My daughter works 3rd and sometimes stops by my wife's office to say hi before she heads home to sleep.  She told my wife she wasn't stopping tomorrow because she had to go to the store.

It seems to me now, that when I start a conversation with my wife, because our kids won't initiate conversations with her, she seems more chatty with me.  Hmmmmm.

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[Radcliff]

What do you think of her increased chattiness?  Where would you like things to head from here?

RC

[gadget]

Hi Radcliff,

Nice to meet you and thanks for the reply!

I like the increased chattiness.  It feels more like normal.  Where I’d like it to go from here?  I want her back home.  I want my life with her back.  Or back close to what it was.  I have a very hard time with all this because it defies all logic.  We were allegedly a great couple for almost 30 years, and she says she will always love me, it’s not me it’s her, I’m a great guy & husband, then bam she’s gone and I’m the one she shuns and avoids the most.

I know BPD is all about her and her healing.  She goes to therapy regularly as do I to cope. I haven’t mentioned reading SWOE and how much I see my wife in that book to the therapist.  Not sure if that would help or hurt?

[Red5]

Morning gadget,

She goes to therapy regularly as do I to cope. I haven’t mentioned reading SWOE and how much I see my wife in that book to the therapist.  Not sure if that would help or hurt?

Do you and your wife see the same therapist?

Red5

[isilme]

I think the chattiness is a push/pull cycle coming around.  She pushed everyone away, and now regrets being alone (not necessarily the pushing) and is trying to pull everyone back.  The kids are enacting boundaries (good), and she is having to learn to adapt (good).  I am not sure I like that talking to you is Hobson's choice, but we have to start somewhere.

[gadget]

Hi Red5 and isilme!

Red5 - Yes we see the same therapist.  I hear their best at that place.  I think that is a tremendous benefit for our situation that we see the same person.  My wife sees her next on 8/19 and I see her the next day on 8/20.  So she hears both sides of our stories.  I work mostly on my side and coping.  but I do share all significant text interactions between me and the wife with our therapist.  Still not sure if I'll mention the SWOE book to the therapist yet.  I'm hoping she'd mention it herself based on all I'm telling her.

isilme - I'm just starting to get familiar with all the terms in the BPD world.  But the push/pull you mentioned seems spot on!  I'll have to read up more on that.  I guess I'll take Hobson's choice over nothing at all   This all is like I'm in superman's bizzaro world or the upside down from Stranger Things.  Nothing makes sense and I'm now playing the most difficult game of chess I have ever played.  But, being here is helping.  I already used mirroring as mentioned by lotusblossom1.  Now I know how to watch for push/pull.  All these tools and support and kind words from you all helps me tremendously.  I really appreciate it.

[Radcliff]

When folks are interested in reuniting with a pwBPD, we typically recommend that they have a slightly warmer than neutral approach to the person.  Warm enough that they don't feel rejected, but laid back enough that they don't feel pursued.  If we apply too much energy, they may get scared and back away.

If you trust the therapist, you might try a tentative test -- mention that you've been reading SWOE, and it seems to describe your experience with your spouse.  Keep the focus on yourself; say that you're trying to make sense of things, and it seems like understanding what's going on with her might give you more understanding and help you work on the relationship from your end in a way that's most effective with her.  Make sure not to make it seem like you want her to get fixed, or want to diagnose her.  See how the therapist responds, and decide whether to continue or back off.  Some therapists understand personality disorders and some do not.

RC

[gadget]

Thanks Radcliff!

That is about how I treat our interactions.  I usually don't text her unless she texts first.  Though I do send one text usually after work saying "I hope your day went well for you".  I have therapy on next Tuesday and she always offers to come and watch our son so I can go, even if it isn't her normal days to visit (Wed, Fri, Sun).  This Tuesday I also have a crown being replaced at 3pm then therapy at 7pm.  She said she'd watch him the whole time.  It's hard to see she can be this nice, and nothing more.  I really miss my companion!  I do all the normal things, read, occupy my times, friends , family.  And that all helps to a degree.  How do all of you cope/replace that missing companion feeling?  We haven't said we should see others, not sure I want to, but she may already be doing that and would never tell me.

[Red5]

*I have therapy on next Tuesday and she always offers to come and watch our son so I can go, even if it isn't her normal days to visit (Wed, Fri, Sun). 

*This Tuesday I also have a crown being replaced at 3pm then therapy at 7pm.  She said she'd watch him the whole time. 

Good morning gadget,

I want to ask you a question, as you write above, your wife will come and watch your special needs Son when you have other engagements outside your normal routine.

My question is… does your wife ever come by, or else request time from you, just to see your Son, for no other reason than she just wants to see him?

As we have shared you and I, I too have a special needs Son, he is autistic, and will be thirty three next month, my wife is however his step mother, his biological mother basically abandoned us about thirteen years ago.

I am just curious, please don't take it the wrong way, but I am wondering if your wife ever just wants to see him, for no other reason other than she just wants to spend time with him, other than support of your daily schedule and helping you make it through your work day, in this current separation status.

I am understanding that she is his biological mother, and not his step mother?

Kind Regards, Red5

[gadget]

Hi Red5,

She is his biological mother.  And "allegedly" the reason she left due to Compassionate Caregiver Overload (per the Therapist).  I deal well with him over these 24 years, she did not.

She will come watch him for whatever I want to do for myself.  I went to the Origins Game Fair on Father's Day weekend with my oldest son for the whole weekend and she offered and watched him.  Also, when this started the therapist recommends any couple thinking of separating take a weekend away.  Each person by themself.  A whole weekend.  No phones.  No contact.  She did her weekend.  Still says I can do mine whenever I want.

She never comes by just to see him.  Only sees him on her "scheduled" visits. I can see and tell that she loves him dearly.  But she never comes over just to see him.  Always just to give me a break, see him while she is there taking care of him, maybe just do her bare minimum so she doesn't feel as guilty for leaving?

She has always offered to watch him or my grandson so me or my daughter can do do the things we want to.  Unless she has other plans.

[Radcliff]

It sounds like she is caring for him to the best of her abilities.  It's normal for you to have expectations and be disappointed that she's left or not spending as much time with him as before.  But he's lucky that you're there for him, and have been able to relate well to him over the years.  And he's also lucky to have the good that he has from her, to have two parents who are still cooperating and caring for him together.  What matters is that you're both reliably in his life, and that he get what he needs from your combined efforts.

Losing a companion is a hard thing to cope with.  By staying busy and keeping in touch with people, you're doing the right things.  If you're interested in saving the relationship, reflecting on it and on things you can control can be helpful, too.  Can you give us a specific example of trouble between the two of you?

RC

[gadget]

Radcliff,

That is a great way to look at it!  Thank you.

Troubles between us?  No real specific troubles.  We get along fine when I see her.  She has even called me hun and babe a few times.  Gives me a haircut when she sees I need it.  Gets his meds from the pharmacy.  Offers and stays extra days so I can attend therapy.

So... many things seem good.  She has been gone almost 3 months now and there is zero talk about us.  She had said before “you know I have no intention of coming back”, then later in that conversation said “I didn’t say never ever”.

She had said daily since her mom passed 1 year ago that she wasn’t happy.  But couldn’t / didn’t say why.  She started saying “I don’t know if I want to be married anymore”.  And “for 30 years, I’ve been a wife, mom,  cook, maid, but never myself”.  I had asked what did I do to deserve this?  She said nothing.

For sure I’d love us to get back together.  We both are continuing therapy.  I’m using the tips I have learned here and in SWOE.  It sounds like I’m doing all the right things.  Just hard waiting in the dark when your wife doesn’t tell you anything about anything except how her work day went.  Hard to understand how it seems she can turn off what we were to each other for 30 years just like a light switch.

I’m sure it is BPD and not specifically her being this way.

[Radcliff]

Struggling to find a sense of identity is one of the defining traits of BPD.  Not everyone has all the defining traits, but perhaps this one is present for your wife.  Struggling with identity is also a common thing in middle age -- we give so much to our roles as spouse, parent, and worker that we may lose touch with who we are.  Another, related, difficulty for a pwBPD is differentiating themselves from others.  In a relationship with you, the borders between her and you may be blurred.  Perhaps she feels this loss of self and feels a need for some distance from you to be able to figure herself out.

Setting aside the issue of BPD for the moment, and thinking of this as maybe partly a normally middle age thing, can you think of parts of her she may have lost over the years as she was a wife and mother?  You can't solve the problem for her, but can you think of ways you can be a supportive partner and show that she can be with you and still be her own person?

RC

[gadget]

Hi Radcliff,

I'm sure some of it is Middle Age (she's 49), now a 1st time Grandma, some BPD, some Compassionate Caregiver Overload.  She had said I've been a mom, wife, maid, cook, but never myself.  But never said what that means/is for her.  We had a great life together.  She went on vacations with her Best Friends whenever she wanted.  I never tried to stop her from doing anything.  We have a nice house, great kids, nice cars.  She didn't want for anything.

The only thing she has never had is the experience of being on her own.  We were married when she was 19.  So I guess she is living that now.  I support her as best I can.  But we don't talk much.  Mostly about when she will be over to help with my special needs son and other co-parenting issues.

I did mention to our Therapist last night (I went alone) that I read SWOE and see much of my wife in that book.  She nodded and we started talking about co-dependency.  I know I have some issues there.  I'm sure my wife does too.

[Radcliff]

It sounds like you and your wife have a supportive therapist.  That's a huge asset.  What are some of the issues that you are thinking you may be bringing to the relationship with your wife?

RC

[gadget]

She says I was suffocating her.  Smothering her.  Truth be told.  I was only hanging out in the livingroom with her.  Waiting for her to stop texting & facebook 24/7.  So that we could do something/anything together.  Watch our TV shows, have dinner together.  Just spend time.  But somehow, towards the end before she left.  She took it as I was suffocating her, yet she was the one ignoring me, and ignoring spending time with me.  I was just waiting in the wings for my time with her.

The other issue, allegedly the whole reason she left due to Compassionate Caregiver Overload is because I do so well with my special needs son and she does not.  She has told me before I shouldn't be nice to her.  She doesn't deserve it.  She said I'm a saint and she is not.  So it hurts and it is hard.  Because I do so well with him I have to lose her from my life?  It would seem that normally a wife would be happy that I can handle him so that is one less thing she has to worry about.

[Radcliff]

First, wow, I'm sorry to hear that you were waiting in the wings for your wife of decades to interact with you while she texted and Facebooked.  I felt a fair bit of this, too.  I was sorry for the day that I bought my wife a laptop, as she seemed to always have her nose in it and I burned countless hours orbiting nearby hoping that we might have a connection.

None of this is fair.  And it is hard, really hard.

Do you think your wife could feel how desperately you wanted to connect with her?  Might she have felt pressured by this, even if your expectations might have been reasonable?

RC

[gadget]

It was several years for sure.  Other than that the rest of our lives we normal.  Though our intimacy had changed from every 8 weeks to daily sometimes even more than daily.  She was a different woman in this aspect now.  A complete 180.  So I thought that was positive yet strange.  So how can that aspect be SO good yet me wanting some quality time in the evening with her to watch TV be so bad/suffocating?

Very not fair and super hard for sure.  I think she knew I wanted to spend time with her.  I’m just not sure when she started perceiving that it was suffocating.  And I didn’t want much time.  Just for her to put her phone down and watch a movie with me uninterrupted.  Not too much to ask.

[Radcliff]

It sounds like things were stable for years, and then several things changed in a relatively short period of time.  Can you describe the changes in more detail?  Over what time period did they happen?  Can you think of things that might have triggered the changes?

RC

[gadget]

I believe the changes started one year ago when my wife's mother passed away.  She would say daily "I'm not happy", but she couldn't put her finger on it or wouldn't say.  She would say "I don't know who I am.  For 30 years I've been a wife, a maid, a mother, a cook, but never myself".

Also, since about 6 months ago.  Our intimacy had ramped up from once every 6-8 weeks to daily or multiple times daily.  Crazy stuff.  Rough stuff.  She even talked about bringing in other couples.

Before all this on March 7th, 2019, she went to bed before me as she usually did.  When I came to bed I saw her phone light up and I glanced at it.  I contact she named "OG" had sent a message and said "I can't stop thinking about what a great kisser you are".  Of course I lost it.  Woke her up, and demanded an explanation.  This had happened after her class reunion at the bar.  She had a thing for a guy she knew in Highschool and they were talking and "it just happened.  But she kissed him back!  Why?  And still texted him after the fact!  She said sorry a million times to me and it never should have happened.  The next morning I made her text him.  Say that I know.  This is over.  Then made her block his #.  Maybe this is why she felt I was hovering/suffocating when she was on her phone all the time?  I was ALWAYS thinking she was texting him.  Her normal 1 minute bathroom breaks turned into 20 minute bathroom breaks with her phone every time.  How am I not supposed to be paranoid about that?  She said she got caught up in the nostalgia that night and it happened.  It killed me that she partook in the kiss.  Forgot about our 30 year marriage for that one moment.

I'm not sure if that was because after her mother passed, I'm sure she has Midlife Crisis symptoms.  For sure BPD symptoms.  And the therapist has been saying Compassionate Caregiver Overload.

Tomorrow is our 30th wedding anniversary and 3 months that she has been gone. I really want to tell her Happy Anniversary, I love you, I miss you.  But I know that would fall on deaf ears and get me zero response.  Not sure she will even say anything at all tomorrow, though she did wish my a happy birthday the other day.  I guess we shall see.  This all is very sad and I want none of it.  I don't deserve this.  I know she isn't in her right mindset, but I gave her everything.  Four wonderful kids.  A great life where she never wanted for anything.  A nice house, new car.  How can she not see/recognize all this?  How can what's going on in her mind outweigh staying at home with us, and our 5 month old grandson that she could see every single day?

[Baglady]

Hi Gadget  

Hugs to you.  I've been there.  My exBPDh of 21 years (27 year relationship) blindsided me out of nowhere with a BPD psychotic rage fest of 3 weeks before an act of domestic violence toward me (never a feature of our relationship) prior to walking (stomping) out of our marriage.  While he always demonstrated behaviors that were a little off throughout our marriage they were minor enough that I simply attributed them to him having ADHD.  I've searched high and low for triggers but I honestly think that just taking a weekend away from him might have done the trick.  I went away for a "me" weekend (not for the first time at all in our marriage) and we exchanged loving normal texts throughout the weekend.  For some reason, I had the presence of mind to archive these texts and I just randomly reviewed them last week.  They couldn't have been more mundane or typical texts that we exchanged.   No wonder I was absolutely blindsided when I walked the door to an absolutely psychotic, raging, blaming lunatic.  16 months out and I STILL think I'm picking my jaw up off the floor from the whole experience  
My ex was functional for most of our marriage, gainfully employed, a good marriage partner (although admittedly self-absorbed at times).  He demonstrated social emotional immaturity but his goodness offset most of his deficits in my book.  His mood swings definitely increased during the last four years of our marriage but I attributed these to mid-life crisis issues.  In short, a mental health disorder was never, ever on my radar and I would have laughed off even the suggestion of it.
Now - he's on a major downward spiral in his life, unemployable, broke, huge credit card debit (refused to even have a credit card during most of our marriage), playing two hapless women off each other in "relationships", he's into all sorts of pervy, weird, sexual healing therapies, addicted to multiple substances and just about keeping it together enough to be able to bro-parent my teen.  Oh yeah - the hypersexuality out of no-where was a sudden bizarre feature that emerged also.
I gotta think that the BPD was always there, lurking but something (hormones, drug-use, mid-life crisis?) majorly triggered a complete and utter mental break in my ex.
BPD is something else...and we non's are just left picking up the pieces...
Warmly,
B

[gadget]

Thanks for the hugs Baglady!  I take all of them I can get.  They really do help.

I'm sorry for your situation too.  So many stories here are so similar.  All of us non BPD have to deal with all this plus normal daily life.  And some even more.  As I had said before, I have a special needs child and allegedly the reason she abandoned us all.  He has had seizures since 3 months old and he is 24 now.  He doesn't talk, doesn't walk, is wheelchair bound and tub-fed (but can eat by mouth).  I love him more than I can ever put into words.  He is my everything, and I'd give up everything I have just to be in his life and take care of him.  I know Red5 has a similar situation.

So hard for me to understand that is the base cause of my wife leaving.  She still comes over 3 times a week to get him off the bus, feed him, give meds, take him potty, and to help with his baths.  I can see how much she loves him.  I handle him well.  Youd think she'd take comfort in that I have him well taken care of vs her cutting and running.

For sure if I had to choose, it would be him over her.  She was my best friend, my everything for 30 years.  I can't understand how she can turn all that off like  lightswitch?  And say it's not you, it's me.  You are a great dad and husband.  Then were did her feelings for me go?

I'm SO glad I have you all here with me.  And I'm very sorry for all of you that suffers through this too.  But this forum has been a lifesaver for me.  Friends and family help too.  My other 3 kids are all grown (21,26,29) and want nothing to do with my wife.  She just abandoned us all and told no one nothing.  We both still go to therapy twice a month.  Same therapist at different times.  No couples therapy.  I did mention to the Therapist I read Stop Walking on Eggshells and saw my wife in almost every page.

Thanks for the kind words and support.  I appreciate it so much.

[gadget]

It's hard to not take personally what a BPD spouse says or does to you.  I wish this all could be easier.  Or a magic pill be found.  I want my wife back.  I miss my companion.  I don't want to start all over again.  She was the one.

Gadget

[Baglady]

I truly can relate Gadget.  I've just had to come to the realization that I'm grieving the "death" of someone who is very much alive.  Deep down, I honestly see myself more as a widow than a divorcee.  I'm going through the same grief as if my ex had suddenly died in a car accident or had a heart attack or something.  The man and life I knew completely disappeared in the blink of an eye.  It's like my spouse died but society doesn't recognize the depth of my grief and there is a dearth of true understanding, comfort, casseroles and flowers coming my way despite the fact that I have wonderful friends and family - they just can't wrap their head around it all.  Hell, 16 months out and I can still barely understand it!
I often reflect that it would have been so much easier if he had simply died than put me through an absolutely soul destroying devaluation and discard like I was a worthless piece of garbage after 27 years of love, companionship and loyalty.  It's hard for us long-timers - we've built our entire lives and identity around these very covertly mentally ill partners.  BPD does so much more of a number on our psyches the longer the relationship.
One foot in front of the other, time is healing things but oh so slowly.  I get so impatient and tired of the struggle at times but I always get a boost on this site from fellow sojourners on the same hard road.
We must prevail or else the dark side wins...
Warmly,
B

[Radcliff]

Hang in there.  I would tell her that you love her and miss her and are thinking of her on your anniversary.  Yes, it would be disappointing if she doesn't respond, but it's true.  Do it to say your truth.  Do it because it may do her some good to hear it.  Given with kindness and no expectation or demand, your sentiment seems like a good one to share.

RC

[gadget]

Baglady - I’ve thought that too before.  Would be SO much easier if she had passed away.  It is like she did, but I still see her a few times a week.  But it’s not really her.

RC -  I texted her this morning.  I said “Thinking of you on our 30th Anniversary.  Love you.  Miss you.”.  It felt good to say my truth!  I actually got a response.  She said “I know today will be rough and I’m sorry if it is”.

I really want to say more.  How can she not feel for us as a couple and 30 years together?  I really want to tell her how rough today will be for me.  I haven’t replied back yet.  Not sure I will.

No love you, miss you back from her.  It’s so hard.

[gadget]

Update:

RC - I didn't answer her text this morning when she answered my text and said "I know today will be rough and I'm sorry if it is"

She sent me another text "Hope you're having a good day" around noon.

Things like that make me think she still cares somewhat.  Not enough to change our situation.  But it is more communication than I normally get from her.

Gadget

[Red5]

She sent me another text "Hope you're having a good day" around noon.

Things like that make me think she still cares somewhat.  Not enough to change our situation.  But it is more communication than I normally get from her.

My wife does the same thing… a little "hope"… then I get plowed under with blame and shame : (

I have decided, as long as I'm not blocked, that I will text her, and tell her I love her, miss her...even if she throws railroad spikes back my way… I was told once… "she has moved out, and she is always mad anyways… what do you have to lose"… "he honest with yourself, and her, tell her how you feel".

We traded a few texts last night, somewhat friendly at first… she told me "Downton Abbey is coming on, we can chit chat later, good night"… I texted back, "ok, have a good night, talk again soon, love Red5"…

Then she came right back with fury… outa nowhere, BOOM… a bucket of hot railroad spikes!

I didn't take the bait, I used SET, and I validated her… she continued with the red hot railroad spikes… but finally relented when I did not take her bait… and I didn't reply to her last text either.

I dunno,

Sometimes… late at night, I'm thankful for peace and quiet in the house… and my Son doesn't have to worry about her "coming after him".

… wow ; (

Hang in there gadget, … I think you should go right on telling her that you love her!… do it!

I used to be afraid that I would be pushing her away, if I told her I loved her in a text, on the phone, or on her front porch… what is that?… being afraid to tell your wife that you love her… humanity anyone… good grief, this is maddening…

Be honest with yourself, and her… I think this is crucial…

Red5

[gadget]

Thanks Red!

I will.  It felt really good to say my mind for once vs hiding all my feelings.  I'm not sure I will always say things like that.  But now I'm less afraid.  She is no longer here.  I will hang strong and read up and use all the tools available to me like SET, and to not JADE.  I also bought a book I heard mentioned in this forum called "High Conflict Couple - A Dialectical Behavior Therapy Guide to Finding Peace, Intimacy, and Validation.".  "It actually talks about DBT Therapy Methods.  Will see if I can get any nuggets of info out of there to help me in my interactions with my wife.

[Harri]

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